who voted Yes on funding fetal tissue research ?

[gotsnowgotslush]

H.R. 2507 Conference Report
Vote Number: 115 Vote Date: June 4, 1992, 03:39 PM

Mitch McConnell (R- KY )Charles Grassley (R-Iowa), and John McCain (R-Ariz)
said yes to federal funds to fetal research

Alabama: Heflin (D-AL), Yea Shelby (D-AL), Yea
Alaska: Murkowski (R-AK), Yea Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Arizona: DeConcini (D-AZ), Yea McCain (R-AZ), Yea
Arkansas: Bumpers (D-AR), Yea Pryor (D-AR), Yea
California: Cranston (D-CA), Yea Seymour (R-CA), Yea
Colorado: Brown (R-CO), Yea Wirth (D-CO), Yea
Connecticut: Dodd (D-CT), Yea Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Delaware: Biden (D-DE), Yea Roth (R-DE), Yea
Florida: Graham (D-FL), Yea Mack (R-FL), Yea
Georgia: Fowler (D-GA), Yea Nunn (D-GA), Yea
Hawaii: Akaka (D-HI), Yea Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Idaho: Craig (R-ID), Nay Symms (R-ID), Nay
Illinois: Dixon (D-IL), Yea Simon (D-IL), Yea
Indiana: Coats (R-IN), Nay Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Iowa: Grassley (R-IA), Yea Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Kansas: Dole (R-KS), Yea Kassebaum (R-KS), Yea
Kentucky: Ford (D-KY), Nay McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Louisiana: Breaux (D-LA), Yea Johnston (D-LA), Yea
Maine: Cohen (R-ME), Yea Mitchell (D-ME), Yea
Maryland: Mikulski (D-MD), Yea Sarbanes (D-MD), Yea
Massachusetts: Kennedy (D-MA), Yea Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Michigan: Levin (D-MI), Yea Riegle (D-MI), Yea
Minnesota: Durenberger (R-MN), Not Voting Wellstone (D-MN), Yea
Mississippi: Cochran (R-MS), Yea Lott (R-MS), Yea
Missouri: Bond (R-MO), Nay Danforth (R-MO), Yea
Montana: Baucus (D-MT), Yea Burns (R-MT), Nay
Nebraska: Exon (D-NE), Yea Kerrey (D-NE), Yea
Nevada: Bryan (D-NV), Yea Reid (D-NV), Yea
New Hampshire: Rudman (R-NH), Yea Smith (R-NH), Nay
New Jersey: Bradley (D-NJ), Yea Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
New Mexico: Bingaman (D-NM), Not Voting Domenici (R-NM), Yea
New York: D'Amato (R-NY), Nay Moynihan (D-NY), Yea
North Carolina: Helms (R-NC), Not Voting Sanford (D-NC), Yea
North Dakota: Burdick, Quentin S (D-ND), Yea Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Ohio: Glenn (D-OH), Yea Metzenbaum (D-OH), Yea
Oklahoma: Boren (D-OK), Yea Nickles (R-OK), Nay
Oregon: Hatfield (R-OR), Yea Packwood (R-OR), Yea
Pennsylvania: Specter (R-PA), Yea Wofford (D-PA), Yea
Rhode Island: Chafee (R-RI), Yea Pell (D-RI), Yea
South Carolina: Hollings (D-SC), Yea Thurmond (R-SC), Yea
South Dakota: Daschle (D-SD), Yea Pressler (R-SD), Nay
Tennessee: Gore (D-TN), Yea Sasser (D-TN), Yea
Texas: Bentsen (D-TX), Yea Gramm (R-TX), Nay
Utah: Garn (R-UT), Yea Hatch (R-UT), Nay
Vermont: Jeffords (R-VT), Yea Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Virginia: Robb (D-VA), Yea Warner (R-VA), Yea
Washington: Adams (D-WA), Yea Gorton (R-WA), Yea
West Virginia: Byrd (D-WV), Yea Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Wisconsin: Kasten (R-WI), Yea Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Wyoming: Simpson (R-WY), Yea Wallop (R-WY), Yea

Who said no ?

Bond (R-MO)
Burns (R-MT)
Coats (R-IN)
Craig (R-ID)
D'Amato (R-NY)
Ford (D-KY)
Gramm (R-TX)
Hatch (R-UT)
Nickles (R-OK)
Pressler (R-SD)
Smith (R-NH)
Symms (R-ID)

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...fm?congress=102&session=2&vote=00115#position

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...nned-parenthood-funding-is-the-latest-of-many

 

[1sickbastard]

H.R. 2507 Conference Report
Vote Number: 115 Vote Date: June 4, 1992, 03:39 PM

I feel certain there was some point in posting the Senate vote on a bill from 23 years ago.

 

[Aglaopheme]

For the lunatics screaming over Planned Parenthood's legal practice of donating fetal tissue.

Thanks for posting this.

 

[Boxlicker101]

For the lunatics screaming over Planned Parenthood's legal practice of donating fetal tissue.

Thanks for posting this.

I believe the girl or woman who had the AB is the one doing the donating, through Planned Parenthood, who then sends it to research labs and charges for the shipping and handling.

To me, this makes eminent good sense. The aborted tissue is otherwise buried or burned, and I think it's much better for everybody to derive some benefit, with nobody being harmed. The donated tissue may some day lead to a cure for cancer or other illnesses or may help in alleviating birth defects.

I see little differences between using fetal tissue for research and donating organs to save lives.

 

[sr71plt]

I feel certain there was some point in posting the Senate vote on a bill from 23 years ago.

Thanks for pointing this out. I was doing a headscratch on Warner of Virginia being tagged as a Republican. The current Va. Senator Warner is a Democrat--but back then the Warner name on a Republican senator.

 

[Publius1990]

For the lunatics screaming over Planned Parenthood's legal practice of donating fetal tissue.

Thanks for posting this.

So if planned parenthood is "donating" fetal tissue why are they caught on film talking about prices. Funny, when I donate something price does to come up.

 

[Boxlicker101]

So if planned parenthood is "donating" fetal tissue why are they caught on film talking about prices. Funny, when I donate something price does to come up.

Because, although the tissue is free for legit labs, there is some expense involved in packing and shipping. It is extremely perishable, and must be kept as fresh as possible.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wi...chers-fetal-tissue-remains-essential-33004226

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/h...r-research-is-traded-in-a-gray-zone.html?_r=0

 

[phrodeau]

So if planned parenthood is "donating" fetal tissue why are they caught on film talking about prices. Funny, when I donate something price does to come up.

Get your head on straight.

The CMP scammers represented themselves as fetal tissue buyers. They brought up the matter of prices in the unedited video first.

And, there was also this exchange to be found in the transcript:

Buyer: So how many affiliates would you say total, that are actually working with a fetal tissue procurement organization right now?

PP: To my knowledge, right now, I only know the California affiliates. When you mentioned Gulf Coast, I didn’t even know that, so I don’t believe it’s—I don’t know what it is they’re doing, but the Northern California affiliates, and the Southern California affiliates-

Buyer: Because it seemed like kind of a trade off to me, whether to try to focus on affiliates who have experience with doing this, either currently or in the past.

PP: Yea.

Buyer: But then, if it’s somebody who is already involved, then it becomes an issue of competition. Whereas if it’s someone who’s never done this before, maybe they’re interested but how long it’s going to take to get started up.

PP: Yea, you know, I almost feel like I have to say, California is almost done in this regard.

Buyer: Saturated?

PP: And it is, the reason that it’s saturated too is, Normally, let’s say an affiliate, for example, was looking for a lab to work with, to do their pap-smears or their STD tests. They’re going to look for someone who gives the best service for the lowest price. This is a little bit different, because they want to do this, but they want to do it in a way that’s not going to impact them, and it’s much much less about money. You could call them up and say, “I’ll pay you double the money,” and they’re almost more inclined to say no, because it’s going to look bad.

Buyer: Right.

PP: To them, this is not a service they should be making money from, it’s something they should be able to offer this to their patients, in a way that doesn’t impact them.

Buyer: Offsetting their costs.

PP: Right. No one’s going to see this as a money making thing. The other reason affiliates think this is a good thing is, it’s less tissue that they need to worry about, it’s taken care of. They have to do something with that tissue, it’s hard to find somebody that wants to do something with that tissue, so the fact that there’s somebody that’s looking for that tissue is

Buyer: And that was a point we were looking into, what if, just taking that from them.

PP: That is such a huge service to them, and I just have to say--time this came up on a national level, is there are issues with disposal of fetal tissue. Probably, the biggest company in the world that does this, is Stericycle. Some anti-choice groups got the names of the board of directors forthose companies, and started coming to their houses, making them feel uncomfortable, stop picking up tissue. At the houses of the directors, of a waste management company basically, that just handles biological waste. And, I think that’s what’s started the conversations with affiliates because they’re like: “What am I supposed to do with this tissue?”

Buyer: We went to a session on that.

PP: Yea, there was a session on that at NAF, because it is a serious issue. That’s a service that affiliates need, so I think some affiliates are looking at it as a way- it’s not obviously going to account for everything, not everyone is eligible, not everyone is going to donate, you can’t take everything, but that has raised an issue so, I don’t know if that is ridiculously far-fetched, we’ll handle all of you tissue.

Buyer: Matt Reeves had actually suggested that to us.

PP: Even if you could find a way to do that, can I just tell you? Even if there were people who weren’t donating, you’d have huge business just for taking the tissue. People would pay you. They would just say, “Take my tissue!” Then, you could only send off what you wanted to send off, but you would still have to consent the patients though. It’s just something to keep in the back of your mind.

Not only does Planned Parenthood make it perfectly clear that nobody wants to profit from fetal tissue donation, they also suggest that facilities will pay to dispose of fetal tissue - the complete opposite of selling it.

 

[Publius1990]

Get your head on straight.

The CMP scammers represented themselves as fetal tissue buyers. They brought up the matter of prices in the unedited video first.

And, there was also this exchange to be found in the transcript:
Not only does Planned Parenthood make it perfectly clear that nobody wants to profit from fetal tissue donation, they also suggest that facilities will pay to dispose of fetal tissue - the complete opposite of selling it.

My heads on straight. The portion you clipped is exactly what those that accused CMP of doing. Taking portions of the entire story. It All has to be taken as a WHOLE. In its entirety. The portion you clipped is fine but what about the doctor saying "I want a Ferrari." Ummm...talking about shipping costs?

What about the clips where it appears procedures being altered (not too crunchy) to get intact fetal parts. This isn't just about the allegations that someone may be breaking the law and selling fetal parts. It's about medical ethics.

I am pro-choice, reluctantly, because outlawing it is not going to solve the problem and would be counter to women's health. However, I am not so clouded on the issue that I can't be outraged at what I am seeing - as a whole. You cannot explain away what we have seen - admittedly the most damning portions selected by CMP by other selected portions. Time will tell and hopefully all the truth will come out.

This firmly straight head believes we have become too desensitized to abortion.

 

[Publius1990]

Because, although the tissue is free for legit labs, there is some expense involved in packing and shipping. It is extremely perishable, and must be kept as fresh as possible.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wi...chers-fetal-tissue-remains-essential-33004226

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/h...r-research-is-traded-in-a-gray-zone.html?_r=0

Well then have a standard shipping price list. Why the wining and dining over lunch to discuss shipping costs.

Oh, thanks for enlightening me that fetal parts are extremely perishable. You must be smart.

 

[phrodeau]

My heads on straight. The portion you clipped is exactly what those that accused CMP of doing. Taking portions of the entire story. It All has to be taken as a WHOLE. In its entirety. The portion you clipped is fine but what about the doctor saying "I want a Ferrari." Ummm...talking about shipping costs?

What about the clips where it appears procedures being altered (not too crunchy) to get intact fetal parts. This isn't just about the allegations that someone may be breaking the law and selling fetal parts. It's about medical ethics.

I am pro-choice, reluctantly, because outlawing it is not going to solve the problem and would be counter to women's health. However, I am not so clouded on the issue that I can't be outraged at what I am seeing - as a whole. You cannot explain away what we have seen - admittedly the most damning portions selected by CMP by other selected portions. Time will tell and hopefully all the truth will come out.

This firmly straight head believes we have become too desensitized to abortion.

Medical ethics are for patients. CMP did not represent themselves as patients.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Well then have a standard shipping price list. Why the wining and dining over lunch to discuss shipping costs.

Oh, thanks for enlightening me that fetal parts are extremely perishable. You must be smart.

You're welcome.

It would be difficult to establish a standard processing and shipping charge because there would be too many variables, such as the age of the fetus and the distance the specimens are shipped. The video includes estimated amounts, which is as close as PP can come.

 

[Publius1990]

Medical ethics are for patients. CMP did not represent themselves as patients.

No, medical ethics are for health professionals as well, which is what PP purports to be.

 

[Publius1990]

You're welcome.

It would be difficult to establish a standard processing and shipping charge because there would be too many variables, such as the age of the fetus and the distance the specimens are shipped. The video includes estimated amounts, which is as close as PP can come.

I don't think any of us are experts on shipping human tissue parts and I certainly don't pretend to be one. But I know what I saw on the videos and I don't think they are taking about shipping costs. Look, we can all disagree on the merits on PP. I'm not arguing to eliminate them or defund. But let's not turn our heads and pretend nothing is going on. They have been caught making questionable decisions. Illegal? I don't know. We don't all have the facts. But we should get them and either clear PP or hold anyone responsible if there was wrongdoing.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

But I know what I saw on the videos and I don't think they are taking about shipping costs.

They have been caught making questionable decisions. Illegal? I don't know. We don't all have the facts.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/e4e37e92d1b22cf77d7adb17847b0b22/tumblr_mg53hxUDhh1qii6tmo1_250.gif

Guy. There's no hedging bets in this. Pick a side of the fence and stay there, if your convictions are honest. If you turn out to be right, you can lift your championship trophy up high and if you turn out to be wrong, you'll still live. The Stasi ain't gonna come pull you out of your bed in the middle of the night.

 

[gotsnowgotslush]

The Extreme Right Religious have found their female version of James O'Keefe.

What do we get from her ? Distortions, misleading statements, and outright lies.

False claims, false statements, and claims with no evidence.


http://jezebel.com/latest-bombshell-planned-parenthood-video-is-flimsy-as-1723737583

The object of The Extreme Right Religious's hatred fights back against being maligned-

StemExpress unequivocally denies the allegations made by Holly O’Donnell and The Center for Medical Progress (CMP) and reaffirms that it has never obtained blood or tissue samples from a patient without first obtaining consent. Ensuring that patients have provided consent for blood or tissue donation to support medical research, education, or treatment is a threshold issue that is non-negotiable for StemExpress.

Like all of their previous material, today’s video by CMP is deceptively edited and falsely worded to suggest impropriety or illegality where none exists. CMP’s continued efforts to malign StemExpress—a life-sciences company that predominantly supplies adult cells, blood and tissue to the nation’s leading researchers—will only serve to slow the pace of life-saving medical research aimed at curing disease and extending quality of life for millions of Americans.

 

[gotsnowgotslush]

You can always count on Snopes, to bring facts to the discussion.

http://m.snopes.com/fetal-tissue-sales/

 

[Publius1990]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/e4e37e92d1b22cf77d7adb17847b0b22/tumblr_mg53hxUDhh1qii6tmo1_250.gif

Guy. There's no hedging bets in this. Pick a side of the fence and stay there, if your convictions are honest. If you turn out to be right, you can lift your championship trophy up high and if you turn out to be wrong, you'll still live. The Stasi ain't gonna come pull you out of your bed in the middle of the night.

I understand what you are saying. I don't believe I'm hedging. I'm just being perfectly honest that until all the facts are understood it is very difficult to determine if laws were broken.

While I believe wrongdoing by PP I still feel due process and innocence until proven guilty are critical. Because it really doesn't matter what I believe, or what you believe or anyone else on this board. What we need is the truth and the facts . Everyone should want that. Unfortunately that seems harder to get these days.

 

[about_average]

What about the clips where it appears procedures being altered (not too crunchy) to get intact fetal parts.

Only in the narrowest sense of the definition.
It's likely (like for many medical procedures) there are several established alternative methods to choose from. Choosing one over the other depending on the outcome you want doesn't mean you're altering a procedure.

 

[Mistereeus]

You raise some good points. I try to look at the video for what it is and what is was intended to do. It was produced by people who are absolute anti abortion. One of them called for Dr.s who performed abortions to be shot. What some would call terrorism if you ask me. But I digress. I tend to believe the side of PP more than the other side. Knowing that PP is always under scrutiny for just about everything they do must be aware how careful they have to be. The conversation on the video is between the rep from PP and what she was led to believe were peers. It was essentially shop talk. Sure it may seem callous but I'm sure the conversation overheard between two heart surgeons just might be conceived to be the same way.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I have followed this for a while, and have always been puzzled. Why is it a big deal? In fact, why is it any kind of deal at all?

When a girl or woman gets an abortion, the fetal material is usually treated as medical waste, which it essentially is, and either buried or incinerated. Why not put some of it to use by using it in research? The donor of the material or her parent or guardian can sign a consent form and the tissue can be used, perhaps in finding a cure for diabetes or cancer or other scourge or maybe to grow more tissue to be used in repairing birth defects. These are all good things, at least compared to using up a land fill or polluting the atmosphere. The patient would certainly not want to keep the fetal tissue, so it's a win-win-win situation.

The amounts of money involved are small, certainly not enough to be worth anybody's effort, but enough to cover the processing and shipping of the tissue to a research lab. I think it's safe to say all facilities that perform abortions do much the same thing with the fetal tissue.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Of course it is. Like many arguements this isn't about facts or even common sense. It's about appealing to people's emotions and hoping that accomplishes something. Which in many cases it will. I make an effort to judge things based on facts but I'm not perfect.

This like nearly anti-abortion argument is really about finding some chink in the armor to slither in through. In fairness it's not like the pro-choice doesn't do the same thing. Rape, Incest and late term abortions have no part in the conversation if we're talking rationally.

P.S. Forgive me for not really giving a shit one way or the other how anybody voted in '92. Your beliefs evolving over twenty three fucking years isn't flip flopping of hypocracy. It's growth. We really are too hard on politicians and too easy at the same time. What idiotic creatures we seem to be.

 

[Cicca_Jai]

I believe the girl or woman who had the AB is the one doing the donating, through Planned Parenthood, who then sends it to research labs and charges for the shipping and handling.

To me, this makes eminent good sense. The aborted tissue is otherwise buried or burned, and I think it's much better for everybody to derive some benefit, with nobody being harmed. The donated tissue may some day lead to a cure for cancer or other illnesses or may help in alleviating birth defects.

I see little differences between using fetal tissue for research and donating organs to save lives.

*Claps*
Thank you, well said.