Which Category? Help!

[Jigs]

I would very much like your opinion on a question about which I am uncertain.

Counting the chapters to the five or six stories I have posted to this site, I have about 30+ submissions. Most of these of been of the D/s genre and are posted either in the BDSM or Nonconsent categories. With a little prodding at the end of each story, my readers in been good to me. I am quite proud of the number of views & votes my stories have received.

Still, the stories listed as BDSM and Nonconsent do not attract as many views or votes as those listed in some of the other categories. I decided to test whether 'rough sex' simply appeals to fewer people, or is the choice our readers make between categories more of a habit reflecting a general preference rather than anything specific.

In my test I posted chapters of three different stories that were essentially the same D/s theme as I have been writing all along, except that two of them were in a context that qualified them for the loving wives' category, and in the third I used a mother son relationship that made it eligible for incest.

The results were striking. One of the test stories appearing in loving wives accumulated 700 or so votes in the first week, and since it first appeared in April, has received 1,240 votes and 88,400+ views. Compare that to one of my other stories in BDSM posted in July of last year. In a full year that story has received 855 votes and little over 46,000 views. What is really remarkable about this comparison, however, is that 855 votes are more than any other story has received in either the BDSM or Nonconsent categories. In fact nothing in BDSM is even close, and in Nonconsent there are three stories essentially tied at 730+ votes (one of which if I am allowed to brag is mine).

It is worth noting that the average 1-5 scores are not that much different between the stories in the different categories. Although the readers in the loving wives and incest categories appear to be a little more lenient in their grading, the RANKING of my stories on the top lists tend to be similar regardless of category, and follow a similar pattern (i.e., start off high and drift gradually downward, which seems to be true for everyone's stories in all categories) .

Now I have a new story ready for submission. As usual, it is essentially a female submission story. It does, however, involve the relationship between a husband and wife, and is therefore eligible I believe to be posted in the loving wives' category.

Query: Do I post this story to BDSM where it best fits overall, or do I post it in loving wives where the readers and voters are, and where it is sure to be read by more people? What do you think? Your opinion is appreciated. Thanks! Jigs

 

[Pookie]

Honestly, I would put it where it will get the most views if the content makes it eligible for that category. But you may have to deal with some backlash no matter where you put it.

You are dealing with what I think is a serious issue/problem here at Lit. What you have is a story that fits multiple catgories. Yet you are forced to label it to only one. I find this to be very a major problem for myself as an author. My stories tend to mix themes. I like the idea of blending themes to create some interesting plot twists for the reader. My stories may have things in them ranging from incest, cheating, light bdsm, and a number of other themes. The current system of categorizing stories will force me to pick a theme and label it without any other manner to advertise the contents of the story. I could put story codes at the beginning, hoping the reader will click on it by chance.

I would like to see a way of listing the story codes for the reader to see when browsing through story titles.

 

[KillerMuffin]

The content of the story should decide the submission, not how badly you want readership.

Putting a BDSM story in a category where people expect to read about women cuckolding their husbands is not a very nice thing to do to your readers. You are, in effect, lying to them. If they wanted to read BDSM, they would open the BDSM category.

Somewhere in all of this you really should sit down and think about the guy on the other end of the monitor as a person and not a number. There is a reason those readers are in Loving Wives and not in BDSM. They don't want to read BDSM.

You write stories that appeal to a very small segment of the story reading population. There is simply no way to change that.

 

[wildsweetone]

Query: Do I post this story to BDSM where it best fits overall, or do I post it in loving wives where the readers and voters are, and where it is sure to be read by more people? What do you think? Your opinion is appreciated. Thanks! Jigs

In my humble opinion, I would place the story where it is likely to get most reads.

The view count does not necessarily mean people are reading the entire story, however if you place it in the category which receives the most votes you know that tally is actually reading your story.

I would think that so long as the story has a higher amount of 'loving wives' detail within it (more than BDSM), then that is the category I'd submit too.

edited to alter the last paragraph after taking into consideration KillerMuffin's comments

 

[Singularity]

Another Suggestion for Categories

Like Jigs, I write for the BDSM category (haven't put a single one anywhere else). That is the central theme of my stories, and that is where they should be.

I do have a number of stories that include significant theme elements from other categories, too; such as Exhibitionism & Voyeur, etc. From reading stories in the other categories, I know there are readers there who would probably like some of my stories, if they knew they existed.

What I propose is that an author be required to declare a Primary category for a story, just as we do now; but that we can also delare up to 1-2 other, secondary categories.

So a story that is primarily BDSM one that has significant elements of Non-Consent or Exhibitionism or Fetsh, etc. can be included in those lists, too.

I recognize that this is probably what the keywords is supposed to address, but I doubt that very many authors, or readers, use them.

I think secondary categories makes good sense.

On the category listings, some icon should signal that this is a secondary listing (and ideally what the primary is), so that the potential reader can decide whether to give it a try based on full disclosure.

 

[Pookie]

Here is an example of the dilemma I have with the current system. A summary of a possible story:

“Two couples that have been friends for many years spend the weekend together exploring new sexual adventures. They spend Friday night separately exploring bondage and submission after having spent time learning about different techniques. Saturday morning they spend around town flashing people on the streets. Saturday night they have their first ever session together where each person participates with a partner of the same sex.”

How to categorize this story? You have roughly equal focus on “First Time, “Erotic Couplings” and “Loving Wives”. You have significant focus on “BDSM”, “Exhibitionist & Voyeur” and “Group Sex”

Change a few characters slightly and you can throw in some other categories.

“Two couples, an older couple and younger newlywed couple, ... ”

Now we can throw in “Mature”.

“Two couples, an older couple and younger couple, both interracial ... “

Now we have “Interracial”. Make one of the couples a brother-sister situation and you have 'Incest".

Of course the above story is very contrived. But it is not unusual to have two or more very dominate themes in a story. No matter how you categorize it, some readers may not like certain aspects of it. It may not attract a certain group that you are targeting as well because there is no way to advertise its different themes. If there was a web form that had story codes on it that the author could use, this would become much less of a problem. Let the reader know that the story is about “Loving Wives” involved in “Interracial” sex with “Mature” men that are into “Fetishes” like water sports. I dare say that this story would get a backlash if listed under just one of those categories. If the reader who despises water sports is made aware of it before reading, then they could avoid the story instead of getting to the end and being surprised (and in their anger, submitting a “1” to the story).

Just some thoughts on a problem that I am sure other authors have dealt with. So if i am faced with this dilemma, I will choose the category that will get the highest number of views. I could try using keywords, but this is extremely limited the way it is designed and is hardly if at all advertised as a feature. But why would I be using a search feature when I am looking at a listing of "New Stories" anyways?

Just some thoughts is all.

 

[KillerMuffin]

The description is sort of meant to deal with that. You get that blurb to entice your readers. Most people seem to screw them up or Laurel has to write them.

I don't think the search function uses keywords, I think it searches the entire story for instances of the search word.

Codes, to me, fail often enough to make switching the story database over to their use unfeasible. For instance M/f does not mean the same thing. Sometimes it means adult male minor female, sometimes it means Master and female subbie.

Authors leave out important codes because they don't want to turn readers off or they put in ones that don't work with the story.

Not to mention codes are singularly unattractive and, to me at least, they give a cheap hooker feel to the story. My stories, to me at least (this sounds just so horribly arrogant, but it's not meant that way) aren't about selling sex, they're about selling a story. Wrapping them up in garish make-up and cheap fishnets just feels wrong to me. I think it's terribly condescending of me, but I prefer it when a reader browses through and clicks my story because the title or the blurb is interesting, not because it has a matching sex menu.

I do think subcategories would be wonderful. Click incest and you get a new screen breaking it up into the different familial relationships, or into non-consent and BDSM flavors. Erotic couplings would be fabulous broken down. Work, vacation, neighbors, etc.

The thing to remember when classifying is that there is one dominant theme to all stories. It may have many different themes or can fit in different categories, but there will always be one dominant theme. Find the climax to the story--essentially where the conflict is faced and we move into the resolution of the story) and the theme that's explored there is the one that dominates.

In the instance of the story you mentioned, Pookie, there's too much going on for that to be less than 3,000 words (and only if it's badly written then). Either break it up or put it in Novels.novellas.

 

[Singularity]

Why Treat Novels and Novellas Differently?

I tend to write long, multi-chapter stories. I break them up into chapters to give both me and the readers a break.

But if I were to combine them together, and make a really long story (novella), I would be directed to the Novels and Novellas category.

Why should the length of a story put you into a different category? I think it makes much better sense to put an Incest novel in the Incest category, or BDSM, or whatever else best fits.

If the reader sees a story with 20 Lit pages of text, they know up front it will not be a short read, and can opt out if they don't have the stamina for it.

or, going back to my earlier suggestion, put an epic Fetish story in the Fetish category as Primary, and Novels and Novellas, as a secondary category.

I have to disagree with KM in that further slicing of the categories into smaller subcategories is a good idea. I think that would only exacerbate the problem. I think the category definitions are fine. I just t hink we should be able to designate secondary ones for stories that merit them.

 

[wildsweetone]

I have to disagree with KM in that further slicing of the categories into smaller subcategories is a good idea. I think that would only exacerbate the problem. I think the category definitions are fine. I just t hink we should be able to designate secondary ones for stories that merit them.

How would they show up on Lit though?

Wouldn't that mean that the complete stories would have to be posted twice? Once say in BDSM, and once in Incest? (just examples).

I think that's a whole lot of space filling that could be perhaps better filled in a different way...?

 

[Pookie]

KM

I agree with much of what you say. But I do think some readers like looking for specific types of sex themes. For example, some may care nothing about reading mother-son sex ... but enjoy reading about father-daughter. I guess no matter what is done there will always be issues not covered. I do like the idea of sub-categories though. List the stories primarily by a major category and allow the reader to see one sub-category at least.

The description can help further define the story. Also, I am not exactly sure how the search function works as far as using the key words. I know there is very limited space when it comes to using the keywords.

One example of my own frustration as a reader involves couples stories. I don't care to read humiliation type stories. A number of "cheating" stories contain situations where a husband is humiliated and dominated. I hate to get half way through reading a story and then discover this theme.

Sometimes I would just like to exclude certain topics. Having story codes would help with that too.

Wildsweetone: I think adding a field to the database would avoid having to repost the stories a second time under a different theme. The only problem would be stories already posted that would not have that field updated. Authors would have to be given a way to update the theme listing for those already posted.

 

[Chicklet]

Jigs,

You are an excellent author, I love your stories.

I think that you should keep submitting to BDSM and Nonconsent, even if the votes are lower/fewer because you have a following of readers there. If I see a story by you, I read it. In another category I might not...

That's my opinion. Don't go for votes/reads...you'll always have your audience.

Chicklet

 

[Star of Penumbra]

Query: Do I post this story to BDSM where it best fits overall, or do I post it in loving wives where the readers and voters are, and where it is sure to be read by more people? What do you think? Your opinion is appreciated. Thanks! Jigs

It depends: Do you want to piss off the readers who want a loving wives story and instead get your BDSM work, or do you want to not decieve people like that and put your story where it really belongs?

 

[deliciously_naughty]

I actually have this problem on occasion too...but I try to decide what the most dominant theme is and place it there. And if there is any incest content period, it goes there.

 

[Jigs]

Thank you all. You have made some great points. I agree with killer muffin that I wouldn't want to mislead the reader with something that was inconsistent with the category. I tried to avoid that with my test stories by choosing story names and plot descriptions that hint very strongly of the content. For example, my plot description for the incest story was: "Son makes a sex slave of his mother." I don't think anybody who was paying any attention at all would be misled on the story theme or content.

There's nothing like talking out a question to stimulate the brain cells. With your help I have concluded that the fundamental problem with categories is that often as not they are a comparison of apples to oranges. Some categories, among them loving wives and incest, tell us something of who the players are, but they don't tell us anything about the game they will be playing. Others categories, BDSM and non consent among them, more less describe the kind of sex the story is about without any concern as to who players might be.

For example, a loving wives story has something to do with the relationship between a husband and wife. That is the only given, but the only one. Otherwise the plot might involve rough sex, wife swapping or swinging, a love story, a gangbang, or virtually any other type, form, or nature of cohabitation. We know who the players are but we don't know what they might be doing.

A BDSM story on the other hand tells of us up front that it will certainly involve bondage, or discipline, or sado-machoism, or humiliation, or D/s, or any combination thereof. At the same time we know nothing in advance of who the characters might be, or what relationships might exist between them. They could be anyone, married or unmarried, family members, or strangers in the night. Comparing expectations of a story by reference to Loving Wives & BDSM is therefore simply apples and oranges, because each describes the stories according to entirely different criteria, and neither is in any way exclusive of the other.

Moreover, not only are the categories not necessarily exclusive of each other, in my test mixing D/s into loving wives and incest, I did not receive a single negative feedback or complaint of any kind about the content (or otherwise, except for one guy who wanted less time spent on the story and more on the sex). To the contrary, the response to the test stories was what a country boy might describe as finding a catfish hole full of hungry bass. Clearly a sizable number of readers fishing in loving wives enjoyed a story about a slut wife in submission to a dominant lover.

That must be the thing then! I have decided (I thought)! Its not unethical to move between categories, and I should go for most readers.

But then having rationalized with pure logic how many angels can dance on the head of the pin, along comes a pretty redheaded girl who whispers sweetly in this old man's ear. What can logic possibly do with that? I'm as confused now was I was to begin with and you're to blame Chicklet--but quite sincerely thank you! You have made my day.

 

[NaughtyMike]

Personally I would put it in the incest catagory where you will get the most reads and hint at BDSM in the description for "honesty". Your loyal readers will see the name of the author and read it, plus you reach out to some new people, a couple of which will become groupies.

I recently published a non-consent story. While the voting on it is not my best, it is getting a lot of views and will overtake all my stories in views, maybe even the incest one. Go figure.

I did let it be known in the description it is my sister-in-law, hence a semi-incest story. If you go for BDSM... use incest in your desciption.

WC Fields once said, "Anything worth having is worth cheating for."