Where are they now?

[SamScribble]

My late brother-in-law – who was a scholar and a big brain – used to say that you cannot praise every piece of art. ‘Despite anything that your granny may have told you, always being nice does not raise standards. Criticism serves a purpose.’

When I first started dropping the odd story at Lit – more than a decade ago – there were a few ‘readers’ who used to offer honest criticism. What became of them?

 

[KeithD]

Maybe they came to realize that this site is designed for people to share at their own level just for mutual enjoyment--that this isn't designed to be a critique and writer development story site--unless writers specifically and directly request that help, which most story contributors here aren't requesting.

 

[lovecraft68]

I imagine they may not be around for the same reason people stop posting on social media, they got tired of dealing with the trolls harassing their comments as much as the do the author, and in some cases maybe their well meaning criticism was met with nastiness from the author.

People get tired of having to wade through the shit, and lit, like the aforementioned social media, seems to be swamped with more and more asshats and no one wants to deal with them.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I'm not sure I've really received "honest criticism" - opinions yes, but usefulness, not so much.

But I have received intelligent critique, where what's been said is worth hearing, makes me look at a story with fresh eyes.

I don't know what it was like ten years ago, but over the last five there have been some long term stayers whose opinions are worth having.

I think most of us here have reached a point of some technical proficiency, that we can survive all but the most fastidious commentary (but show me your portfolio, critical guy, so I can make a counter judgement... oh, that's typical, anon or nothing), so isn't the rest of it down to individual style?

I can't see many of us changing our fundamental style at this point, do you? - even if we could.

EB Chameleon just makes me think of a lizard with green skin (or in my case, blue) standing very still, well disguised. Or that lizard that lifts its feet in the air like a Lipizzaner horse (lizard) because the sand is so hot.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I'm not sure I've really received "honest criticism" - opinions yes, but usefulness, not so much.

But I have received intelligent critique, where what's been said is worth hearing, makes me look at a story with fresh eyes.

I don't know what it was like ten years ago, but over the last five there have been some long term stayers whose opinions are worth having.

I think most of us here have reached a point of some technical proficiency, that we can survive all but the most fastidious commentary (but show me your portfolio, critical guy, so I can make a counter judgement... oh, that's typical, anon or nothing), so isn't the rest of it down to individual style?

I can't see many of us changing our fundamental style at this point, do you? - even if we could.

EB Chameleon just makes me think of a lizard with green skin (or in my case, blue) standing very still, well disguised. Or that lizard that lifts its feet in the air like a Lipizzaner horse (lizard) because the sand is so hot.

I don't think that there even that many comments on this, or any site, for that matter. (Except sometimes when competitions are held.) I expect that there will always be a few comments, but I don't make a specific request for them. Once in a great while there will be one that is truly useful, sometimes there will be a few that jog my mind in a specific direction. I almost never delete them, even if I don't agree with them. Sometimes it takes a while, months even, to realize that they have a point.

Yeah, it they are anonymous, I have no idea what they've done themselves, if anything. That is the nature of social media - opinions are like you know what, and everybody has one. I said somewhere that writers are like baseball players; they don't hit a home run, or even a single or a double, every time.

 

[KeithD]

I

I can't see many of us changing our fundamental style at this point, do you? - even if we could.

No, not me, and it doesn't have anything to do with thinking my writing is as wonderful as it can be or that I couldn't develop it further. I have no interest in doing so. I'm near the end of life, writing and otherwise. It's good enough for what I want to do with it, and Literotica is the last stop for my stories. They've already been through the marketplace. I'm releasing them here for a free read. Enjoy them or fuck off.

 

[StrangeLife]

I joined Lit in 2013, and it's not my impression that the "constructiveness" of the critique has gotten worse, or even changed much, over the years.

Of course some categories are more notorious for "fuck off and die" style comments than others (try posting a cuckold story in Loving Wives, if you're a masochist ), but this was also the case 8 years ago. So generally I can't say that I see any deterioration in the quality of the comments...

 

[MillieDynamite]

I don't think I have had the technical aspect of my writing criticized. I have had the odd "pure shit" now and then. And criticisms of the the story in loving wives because I didn't kill the cheating bitch but nothing about plot, word use, sentence structure. Oh, fellow said I had odd word usage, but not sure what he meant as he then went into the use of italics. It was a glitch in the word conversion and nothing I could do about that.

I asked for examples he thought strange, he didn't respond.

 

[StrangeLife]

... criticisms of the the story in loving wives because I didn't kill the cheating bitch...

Exactly. A fun way to troll the readers a little...

 

[lovecraft68]

Exactly. A fun way to troll the readers a little...

I discovered some time ago the LW crowd doesn't even know when they're being trolled. I dropped a crappy story that was so over the top only a moron would see it as anything but a parody poke at the cuck genre

Well, seeing its score is under 3 and the comment section full of the usual LW hate....they're a bunch of morons who are too hate filled to know when something is tongue in cheek.

 

[Comshaw]

My late brother-in-law – who was a scholar and a big brain – used to say that you cannot praise every piece of art. ‘Despite anything that your granny may have told you, always being nice does not raise standards. Criticism serves a purpose.’

When I first started dropping the odd story at Lit – more than a decade ago – there were a few ‘readers’ who used to offer honest criticism. What became of them?

Sorry but I disagree. You don't have to be an abrasive asshat to give someone constructive criticism. In fact, being a self centered passive aggressive asshole many times causes people to ignore the advice no matter how good it is. The old adage "a spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down"is very aprapos to this. You don't need to do a veritable verbal body slam when a gentle nudge works just as well.

Comshaw

 

[StrangeLife]

I dropped a crappy story that was so over the top only a moron would see it as anything but a parody poke at the cuck genre

Well, seeing its score is under 3 and the comment section full of the usual LW hate...

Well, it's an important rite of passage. You can't truly call yourself a fully fledged Lit writer before you've faced the unbridled wrath of Loving Wives and survived

 

[Bramblethorn]

My late brother-in-law – who was a scholar and a big brain – used to say that you cannot praise every piece of art. ‘Despite anything that your granny may have told you, always being nice does not raise standards. Criticism serves a purpose.’

When I first started dropping the odd story at Lit – more than a decade ago – there were a few ‘readers’ who used to offer honest criticism. What became of them?

Still plenty on Story Feedback.

When time allows, I'll happily give feedback to people who've asked for it. I aim to be honest about weaknesses in their stories, but I believe it's possible to deliver criticism without being an asshole about it.

Writing the same kind of feedback to authors who haven't indicated that they want it, or that they'd listen to it, seems like a less effective use of my time and their patience.

 

[lovecraft68]

Well, it's an important rite of passage. You can't truly call yourself a fully fledged Lit writer before you've faced the unbridled wrath of Loving Wives and survived

Very true, I have three there, all from a long time ago, the parody which got killed a burn the bastard story which over the years somehow crept over 4.5 and a serious attempt at a hotwife story that was more along the lines of a stag where the husband is okay with it

Except I did a little misdirect where it started out like it would be a cuck before the twist so I think it got a lot of knee jerk bombs before it was over

 

[LAHomedog]

I don't get a lot of comments, in general, but maybe That's because of the categories I post in.

 

[HectorBidon]

I'm always somewhat amused to read posts on this forum by authors who seem to assume that there should be an array of readers out there whose primary purpose is to provide them with thoughtful, reasoned criticism and helpful writing advice. And just who, out of the whole vast rude bubitude of readers out there, do you think are the most qualified to give competent literary criticism and helpful writing advice? Perhaps the ones who come here to write instead of just to read? Perhaps, in other words, us? There are more than a hundred stories published on this site every single day. How many of them do you read? How many of them do you take time to compose thoughtful reasoned criticism for? How many of their authors do you offer helpful writing advice? Collegiality runs in both directions. Ask not what your website can do for you, ask what you can do for your website.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I'm always somewhat amused to read posts on this forum by authors who seem to assume that there should be an array of readers out there whose primary purpose is to provide them with thoughtful, reasoned criticism and helpful writing advice. And just who, out of the whole vast rude bubitude of readers out there, do you think are the most qualified to give competent literary criticism and helpful writing advice? Perhaps the ones who come here to write instead of just to read? Perhaps, in other words, us? There are more than a hundred stories published on this site every single day. How many of them do you read? How many of them do you take time to compose thoughtful reasoned criticism for? How many of their authors do you offer helpful writing advice? Collegiality runs in both directions. Ask not what your website can do for you, ask what you can do for your website.

I read few stories here a week. I don't often comment, I think Jo does on her account. I vote on my account, not for my own work, but other peoples. I made some critical comments to one writer about losing bra size to describe a woman. I never say, I wear an a 32 A cup, never ever. I just buy the size that fits, which is a 32 A but I don't say it. However, I'm an Aa Cup not an A-1, still not much there though.

 

[YDB95]

I've been here ten years, and I got feedback then and I get it now. Given how many comments are anonymous, I've never really given much thought to where my older critics are now.

 

[KeithD]

How many of them do you take time to compose thoughtful reasoned criticism for?

The number I give advice to who haven't specifically asked for it? ZERO. And it's going to continue that way.

You'll find I have quite a bit of advice here in the sr71plt name in the "How To" category. And you?

 

[gunhilltrain]

Well, it's an important rite of passage. You can't truly call yourself a fully fledged Lit writer before you've faced the unbridled wrath of Loving Wives and survived

I've done it twice - one was a sequel to the previous one - and I got a 3.33 and a 3.45, I think. But yeah, some of the comments could blister paint.

And yet when I did the third one in the series (it wasn't a true series) I put it in Erotic Couplings and I got a 3.86. Which is respectable, I guess, but I thought it would do better than that. But it may be a while before I'm in LW again.

I will admit that my lowest scores (and some of the most wrathful comments) were not in LW.

 

[HectorBidon]

The number I give advice to who haven't specifically asked for it? ZERO. And it's going to continue that way.

You'll find I have quite a bit of advice here in the sr71plt name in the "How To" category. And you?

I'm just an amateur writer myself. I don't offer unasked for advice either, and I don't expect to receive any. But I do appreciate it when someone lets me know that they have enjoyed one of my stories, and in the spirit of collegiality I try to let other authors know when I have enjoyed a story of theirs.

 

[KeithD]

I'm just an amateur writer myself. I don't offer unasked for advice either, and I don't expect to receive any. But I do appreciate it when someone lets me know that they have enjoyed one of my stories, and in the spirit of collegiality I try to let other authors know when I have enjoyed a story of theirs.

Fine, but that's not critique/criticism. Changing the goal posts.

 

[SamScribble]

Gosh. A lot has been going on while I've been sleeping.

But when I said 'honest criticism', I wasn't talking about people saying they enjoyed the story. I, too, like to hear that. And I wasn't talking about junk opinions. I was talking about proper, considered, debatable criticism. The sort of criticism that might help the critic to get a pass in Short Story 101.

 

[PennameWombat]

Gosh. A lot has been going on while I've been sleeping.

But when I said 'honest criticism', I wasn't talking about people saying they enjoyed the story. I, too, like to hear that. And I wasn't talking about junk opinions. I was talking about proper, considered, debatable criticism. The sort of criticism that might help the critic to get a pass in Short Story 101.

Serious question. While I wouldn’t begrudge a reader who’d do that, what’s in it for them? I can read for analysis, such that I could offer criticism on structure, grammar, usage, and other elements. Why? I’ve done a bit of review and such to a few folks directly via this forum (they’ll have to say how useful.)

But I also read for enjoyment. Or… to, oh, maybe, get off a bit. If a story doesn’t do it for me, but it’s close, is it because the grammar was poor? Or was it technically proficient but stilted dialogue? No. There are a hundred other new stories every day I could explore and nearly a half million in the entire site I can wander through rather than reading to analyse and provide feedback without us having connected.

I’m just a rando on the internet, and it’s extra work to craft feedback beyond “great story” or whatever such that I might hope it’d be taken in the right way. And I don’t know the vast majority of authors on this site in any depth. Do you even care? Will you use it?

After all that, I also want time to write my own stuff.

And, I seem to have caused at least one writer to drop his entire effort. Not here, but I pointed out I found the antagonist’s HQ to be unrealistic to have been built. I described the amount of concrete and labor needed in an environment where every truck or train was being hijacked by gangs, law having broken down in his dystopian near-future. Unemployment was rife, so, like with the Hoover Dam during the Depression, the desperate would’ve found it in hopes of getting work. The end of my discussion was “most readers likely don’t have the background I do, to know this stuff. But here are some suggestions…” Overall it was a decent start. It’s just that a huge, hulking, concrete fortress built not far from downtown LA without anyone noticing…

Last I’ve ever heard from him. And his pages have gone silent, it’s not like he continued his novel. Or if he did, it’s nowhere easy to find.

And he asked for my help . (Well, sorta, I answered a call for beta readers for a WIP. He was grateful when I captured some continuity and other issues early on, but well, it all crashed.)

 

[rescatooor]

I mean, I'm sure some are discouraged by the fact that some authors might delete any comment that isn't a praise. It sends a clear message: your opinion is invalid and unwanted here.

I'm sure a lot of people would like to engage in discourse about stories. You see that with major newspaper sites: mildly moderated but never by the person who wrote the piece. You don't exactly have that at Literotica.