When writers get sloppy

[BlackShanglan]

But she was a PERFECT horse, yes? Or did she have knocked knees or something? I made no stipulation about species.

Never really says. I'm just not big on physical detail. She can't be a glossy shampoo-ad horse, though; she's a scrapper and she's beaten near to death in the opening of the story. She spends most of it healing scars, and actually she does skin her knees as well. I don't see her as stunning and beautifully made. Not on the outside, anyway.

Her human isn't particularly special physically, either. All the story ever says is medium height with brown eyes and longish brown hair. I picture him as pleasant-looking, but rather nondescript.

Shanglan

(ETA: Sorry, I should have clarified. Given that her lover is human, I consider "horse" to be a fairly major drawback on the physical front.)

 

[Guest]

Never really says. I'm just not big on physical detail. She can't be a glossy shampoo-ad horse, though; she's a scrapper and she's beaten near to death in the opening of the story. She spends most of it healing scars, and actually she does skin her knees as well. I don't see her as stunning and beautifully made. Not on the outside, anyway.

Her human isn't particularly special physically, either. All the story ever says is medium height with brown eyes and longish brown hair. I picture him as pleasant-looking, but rather nondescript.

Shanglan

Ok, scars count as imperfections.

OH, and there's Alexander Pope as well....just thought of him. Two points to the horsey.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Ok, scars count as imperfections.

OH, and there's Alexander Pope as well....just thought of him. Two points to the horsey.

Oooooh there's points!

I'm an equal-opportunity species-ist, at least. The lead in "Meer Kass" is self-conscious about being a flat-faced ugly naked human.

I think I'm just odd that way. I like to focus on emotion, so from my point of view the more tension I develop between the characters, the better. I'm a sucker for love conquering the most staggering of obstacles, so I keep throwing them at my characters. Often they take the form of physical or social barriers inherent in who the characters are.

What about yours? What sort of balance do you strike? (I shall be reading one shortly of course.)

 

[Guest]

Oooooh there's points!

I'm an equal-opportunity species-ist, at least. The lead in "Meer Kass" is self-conscious about being a flat-faced ugly naked human.

I think I'm just odd that way. I like to focus on emotion, so from my point of view the more tension I develop between the characters, the better. I'm a sucker for love conquering the most staggering of obstacles, so I keep throwing them at my characters. Often they take the form of physical or social barriers inherent in who the characters are.

What about yours? What sort of balance do you strike? (I shall be reading one shortly of course.)

Well, in the two I've posted, the looks are more or less a given (one is a comedic piece, the other fanfic/slash). The one you have, however, is, I think, exactly what you are looking for. I like to juxtapose physically "less than perfect" characters against others who LOOK quite perfect, but have other lacks -- since even pretty people have problems, which occasionally less than pretty people forget.

Like you, I like playing with the tensions and the emotions.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Well, in the two I've posted, the looks are more or less a given (one is a comedic piece, the other fanfic/slash). The one you have, however, is, I think, exactly what you are looking for. I like to juxtapose physically "less than perfect" characters against others who LOOK quite perfect, but have other lacks -- since even pretty people have problems, which occasionally less than pretty people forget.

Like you, I like playing with the tensions and the emotions.

I like your point there, too, about there being more than physical barriers in the world, and more problems than simply not being conventionally attractive - problems that attractive people may also have.

I think it's quite possible to go too far to the opposite extreme of obsessing about attractiveness. Being snide or envious or dismissive of attractiveness, or obsessed with validating one's own brand, is also either ugly or tedious. I remember giving up on a story when the male lead began, in the middle of an alleged sex scene, to spout lines like "X <I'm pretty sure her name was 'X,' or at least that's what the scene felt like>, you are a beautiful woman. You have beautiful thighs. You don't need to be skinnier. I respect a woman with a career who knows what she wants. I respect women who are strong enough to be secure in their own kind of beauty." All right, I'm glad she's getting some validation out of this, but he sounds like he has a pull-string in his back.

Show me how beautiful she is. I promise I'll look. But for heaven's sake, don't read me a sermon on it.

Shanglan

(ETA: And I'm a fool at times too. The sex scene in "Will" gets preachy; that sort of tell-not-show stuff is just what needs cutting there.)

 

[3113]

How many people have written an erotic/romantic story where one or more of the main characters (who get to have sex/romantic encounters) are decidedly LESS than perfect, in particular less that PHYSICALLY perfect? What kind of imperfections did you give the characters? How did it -- or did it at all -- effect the story or the other characters?

I happen to like characters with imperfections, and at least one of my characters always seems to be imperfect. Usually, it's the "perfect" characters that affect the imperfect more than vice versa, making them feel insecure and aware of their own imperfections.

One of my favorite stories Black Lion's Mark, involves a very, physically perfect black leatherman...but he partners up for the night with a scrawny old man. In the gay bar scene, even more than in hetero bars, youth and beauty really counts; I liked the idea of someone young and desirable, and I mean cocky and assured of his desirablity, starting out the story believing that he was being charitable...but finding, at the end, that he was the one who'd been given a gift.

One story, Full Disclosure, had two imperfect characters. The whole idea was for them to discuss and confess to imperfections, not only in how they looked but in relationships, their habits, etc. To show off their "warts" instead of hiding them. So the guy was hairy and had love-handles, the woman was "handsome" but by no means striking, breasts beginning to sag, tummy never going to be flat again, not without help.

Both Exchange Value and Pretty as a Picture, are about contrasts--the perfect with the imperfect. In Exchange it's the girl who's beautiful and the guy who's "creepy." In Picture the guy is an ex-model, stunningly handsome, and the girl is heavy; pretty but plus-sized. Interestingly, of all my stories, Picture has gotten the least number of comments.

 

[elsol]

How many people have written an erotic/romantic story where one or more of the main characters (who get to have sex/romantic encounters) are decidedly LESS than perfect, in particular less that PHYSICALLY perfect? What kind of imperfections did you give the characters? How did it -- or did it at all -- effect the story or the other characters?

I don't like PERFECT because perfect means so much to different people... I do write all attractive females, but what I consider attractive varies...

I prefer my redheads to be Valkyries. (Addison Shepherd in Gray's Anatomy... Dear God!!!)

My blondes in the East Coast style or West Coast style.

Raven haired women have to be bitchy and possess a certain penchant for dominating other women.

Brunettes... need to be short, curvy, with a massive streak of submissiveness just waiting for the right man to ride to oblivion.


Each in her own way is perfect... in my opinion.


Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Stella_Omega]

I've been told- emphatically- that mohawked dykes with small tits aren't attractive
I do write attractive characters- or, at least, I make sure that they are attractive to their partner. Petey has a big scar across her stomach, but it's a sexy scar, makes her look warlike.
Alysson, "the Baroness with the boy" destroyed her body with various over indulgences, had liposuction and cosmetic surgery and has scars "like a Frankenstein's monster" which bother her lover not one iota. (This is based on a real person, and when I sent her the story for approval she told me some of her friends were pissed off that I wrote about her that way.)

I just read "Exchange Value, 3113- a great character!

 

[3113]

I just read "Exchange Value, 3113- a great character!

Curtsy! Thank you, ma'am! Always feel like I can add a gold star to my wall when Stella gives a thumbs up

I was following a request on that one, so as per request the girl had to be pretty. Which left me the guy; to balance things out, I decided to make him not merely imperfect but a little "creepy," the cliché stalker type, the trick being that he's more scared of the beauty than she is of him. I was as surprised as anyone when it worked out...especially with economics as the theme

 

[rgraham666]

Don't know if I've ever done a 'perfect' character. If I did, I'd probably probably make them the villain of the piece. Have their beauty go to their head.

Personally, I prefer characters who aren't perfect. It gives more latitude to examine their emotions. Which, to me, is what stories are all about.

 

[Guest]

I like your point there, too, about there being more than physical barriers in the world, and more problems than simply not being conventionally attractive - problems that attractive people may also have...

Show me how beautiful she is. I promise I'll look. But for heaven's sake, don't read me a sermon on it.

Oh yes! I sometimes feel the same way whenever the laundry list o' looks appears -- I'd rather see than accept on the author's word that someone's looks are that good. Show me other people reacting to her. Let me SEE her the way we all see -- not just the person in question, but the aura.

(ETA: And I'm a fool at times too. The sex scene in "Will" gets preachy; that sort of tell-not-show stuff is just what needs cutting there.)

*blink* that explains it. I confess, I skimmed paragraphs tryin to find the answer to a single question -- did someone get laid here? I've done that myself. I use gardening shears to get through many an edit.

 

[BlackShanglan]

*blink* that explains it. I confess, I skimmed paragraphs tryin to find the answer to a single question -- did someone get laid here? I've done that myself. I use gardening shears to get through many an edit.

Yes. That whole story was a struggle, and the sex scene triply so. First version was too explicit, second too wandering and diffuse. Perhaps the third time will prove the charm. I'm done most of the rest of the revision, but that's the really knotty part. So many ways to go wrong with it.

 

[Guest]

Yes. That whole story was a struggle, and the sex scene triply so. First version was too explicit, second too wandering and diffuse. Perhaps the third time will prove the charm. I'm done most of the rest of the revision, but that's the really knotty part. So many ways to go wrong with it.

Indeed, a complex scene -- but if anyone can make it work, you can. You know my opinion waits at your beck and call...or whinny...or whatever

 

[SophiaY]

"Horrible flow – Sentences nearly 100 words long, or sentences all about the same length. Bore me with mono-tone. Some stories have a mixture of sentence length, but with a rhythm that do not match the context."

(laughing) I wrote a story, for the challenge of it, where evey paragraph is the exact same number of words.
Apparently, either it worked, or those who read it didn't care.

What stops me? Outside the obvious she/he doesn't really have a clue about how people are, in and out of bed? Small things, like having a street go in the wrong direction -- oh, one thing that really makes me roll my eyes: when the author stops to tell me a woman's measurements.

 

[minsue]

I've been told- emphatically- that mohawked dykes with small tits aren't attractive

You've been misinformed.

 

[SophiaY]

You've been misinformed.

(drawling) she has been very misinformed...

 

[Guest]

(drawling) she has been very misinformed...

Isn't it terrible when people don't know where to go for the correct information It's not like the knowledge isn't OUT THERE.

 

[SophiaY]

I think (yeah, I've been known to now and then), that one of the most uninformed pieces of advice is" "Write about what you know about."

Better is: "Write about what interests you, excites you."

You can always learn details and specifics about anything.

 

[Guest]

I think (yeah, I've been known to now and then), that one of the most uninformed pieces of advice is" "Write about what you know about."

Better is: "Write about what interests you, excites you."

You can always learn details and specifics about anything.

I've heard the opposite, too, in "write about what you don't know" -- write about something that you want to know about. Imagine things about it, research about it, speculate and ask questions and write it all down.

Damn, now I'll have to look up where I read that. The book makes a much better explanation of the idea than I am.

 

[cantdog]

I'm with you sarahh, you would think with all the money we pour into the school districts they could at least teach our children to write good porn. It is prolly the fact that our teachers are underpaid and understaffed, that we never get turned on from the graffiti spraypainted under bridges.

I wanted to overstaff one of my German teachers, man. She was clearly 'way understaffed.

 

[Guest]

I wanted to overstaff one of my German teachers, man. She was clearly 'way understaffed.

Wie romantisch!

Sie sagen die süßesten Dinge.

 

[cantdog]

She wore these white socks. I dunno.

 

[Guest]

She wore these white socks. I dunno.

Perverser Mensch.