When writers get sloppy

[Guest]

I did have a woman complain about the man being a weight.

Actually, she squirmed a bit and he had enough brains to realise she was uncomfortable.

How's that for unrealistic?

Doesn't that count as a "sensitive man"? And isn't that like a metrosexual?

Are metrosexuals allowed in erotic fiction?

 

[rgraham666]

Doesn't that count as a "sensitive man"? And isn't that like a metrosexual?

Are metrosexuals allowed in erotic fiction?

Yes. Not necessarily. And why not?

 

[oggbashan]

I did give one of my heroines dandruff.

Another had very small breasts, wore breast pads and had a hairpiece.

One of the men wore strong glasses and couldn't see his partner without them.

But then I am 'experimental'...

Og

 

[Guest]

I did give one of my heroines dandruff.

Another had very small breasts, wore breast pads and had a hairpiece.

One of the men wore strong glasses and couldn't see his partner without them.

But then I am 'experimental'...

Og

Ooof, cutting edge there!

 

[Aurora Black]

I did give one of my heroines dandruff.

Another had very small breasts, wore breast pads and had a hairpiece.

One of the men wore strong glasses and couldn't see his partner without them.

But then I am 'experimental'...

Og

*chokes on food*

 

[Guest]

*chokes on food*

**pats Aurora on the back**

Easy there, girl! Don't let Ogg's avantgarde ways upset you! He's just a rebel, a radical. He has no respect for long established erotic tradition where everone is the epitome of sexual desirousness, detailed in carefully measured dimensions, with perfect hair, lipstick that won't smudge, double bending limbs and erections that never flag.

Ogg, really, you should be more careful revealing your outre concoctions without warning to an unsuspecting public. Heavens, man, you might make someone think and hurt themselves!

 

[Guest]

I don't even know where to begin....

I do know my worst mistake ever was posting Dreaming in the Dark Chapter 2. It sucked more than a heroin whore, and I should have never written it, but I gave into peer pressure, wrote a story I didn't want to, and it showed. Why it has an H i will never understand.

Second to that was posting the unedited version of RNRF: HIM. *sighs* I have to replace it with the one WITHOUT typos at some point.

I'm not a very good erotica author per se, but I do angsty unrequited love or love from an insurmountable distance well. And I am, when it comes to other people's work, a pretty decent beta reader/editor.

Worst thing someone else has every done... a girl in a seperate comm I belong to, HIM Fanfics, posted a story that... *shudders* Is incredibly bad. The first chapter she posted, I flat out begged her to let me fix. It was completely flat, completely banal, she couldn't keep her verb tenses/character POVs straight, and there was:

No capitalization
No Punctuation besides the comma, which she seems to think is all-purpose
Gross spelling errors (Which, okay, everyone makes typos, but constantly calling a band member of the fandom you are writing for LINDA when his name is LINDE is beyond the pale.)
Absolutely no description of anything besides the fact that it was early afternoon, then dark outside (within a paragraph with no mention of how so many hours had passed) and that Linda (I'm still shuddering) was drunk.
Usage of swear words that made no point to the sentence... "He shitting turned around and walked out the fucking door." There is no excuse for that. (And I made that example up, but there were things just as random.)

The worst part was, I sent her the beta'd version back, and that chapter came out fairly well (although she screwed up and stopped punctuating/capitalizing after I had quit doing so on the original draft, assuming, and leaving a note to the effect, that she had the idea of it.). However, with the next three chapters she's posted since then... all the mistakes are back and then some.

I assumed she was NOT a native speaker and that English was giving her trouble. She's American, and lives in the Midwest as it turns out. My question then becomes: why the hell is a 13-year old (I'm assuming there, she never told me her age) trying to write bad smut, and what the hell is going on in our school system to let her think that THIS IS OKAY?

Okay... rant over. I think...

Probably not, but I'll wait until I stop twitching from horrible, traumatic memory flashbacks to continue.

 

[Guest]

I don't even know where to begin....
Worst thing someone else has every done... a girl in a seperate comm I belong to, HIM Fanfics, posted a story that... *shudders* Is incredibly bad. The first chapter she posted, I flat out begged her to let me fix. It was completely flat, completely banal, she couldn't keep her verb tenses/character POVs straight, and there was...Probably not, but I'll wait until I stop twitching from horrible, traumatic memory flashbacks to continue.

Poor Angel! Here, drink some water before you get hiccups or sick or something!

Ya know, I am critical of my own work and I'm critical of others. But I react to errors in a piece differently depending on what they are. Problems with diction, grammar, word use, punctuation -- those bother me because those are the EASY things to fix. They just are not complicated and there a scads and scads of books and other materials to help. We expect gradeschool children to grasp these concepts, so it's very hard to accept an adult who hadn't or won't take the time to learn them. They will stop me reading because I find that when a writer won't bother with the little, simple parts of writing (and I don't mean a few typos, I mean a profound and pervasive lack of care) I have no trust they will give any more attention to the other parts of the story. I don't trust them to develop characters, write dialog, create settings, or convey a thought.

If I don't trust the author, I will not get into the story with them and let them drive me around.

Now, if an author manages the small things, I'll go along until bigger things jump up at me. Slash fiction is particularly prone to the "telling not showing" problem, and the horror of hackneyed cliches. I've read too many slash stories that have the heroes stuck in a cave, a desert island, or even an uninhabited planet. Once in a while, it's done well, but not nearly as often as I'd like.

Some cliches and fantasies I can accept in erotic fiction. I do read a lot of it. I've made it through the Sleeping Beauty series more than once (although the continuity errors bug me like mad, and even in the lushness of that story world I keep wondering about certain "factual" things -- it helps not to think too much.)

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Worst thing someone else has every done... a girl in a seperate comm I belong to, HIM Fanfics, posted a story that... *shudders* Is incredibly bad. The first chapter she posted, I flat out begged her to let me fix. It was completely flat, completely banal, she couldn't keep her verb tenses/character POVs straight, and there was:

That's one of the reasons I rarely if ever read FanFic. I know there are some good people working in it (Earl, for one), but fthere are too many people who are just captivated by the idea of fantasy fucking some pop star and think, for some reason, that the world is just waiting to read their masturbatory wet dream. These stories tend to be lame. If you don't know who the celebs are who getting plonked, they rarely hold up on their own, which somehow just seems dishonest to me--parasitic.

More than any other category, I think FanFic attracts some very bad writers.

 

[Guest]

I assumed she was NOT a native speaker and that English was giving her trouble. She's American, and lives in the Midwest as it turns out. My question then becomes: why the hell is a 13-year old (I'm assuming there, she never told me her age) trying to write bad smut, and what the hell is going on in our school system to let her think that THIS IS OKAY?

Clarification, please?

It's the school district's (or the Midwest's) fault that she writes poorly or that she writes porn?

 

[Guest]

That's one of the reasons I rarely if ever read FanFic. I know there are some good people working in it (Earl, for one), but fthere are too many people who are just captivated by the idea of fantasy fucking some pop star and think, for some reason, that the world is just waiting to read their masturbatory wet dream. These stories tend to be lame. If you don't know who the celebs are who getting plonked, they rarely hold up on their own, which somehow just seems dishonest to me--parasitic.

More than any other category, I think FanFic attracts some very bad writers.

Oh, I so agree with you. I have commited the Slash sin, but only after a great deal of soul searching and self recrimination for stooping so low I also did it in an attempt to subvert the conventions and do it WELL. I figured there should be at least one well written slash piece out there, and I was the girl to do it.

(not much ego involved, don't cha think?)

Actually, it took a lot of thought to post the piece on Lit, and even now I want to run one more edit over it. Haven't yet because I've got two stories and a novel on the stove, another novel awaiting edits, and a slew of shorts needing attention -- and too many distractions to name

Even in the world of FanFic I think there are lines over which some will trip happily. I dislike on principal any fanfic involving, shall we say, "real people" over existing fictional characters. I personally think such stories are mastubatory fantasies and should be PRIVATE and PERSONAL, as they never hold the same power for others as they do for the originator.

Then again, it's one area where the idea of elitism comes up. So many well intentioned folks tell the world "anyone can write. everyone has a great novel in them". Well, I stand here to say it ain't so. Just being able to write does not equal being able to write fiction, and an ability to write fiction doesn't automatically mean writing fiction WELL. That's the spot where I struggle, in trying to write WELL. It may be forever a goal I can't reach, but, dammit, I am committed to trying, which means ...a lot of things I won't list here because everyone else who's trying to reach that same goal already knows.

 

[3113]

No capitalization
No Punctuation besides the comma, which she seems to think is all-purpose

Um, seriously? I mean, no periods? No periods would drive me buggy. I can forgive comma problems only because I suffer from them myself (bad speller, bad punctuator my life long)...though I try, Lord knows, I try....

I can't say if my bad spelling is due to mild dyslexia, or maybe bad teaching (I remember flunking all these spelling tests back when I was 12 and no one did anything about it! They just gave me bad grades on spelling tests. I mean, come on! You think a 12 year old is going to care if their spelling tests get an "F"?). I'm pretty sure the way I learned to read contributed (Whole Language--which is recognizing the whole word rather than sounding it out...which all too many people supported for way too long, but was a VERY bad way to teach reading. Only naturally good readers benefit, the rest don't learn, and neither learns to spell! I'm a very speedy reader...but I can't spell). Perhaps all three?

Usage of swear words that made no point to the sentence... "He shitting turned around and walked out the fucking door." There is no excuse for that. (And I made that example up, but there were things just as random.)

Weird. Literary Tourette's syndrome?

 

[Guest]

Um, seriously? I mean, no periods? No periods would drive me buggy. I can forgive comma problems only because I suffer from them myself (bad speller, bad punctuator my life long)...though I try, Lord knows, I try....

I can't say if my bad spelling is due to mild dyslexia, or maybe bad teaching (I remember flunking all these spelling tests back when I was 12 and no one did anything about it! They just gave me bad grades on spelling tests. I mean, come on! You think a 12 year old is going to care if their spelling tests get an "F"?). I'm pretty sure the way I learned to read contributed (Whole Language--which is recognizing the whole word rather than sounding it out...which all too many people supported for way too long, but was a VERY bad way to teach reading. Only naturally good readers benefit, the rest don't learn, and neither learns to spell! I'm a very speedy reader...but I can't spell). Perhaps all three?


Weird. Literary Tourette's syndrome?

Trying is the one thing that differentiates a poor writer from a good writer (in my oh so humble opinion). I spell pretty well if I see the words (don't ask me to spell out loud) but that's because I work at it. I study words and how they are put together. I ASKED FOR an unabridged dictionary for Christmas when I was 15 (because I'd already worn out my collegiate dictionary). I literally studied the dictionary because 1) I love words 2) I wanted to figure out how to spell stuff I couldn't spell, and how to look up words I couldn't spell.

Now I use an online dictionary that has this wonderful "suggestion" function. I spell the word as best I can, and it will pull up all the options. I look until I find the right one. It's easy.

i also spend time "teaching" my spell check dictionary. I lean on that thing so hard, even though I often argue with it.

I guess it's just a trade off for me. I can spell because I can't do math

 

[Stella_Omega]

Clarification, please?

It's the school district's (or the Midwest's) fault that she writes poorly or that she writes porn?

That she writes badly.
A teenage girl will write smut with no encouragement at all. It's a spontaneous phenomenon...

(I admit to writein fan fiction, too- and I have found a few other people who write it well. Interestingly enough, they are- all three of these others- women in, or nearing, their fifties. I draw no conclusions from this, it's just interesting

 

[Lisa Denton]

I did have a woman complain about the man being a weight.

Actually, she squirmed a bit and he had enough brains to realise she was uncomfortable.

How's that for unrealistic?

Actually, your finger was slidin up my nose ...... and good girls don't do nasal sex.

(Ooooooh, you was talkin about a story .................... nevermind)

 

[Owlwhisper]

.....

 

[Lisa Denton]

I did give one of my heroines dandruff.

But then I am 'experimental'...

Og

Was she a communicatin lesbian spider with dandruff?

Yes it may be experimental Og, but hot, very hot.

I gotta go take a cold shower.

 

[Guest]

I'll go one step further and denounce fanfics about fictional characters.

Allow me to get intellectual and cite a Bloom County strip to make my point. One of the characters (Opus, or maybe Binkley?) had a favorite piece of music for which a video had just been made. The video featured, as I recall, exploding dolphins. After watching it he complained that he'd never be able to hear the music again without seeing the images of detonating dolphins. The music was ruined for him.

Fanfics about fictional characters can do the same thing: after reading them, you may no longer be able to see the characters as the original authors intended. Consider movie adaptations of books; how often have you, upon rereading a book, had images from the movie version -- essentially, a big-budget fanfic -- intrude?

I've not had the problem so I can't sympathise there. I rarely have the same perception of a fictional character as anyone else seems to anyway

 

[Guest]

That she writes badly.
A teenage girl will write smut with no encouragement at all. It's a spontaneous phenomenon...

(I admit to writein fan fiction, too- and I have found a few other people who write it well. Interestingly enough, they are- all three of these others- women in, or nearing, their fifties. I draw no conclusions from this, it's just interesting

Hey Stella!

It's true. I look back on my own writing as a 13 year old (yes, I have my juvenalia, so that I can feel simulatanously humiliated and proud that I've improved somewhat) and despite being a fairly innocent young teen, I was heading there. It's all over the place. I was writing about it and I didn't even have a clue.

 

[Lisa Denton]

Clarification, please?

It's the school district's (or the Midwest's) fault that she writes poorly or that she writes porn?

I'm with you sarahh, you would think with all the money we pour into the school districts they could at least teach our children to write good porn. It is prolly the fact that our teachers are underpaid and understaffed, that we never get turned on from the graffiti spraypainted under bridges.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Hey Stella!

It's true. I look back on my own writing as a 13 year old (yes, I have my juvenalia, so that I can feel simulatanously humiliated and proud that I've improved somewhat) and despite being a fairly innocent young teen, I was heading there. It's all over the place. I was writing about it and I didn't even have a clue.

And aren't you glad it isn't on the internet! I like to look back at that stuff, but I wouldn't want to show it to anyone else And these kids get so hurt if you aren't all squeeing and shit...
I'm sorry, honey, I don't do squee.

 

[Guest]

And aren't you glad it isn't on the internet! I like to look back at that stuff, but I wouldn't want to show it to anyone else And these kids get so hurt if you aren't all squeeing and shit...
I'm sorry, honey, I don't do squee.

LOLOL!

You made me snort my drink!

No, if I'm squeeing, there's a serious medical problem. Someone will need to call for cleanup on Aisle 3!

 

[oggbashan]

Was she a communicatin lesbian spider with dandruff?

Yes it may be experimental Og, but hot, very hot.

I gotta go take a cold shower.

Make sure you use a brand name anti-dandruff shampoo and body moisturiser afterwards.

Og

And don't flush any spiders down the plughole!

 

[Guest]

Wow... okay... big wow, admittedly... didn't know fanfic was such a huge no-no.

So, I guess you'll all hate me when I say I write Harry Potter slash and het fic as well?

*snickers* Truthfully, I don't care what I'm reading... it can be a damn cereal box. IF they screw it over THAT badly... I'm going to want to shove a six-inch stiletto heel up their ass and start doing the twist.

Oddly enough, I feel like I've just been flogged, crucified, burned, and then had my dead, desecrated, flaming ass reamed. With no lube!!!

So... the fanfic addict will just step out and keep her mouth shut now.

 

[Guest]

Wow... okay... big wow, admittedly... didn't know fanfic was such a huge no-no.

So, I guess you'll all hate me when I say I write Harry Potter slash and het fic as well?

*snickers* Truthfully, I don't care what I'm reading... it can be a damn cereal box. IF they screw it over THAT badly... I'm going to want to shove a six-inch stiletto heel up their ass and start doing the twist.

Oddly enough, I feel like I've just been flogged, crucified, burned, and then had my dead, desecrated, flaming ass reamed. With no lube!!!

So... the fanfic addict will just step out and keep her mouth shut now.

No no no, *I* don't think it's a big nono. Hell, I've WRITTEN it. I have just seen a lot of it done BADLY. It's bound to be scarring. I've also read enough GOOD fanfic to still pay attention to it.

Some people will NEVER like it. AFter all, you must admit it is tricky ground, using someone else's characters and worlds to enact your own stories. It's also very challenging to really get into someone else's mind (especially with a TV or movie character, where the result is the product of many minds anyway).

I read my first back in the late 70's when everything was Star Trek and Dr. Who and...maybe...Blake's 7.

So don't you DARE sit in the corner