When things go wrong

[CutieMouse]

After 30 something years in and out of this lifestyle can someone please explain something. Maybe I've been confused all this time but what does "Protector" mean to you?
Do they watch over someone or is it a physical relationship?

Yep, the shit just keeps rolling in.

As far as I can tell, a "protector" is there to "help" submissives make "good decisions" in the big bad BDSM world. Theory being, that if a submissive has a history of choosing bad relationships, she needs someone to help her make better decisions.

Personal opinion - "protectors" are often an excuse for the submissive to avoid owning his/her shit and being a responsible adult. On the flip side, it's a great way for a dominant to cock-block and manipulate the situation to his (or her) advantage. I've always been curious... If a submissive isn't capable of making a smart choice re: a dominant partner, what magically changes and makes him/her capable of choosing an appropriate "protector"?

 

[Yourneighbor]

Personal opinion - "protectors" are often an excuse for the submissive to avoid owning his/her shit and being a responsible adult. On the flip side, it's a great way for a dominant to cock-block and manipulate the situation to his (or her) advantage. I've always been curious... If a submissive isn't capable of making a smart choice re: a dominant partner, what magically changes and makes him/her capable of choosing an appropriate "protector"?

Amen.

 

[sweetheart97]

As far as I can tell, a "protector" is there to "help" submissives make "good decisions" in the big bad BDSM world. Theory being, that if a submissive has a history of choosing bad relationships, she needs someone to help her make better decisions.

Personal opinion - "protectors" are often an excuse for the submissive to avoid owning his/her shit and being a responsible adult. On the flip side, it's a great way for a dominant to cock-block and manipulate the situation to his (or her) advantage. I've always been curious... If a submissive isn't capable of making a smart choice re: a dominant partner, what magically changes and makes him/her capable of choosing an appropriate "protector"?

I've considered myself new in the BDSM scene for about a year now, and this is the first I've heard of a protector. As far as picking a responsible relationship, I'm right there with you. I agree with your personal opinion.

However, if the person in question already made a decision, and tried to deal with it on their own, or simply wanted a second opinion, maybe a trusted friend wouldn't be a bad idea. Even in the vanilla world, there have been times when I've gone to break up with a guy and have brought back up in case things went south and I was unable to deal with him, or made additional back up plans in case things went even further south. That's more exit strategy than protector-ness though.

 

[wicked woman]

My understanding of "protector" as it plays out on fetlife has been that it is a mentor-like position with a bit of bouncer thrown in. Usually, but not necessarily, an experienced dominant who is watching out for a new submissive as they enter the lifestyle. Primarily to make sure that predators know someone's got their back, so to speak.

But I'll be honest. I've always been suspect of "protectors" who become play partners, though I can understand how it happens.

While I agree with your understanding of protector, there seem to be more than enough PYL on Fetlife that include training, play and/or sex in their definition.

 

[desertslave]

I know there are holdovers from the Old Guard in certain places, but the idea of a 'trainer' always sort of puzzled me, beginning with reading Story of O and going well beyond that in both fiction and IRL.

I just don't understand sending one's prospective pyl to someone else for training. Aren't they going to be trained to the trainer's specs, then? Or is there some sort of understanding to the effect of "I want a pyl just like your pyl, so please make one just like that for me." It just boggles my sense of individualism and personal responsibility. If I were a PYL, I'd relish doing the training myself because it creates the bond and provides some fun opportunities for correction, as well.

A protector makes a bit more sense, in that it can be someone who is looking out for an unattached pyl. BUT would most PYL's really be interested in a pyl who doesn't have sense enough to look out for themselves? Protector seems like half a step away from pimp, to me.

All of this protocol is probably a big part of the reason that I tend to shy away from social/organized BDSM. My first Sir, and his Sir, came out of the Old Guard traditions. I learned to follow them because "this is the way it is done" but a lot of the social protocols just made me go WTF much of the time.

 

[Stella_Omega]

What Old Guard Traditions?

Because I'll tell you the truth-- there aren't any Old Guard Traditions.

There were no Great Houses. There were whorehouses. And a handful of novels.

"Training" is a marvellous fantasy for bottoms. Especially female bottoms. Imagine, all of that attention those trainers give you yeah baby! And you'll get all the fucking you want and then-- impress some rich dude so much that he'll put his collar on you, the BDSM romance wedding bells will ring.

And of course, being a trainer is a big ass fantasy for men. Imagine.. all those willing young (of course) beautiful (of course) women eager to suck your dick! And you don't have to commit to any of them, because they all already have boyfriends-- all of whom are perfectly fine with you fucking their girlfriends.

Win-win.

 

[missgiter]

What Old Guard Traditions?

Because I'll tell you the truth-- there aren't any Old Guard Traditions.

There were no Great Houses. There were whorehouses. And a handful of novels.

"Training" is a marvellous fantasy for bottoms. Especially female bottoms. Imagine, all of that attention those trainers give you yeah baby! And you'll get all the fucking you want and then-- impress some rich dude so much that he'll put his collar on you, the BDSM romance wedding bells will ring.

And of course, being a trainer is a big ass fantasy for men. Imagine.. all those willing young (of course) beautiful (of course) women eager to suck your dick! And you don't have to commit to any of them, because they all already have boyfriends-- all of whom are perfectly fine with you fucking their girlfriends.

Win-win.

Doesn't get any better than that.

 

[desertslave]

What Old Guard Traditions?

Because I'll tell you the truth-- there aren't any Old Guard Traditions.

I misspoke. I'm awaiting a cosmic lightning bolt as I type. Not the eurotrash old guard myth...whatever the official (or not) term is for the gay leather guys from institutions such as the Mineshaft in NYC back in the 70s/early80s (which I was led to understand were at least a decade older). Back before the meat packing district became fashionable and HIV killed off most of the joy. It was explained to me that is came somewhat out of the military (long before DADT) and biker groups...their structure, their sense of protocol.

I'm not much into ritual for ritual's sake, so I never much took a shine to it, but it put me in my place when I was learning, so it had some value.

I'm just an oblong-ish kind of peg, that's all.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I misspoke. I'm awaiting a cosmic lightning bolt as I type. Not the eurotrash old guard myth...whatever the official (or not) term is for the gay leather guys from institutions such as the Mineshaft in NYC back in the 70s/early80s (which I was led to understand were at least a decade older). Back before the meat packing district became fashionable and HIV killed off most of the joy. It was explained to me that is came somewhat out of the military (long before DADT) and biker groups...their structure, their sense of protocol.

I'm not much into ritual for ritual's sake, so I never much took a shine to it, but it put me in my place when I was learning, so it had some value.

I'm just an oblong-ish kind of peg, that's all.

Ah, sorry. I assumed you meant het stuff.

No... there were no gay "slave trainers for other masters" in the Old Guard days. There was a lot of "grab a bottom boy and shove your dick in a hole." It was pretty rough and raw.

There's been a buttload of romantic nonsense concocted since then, like Council of Masters, and Lid ceremonies, and shit but the real foundation of leather is this:

In a same-sex relationship, there is gender parity.

Unless the two partners can in fact, be truly equal in status in very other way, I don't see how they can be Leather. The act of handing over power has to be predicated on something other than "me Tarzan you Jane."

The "biology is destiny" attitude of so many hetero players is why I treat the claims of "het leather" with so much cautious suspicion. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, mind you. But it sure is funny how often there's a Sir and a slave, not a M'am and a slave, don't you think?

 

[desertslave]

The "biology is destiny" attitude of so many hetero players is why I treat the claims of "het leather" with so much cautious suspicion. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, mind you. But it sure is funny how often there's a Sir and a slave, not a M'am and a slave, don't you think?

I was lucky (?) to be an exception to the rule. My Sir was bi and quite switchy. His Sir was willing to give him....sheesh, I want to say free rein but that's a lie. LOL He was allowed to pursue me within limits they set together. I was his 'girl on the side' so he could work out his switchy urges without much menace to their relationship. Yanno, it was a lot easier to live than to explain. Especially considering how much time (and experience) has passed since then.

I adore the leather community to which I was introduced. The dignity of most of the male subs I met is just...wow. It's part of the reason that I go ballistic when ignorant people start babbling about "flaming fags" bullshit. My friends were never like that. (I lived and worked in NYC during the first half of the 80s--tough times in so damn many ways.)

And now, back to your regular programming, and my apologies to the OP for another derailing.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Indeed, and I apologise as well.

 

[SpiritRider]

I know it's not proper etiquette to dredge up an old thread, but creating a new one seemed silly.

It's been quite a year. All this crap finally came to a head when the authorities advised me to make myself scarce from the internet for awhile. Now I'm happy to say I've got my life back.

 

[Netzach]

ed. blah -

Jesus what a mess, OP.