When is a slave too needy? Too argumentative?

[esclave_PP]

Over the years I've had different slaves/subs both males and females...some had personality traits that would drive me bonkers but the worst two I've have found are incessent neediness and constant arguing...now I say to myself, "Self, if you're the Domme, why do they argue with you?" "Why does their behavior bother you?" "Is it a reflection of me, that I am not tough enough?" "Is it because they are not experienced enough?" And I still wonder what causes such abhorent behavior in submissives. Do they just want to be punished? Do they want to prove they aren't submissive and under your control? I've been in the lifestyle a long time, and I still don't have any real concrete answers....would love to hear your opinions.

As for incessent neediness...I realize a submissive depends on ones Dom/Domme/Master/Mistress for many things, emotionally, physically but when does it go overboard? When it feels like they are naggy and whiny? How does one go about getting over feeling like nails are on a chalkboard?

Anyway I am just doing a bit of reflection as I let my slave go the other day. I was training her for being taken by her hubby (who will be her Master now which was the plan from get-go -- he has since "bought her back"). She's absolutely a wonderful slave, loyal, and very obedient but she would get argumentative and needy, just over the top.

So I guess in a round about way, I am asking for opinions...

Thanks!

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Well now ...

If you want to start at one end of the spectrum, do a search on Ebonyfire. She has a rather straightforward approach to the matter.

Define arguing ... as in the subject matter. If the issues deal with with the foundation of your relationship, that's open for discussion and always should be. If the issues deal with petty chit and the pyl admits it, that's rocking the foundation ... handle as you see fit.

Neediness and control go hand in hand. If your control makes the pyl feel secure, a light exertion of that control should reinforce that feeling of security. If you get into a vicious cycle where a pyl needs overbearing control to accomplish the simplest things, dial it back and watch what happens.

If a pyl goes bonkers, whether arguing without just cause or spinning with need beyond your toleration, deal out punishment ... as in isolation ... as in banishment to vanilla land for the period of time you see fit. Doesn't matter what kind of pyl. Take away that identity. If the pyl asks for release, you've freed yourself of a problem child, and they've freed themselves to look for something different.

If, however, they remember why the hell they came to you in the first place, welcome to paradise.

 

[fallon2]

I know

I know a sub who is high maintenance and needy at the same time.

She has a lot of questions and is learning about her self. I think that is where the "arguing" although I never think of her that way comes in.

She has a great personality and an even better mind.

Emotionally, she has a hard time with reaching out and taking a chance and I am not willing to push her limits.

Therefore, as long as she wants I am willing to work with her and I don't care that she is needy or high maintenance.

Some of the best subs are both.

 

[WriterDom]

I wouldn't waste my time on a brat. I seek partners as part of a team, not someone playing head games. I'm starting to see the Domme side of things where there are many subs out there so if you are playing games, there is the door.

 

[kridina]

As a new slave myself, i struggled with an aurgumentive side.i challenged my Master at every step of the way, and with us both being new, it was detremental to what we were trying to accomplish. Now, i am most certainly not into punishment, and that helped me get in line, but, i had to do a lot of soul searching to discover why i fought the very thing i feel i need. To submit to another as completely as possible. i discovered that it was learned behavior and my lack of complete trust in my Master. The trust was an important issue and stemed from the reason WHY i had certain undesirable learned behavior. i really think i did it to protect myself. Everyone has had a bad experience in a relationship, and each person deals with it in a different ways. Trust is something you decide to do. There have been plenty of times i know people don't trust someone and that person never actually did anything to warrent that mistrust! It's a conscious decision to trust someone, even if the decision is one accomplished in gradual steps.

i hope this helped somewhat in understanding why somone would be difficult when they say all the right things and appear to want to submit during negotiations. As for being needy, i'm not sure at what point a slave or sub is considered needy. It may be that it is as simple as the slave/sub is not the one for that particular Master/Mistress and vice versa.

 

[Netzach]

There's game playing and then there's just the person you are with.

I'm argumentative, why would a sub suddenly magically not be?

M is extremely cautious and control-freaky. That doesn't mean he doesn't not want to be, but pushing him off the high diving board is not my solution to getting someone into AA's proverbial "deep end"

Slow steady, patient, all the time in the world, recognize and reward small improvements.

 

[esclave_PP]

Thank you! These are great opinions. I wanted to add that this girl of mine wasn't a brat...there is questioning and then there is just arguing for the sake of arguing. I think when a person does that, then they are trying to buck authority, but that is just my opinion.

 

[tythisredheadup]

there is questioning and then there is just arguing for the sake of arguing. I think when a person does that, then they are trying to buck authority, but that is just my opinion.

Being new at all this, and not knowing what the fuck I am talking about....

Isn't that half the fun?

 

[esclave_PP]

Not really....at least for me.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Being new at all this, and not knowing what the fuck I am talking about....

Isn't that half the fun?

For most of us, that falls into SAMmie territory, and for a few, quite acceptable.

i wouldn't put anything, but body time into such a relationship, if anything at all.

 

[shy slave]

AA asked what do you mean 'as arguing?'

I may use someof the lines from the 'Things a sub should never say..' but i don't do this in a scene EVER.

Nor do I question Him when He demands something of me.

However if we are discussing something non-BDSM "yes" I do argue with Him if my opinion is in disagreement with his. Sometimes i say things to annoy Him just to get a reaction and tease Him a little. But it is not every day and it is not all the time.

kridina makes a good point about trust. As a pyl I know i want to be owned & submit totally to Him. My vanilla past & present is a difficulty I need to overcome, but to trust someone with your own self takes time and patience on both parts.

kridina also says not sure at what point a pyl becomes needy. I believe that both PYL & pyl have needs that cannot be fulfilled outside this lifestyle (otherwise why do it?).
With that in mind there may well be some pyl's who have a real 'need' to be looked after because they feel they cannot or do not want to function in the vanilla world.
Equally some PYL may have an overpowering 'need' to dominate even at those times when it may not be appropriate for the pyl they are with.

malcah your post gives the impression you have trained slaves for other people before.
Have you only noticed this in slaves that will not be yours full-time?
The reason for the question is that to submit body & soul to an individual is a unique relationship between the PYL & pyl. I
f the pyl is aware this is training for another, ie their partner, they may be like this with you, to gain answers and push bounderies that they may not be able to do once they are returned to their owner.

For example - if a PYL disliked questions on aspects of the structure of the relationship, what is acceptable, why a scene had been structured in a particular way or their level of control
a pyl may feel safer asking and pushing your limits to gain self-awareness/answer/re-learn reactions as the situation with you is controlled and safe, compared with the 'no going back' of the return to thier owner.

Does that make sense?

 

[PrettyKitty427]

i had a master that liked when I argued. He called me a Smart Ass Masochist. or Sammy

 

[esclave_PP]

Originally posted by shy slave

malcah your post gives the impression you have trained slaves for other people before.
Have you only noticed this in slaves that will not be yours full-time?
The reason for the question is that to submit body & soul to an individual is a unique relationship between the PYL & pyl. I
f the pyl is aware this is training for another, ie their partner, they may be like this with you, to gain answers and push bounderies that they may not be able to do once they are returned to their owner.

Does that make sense?

Yes that makes perfect sense. The relationship I have with this person is a little out of the ordinary. She is someone who works for me (eep I know a bit unethical but she did beg) but is also one of my best friends in the world. I know her inside and out and knew this side of her. It bugs her hubby too, so it was one of the things we tried to control.

Yes I have seen this in other slaves I owned as well as trained. Most I trained for my personal use. More often than not when the submissive was acting up they would argue to see if they could get me to punish them, which I personally can't stand. If they don't want to submit, what is the point? At least that is how it is for me when I Domme or sub for that matter.

I hope that answers you Thanks for the great question!

 

[shy slave]

Yes that makes perfect sense. The relationship I have with this person is a little out of the ordinary. She is someone who works for me (eep I know a bit unethical but she did beg) but is also one of my best friends in the world. I know her inside and out and knew this side of her. It bugs her hubby too, so it was one of the things we tried to control.

Yes I have seen this in other slaves I owned as well as trained. Most I trained for my personal use. More often than not when the submissive was acting up they would argue to see if they could get me to punish them, which I personally can't stand. If they don't want to submit, what is the point? At least that is how it is for me when I Domme or sub for that matter.

I hope that answers you Thanks for the great question!

Thanks for explaining.
I don't envy you having a sub to train whois also a friend and workmate !

I agree with you if their behaviour is due to wish to be punished. Never can understand why a D/s relationship can't simply admit that pain is part of the need to give and receive by both parts. It need not be punishment.

AA has said that isolation or banishment are punishments. Perhaps making it clear from the begining that these will be punishments for this behaviour, not a good whipping, will improve things from the beginning with the next sub. Of course you won't know for sure as they not have inteneded to argue with you anyway lol
Thats the problem with sub/slaves they are so damn human lol