When does it become a problem?

[Marquis]

Well, that's what you have to redirect. Redefine "bad." That's how you control your addictions to certain concepts and behaviors.

I've kicked a few nasty addictions on my own terms and it almost always involves redefining your ideas about your addiction and building new thoughts. There are lots of ways to be smart "bad" without being "dumb" bad.

Part of this is biochemistry, without a doubt, and some of it involves completely rebuilding your idea of an experience so it's not as appealing. Stop thinking of the "bad" aspect of being unprotected and replace it with the "bad" aspect of just being so damned in control of yourself that you're just not at risk other than exactly the ways you choose. Find a substitute "bad" and try to resculpt your idea of sexy and exciting around it. I'm not saying that cottage cheese will replace a steak...but having a less risky strategy that you present to yourself as a challenge, in this case, can be a simple substitution.

I fell off the wagon.

 

[rosco rathbone]

When does what become a problem?

 

[Marquis]

Once again, you asked a question that I have been trying to find the answer to since I was old enough to think about it. I also have an incredibly hard time being faithful...I don't like monogomous relationships because of that very thing.

The only thing I have found in the midst of your posting that is different between the 2 of us is that I have periods where sex is such a low priority that I feel almost asexual. Have you ever had that issue or is it a constant thing for you?

My therapist insists that my sex drive is directed by my earlier life experiences (ie rape and molestation) but I find that explanation just a bit too pat. It doesn't explain some of the riskier things i have done, almost without thought..nor does it really explain the high I get when i am at my most sexually predatory.

Anyway, let me know what you find out..because I haven't the foggiest how to fix this particular problem, either. Until then, know that you are in my thoughts..and if you ever want to talk..consider me an ear.

I think I'm going to take off from this topic after this post, but I'll leave it up for anyone else who might be in a position like me and wonder these things.

I don't often feel asexual, I will admit. It does happen at times, but not often. I'm usually at least jerking off.

I think you may be suggesting at psychological or physiological reasons for being addicted to sex, and I think there is a lot there. Being hypersexual is a characteristic of bipolar disorder, and it would make sense that a person who associates happiness with hypomania would associate sex with satisfaction. I don't have any more answers than that.

I will say this though. There are a few of you who posted in this topic that I've spoken to for years. Some that I've just "met". I've always used Lit as a place I could come to talk about the things I couldn't talk about in real life, and get level headed opinions. It's really great to know that the things I can talk about aren't limited to the more exciting aspects of kink.

I appreciate all of you being there for me, sincerely. I'm not big on the PMs, but please know that I appreciate getting this chance to talk and hearing what all of you had to say in return.

 

[Marquis]

When does what become a problem?

You know exactly what, you knave.

No more questions!

 

[Vixandra]

So, are you preaching monogamy throughout?

I can't agree with that. But what is a reasonable number of people to sleep with?

No, not preaching monogamy. I know it doesn't work for a lot of people.

Don't have a problem with any one sleeping with more then one person, being in love with more then one person, etc.

However, its dangerous when you don't know you're partner's current state of health (like a random fuck) and you're engaging in high risk behavior.

Keep a haram of subs, long as you're all clean, its all good. Its when you start fucking around with random women who are going to give you heaven only knows what kind of croch rot that its a problem.
So, my "reasonable number" is the number of people you trust not to bring croch rot to your bed and vice versa.
If its a sexual network of 50 people, go for it.
Its only 3 people, that works too.

 

[RJMasters]

Why? Why do yu do this?

Ever consider that it might be part and parcel with your dominant nature?

As I read your post a few things jump out at me....

"Moreover, I fuck hot girls. Models, cheerleaders, strippers, whatever.... girls that guys want to fuck."

A ruler by any other name still measures. From the movie TinCup Renee Rusoe..."why must men insist on measuring everything with their dicks?" My answer is because part of our nature insists that we do. When your on the basket ball court and you can take it to the hoop like is cool...you can talk smack because you know you got game. This is just a different court and you got the looks, charisma and skills to take it to the hoop where others can't.

But much more importantly, I don't consistently use condoms. In the moment, I often find myself caring more about catching that perfect nut than protecting myself. Of course, immediately afterwards I feel like absolute shit for playing russian roullette with my life any my health.

You don't need a therapist to tell you this...Knock this shit out...and get your shit together my man. You want a group to go to....don't go a sex addiction group...go to a support group of people who got aids or other STDs and sit in on a few sessions with them. Listen to them, listen to how many of them were once just like you...and they would give anything to go back and undo what happened. Perhaps what you need is a "real" dose of reality.

Marquis, you got a great life ahead of you...but let me put it in terms you can understand...I'm 39....you won't make it to see 39 bro...most have a good chance to live to see 70...that's almost half of your life. Half!

I am not playing the scare card here....I'm speaking straight up truth. Its not a matter of "if" its just a matter of "when" and you fucking know it. I'm not gonna coddle you either, and perhaps no one has ever said it to you....so here you go....Be a man. That means no fucking excuses and no exceptions. You either control your fate in the moment or your moment will control your fate.

You want to go see a therapist and talk about the "why" that's cool so maybe you can get a better handle on where your mind's at, but you don't need a therapist to tell you to wear a condom. You got a mind and a will, so use them. No excuses and no exceptions. You can either step up and hang with that, or you can be a walking statistic. Your choice.

 

[incubus'_sub]

Hey, Marquis, get back here.

Bad is part of your persona. It's what makes you you & how you like to see yourself. Nothing wrong with that. Bad & dangerous is hot to most women, as you well know.

Smart is also part of your persona & your smarts are going to take you to success in your field. Taking the time & destroying the mood long enough to use a condom is smart. Condoms annoy everyone, not just you. My guess is that using a condom, or not, is a conscious choice you make each time. When you choose not to, you are being badder than bad, throwing caution to the wind, taking the RISK. Plus you have the added bonus of having to confess to your partner, thereby being bad all over again. Hey, your mind is deliciously wicked, you don't have to get sick just to prove it.

Forget this addiction shit, it's so bloody, well, American ! Frequency is not a problem.

Finding "the one" has nothing to do with monogomy. I'm not one who mistakes sex as love or vice versa. I doubt that you will ever be what used to be called faithful sexually. For some of us that just will never be enough no matter how much we feel for, care for & love our partners. Long term partners just simply don't provide the thrill of the chase, the conquest, or the variety that some of us need. LOL We bad, too.

How did you get this way? You grew up watching your mother struggle constantly against powerful sexual men who probably used her badly in every way (I don't mean that sexually). As much as you hated their power over her (& you) you grew up determined to be the powerful one, the one in control etc. You also absorbed some of the tricks of their trade, couldn't be helped. You also grew up with looks & brains which helps mightily. Underneath the bad boy remains the caring, loving, helpless little boy who now has the determination that is anyone's going to be screwed, it's not going to be him. Just guesses of course. We all have scars from our past. Really, it's who we become & the choices we make as adults that should determine our lives. Stop copping out. You, Marquis, can control anything about yourself that you choose to.

 

[BBWetKitty]

I spend a lot of time thinking about who I am, the decisions I make. How I portray myself and how I let people see me.

Why is it that I even need to be out there like this, putting myself at risk for a few cheap thrills or the chance to connect with some stranger on an oddly personal level?

I feel like this is really taking a negative impact on my life, do I need to go to fucking meetings?

Reading this (before I edited, of course), I believe that you are having sex so you can put reality aside. The pleasure is a distraction for you. You have become dependant on it. If you are going to therapy, I would consider bringing this up. Maybe there is something to it, maybe there isn't. However, if there is, you may be able to deal with what is really driving this behavior and find the balance in life you need. Imagine a life where you can have great sex in non-destructive way and being able to stop worrying about how people think about you!

 

[Netzach]

I haven't even read the replies to this, just saw it.

I'm going to throw this out:

sex is often a litmus for what ELSE is going on in my life. Dig?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I wonder what in my past caused me to be like this. I can remember desiring intimacy very strongly since a very young age. I do ocassionally wonder if I was molested as a young child. I wouldn't even know where to start in figuring out who or how, but when I get very manic I have the irking feeling that I was molested. Then again, I also become very insecure about my sexuality and feel like EVERYONE is trying to fuck me.

LOL, well from things on this board I get the impression more than a few are also!! Seriously though, as to what is in your past, I don't know you well enough in a sense of what that could definately be, but from things you have mentioned on the forum about your relationship with your mother and circumstances surrounding it, your feelings, events etc., perhaps as cliche as it sounds, the key may be somewhere tangled up in there...your comments/questions about monogamy and if C is the one also could tie into that strongly. Keep looking for your 'aha' moment, and things may fall into place.

Catalina

 

[Mr. Mann]

Monogamy is not a natural state. It is a societal creation. Men tend to have such a strong sex drive out of a genetic drive to procreate.

Men generally require sex to feel emotional and psychological intimacy. Phyiscal sex precedes those feelings. Whereas, generally speaking, women tend to require feelings of emotional intimacy in order for their physical sex drives to really kick in. (Speaking VERY generally here, plenty of exceptions across the board.)

Addiction or compulsion? Call it whatever you want.

Sex drive is strongly tied to hormones and brain chemistry, as well.

There could be many components. Perhaps a good amount of testosterone, plus strong genetic drive pushing you to having lots of sex... then some emotional/psychological component pushing you to seek the approval and acceptance of numerous partners who are "picky" and reinforce your narcissism.

Friends are notorious for giving well-intentioned, but poor advice. They don't necesarily know you as well as you want to think. They tend to project themselves on to you and may be less than objective.

Therapists are supposed to remain detached and objective, yet they are human and vulnerable to the same faults as the rest of us. A skilled therapist can be valuable. A bad one can still run a good practice, though never achiveing much actual end result success.

Additionally, when the only tool in your bag is a hammer, all of your problems tend to look like nails. A therapist tends to see therapy solutions. Psychiatrists tend to see pharmacoogical solutions. Surgeons tend to see surgical solutions. Etc. etc.

Considering that sexaully compulsive behavior could involve many different areas ranging from physical, to mental, to emotional... it could be good to get professional opinions from professionals in many fields.

As noted above, the bright line on when it becomes a problem is when the activity begins to be a source of pain instead of pleasure.

The bottom line is that no one does anything that they dont want to do. While you may find cerain behaviors as being something that makes you unhappy... it may partly be because the alternative would make you more unhappy. Perhaps learning how to be alone would also help you rediscover the joy of intimacy?

The human experience is to avoid pain and strive towards pleasure. Much of your journey may come in being aware of what parts of your life involve your moving in which direction. Are you doing these things to seek happiness, or to avoid pain, or some of both?

I hope this helps.

 

[FurryFury]

I never know when you are being serious and when you are trying to provoke "deeper" conversations so I tend to wonder if I should even post on your threads.

If I had an agreement with my husband that we could fuck others as long as certain precautions were taken and he kept fucking that up, I'd want to KICK HIS ASS.

I rather hate condoms and other barrier methods of disease and birth control but if I were playing with others I'd be hard core responsible about it and I'd expect the same from him.

Again, I will say, you are lucky to have such a wonderful lady in your life.

Fury

PS I like the new av very much. You look happy. I like it when folks are happy.

 

[Recidiva]

Monogamy is not a natural state. It is a societal creation. Men tend to have such a strong sex drive out of a genetic drive to procreate.

This here line is the one that trips me up.

Every man I have been involved with, is intensely possessive and doesn't want anybody else touching me. Ever. Nope. No. Don't think it. No.

They propose marriage to bring about that state, since before then I don't take them seriously.

So if guys aren't naturally demanding of monogamy (or otherwise having to know they're "first among obvious unequals, she only keeps them around when I'm not there..")

Why do men keep asking women to marry them?

My husband is a selfish possessive bastard and I have to go along with it. He can keep it in his pants unless I get equal play. He's just jealous 'cause I'd get more. Detente.

So really, monogamy is required through possessiveness and jealousy. It may not be the natural state, but a lot of guys asking for exclusivity just aren't able to think of anyone touching "their" woman.

 

[FurryFury]

This here line is the one that trips me up.

Every man I have been involved with, is intensely possessive and doesn't want anybody else touching me. Ever. Nope. No. Don't think it. No.

They propose marriage to bring about that state, since before then I don't take them seriously.

So if guys aren't naturally demanding of monogamy (or otherwise having to know they're "first among obvious unequals, she only keeps them around when I'm not there..")

Why do men keep asking women to marry them?

My husband is a selfish possessive bastard and I have to go along with it. He can keep it in his pants unless I get equal play. He's just jealous 'cause I'd get more. Detente.

So really, monogamy is required through possessiveness and jealousy. It may not be the natural state, but a lot of guys asking for exclusivity just aren't able to think of anyone touching "their" woman.

LOL!

I agree with that, if they get side dishes, I do too!

Fury

 

[raven2]

This here line is the one that trips me up.

Every man I have been involved with, is intensely possessive and doesn't want anybody else touching me. Ever. Nope. No. Don't think it. No.

They propose marriage to bring about that state, since before then I don't take them seriously.

So if guys aren't naturally demanding of monogamy (or otherwise having to know they're "first among obvious unequals, she only keeps them around when I'm not there..")

Why do men keep asking women to marry them?

My husband is a selfish possessive bastard and I have to go along with it. He can keep it in his pants unless I get equal play. He's just jealous 'cause I'd get more. Detente.

So really, monogamy is required through possessiveness and jealousy. It may not be the natural state, but a lot of guys asking for exclusivity just aren't able to think of anyone touching "their" woman.

Sorry you feel that way, but we are not all extremely possessive. My wife and I have been married for 27 years and we have equal play. In fact, she has had more than me. So it is not everybody who feels that way.

 

[Recidiva]

Sorry you feel that way, but we are not all extremely possessive. My wife and I have been married for 27 years and we have equal play. In fact, she has had more than me. So it is not everybody who feels that way.

I'm not quite sure what you're sorry about, but I don't wish to give the impression that I'm unhappy or it's an argument, it's mostly a funny way of relating experiences with partners through time, condensed.

Sounds like what you have is ideal for both of you and to be applauded.

 

[naughtygirl69s]

Do you enjoy the aspect of being "bad" when you're doing it? That could be harder to shake with discipline than if you're just sloppy.

If being reckless is part of the turn on, that's a different deal than just being caught up in a moment.

Sounds like if you're that deliberate, though, that it's part of the plan, to be reckless and prove to yourself you're beyond control.

ooh, VERY good point.

 

[naughtygirl69s]

Marquis, my young friend,

Having grown up in an addictive household, I am very aware of the pain and destruction an unwanted, uncontrolled addiction can bring into one's life. If you are _asking_ about this, it's because you are already recognizing the negative side-effects in your own life, you are approaching the point where you are ready to make changes to get it under control.

Yes, there are group therapy meetings for sexual addicts. Yes there is councelling available. You may avail yourself of these resources.

Or, you might consider moving to California and getting into the adult film industry, where you could turn your addiction into a money making opportunity...

*grins and shrugs* Unlike alcoholism or drug addiction, this _could_ have a silver (or green!) lining...

Wow, you just reminded me. Marquis is the Epitomy of Dr. Christian Troy.

anybody else seen Nip/Tuck??

 

[naughtygirl69s]

I'm not big on the PMs, but please know that I appreciate getting this chance to talk and hearing what all of you had to say in return.

oops, sorry. Ignore me.

 

[Mr. Mann]

This here line is the one that trips me up.

Every man I have been involved with, is intensely possessive and doesn't want anybody else touching me. Ever. Nope. No. Don't think it. No.

They propose marriage to bring about that state, since before then I don't take them seriously.

So if guys aren't naturally demanding of monogamy (or otherwise having to know they're "first among obvious unequals, she only keeps them around when I'm not there..")

Why do men keep asking women to marry them?

My husband is a selfish possessive bastard and I have to go along with it. He can keep it in his pants unless I get equal play. He's just jealous 'cause I'd get more. Detente.

So really, monogamy is required through possessiveness and jealousy. It may not be the natural state, but a lot of guys asking for exclusivity just aren't able to think of anyone touching "their" woman.

Very generally speaking here... painting with a wide brush for the sake of discussion....

The idea of equitable standards between men and women is also a new thing historically speaking.

Social conventions aside, the male body is deisgned to deposit seed in fertile females. The semen builds up and is designed to be released frequently. The male sex drive is constant.

Women are physically designed to produce only so many eggs in thier lifetime which are released much less frequently than a guy produces sperm. Many women expereince increased libido during the part of their cycle when they are the most fertile.

Generally speaking, women find mature, stable, and powerful men attractive. It is not uncommon for men in ther fifties and sisties to win popular "sexy men" contests.

Conversely, the stereotypical female image that is popular among most men is young and healthy... good for child birth.

I recall a study that showed that men who suspected their women may be having sex with another man actually produce a higher sperm count than they usually do. - Alot of this stuff really exists on a deep involuntary genetic level.

Guys can produce sperm all their lives. Women are only capable of having so many eggs fertilized.

Men are easily aroused to have a strong drive to have sex with numerous partners. Women are less easily aroused, typically, and may seek good genetic donors, but they also seek a primary relationship for protection of her and her children.

Men have a deep need and desire to know that the children they are raising are their own.

In more modern times... men ask women to marry them largely due 1) pressure from the woman, or 2) wanting someone suitable for raising thier children.

Again ....these are GENERALIZATIONS... they aren't 100% in any person at any time.

The main point being that a few hundred years of convention don't negate a few hundred thousand years of evolution, or creation, depending on one's view.

Men and women both are subject to deep physical drives that we are often not even consciously aware of that effect and influence our behavior.

 

[Recidiva]

Very generally speaking here... painting with a wide brush for the sake of discussion....

The idea of equitable standards between men and women is also a new thing historically speaking.

Social conventions aside, the male body is deisgned to deposit seed in fertile females. The semen builds up and is designed to be released frequently. The male sex drive is constant.

Women are physically designed to produce only so many eggs in thier lifetime which are released much less frequently than a guy produces sperm. Many women expereince increased libido during the part of their cycle when they are the most fertile.

Generally speaking, women find mature, stable, and powerful men attractive. It is not uncommon for men in ther fifties and sisties to win popular "sexy men" contests.

Conversely, the stereotypical female image that is popular among most men is young and healthy... good for child birth.

I recall a study that showed that men who suspected their women may be having sex with another man actually produce a higher sperm count than they usually do. - Alot of this stuff really exists on a deep involuntary genetic level.

Guys can produce sperm all their lives. Women are only capable of having so many eggs fertilized.

Men are easily aroused to have a strong drive to have sex with numerous partners. Women are less easily aroused, typically, and may seek good genetic donors, but they also seek a primary relationship for protection of her and her children.

Men have a deep need and desire to know that the children they are raising are their own.

In more modern times... men ask women to marry them largely due 1) pressure from the woman, or 2) wanting someone suitable for raising thier children.

Again ....these are GENERALIZATIONS... they aren't 100% in any person at any time.

The main point being that a few hundred years of convention don't negate a few hundred thousand years of evolution, or creation, depending on one's view.

Men and women both are subject to deep physical drives that we are often not even consciously aware of that effect and influence our behavior.

The trick to being human is to become consciously aware of what you want, what you need, and arrange circumstances so you're responsible for attaining it.

Some people's approach to sex is completely irresponsible. They starve themselves until they snap because they think of it as "optional" and not a need.

Approached as a need, then arranging a steady supply, either through masturbation, fantasy or partners, is reasonable.

The idea that women have a lesser sex drive than men just really cracks me up, mostly because I'm inside this particular body and the view from here is very different from what I "hear", so with my individual drive, I can dismiss that idea.

Anybody justifying their behavior because they have a naturally higher sex drive also doesn't fly with me, mostly because mine's in overdrive and I still manage.

But people who don't feed themselves sex when they need it, are behaving as if eating is an "option" and they don't go shopping or learn how to cook and just stand there starving until they attack a passing person of the desired gender.

I understand biochemistry, but that's what brains are for. To use them to counteract the negative possibilities and bring about the good.

Unfortunately, with too many people associating sex with "sin" and "bad" then they can't have any positive influence on it, they're just going to assume it's always got to be in a dark place.

Too many people being completely irresponsible about their own sex drives and needs results in all the pain and bullshit that doesn't have to take place if you learn to work with your sex drive, and not just use everyone else's existence as a reason to behave badly and in a state of sexual entitlement.

 

[Mr. Mann]

The trick to being human is to become consciously aware of what you want, what you need, and arrange circumstances so you're responsible for attaining it.

Some people's approach to sex is completely irresponsible. They starve themselves until they snap because they think of it as "optional" and not a need.

Approached as a need, then arranging a steady supply, either through masturbation, fantasy or partners, is reasonable.

The idea that women have a lesser sex drive than men just really cracks me up, mostly because I'm inside this particular body and the view from here is very different from what I "hear", so with my individual drive, I can dismiss that idea.

Anybody justifying their behavior because they have a naturally higher sex drive also doesn't fly with me, mostly because mine's in overdrive and I still manage.

But people who don't feed themselves sex when they need it, are behaving as if eating is an "option" and they don't go shopping or learn how to cook and just stand there starving until they attack a passing person of the desired gender.

I understand biochemistry, but that's what brains are for. To use them to counteract the negative possibilities and bring about the good.

Unfortunately, with too many people associating sex with "sin" and "bad" then they can't have any positive influence on it, they're just going to assume it's always got to be in a dark place.

Too many people being completely irresponsible about their own sex drives and needs results in all the pain and bullshit that doesn't have to take place if you learn to work with your sex drive, and not just use everyone else's existence as a reason to behave badly and in a state of sexual entitlement.

Capability of insight and self-awareness are certainly NOT part and parcel of humanity. Most humans are very limited in their capacity for insight and awarness of self, IMNSHO.

I've said quite plainly that these are generalizations and that there are many exceptions. The fact that you are a female who has an active sex drive is not evidence that this exists in all women. Your experiences are not universal. I feel I can safely say that far more men and women identify with the statement that women tend to have much lower sex drives than men. However, that is not to say that there aren't exceptoins to the rule.

I'm doing nothing to justify conscious behavior based on deep genetic drives and urges, just offering context towards understanding. It is not as simple of a matter of choosing based on preference or desire for diversity. Human sexuality is also influenced greatly on genetic and subconscious drives. I believe these are important points to consider in the context of possible sexual compulsion and/or addiction.

Your example of not eating is a good example of conscious controls on a biological need. This can creat serious conflict as evidenced in those who develop eating disorders. Just as with sexual compulsion and addiction, much of the conflict may be between biological needs and drives, emotional/psychological issues, and self-imposed conscious controls.

Simply put; between the id, the ego, the super-ego, genetic predisposition, genetic drives, emotional needs and drives, influence of nurturing, and conscious choices.. there are abundant areas for potential conflict within an individual.

 

[Recidiva]

Capability of insight and self-awareness are certainly NOT part and parcel of humanity. Most humans are very limited in their capacity for insight and awarness of self, IMNSHO.

I've said quite plainly that these are generalizations and that there are many exceptions. The fact that you are a female who has an active sex drive is not evidence that this exists in all women. Your experiences are not universal. I feel I can safely say that far more men and women identify with the statement that women tend to have much lower sex drives than men. However, that is not to say that there aren't exceptoins to the rule.

I'm doing nothing to justify conscious behavior based on deep genetic drives and urges, just offering context towards understanding. It is not as simple of a matter of choosing based on preference or desire for diversity. Human sexuality is also influenced greatly on genetic and subconscious drives. I believe these are important points to consider in the context of possible sexual compulsion and/or addiction.

Your example of not eating is a good example of conscious controls on a biological need. This can creat serious conflict as evidenced in those who develop eating disorders. Just as with sexual compulsion and addiction, much of the conflict may be between biological needs and drives, emotional/psychological issues, and self-imposed conscious controls.

Simply put; between the id, the ego, the super-ego, genetic predisposition, genetic drives, emotional needs and drives, influence of nurturing, and conscious choices.. there are abundant areas for potential conflict within an individual.

This is true, and I agree with what you've written, simply objecting to broad strokes when finer strokes on an individual basis might be more helpful.

Sexual bigotry because you believe a certain stereotype to be true is intellectual laziness. Justifying irresponsible behavior because you think "everyone does it" is the first real sand trap on the way.

I think most people associate sex with the conflicts regarding it, and instead of resolving them and making sex a positive, conscious entity (to extend the analogy, learn how to cook, choose your ingredients, eat what's nutritious and what you know you like) they'll just pounce on the nearest poison and ride it to sickness.

 

[Mr. Mann]

Recidiva, you seem to have an interesting viewpoint and way of approaching things. I enjoy your observations.

True, finer strokes would be more helpful to Marquis. However, broad strokes is the best I can offer for the sake of consideration and discussion here.

Even if I knew Marquis very well, I'm certainly not qualified to offer accurate guidance on the wide variety of rather specialized issues that he is trying to address. I wish I could be of more help to him He seems to be stuck in a quandry. However, from what little I have seen him post, he strikes me as an intelligent, introspective person who is quite capable of insight and self-awreness. I have every faith that his journey will continue to progress, and that he will continue to grow.

I think you are very right that things can inappropriately be used as justification, and partly ego defense. Plus there is a difference in the lies we tell others and the lies we tell ourselves.

I think part of it may be an effort to control, or at least feel like you are in control.

When you really think about it.... it is actually rather scary to admit to one's self that you can be so strongly influenced by drives and processes that you are often not even aware of, let alone understand and control. It's scary to think that sometimes I may do things, or want to do things, largely for reasons totally other than what I may believe.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

"When does it become a problem........"

When you spend more time reading through a Thread about it than actually constituting steps in the direction of positive change with sincerity................ smiles