When a submissive drops

[RJMasters]

It has been a while since I have started any threads and I would like to start this one as I want to learn, or confirm some of my thoughts about the subject of a submissive dropping into subspace. I know there are other threads which talk about this, but in this particular thread, my goal is to look specificly at what or more importantly who causes a submissive to slip into subspace?

I know that not all have experienced this, but many have. I find it interesting that when a submissive is asked about this, they tend to respond with..."Yes, my PLY has taken me to subspace many times." The inference of course is that the Dominant, has such a control over them, being perfectly in-tune with the heart, mind and body of their ply, that boom they drop into subspace during an intense scene.

However, how many times have you as a submissive dropped by a simple touch, like a caress to the cheek or a deep passionate kiss? You know a scene is coming with you and your PLY and inwardly you begin to rev your engine in anticapation. Your emotions are peaking before you even come into their presence or you are there waiting for them to enter. Your heart is racing with excitement, and it doesn't take hardly anything at all, and boom, your gone. I have seen this happen and was wondering if this has happened with anyone else, or something simillar.

This then brings me to my question...how much really depends on the Dominant to do something, for a submissive to slip into subspace? Granted, there is no denying the importance of their involvement as the submissive wouldn't go into subspace at all without them..however from a deeper point of view, what or who is it that allows for this slip into subspace?

I personally think that it lies in the ability of the submissive to let go, and empty themselves, giving themselves completely over to their partner. Of course this level of power exchange can only be done when a deep level of trust exists. As I see it, reguardless of what intensity, the actions of the Dominant are(using a flogger dispensing pain taking them to the threshhold or a simple caress of the hand), ultimately the slide into subspace is done by the submissive as a choice of surrendure and a sign of their absolute trust in the one that allows them to surrendure in such a manner.

I look forward to what you all would have to say.

 

[Shadowsdream]

My two cents

First, good topic, and it is nice to see the same old question being looked at from a different angle.

I believe from My own personal experiences both with submissives dropping for Me and watching those that drop around Me under the hand or aura of other Dominants that the drop cannot occur if the submissives is not tuned into it.

What do I mean?

I can almost see them preparing...adjusting..anticipating...desiring..pulling themselves into a semi hypnotic state. Allowing the fantasy to set up the reality. It is about both letting go and holding on simutaneously.

I do not believe a Dominant no matter how Powerful in persona or aptitude can take a submissive to sub space if that submissive is not drawn forcefully to that particular Dominant through some deep personal need and fantasy.

I have seen submissives drop without any prompt...contact or interraction from a Dominant. Using only their fantasy and anticipation to take them where they can hardly even be touched. I have watched this personal ability to drop alone more times than even I can believe.

Of course I would prefer to think that sub drop could only occur in My arena of Domination through My hand, voice or look but My ego is not so big that I believe it.

 

[RJMasters]

My two cents

First, good topic, and it is nice to see the same old question being looked at from a different angle.

I believe from My own personal experiences both with submissives dropping for Me and watching those that drop around Me under the hand or aura of other Dominants that the drop cannot occur if the submissives is not tuned into it.

What do I mean?

I can almost see them preparing...adjusting..anticipating...desiring..pulling themselves into a semi hypnotic state. Allowing the fantasy to set up the reality. It is about both letting go and holding on simutaneously.

I do not believe a Dominant no matter how Powerful in persona or aptitude can take a submissive to sub space if that submissive is not drawn forcefully to that particular Dominant through some deep personal need and fantasy.

I have seen submissives drop without any prompt...contact or interraction from a Dominant. Using only their fantasy and anticipation to take them where they can hardly even be touched. I have watched this personal ability to drop alone more times than even I can believe.

Of course I would prefer to think that sub drop could only occur in My arena of Domination through My hand, voice or look but My ego is not so big that I believe it.

Takes Shadowsdream's two cents, and gives back 1 million in change. Thanks.

 

[Netzach]

What she said.

I've "dropped" fetishists by getting out their favorite toy.

I've "dropped" clients by telling them to get on their knees.

It's maybe 30% me, 70% reptile-erection-brain at times.

At other times it's just me, and I know it. Like when M, who never licks boots or shoes in public asked to do the buckles of my shoes with his teeth in his zoned-out state. When that thing that's really iffy normally turns really erotic in their mind, I feel like I can take a little credit for some groundwork.

 

[ChasingShadowsX]

RJMasters gotta say ur avatar is really cool man, very creative. Is it u?

 

[kayte]

This is quite an interesting thread, and the topic is not what the title led me to believe.

It is amazing how we can read the same words and interpret them differently.

When I hear the phrase "Sub drop" it brings to mind those awful feelings that can occur after a scene....When aftercare is needed.

Dropping into subspace, I guess I have always experienced it as falling or sliding.... That is how I think of it.

And yes it is an ASC. An Altered State of Consciousness.

What causes me to slip into that. His voice, for one. Even if on the phone. Actually, just thinking about him gets me started. I can feel myself stating to get myself there, just doing this typing. Will it get deep at all, no. I am concentrating on the typing too. But the physical feelings have started....

 

[LadyAndrivete]

Deleted.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Just curious....Why do you refer to it as dropping?

 

[LadyAndrivete]

Deleted.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Dropping or slipping ... either one really defines it well. You can literally feel yourself slipping into another state of consciousness. It isn't reality... and it isn't a dream... The dropping refers to the point that the reality changes and becomes the fantasy intwined with the reality of what's actually happening.

When it occurs, it feels like you're being completely taken over by the experience... thus.. a slip or a drop.

Not sure if I explained it well enough... anyone else care to give it a try? lol

i dont feel the *another state of consciousness* is dropping. I waited to post because i wanted to find a way to explain...but the only words i get are uplifted enlightened and free. That is what subspace makes me feel.
It is sort of a form of meditation...opening your mind...freeing yourself in some way, at least to me. I could get there by myself if i wanted to, but need to feel the safety of a dominant taking me there, someone i trust to ground me when done...bring me back down. So as you can see from the words i use to describe it all...i didnt understand why someone would see it as dropping.

 

[blue kat]

I don't think of it as in percentages, like some above had mentioned. I think that ultimately, it's the pyl who decides when they drop. I don't think any PYL can make a pyl go into subspace. I can roleplay, flog, dance, threaten, intimidate, beat someone to my heart's evil content, but if the pyl doesn't feel right (for lack of a better term), or somehow isn't into it, they're not going to go. I guess my point is, that ultimately, the key to subspace lies within the sub, not the Dom. You can lead a person to subspace, but you can't make them float.

 

[BlueSugar]

It is sort of a form of meditation...opening your mind...freeing yourself in some way, at least to me. I could get there by myself if i wanted to, but need to feel the safety of a dominant taking me there, someone i trust to ground me when done...bring me back down. So as you can see from the words i use to describe it all...i didnt understand why someone would see it as dropping.

I agree.

I see headspace and subdrop as two very different things - by definition I could be wrong, but this is my journey ::raspberries:: this is supposed to be unique... right?

headspace is more of a meditative state of mind

and subdrop is more of your body/mind going into a sort of shock after coming out of headspace wrong - or not going into headspace at all.


as for what it takes for me to get into headspace... as of now, I have to be in the mood really... if I'm not in the mood, I giggle or shrug it off and things hurt alot more then they would, and I get sad or angry and its like He is starting with out me... and it takes me longer to get into my space. I have to be into how we start off, and we have to start slow or I feel almost clumbsy. Sometimes it takes longer then others and then by the time I can take what He gives me, He is almost done.
So our timing needs to be worked on, we're still new, and trying not to rush ... but it doesn't take just one thing,
I'm not at the point where his voice or his simple touch does it for me ... but it will, I'm very responsive once I get started.

 

[NCShin]

I agree.

I see headspace and subdrop as two very different things - by definition I could be wrong, but this is my journey ::raspberries:: this is supposed to be unique... right?

headspace is more of a meditative state of mind

and subdrop is more of your body/mind going into a sort of shock after coming out of headspace wrong - or not going into headspace at all.

I kinda ignored this thread because of this, I thought that subdrop was the drop of endorphins after a sub has been in a prolonged submissive state.

To clearify that a bit, from what I’ve seen read and heard....Subdrop doesn't really have anything to do with HOW the sub came out of subspace, but is a result of his/her glands being on overdrive for so long, and thus depleted.

So the body no longer having the normal levels of whatever chemicals it releases during that time, the sub feels depressed, maybe a longing, a want, or need to have more of it.

So if you think of it in terms of drugs. The body produces these drugs, and releases them at a normal rate most of the time. When the sub gets going, the body releases these drugs in much higher doses until the scene is over.

After the scene is over the body is out of the drug and can not release the normal quantity the body is used to. So the druggy, err sub crashes just like an addict might. Both want more, and might be willing to do more and more to get that high.

 

[BlueSugar]

To clearify that a bit, from what I’ve seen read and heard....Subdrop doesn't really have anything to do with HOW the sub came out of subspace, but is a result of his/her glands being on overdrive for so long, and thus depleted.

So the body no longer having the normal levels of whatever chemicals it releases during that time, the sub feels depressed, maybe a longing, a want, or need to have more of it.

which is what i wanted to say, but didn't know how to say it. I'm pretty knew to the scene and I supposed I've only dropped about a handful of times or so. My word useage is a little off, but I knew there was a clear difference between it all. I hate to come off as I did.
It felt as my body/mind was in a shocked state bc of all the endorphins and it felt wrong compared to the elevated sence of mind/body that I had in "headspace" ... so it just felt as if something wrong happened - yet it was more natural then that, and couldn't put my finger on it.

 

[RJMasters]

Mistaken title

I can see where the title is a bit mis-leading, and for that I am sorry.

Sub drop is of course used to describe the crash and emotional depression that occurs because of the chemical imbalance.

I think that sometimes this is also a part of the phenomenom of new mothers suffering post-partum(sp) blues. The depression is often a result of certain chemicals used up during the birth, and can take days even weeks before their system gets back to normal. (just a thought)

However, a poor choice of title aside...

I think from those who answered, they have confiirmed my understanding, that it is the submissive which makes the choice to go into subspace/headspace.

I think an obsevant Dom/mes can learn or know what will effect a submissive, to encourage this choice by controling the circumstances surrounding this choice.

That said, have any of you ever be annoyed or fustrated when a sub chooses to go into subspace, and you have other plans? Do you continue the scene even though they are in subspace? Do you stop and bring them back out so they are fully coherent?

 

[AngelicAssassin]

My two cents ... I do not believe a Dominant no matter how Powerful in persona or aptitude can take a submissive to sub space if that submissive is not drawn forcefully to that particular Dominant through some deep personal need and fantasy.

Rolling my
http://www.leatherbeltsbyskip.com/inventory/nickel-belts/nickel-belt.jpg
in along with this opinion.

But how powerful that click is when it happens.

 

[RJMasters]

RJMasters gotta say ur avatar is really cool man, very creative. Is it u?

Sorry about the delayed response ChasingShadowsX. In answer to your question, no the cowboy av isn't me, though I do own a Stenson. It does reflect me in alot of ways.

I use to ride rodeo in my younger years a tad when I was in the Marines. I rode bulls of course as it was the most dangerious and fun. My rodeo days ended when I had a disagreement with a bull named KansasCity99. Seems he wanted to keep my lock arm as a souviner(sp)(got hung up and wouldn't release, clown had to save my ass). Decided there-after I might want to use my arm and shoulder for something more useful someday and hung up my spurs.(well at least for riding bulls heehee)

(I will put my real AV up for a day or so, though its prolly not as cool as the cowboy looking one grinz).

 

[oblivia]

Subspace... slavespace...

wow... my thoughts on this are so many, and varied. I've experienced this in many different ways, each profound and unique.

But it comes down to first, obviously, trust.

And beyond that, a chemistry, a connection of a sort that is not easy to find.

But I agree that it is the sub, ultimately who does it, who makes subspace happen. At least in my experience.

I would describe it as follows.

There comes a moment when I let go, when I release my need to know what's going on when and how. It's the moment when I release conscious, logical thought and allow myself to be in the moment, to surrender to Him completely. That moment, feels (like someone else described) a bit like flying, like being free. I am focused on Him completely and I float. It is light, it is carefree, and very emotional. When I am in this space, it feels I am linked to Him in a way that is profoundy deep. I truly believe there is a spiritual link that takes place when I hit that space.

I have two levels and I describe them as subspace, and the even deeper "slavespace".

Sometimes, it takes only a look, sometimes a touch, sometimes a word, and sometimes none of the above...

Always,
oblivia

 

[catalina_francisco]

Have to agree again oblivia ('tis becoming a habit!! )...I think it must be to a huge degree in the control of a sub/slave as to whether they go there or not. I know for us he expressed early on he was not a lover of subspace or any method which allowed me to transcend that which he wished me to feel 100%, that being the pain he would deliver. He is a sadist to the extreme and hates the idea I might be able to escape (or process differently to his intention) some of the sensations by going into a place where it no longer is as painful as he intends. I have never been there to date, though I do feel a bond with him unlike with anyone else, and which is present at all times. We do have an issue with me getting to a point where I begin laughing from the pain...very disturbing for a sadist ....and I also seem very difficult to mark with any lasting effect these days, but I do feel every stroke and squeeze in the way he wishes. BTW, I actually had a thread on here about slavespace (https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=209497) which had some interesting thoughts in it and came from an article which discussed the differentiation between subspace and slavespace.

Catalina

 

[NRGIZD]

That said, have any of you ever be annoyed or fustrated when a sub chooses to go into subspace, and you have other plans? Do you continue the scene even though they are in subspace? Do you stop and bring them back out so they are fully coherent?

My question is along the same train of thought as RJMasters. But to add to it. When can you as a PYL tell when you pyl is in the process of slipping into subspace? and is that where you get frustrated or annoyed?? And as RJMasters asked, do you continue with the scene anyway???

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Mistaken title

That said, have any of you ever be annoyed or fustrated when a sub chooses to go into subspace, and you have other plans? Do you continue the scene even though they are in subspace? Do you stop and bring them back out so they are fully coherent?

I daresay if I began to go there he would lose interest very quickly, not to mention become extremely frustrated and discouraged. He has had subs in the past who went into subspace (and interestingly he did not share a close bond with them) and he didn't see it as attractive or productive for him in anyway for them to be in that dissassociated type state. Suits me fine as I want to feel every sensation as it is delivered and be able to show my appreciation. I am much more in favour of slavespace (referenced earlier in the thread but just found the article has moved so have changed the link) as it allows the focus to be on the Dominant and their needs.

Catalina