What's your quick-fix solution?

[Recidiva]

Well, I should certainly hope that a "substantial number" of Americans think slavery is bad, and that we should love our neighbours...if not then the country is doomed.

The judge not I am not so sure about, if this forum is any indication.

I believe the Bible actually condones slavery.

I am not saying that there are not good people out there who do good work on behalf of religions. Of course there are. However, there are probably an equal number of horrible atrocities that have been committed in the name of God (whichever God you happen to believe in) as there has been good.

Why do we need religion to be good, and be kind and try to help our fellow man? Can we not be decent folks without the promise of heavenly reward? Can we not be kind because it is the right thing to do, not because God told us we must?

The Old Testament condones a lot of stupid bullshit. The words of Jesus are transformative and are valued higher.

I don't believe Jesus was the son of God, but I think he was a damned smart man and if he says something smart, I should listen. I take the good and toss the bad.

We don't need religion to be good. But if it helps people think through why the concept of judgment, by God or other human beings, is of value with stories and examples and inspiration, then I'm with it.

I know that "no good deed goes unpunished" and I'm willing to do good anyway. I don't need a pretend bribe or a cookie from something imaginary. But if someone needs that and they're good as a result, I am not complaining.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Remove religion from society.

Agreed.

 

[Aphro]

This is how most women here choose to defend themselves- no self-defense classes, or mace or anything- just make sure you have a guy with you.

I guess this works out fine as long as you can A) trust your "guy" isn't going to rape you himself and B) he knows how to fight.

Once, many years ago, I was grabbed on the street as I came up from the subway. A drunk guy tried to rip my purse off my arm, but it was caught and he was pulling my freaking arm half off. Now, as it happened, I had fell injured my ankle the week before, and was using a cane to help me walk.

Without thinking, I took the cane, and smacked buddy in the head with it. He let go my purse and took off like a bat out of hell. To this day, I think I should have kept carrying that old lady cane around with me...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

This would be my pick, too.



That's the problem...everyone is operating on the hope that there is "something better" coming along after our toes curl up and we get planted. What exactly, I am not sure...floating in the clouds with Jesus and St. Peter if you are Christian, or banging the 72 virgins if you are Muslim?

(I wonder, what do the Muslim women get...not virgins...maybe just freedom from the oppressive men?)

Maybe if we eliminate the hope of the "something better", people will start actually appreciating this world, and what we have in the here and now, and stop living their lives waiting to die in order to get to the "something better".

Sometimes you blabber like a fool.

Antibiotics have been around since the 40s. Many vaccines came along in the 50s. Cancer was a death warrant when I was a kid. So dweebs like you have no fucking idea what its like to be hopeless, and prayer is your only refuge.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Dum is forever.

 

[Aphro]

The Old Testament condones a lot of stupid bullshit. The words of Jesus are transformative and are valued higher.

I don't believe Jesus was the son of God, but I think he was a damned smart man and if he says something smart, I should listen. I take the good and toss the bad.

We don't need religion to be good. But if it helps people think through why the concept of judgment, by God or other human beings, is of value with stories and examples and inspiration, then I'm with it.

I know that "no good deed goes unpunished" and I'm willing to do good anyway. I don't need a pretend bribe or a cookie from something imaginary. But if someone needs that and they're good as a result, I am not complaining.

I do believe in the historical figure of Jesus, yes. I don't believe in immaculate conception or any of that, or, like you, that he was the son of God, but yes, I believe there was a man who tried to help people to do good with their lives.

It seems we must agree to disagree on many items pertaining to religion and it's intrinsic benefits to society. However, where we can agree is that if it helps stop those who would otherwise run around like animals looting and killing, then yeah, it's a great thing indeed.

 

[Aphro]

Sometimes you blabber like a fool.

Antibiotics have been around since the 40s. Many vaccines came along in the 50s. Cancer was a death warrant when I was a kid. So dweebs like you have no fucking idea what its like to be hopeless, and prayer is your only refuge.

What the FUCK are you even talking about? Antibiotics? Where did you pull that from?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Its for hope you stupid bitch.

 

[Recidiva]

Sometimes you blabber like a fool.

Antibiotics have been around since the 40s. Many vaccines came along in the 50s. Cancer was a death warrant when I was a kid. So dweebs like you have no fucking idea what its like to be hopeless, and prayer is your only refuge.

Jesus spoke to the poor and the illiterate. He spoke to them as if they were children, giving them stories they could understand.

I think he got the gist of the whole thing but couldn't speak in lofty terms, but in the power of parable.

It's good advice. Later in life after the childish, simple reasoning, you can think it through and learn the ropes and find the shape of the Universe and you do your own thing.

But everybody needs an introduction to the idea of morality and the lizard brain of a child has to evolve from caution to exploration to understanding in adulthood.

The road map is there. If some people never progress from caution, that doesn't mean the map's wrong.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Jesus spoke to the poor and the illiterate. He spoke to them as if they were children, giving them stories they could understand.

I think he got the gist of the whole thing but couldn't speak in lofty terms, but in the power of parable.

It's good advice. Later in life after the childish, simple reasoning, you can think it through and learn the ropes and find the shape of the Universe and you do your own thing.

But everybody needs an introduction to the idea of morality and the lizard brain of a child has to evolve from caution to exploration to understanding in adulthood.

The road map is there. If some people never progress from caution, that doesn't mean the map's wrong.

I don't care for Jesus myself but principles of good conduct, like not killing and not stealing and taking care of each other are not evil, as dum fuck suggests.

 

[Aphro]

Its for hope you stupid bitch.

And here we have a prime example of the good Christian. Excellent. Can you not have a discussion without turning it into a personal attack?

I don't know what you hope to accomplish by keep goading me, JBJ. Whatever it is, it is not working.

 

[Recidiva]

I do believe in the historical figure of Jesus, yes. I don't believe in immaculate conception or any of that, or, like you, that he was the son of God, but yes, I believe there was a man who tried to help people to do good with their lives.

It seems we must agree to disagree on many items pertaining to religion and it's intrinsic benefits to society. However, where we can agree is that if it helps stop those who would otherwise run around like animals looting and killing, then yeah, it's a great thing indeed.

Jesus said stuff like that. Things like "God knows what is in the hearts of other men and you don't, so don't go all medieval on their asses." (paraphrase of a parable)

Jesus also encapsulated in that, the fact that wrath is a bad thing and infects a human being, so don't do it.

I realize in a practical sense that I must judge, and I must make judgment calls all the time.

However, I have a sense of humility regarding the challenges and deficits in other people's hearts, and I do not go with wrath as my main tool. I believe that there's evil in the world, I believe that Capital punishment is sometimes a good idea. I believe I MUST judge. But along with that I am not vengeful. I don't want torture or more pain. I would like the vileness to stop, but I won't be carried into wrath.

Let's be real, without that tempering thought, I'd be a great more righteously vengeful, because anger and hate are powerful things and they can carry you along in righteous awesomeness by sheer blood chemistry power. At least my brain does.

Gotta give it to the guy. I have read the Bible myself, whole thing. Good stuff in there.

Yes, other people figured it out in more detail later, but Jesus made it real and Jesus's words have true power, no matter how many people fuck it up. Lots of people get it right.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

And here we have a prime example of the good Christian. Excellent. Can you not have a discussion without turning it into a personal attack?

I don't know what you hope to accomplish by keep goading me, JBJ. Whatever it is, it is not working.

I'm not a Christian, dimwit. Something else you don't know shit about.

 

[Recidiva]

I don't care for Jesus myself but principles of good conduct, like not killing and not stealing and taking care of each other are not evil, as dum fuck suggests.

If it seems childish and archaic to people now, it's because it was catastrophically successful and people think it has or held no social or historical benefit, because it's everywhere so they can't imagine anything else, like infanticide, slavery and subjugation of the weak as a matter of course.

"What polio, there's no polio. Why is everyone afraid of polio. That's silly and holds no value in current society."

Because we've all been vaccinated. We're soaking in it.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Jesus said stuff like that. Things like "God knows what is in the hearts of other men and you don't, so don't go all medieval on their asses." (paraphrase of a parable)

Jesus also encapsulated in that, the fact that wrath is a bad thing and infects a human being, so don't do it.

I realize in a practical sense that I must judge, and I must make judgment calls all the time.

However, I have a sense of humility regarding the challenges and deficits in other people's hearts, and I do not go with wrath as my main tool. I believe that there's evil in the world, I believe that Capital punishment is sometimes a good idea. I believe I MUST judge. But along with that I am not vengeful. I don't want torture or more pain. I would like the vileness to stop, but I won't be carried into wrath.

Let's be real, without that tempering thought, I'd be a great more righteously vengeful, because anger and hate are powerful things and they can carry you along in righteous awesomeness by sheer blood chemistry power. At least my brain does.

Gotta give it to the guy. I have read the Bible myself, whole thing. Good stuff in there.

Yes, other people figured it out in more detail later, but Jesus made it real and Jesus's words have true power, no matter how many people fuck it up. Lots of people get it right.

But some things are right, and theyre right regardless of whether Jesus advocated for them or the idea came from cummy mouth of Saint Faggot of San Francisco.

 

[subdued_passion]

I guess this works out fine as long as you can A) trust your "guy" isn't going to rape you himself and B) he knows how to fight.

Once, many years ago, I was grabbed on the street as I came up from the subway. A drunk guy tried to rip my purse off my arm, but it was caught and he was pulling my freaking arm half off. Now, as it happened, I had fell injured my ankle the week before, and was using a cane to help me walk.

Without thinking, I took the cane, and smacked buddy in the head with it. He let go my purse and took off like a bat out of hell. To this day, I think I should have kept carrying that old lady cane around with me...

I agree with your viewpoint. The point I was trying to make to 4rest was how here women here rely on external means for their defense. I couldn't bring myself to carry a gun, and I'm a pretty tough nut. I can't imagine the others doing it.


BTW, I often carry a grandfather umbrella (people find me eccentric) which is a pain to carry around but is a pretty handy weapon.

 

[SigmundFraud]

Muslims

KILL EM ALL

Great minds think alike.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

If it seems childish and archaic to people now, it's because it was catastrophically successful and people think it has or held no social or historical benefit, because it's everywhere so they can't imagine anything else, like infanticide, slavery and subjugation of the weak as a matter of course.

"What polio, there's no polio. Why is everyone afraid of polio. That's silly and holds no value in current society."

Because we've all been vaccinated. We're soaking in it.

Exactly. They see the stuffed bears at the museum and feel no fear. But I saw the tail end of the Old Times, and how cancer or diabetes or pneumonia destroyed lives and homes.

 

[subdued_passion]

In the 1700s the East India Tea Company got its claws into India then conquered America via loans and gifts and bribes to the British Royals and Parliament. In America the Tea Company controlled all commerce and competed directly against its customers. Americans couldnt compete against a monopoly that controlled the money, imports, exports, transportation, etc. So we started smuggling and using Spanish silver for trade. The Tea Company brought in soldiers and the navy to suppress the smuggling, and prevailed upon Parliament to levy taxes to pay for the military. So we went to war to exterminate the Tea Company.

The new Tea Party wants to extinguish the same influence on Congress and the Government.

^Winner!!!


JBJ, you are one helluva entertainer. I bet more people would enjoy reading history books if people like you wrote them.

 

[beetlebum]

happy hour prices all day long!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

^Winner!!!


JBJ, you are one helluva entertainer. I bet more people would enjoy reading history books if people like you wrote them.

I'm a real scholar. People pay me to find the lost treasures of the pirates.

 

[subdued_passion]

happy hour prices all day long!

What world problem would that solve?

 

[Aphro]

Jesus said stuff like that. Things like "God knows what is in the hearts of other men and you don't, so don't go all medieval on their asses." (paraphrase of a parable)

Jesus also encapsulated in that, the fact that wrath is a bad thing and infects a human being, so don't do it.

I realize in a practical sense that I must judge, and I must make judgment calls all the time.

However, I have a sense of humility regarding the challenges and deficits in other people's hearts, and I do not go with wrath as my main tool. I believe that there's evil in the world, I believe that Capital punishment is sometimes a good idea. I believe I MUST judge. But along with that I am not vengeful. I don't want torture or more pain. I would like the vileness to stop, but I won't be carried into wrath.

Let's be real, without that tempering thought, I'd be a great more righteously vengeful, because anger and hate are powerful things and they can carry you along in righteous awesomeness by sheer blood chemistry power. At least my brain does.

Gotta give it to the guy. I have read the Bible myself, whole thing. Good stuff in there.

Yes, other people figured it out in more detail later, but Jesus made it real and Jesus's words have true power, no matter how many people fuck it up. Lots of people get it right.

You know what, Recidiva, if people get comfort and help from their religion, then I say, good on ya. I know people who are basically very weak, and who, if not for their belief in God, would not be able to even get through their lives day to day. They need the comfort that having a loving God watching over them brings, and who am I to deny that to someone who needs it. If it helps folks, great. If praying makes you feel like you are doing something, awesomeness.

Where it bothers me is when people use religion and the bible to hate on others. To shame them and try to impose their beliefs on others. Like the whole Westborough Bible Chapel shitheads. That to me is just using the veil of Jesus to justify hate. Not cool. Or the whole "my religion is better than your religion" stuff. As long as whatever you choose to believe in helps you live a good, useful, productive life, and you don't go hurting others in the process, then I don't care if you worship dung beetles, really.

 

[beetlebum]

What world problem would that solve?

overpriced drinks.

 

[subdued_passion]

overpriced drinks.

I agree.