What's good for the goose is good for the gander

[Moanique]

I actually prefer to piss in Rice Krispies, I like the loud bitching crackling sounds that covers LT's whimpers when I do.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Somehow, someway, in some alternate universe of kink and libidinous, free-flying-freak, the thought of Moist Mary and Moanique pissing in a bowl of Cheerios isn't that altogether unwholesome...

...uhhh...just as long as they're Honey Nut Cheerios to dampen the saltiness a tad!

Thank goodness. A voice of sense and reason.

 

[Javagirl]

I actually prefer to piss in Rice Krispies, I like the loud bitching crackling sounds that covers LT's whimpers when I do.

Actually, I thought you and MM were going to hand LT his balls on a silver platter? He loves to be verbally castrated by strong-minded, intelligent women. He welcomes it.

 

[Moanique]

Actually, I thought you and MM were going to hand LT his balls on a silver platter? He loves to be verbally castrated by strong-minded, intelligent women. He welcomes it.

Oh shit, is that what we were supposed to do?! UH... Ooooops.
We sorta thought these ugly shriveled things were so useless there was no point in cluttering a perfectly lovely silver platter with them, you know... So, uh, we...

... Put them in the microwave on HIGH for 90 minutes. They're gone.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Ok. So against my better judgment (please no PMs), I feel a need to respond to this thread since it appears it was made on my behalf or in response to a previous exchange between LJ and myself. I am, after all, named in the opening post.

I will not go so far as to suggest this thread title is 'hostile' but I can easily understand if others see it as so. What I will say is that this is not the best title or opening post (IMO) for what COULD be an interesting subject to discuss. I gather this is in response to another subject that touched on the idea of perceived unequal expectations of each gender.

Were it me, I might suggest a different title and tone if you REALLY want to discuss such a subject in a civil manner. I might suggest the following:

Do you see different expectations and perceptions for men and women? Is one gender generally given a free pass at the expense of the other? Or do these inequalities offset each other? Discuss.

I certainly see one gender being given a free pass at the expense of the other.

Here's how it works.

A guy who goes out to date has to bring tons of confidence, a healthy amount of looks, humor and a lack of emotional baggage, in order to attract a woman.

A woman can bring a huge self esteem problem, be big as hell and have more baggage than the air traffic safety cops could check in a year, and still get a guy.

In light of this hypocrisy I find it laughable that anyone would say with a straight face that women have it as bad in the dating scene as men (since this thread was inspired by the nice guys thread).

Go outside dressed provocatively and see how long it takes to be hit on. I dare you. Then come back and tell me how bad y'all have it. Oh, boo hoo. A guy would cut off his right arm to get the female attention of the kind you'd get from guys if you did that.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Thank you once again, LJ, for confusing the concepts of "one night stands" / "offers of random casual sex" with "pleasant dating experience," and of course for giving us a window into that strange little planet that you call home.

I've seen men and women of every imaginable shape, size, and disability find and fail to find what they're looking for on the dating scene. Their rates of success have been roughly equal and on the whole better than one might guess considering that so many of them are looking for very different things. The single most common quality I've noted in the successful ones hasn't been their genders, but their attitudes.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Actually, I thought you and MM were going to hand LT his balls on a silver platter? He loves to be verbally castrated by strong-minded, intelligent women. He welcomes it.

It's funny how you spend all day obsessing over me. Perhaps that's because you couldn't cut anyone's balls off you shriveled twat trolls. Hell, between you and Moanique, you couldn't cut hot butter with a lightsaber. If your track record with me is any indication you'd probably wind up slicing yourselves in half.

Stupid retards. You oppose equal treatment for men because you're a bunch of weak little wanna-be princesses who could never survive in this world on an even playing field. You NEED female privilege to avoid being run over by life.

You and Moanique would be homeless and pushing shopping carts if it weren't for some man supporting you. Strong? Intelligent? Strong smelling, perhaps, but you're not even intelligent when measured against a cockroach.

Oh, I said cock. Time for a few more of your old, boring, recycled dickless jokes! It's the only thing you harpies can come up with!

 

[BlackShanglan]

Now he's happy. It's good to see LJ enjoying himself.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Still, I would never tell you to shut up and deal the way they tell guys.

Thank heaven for that.

I'm sick of listening to women whine. Shut the fuck up like we have to. Deal with it or slit your fucking wrists if a good man is so fucking hard to find. Bite me. Really. Bite me.

 

[Moanique]

It's funny how you spend all day obsessing over me. Perhaps that's because you couldn't cut anyone's balls off you shriveled twat trolls. Hell, between you and Moanique, you couldn't cut hot butter with a lightsaber. If your track record with me is any indication you'd probably wind up slicing yourselves in half.

Stupid retards. You oppose equal treatment for men because you're a bunch of weak little wanna-be princesses who could never survive in this world on an even playing field. You NEED female privilege to avoid being run over by life.

You and Moanique would be homeless and pushing shopping carts if it weren't for some man supporting you. Strong? Intelligent? Strong smelling, perhaps, but you're not even intelligent when measured against a cockroach.

Oh, I said cock. Time for a few more of your old, boring, recycled dickless jokes! It's the only thing you harpies can come up with!

LT is having a massive inferiority complex, here, LOL. Hehe.

 

[thesorrow07]

Yeah, that piss in his Cheerios was Moist Mary and Moanique. Once again, he's going off on a lame tangent.

That tangent being LJ insulting me, and SeanH taking any and all chances to bash me. Good to see that the chain ain't broke. After all, this thread is the peak of high thought.

 

[BlackShanglan]

The phrase has been more commonly heard as "Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander", and earliest records show it in this form.

It refers to the dressing applied to the birds after they have been prepared for eating ...

Now I'm hungry and I'm craving goose.

 

[Moist_Mary]

I certainly see one gender being given a free pass at the expense of the other.

Here's how it works.

A guy who goes out to date has to bring tons of confidence, a healthy amount of looks, humor and a lack of emotional baggage, in order to attract a woman.

A woman can bring a huge self esteem problem, be big as hell and have more baggage than the air traffic safety cops could check in a year, and still get a guy.

In light of this hypocrisy I find it laughable that anyone would say with a straight face that women have it as bad in the dating scene as men (since this thread was inspired by the nice guys thread).

Go outside dressed provocatively and see how long it takes to be hit on. I dare you. Then come back and tell me how bad y'all have it. Oh, boo hoo. A guy would cut off his right arm to get the female attention of the kind you'd get from guys if you did that.

As long as we are using GROSS generalizations, I hope you don't mind if I offer a rebuttal. And as long as you are going to focus on extremes, I will assume I am allowed the same, over the top accusations about men.

Let's talk about that which you claim all men must have. Must have for what exactly, I am not real clear, but I will assume for a moment we are simply talking about introductions since that is the frame of reference you offer. 1) Confidence? If you mean the 'courage' to actually smile and say hello or engage a woman in conversation, then yeah, we can pretty demanding that way. Funny how you men can walk up to a stranger (i.e. other man) in a bar and immediately break into discussion of zone reads or the NBA draft. Or how about the conversations men actually admit to having in the bathrooms in public. Standing there with your dicks in your hands, you talk to complete strangers about the most trivial of subjects. But heaven forbid, you be encouraged to speak to a woman. 2) A healthy amount of looks? Once again, we women can be a finicky lot. It's bad enough that we make exceptions for you throwing on dirty, wrinkled clothes fresh off the floor. But is it really overly demanding to expect you to take a bath. Or heaven forbid, actually wash your hair? I don't have time to go into the fineries of personal hygiene including trimming nose hair, brushing your teeth, washing your hands and trimming your fingernails. these are the things we can see from across the room. 3) Humor? Once again, we obviously expect a lot if we expect a man to HAVE a sense of humor beyond high school bathroom wall jokes. 4) Emotional Baggage? You mean like looking for a quick mindless fuck you don't even have to buy a drink? Or are we talking about mommy's boys who want someone to fuck like a whore but pick up your dirty socks in the morning and wash the racing strips out of your shorts?

Now onto your view of the picture perfect woman's world. Women are allowed to have baggage? You mean like continually being judged from across the room if you are a good fuck? Or if you will put out? Or are you speaking of actually trying to show some minimal level of interest in a man? Yep, we can be real pushy that way. Be big as hell? Ummm ok. Yeah that works if the place is empty. And you are not palling around with a friend that is taller, more blonde, thinner, bigger breasts, etc. Maybe you haven't noticed when the larger of two women sits all alone while man after man after man asks her more attractive friend to dance. Ask yourself another question. How many times do people say, look at that dork with that beautiful woman vs. look at the pig with that handsome stud? Men are FAR more likely to judge harshly based on looks than women are of men. This is a non argument. Baggage? Oh, I assume you mean like hoping we get treated with some semblance of respect and kindness and to just some disposable cum rag?

Hypocricy in the dating scene? How much are we expected to spend on clothes compared to men? Make-up? How are often are men raped? Stalked? dumped if they don't fuck on the first date. Or immediately after if they do? I'm guessing you don't get all stressed out if you don't get called back. Ever.

So if I go outside in cum fuck me heels, a mini skirt and tank top with my tits spilling out all over, and get hit on, THAT is your version of women having it so good? It's too bad all a man has to do is show a little kindness and interest and his own self respect. Too bad indeed. For us.

 

[thesorrow07]

Ouch. That last post made my ears bleed.

 

[Moist_Mary]

Ouch. That last post made my ears bleed.

Just to be clear.

THAT post was NOT about how women have it so bad. It was merely a rebuttal to an over the top generalization that does not come close to holding water.

 

[phrodeau]

Just to be clear.

THAT post was NOT about how women have it so bad. It was merely a rebuttal to an over the top generalization that does not come close to holding water.

Now you're talking in Le Jerque's language.

Let's see if he comprehends it.

 

[thesorrow07]

Just to be clear.

THAT post was NOT about how women have it so bad. It was merely a rebuttal to an over the top generalization that does not come close to holding water.

He's chock full of those. I wondered why most everyone dislikes or hates LT/LJ, but I don't wonder now.

 

[Moist_Mary]

Now you're talking in Le Jerque's language.

Let's see if he comprehends it.

He's chock full of those. I wondered why most everyone dislikes or hates LT/LJ, but I don't wonder now.

I am NOT looking for any medal or badge of honor/stupidity.

I am simply curious about some subjects and imagine they could actually turn into thought provoking discussions. Yet time and time again (hey, I'm still a newbie I guess), I am confronted with outlandish outbursts fraught with emotion and extreme positions. That's before it degenerates into cussing and name calling.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Just to be clear.

THAT post was NOT about how women have it so bad. It was merely a rebuttal to an over the top generalization that does not come close to holding water.

Quid pro quo, I thought, and nicely written.

 

[thesorrow07]

I am NOT looking for any medal or badge of honor/stupidity.

I am simply curious about some subjects and imagine they could actually turn into thought provoking discussions. Yet time and time again (hey, I'm still a newbie I guess), I am confronted with outlandish outbursts fraught with emotion and extreme positions. That's before it degenerates into cussing and name calling.

Outlandish outbursts and name-calling are Le Jerkoff's bread and butter. Don't sweat it. I had him on Ignore until recently, and I find it entertaining when he flies off the handle.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

As long as we are using GROSS generalizations, I hope you don't mind if I offer a rebuttal. And as long as you are going to focus on extremes, I will assume I am allowed the same, over the top accusations about men.

Let's talk about that which you claim all men must have. Must have for what exactly, I am not real clear, but I will assume for a moment we are simply talking about introductions since that is the frame of reference you offer. 1) Confidence? If you mean the 'courage' to actually smile and say hello or engage a woman in conversation, then yeah, we can pretty demanding that way.

You don't even have to muster up that much courage. Only guys are stuck with that burden.

Funny how you men can walk up to a stranger (i.e. other man) in a bar and immediately break into discussion of zone reads or the NBA draft.

Yeah, we don't have to worry about being verbally flamed to a crisp either. Sometimes, on the wrong night, just saying 'hello' to a woman can get your face blasted off by the retaliatory vitriol as if you'd told her "nice shoes, wanna fuck?"

Or how about the conversations men actually admit to having in the bathrooms in public. Standing there with your dicks in your hands, you talk to complete strangers about the most trivial of subjects. But heaven forbid, you be encouraged to speak to a woman.

Ayup. Why can't you women muster the guts to go talk to a guy? Why is it always OUR DUTY to come talk to you? Hmmmm?

2) A healthy amount of looks? Once again, we women can be a finicky lot. It's bad enough that we make exceptions for you throwing on dirty, wrinkled clothes fresh off the floor.

LOL most guys aren't that sloppy and you know it. Sometimes the very face a guy is born with can put him out of the running. I mean, really, how many women perve over Danny Devito?

But is it really overly demanding to expect you to take a bath. Or heaven forbid, actually wash your hair? I don't have time to go into the fineries of personal hygiene including trimming nose hair, brushing your teeth, washing your hands and trimming your fingernails. these are the things we can see from across the room.

LOL. And most guys don't bathe, trim nose hair or brush their teeth? Please. The issue is cosmetic looks, not hygiene.

3) Humor? Once again, we obviously expect a lot if we expect a man to HAVE a sense of humor beyond high school bathroom wall jokes.

Yeah, I gotta admit, some guys have dry wit. But who cares whether you as a woman have wit or not? We guys are forgiving that way.

4) Emotional Baggage? You mean like looking for a quick mindless fuck you don't even have to buy a drink? Or are we talking about mommy's boys who want someone to fuck like a whore but pick up your dirty socks in the morning and wash the racing strips out of your shorts?

We're talking emotional baggage like "argh, all men are PIGS, I say, my last boyfriend blah blah blah oh where did all the good men go yada yada".

And while you're on about momma's boys, don't get me started about daddy's girls. Daddy's girls should be hypnotized into standing on their own two feet like men have to do.

Now onto your view of the picture perfect woman's world. Women are allowed to have baggage? You mean like continually being judged from across the room if you are a good fuck? Or if you will put out?

Aw fucking hell's bells, Moist Mary. If you know of a country where women normally judge men across the room on whether they'll put out, do tell. Half the men in America will emigrate there in a year.

Or are you speaking of actually trying to show some minimal level of interest in a man? Yep, we can be real pushy that way. Be big as hell? Ummm ok. Yeah that works if the place is empty. And you are not palling around with a friend that is taller, more blonde, thinner, bigger breasts, etc. Maybe you haven't noticed when the larger of two women sits all alone while man after man after man asks her more attractive friend to dance.

I got ya big ladies covered - if you want a date and the bar hoppers ain't biting, go here. Quick and easy.

http://yourbbwdating.com/

Or go to a munch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munch_(BDSM) (yes, it's BDSM, but a LOTTTTTTT of BBWs go there and find a guy)

I got hundreds more links like that if ya want.

Ask yourself another question. How many times do people say, look at that dork with that beautiful woman vs. look at the pig with that handsome stud? Men are FAR more likely to judge harshly based on looks than women are of men. This is a non argument.

Of course. But she can pretty much shrug it off. Who's going to actually egg her house over that?

Baggage? Oh, I assume you mean like hoping we get treated with some semblance of respect and kindness and to just some disposable cum rag?

Funny that you say that. We guys would like to be treated with some semblance of respect and kindness instead of "you're an alpha male or you're just disposable".

We tolerate and coddle the endless, tiresome "a good man is hard to find" whines. We'd like you to tolerate our "nice guy" whines, too. It's symmetry, baby.

Hypocricy in the dating scene? How much are we expected to spend on clothes compared to men? Make-up?

We pay for the expensive car. Which you get in the divorce.

Now some ladies buy a new set of clothes for every date but generally, that ain't the case. On the other hand, we guys pay for the date. Whether we get laid or not, we shell out piles of cash on every date over and over and over again until a 'connection' is made. And while you might think we wear rags to a date, no, really, we don't. We also buy hella clothes for dates. I doubt you come from a podunk trailer park where they wear rags to dates. Perhaps Javagirl, but not you.

How are often are men raped?

Boys get molested a lot but they only recently started talking about it. Guys, now they just get killed.

Stalked? dumped if they don't fuck on the first date.

LOL, guys get dumped beforehand. Stalked? Hell, it happens a lot to guys now.

Or immediately after if they do? I'm guessing you don't get all stressed out if you don't get called back. Ever.

No, we just accept fake phone numbers and "she won't pick up the phone" as a fact of dating life.

So if I go outside in cum fuck me heels, a mini skirt and tank top with my tits spilling out all over, and get hit on, THAT is your version of women having it so good?

Let's put it this way. A world where all a guy has to do is wear a muscle shirt and women hit on him? "Oh noes, not that, anything but that," said Brer Rabbit.

It's too bad all a man has to do is show a little kindness and interest and his own self respect. Too bad indeed. For us.

You're not actually REQUIRED to even show that. But we guys have to show a hell of a lot more than that.

You just sit there waiting for Prince Charming to do all the work: first move, first askout, don't fuck until the 150,000th date, and so on and so on.


Damn. This was long winded. I should have just let the women speak on this:
http://hodja.files.wordpress.com/2006/06/i_have_the_pussy_so_i_make_the_rules.jpg

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I am NOT looking for any medal or badge of honor/stupidity.

I am simply curious about some subjects and imagine they could actually turn into thought provoking discussions. Yet time and time again (hey, I'm still a newbie I guess), I am confronted with outlandish outbursts fraught with emotion and extreme positions. That's before it degenerates into cussing and name calling.

Discussions about men/women issues are never civil.

They always, ALWAYS go this way:
1) Women complain about their dating woes
2) Guys coddle her and rouse to arms to high tech lynch the guy she's whining about
* 3) If some guy complains about his dating woes, it's immediate Jihad City on his ass
4) loop back to #1


* this is where we've been this week, in this cycle

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Outlandish outbursts and name-calling are Le Jerkoff's bread and butter. Don't sweat it. I had him on Ignore until recently, and I find it entertaining when he flies off the handle.

God damn, you're desperate for some pussy, aren't you?

Hint: you're kissing the wrong side, dumbass. Wipe your nose.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I am NOT looking for any medal or badge of honor/stupidity.

I am simply curious about some subjects and imagine they could actually turn into thought provoking discussions. Yet time and time again (hey, I'm still a newbie I guess), I am confronted with outlandish outbursts fraught with emotion and extreme positions. That's before it degenerates into cussing and name calling.

That's why I've grown a bit short with the beloved of late. The wasted potential for interesting debate does begin to get on one's nerves. That and the "reassertion of my claim is the most powerful form of proof!" school of reasoning.

But here's a question - are the standands for each gender relaxing as society approaches more flexible gender roles? Are women who are more financially independent feeling secure enough to dress down a bit? Are men feeling less pressure to pay for meals and dates? Are people of both genders making roughly equal progress on that whole dreadful "making the first move" issue?

Having led a rather Bohemian college life, I'd say from my own exprience that men and women have done roughly equal amounts of "making the first move," that hardly anyone ever went on a formal date at which one participant paid for the other's food, and that (it being college) dress was decidedly casual. I wonder how the players on the current stage are handling things.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Discussions about men/women issues are never civil.

They always, ALWAYS go this way:
1) Women complain about their dating woes
2) Guys coddle her and rouse to arms to high tech lynch the guy she's whining about
* 3) If some guy complains about his dating woes, it's immediate Jihad City on his ass
4) loop back to #1


* this is where we've been this week, in this cycle

And the world is rose. Because that's the color my glasses are.

Outside of your own personal reality, I just had this discussion with a mixed group of genders and ages a few weeks past. It was civil, pleasant, filled with laughter, and didn't follow any part of your pattern.

Possibly you might want to expand your social circle just a titch. It seems to have certain limitations.