What's good for the goose is good for the gander

[dolf]

Shit, he wouldn't get away with that in America.

We have 2 fools like that coming up right now as we speak - one dude threw a kid onto a highway in Hawaii and another one threw a bunch off a bridge. I bet they'll claim insanity and swing from a tall tree.

Yes, the UK is somewhat different from the US. Your perspective can't really be questioned, much less countered, because you're in a different culture.

there are huge cultural differences, tis true.

that trial was in turkey.
it happens in the uk too though.

men can't get post partum depression but it IS a real disease.
maybeif america had midwife/health visiter support for newmothers then the numbers would be different.

 

[~Avalon~]

Yeah and the jackass who says "are you fat?" would get his ass handed to him in a takeout bag.

You know me, I'm practically a first responder to a jackhole like that.

you don't really believe that do you?
the value of a woman is still hugely based on her physical attractiveness.

you can see it over and over again right here on lit.
if a woman with an av of someone obese or otherwise unattractive were to spout something hateful, she'd get ripped to shreds.
someone who is moderately attractive gets flirted with.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

laws change first. attitudes take longer.
recently an mp here said that he would like date rape to be treated more lightly, as a "misunderstanding"...the implication that if you agreed to date him then you gave up the rght to withdraw consent.

Shit, is he still an MP?! That's a serious difference between the US and UK. We'd fuck that dude up here.

polls on public opinion show a frightening number of people {male and female} agree.

OMFG. Your culture really is different.

I'm really sorry they're like that. Seriously. Y'all have some serious justification to raise hell over there. I'm on your side about that issue.

yes, things are changing.
a young woman is as likely to give up her seat to and elderly man as a young man is to an elderly woman.
equality laws swing both ways and men have used then where they've felt discrimination.

but look at sports...
the top paid athletes? the best known athletes? the ones who get played on prime time tv?

women aren't taking over the world.

But I never said women are taking over the world.

I never said life was perfect for women - and considering what you're saying about the UK, shit, what a mess. You seriously have my sympathies.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

you don't really believe that do you?
the value of a woman is still hugely based on her physical attractiveness.

you can see it over and over again right here on lit.
if a woman with an av of someone obese or otherwise unattractive were to spout something hateful, she'd get ripped to shreds.
someone who is moderately attractive gets flirted with.

Well, I've led a few charges against fat bashers and watched the pile-on go against said target. Fat bashers and Ishmael, two targets I can reliably get a pile-on going in my favor, or at least against them. But I'm quite sure that when the rank and file GBers are away, the trolls are like mice and they swarm women like that. They sure as fuck won't do it on my watch, and I'm more than willing to puff up my chest like that and then back it up.

But yeah, you have a point if you're talking about society in general - people still rain hell on fat women. It's fucking ridiculous.

 

[~Avalon~]

Well, I've led a few charges against fat bashers and watched the pile-on go against said target. Fat bashers and Ishmael, two targets I can reliably get a pile-on going in my favor, or at least against them. But I'm quite sure that when the rank and file GBers are away, the trolls are like mice and they swarm women like that. They sure as fuck won't do it on my watch, and I'm more than willing to puff up my chest like that and then back it up.

But yeah, you have a point if you're talking about society in general - people still rain hell on fat women. It's fucking ridiculous.

this is why my back gets up when i read generalizations about women v men.
no doubt there are high expectations for men... expectations for women are just as high. we're expected to have a career yet still make family our first priority. if our isn't clean enough, nobody blames the adult male living there. our children are expected to be perfect or we're bad mothers, we also have to maintain some sort of physical perfection in all that too.

 

[dolf]

fat bashing in doll threads is done.
it's done lots.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

this is why my back gets up when i read generalizations about women v men.
no doubt there are high expectations for men... expectations for women are just as high. we're expected to have a career yet still make family our first priority.

Still? Nowadays?

if our isn't clean enough, nobody blames the adult male living there. our children are expected to be perfect or we're bad mothers, we also have to maintain some sort of physical perfection in all that too.

Damn, I don't even see anyone giving a hoot about that anymore. Am I just not noticing? I might not be, really.

 

[lushlucid]

I'll give you an example
My ex boyfriend is already moving in with another girl after a month of breaking up with me, he won't even speak to me.
If a chick did that she'd be a slut if a guy does that he's just moving on.

If a chick is emotional in a relationship, she's clingy if a guy is,he's sensitive.

 

[~Avalon~]

Still? Nowadays?


Damn, I don't even see anyone giving a hoot about that anymore. Am I just not noticing? I might not be, really.

absolutely still nowadays.

you may not be noticing, people tend to pay more attention to issues that they face.
we struggle constantly with having to maintain this dual role. if we choose to stay home and raise our children we're lazy, if we choose to have a career and put our kids in daycare we're bad mothers.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

absolutely still nowadays.

you may not be noticing, people tend to pay more attention to issues that they face.
we struggle constantly with having to maintain this dual role. if we choose to stay home and raise our children we're lazy, if we choose to have a career and put our kids in daycare we're bad mothers.

And where I come from, the Family Leave Act isn't seen as going far enough and better access to day care is a huge issue.

The fact that it's an issue, though, illuminates the existence of two-faced bigotry towards women about this. But at least now there are people pushing to put an end to the crap.

Still, I would never tell you to shut up and deal the way they tell guys.

 

[Moanique]

I'll give you an example
My ex boyfriend is already moving in with another girl after a month of breaking up with me, he won't even speak to me.
If a chick did that she'd be a slut if a guy does that he's just moving on.

If a chick is emotional in a relationship, she's clingy if a guy is,he's sensitive.

Very true. I see examples of this everyday.

 

[lushlucid]

on a side note i love your new sig and av, so classy

 

[Moanique]

on a side note i love your new sig and av, so classy

Thank you! ... And nice tush!

 

[Moist_Mary]

At the risk of bumping a thread that was left to die

Is that too much to ask for when it comes to gender relations? How does that qualify as hating women, eh?

BTW Moist Mary, I'm sure you or someone else will find some way to peg this as another hostile act against the poor, put upon GB.

Ok. So against my better judgment (please no PMs), I feel a need to respond to this thread since it appears it was made on my behalf or in response to a previous exchange between LJ and myself. I am, after all, named in the opening post.

I will not go so far as to suggest this thread title is 'hostile' but I can easily understand if others see it as so. What I will say is that this is not the best title or opening post (IMO) for what COULD be an interesting subject to discuss. I gather this is in response to another subject that touched on the idea of perceived unequal expectations of each gender.

Were it me, I might suggest a different title and tone if you REALLY want to discuss such a subject in a civil manner. I might suggest the following:

Do you see different expectations and perceptions for men and women? Is one gender generally given a free pass at the expense of the other? Or do these inequalities offset each other? Discuss.

 

[phrodeau]

You're acting on the assumption that Le Jerque wants to discuss it.

 

[Moist_Mary]

You're acting on the assumption that Le Jerque wants to discuss it.

I'm a newbie still and so my inclination is to 'fault' on the side of consideration and respect.

 

[Redatlit]

Ok. So against my better judgment (please no PMs), I feel a need to respond to this thread since it appears it was made on my behalf or in response to a previous exchange between LJ and myself. I am, after all, named in the opening post.

I will not go so far as to suggest this thread title is 'hostile' but I can easily understand if others see it as so. What I will say is that this is not the best title or opening post (IMO) for what COULD be an interesting subject to discuss. I gather this is in response to another subject that touched on the idea of perceived unequal expectations of each gender.

Were it me, I might suggest a different title and tone if you REALLY want to discuss such a subject in a civil manner. I might suggest the following:

Do you see different expectations and perceptions for men and women? Is one gender generally given a free pass at the expense of the other? Or do these inequalities offset each other? Discuss.

That's not how he works. In nearly every thread he starts he fills his initial post with hyperbole and venom so that he creates a hostile environment. He does that because he's not interested in discussing a topic. There is no give and take, no ebb and flow. There is no exchange of ideas. He wants to rant, and the majority of his rants involve him as a faultless victim of some sort of opression. The hostile environment he creates enables him to ignore any and all opposing points of view, and claim those positions come from ignorance, hatred or prejudice. His arguments are emotional rather than logical. This thread is nothing other than business as usual.

 

[Moist_Mary]

That's not how he works. In nearly every thread he starts he fills his initial post with hyperbole and venom so that he creates a hostile environment. He does that because he's not interested in discussing a topic. There is no give and take, no ebb and flow. There is no exchange of ideas. He wants to rant, and the majority of his rants involve him as a faultless victim of some sort of opression. The hostile environment he creates enables him to ignore any and all opposing points of view, and claim those positions come from ignorance, hatred or prejudice. His arguments are emotional rather than logical. This thread is nothing other than business as usual.

I am trying hard to give him the benefit of doubt. Not because I have positive experiences debating him. But rather because some of the subjects he raises are discussion worthy.

I am of the opinion (rare maybe) that I do not know everything. And while I have my opinions, I like to think few of opinions are beyond reconsideration. I enjoy discussing a wide variety of topics with others. Including those with views opposing my own. And I like to think I enter those discussions with a willingness to open my mind and consider other perspectives and ideas on a subject. That is how I grow. And how I expand my knowledge of the world around me.

I suspect LJ/LT is intelligent. But wonder if his emotions get in the way. His rants are emotional, if not hostile. Which undermines, IMO, his ability to seriously engage others or to sway their ideas. Which is too bad. And yes, I have experienced his unwillingness to give at all. Reminds me of someone I once knew who would say (tongue firmly planted in cheek), "My minds made up, don't confuse me with the facts!"

One must be willing to listen in order to discuss.

 

[Redatlit]

I am trying hard to give him the benefit of doubt. Not because I have positive experiences debating him. But rather because some of the subjects he raises are discussion worthy.

I am of the opinion (rare maybe) that I do not know everything. And while I have my opinions, I like to think few of opinions are beyond reconsideration. I enjoy discussing a wide variety of topics with others. Including those with views opposing my own. And I like to think I enter those discussions with a willingness to open my mind and consider other perspectives and ideas on a subject. That is how I grow. And how I expand my knowledge of the world around me.

I suspect LJ/LT is intelligent. But wonder if his emotions get in the way. His rants are emotional, if not hostile. Which undermines, IMO, his ability to seriously engage others or to sway their ideas. Which is too bad. And yes, I have experienced his unwillingness to give at all. Reminds me of someone I once knew who would say (tongue firmly planted in cheek), "My minds made up, don't confuse me with the facts!"

One must be willing to listen in order to discuss.

And many including myself have discussed issues with him while he ranted. If I'm not mistaken there are many posts discussing the topic in a rational and intelligent manner in this very thread. How were they met? It's admirable of you to reach out to him. I'll be curious to see how he responds to you.

 

[Moist_Mary]

And many including myself have discussed issues with him while he ranted. If I'm not mistaken there are many posts discussing the topic in a rational and intelligent manner in this very thread. How were they met? It's admirable of you to reach out to him. I'll be curious to see how he responds to you.

Thank you for the comment.

One of his defenses to me has been that he is always attacked and ganged up upon. I have seen this first hand. It is true. Perhaps for good reason based on the deafening echo of all that pile on him. Yet, like most of my opinions, I am willing to listen to others, but will ultimately decide for myself. I will take other comments or opinions under advisement but will decide for myself based on my own personal experience.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Ah, poor LJ is lonely. He hasn't had attention in positively minutes.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Women drivers? Sense of direction? Mechanical ability? DIY ineptitude? Going nuts every month?

Shh. Stop muddying the issue with facts and reason. You know how he hates that.

Nice post, Dolf.

 

[BlackShanglan]

But yeah, you have a point if you're talking about society in general - people still rain hell on fat women. It's fucking ridiculous.

Well, now surely this is impossible. After all, I seem to recall none other than LJ baying at the moon for months on end when I suggested that overweight women faced challenges on the dating scene. And LJ, I know, is wholly incapable of saying completely contradicatory things simply because he wishes to annoy people and try to justify some asinine position or another that he's taken.

Still, I would never tell you to shut up and deal the way they tell guys.

Unless, of course, you happened to be an overweight woman looking for a date.

Redatlit, that was a very neat summation of LJ's tactics. MM, all the best to you. It would be lovely if sooner or later, someone made some inroads with him.

 

[Javagirl]

Somebody pissed in his Cheerios...











...again.

Yeah, that piss in his Cheerios was Moist Mary and Moanique. Once again, he's going off on a lame tangent.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Yeah, that piss in his Cheerios was Moist Mary and Moanique.

Somehow, someway, in some alternate universe of kink and libidinous, free-flying-freak, the thought of Moist Mary and Moanique pissing in a bowl of Cheerios isn't that altogether unwholesome...

...uhhh...just as long as they're Honey Nut Cheerios to dampen the saltiness a tad!