What not to do: Examples

[BobbyBrandt]

I have been reflecting lately on one of my older stories with a score (4.12) significantly lower than most of my others, and considering all the things that I did with this story that resulted in the lower than expected response from readers. For reference, the story is One Friday In February.

First of all, the most obvious and glaring mistake was for me to post it in the Loving Wives category. It was immediately pounced on by the incels that lurk in that category whose comments prove that they have the reading comprehension skills of a porta-potty. Erotic Couplings or even Romance might have been better choices for me.

In hindsight, another mistake was being too abstract for the intellectual level of the readers, regardless of the category. The two main characters meet on, and embark upon a torrid sexual affair held each Valentine's Day that falls on a Friday for 39 years. Vague references are made about their marriages, jobs, and other details of their lives during this time span, but their sexual exploits together on these special Friday Valentine's days are the core of the plot. These are their special times together as lovers and their respective spouses appear to accept that fact. While it is revealed at the end that these two characters have been married to each other for all these years and view their special day as an escape for them as unencumbered lovers, this fact was lost on the majority of readers who chose to leave a comment.

So, my question is, what mistakes have you discovered in hindsight relative to one of your stories? It could be the category chosen, the character development, the POV used to tell the tale, or anything else. I think more importantly, what did you learn from it?

 

[Djmac1031]

The biggest mistake I made in a story was assuming readers would understand I, the AUTHOR, did not condone the choice of a CHARACTER to murder another character in cold blood for sleeping with his wife.

I had people calling the story "Murder Porn" and accusing me of intentionally trying to titillate readers with it.

Then there was the BURN THE BITCH crowd that felt the wife deserved a bullet, too.

 

[alohadave]

The biggest mistake I made in a story was assuming readers would understand I, the AUTHOR, did not condone the choice of a CHARACTER to murder another character in cold blood for sleeping with his wife.

I had people calling the story "Murder Porn" and accusing me of intentionally trying to titillate readers with it.

Then there was the BURN THE BITCH crowd that felt the wife deserved a bullet, too.

Those people also seem to think that the stories in LW are all true, not fiction.

 

[NoTalentHack]

The biggest mistake I made in a story was assuming readers would understand I, the AUTHOR, did not condone the choice of a CHARACTER to murder another character in cold blood for sleeping with his wife.

I had people calling the story "Murder Porn" and accusing me of intentionally trying to titillate readers with it.

Then there was the BURN THE BITCH crowd that felt the wife deserved a bullet, too.

This, right here. I can't tell you how many comments I got on At the End of the Tour talking about how they hoped I'd gotten my anger out of my system. Or on The Last Snowfall asking what was wrong with me that I'd write something so dark. On... basically every one of my stories implying wildly different things based on what the narrator/main character in each story had to say.

There's a general lack of... I don't even know what to call it. Some of it is reading comprehension, some of it is an inability to separate a writer from their characters, some of it is a general dumbing down of media consumption (not the media itself, but the way people engage with it). And it seems worst on sites like this, where people aren't paying for the experience, so whoever wants to read can wander on in.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Those people also seem to think that the stories in LW are all true, not fiction.

Ah, yes, the "YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS!" crowd. Not even "you, the writer, should have had your character do this," but something that feels uncomfortably close to the reader not understanding it's just a story.

 

[TadOverdon]

I have been reflecting lately on one of my older stories with a score (4.12) significantly lower than most of my others, and considering all the things that I did with this story that resulted in the lower than expected response from readers. For reference, the story is One Friday In February.

First of all, the most obvious and glaring mistake was for me to post it in the Loving Wives category. It was immediately pounced on by the incels that lurk in that category whose comments prove that they have the reading comprehension skills of a porta-potty. Erotic Couplings or even Romance might have been better choices for me.

In hindsight, another mistake was being too abstract for the intellectual level of the readers, regardless of the category. The two main characters meet on, and embark upon a torrid sexual affair held each Valentine's Day that falls on a Friday for 39 years. Vague references are made about their marriages, jobs, and other details of their lives during this time span, but their sexual exploits together on these special Friday Valentine's days are the core of the plot. These are their special times together as lovers and their respective spouses appear to accept that fact. While it is revealed at the end that these two characters have been married to each other for all these years and view their special day as an escape for them as unencumbered lovers, this fact was lost on the majority of readers who chose to leave a comment.

So, my question is, what mistakes have you discovered in hindsight relative to one of your stories? It could be the category chosen, the character development, the POV used to tell the tale, or anything else. I think more importantly, what did you learn from it?

I haven't read your story so this isn't a comment on your execution in this case, but my dad insisted that the most common and annoying error of new writers was believing that they could pull off a twist ending and thinking that it was important for a story to have one. I think I've confirmed this over the years through both reading and my own attempts.

 

[jaykaythree]

Dates, and when they fall in a week, are fun for me ... "each Valentine's Day that falls on a Friday for 39 years."

From that clue (not having read your story yet), I'm guessing this spans 1975 to 2014. (And apropos of nothing, this is my 100th message posted.)

 

[NoTalentHack]

To answer your original question, I think that there's stuff that you can and should do in one category that you can't or shouldn't do in another, IF your goal is to get good ratings. Complex and murky characterization, i.e., people that seem human, really frustrates a lot of the most vocal folks in LW. A failure to give an ending, either of the "they all lived happily ever after" or "here's how I committed several felonies and got away with it" is another that doesn't fly well there.

That stuff is generally more accepted in other categories; it's even seen as artistic if done right. Or just a possibility of leaving things open-ended for you to return to later. But there's a certain segment of LW that is very wish-fulfillment-driven, the ones that had bad divorces where they got screwed (at least in their minds), that needs that certainty to be comfortable.

LW also tends to be a lot more conservative; Romance is the same, in some respects. It's the only place where I've had people tell me they deducted points for anal being included in a story. I got dinged, I know, because of how I wrote Incompatible Needs, a story about three flawed people badly navigating polyamory but getting to a happy ending. Half of the comments were "polyamory never works!" while the other half were "the main character is a selfish jerk/master manipulator!" Which, yeah, he was. And his wife was too competitive and couldn't turn that off. And their friend was too passive and too eager to commit to huge things without really thinking about it, because she thought she'd finally found her dream. Mix that ambiguity with a positive story about polyamory, and you end up with one of only two stories I've written with a sub-4 rating. And the other ended with the suicide of the main character, another no-no.

I decided that I'm just not going to worry too much about my ratings; or rather, I'm going to see how high I can get them while still writing things that are challenging to the readers. My favorite comments are the ones where they say "I hated these characters, but it was so good! 5*" or "God, how did you make me fucking like this?" That's what I'm aiming for now, because I know I can't make everyone happy. So I'm going to make me happy, and hopefully make them think.

 

[Djmac1031]

I haven't read your story so this isn't a comment on your execution in this case, but my dad insisted that the most common and annoying error of new writers was believing that they could pull off a twist ending and thinking that it was important for a story to have one. I think I've confirmed this over the years through both reading and my own attempts.

I've only ever attempted one "twist" ending, with mixed results.

The story was meant to be humorous parody but wound up being much darker than I'd expected, so much so that I wound up tacking on an "alternative ending" that completely changed the context of the previous events of the story.

It got mixed reviews. Some loved it, others... not so much.

 

[oggbashan]

How NOT to do it...

The roseate Sun, Phoebus’ orb, was glinting in the puddles and dappling the fallen leaves of the ancient forest as Joan made her way along the footpath leading from her rustic rose-entwined cottage, so beloved of tourists and her infrequent visitors from the city who left as soon as they reasonably could because the cottage lacked the basic amenities than any twenty-first century city dweller expected as of right such as satellite television and even running hot and cold water, both of which were unavailable, towards the steeple crowned hill on which the Parish Church sat as it had done for more than a thousand years surveying the expanding and contracting village in the valley beneath and perhaps regretting the earlier centuries when it had been filled to capacity by local residents each in their proper place and order according to the standards of the time, but Joan diverted from the direct route to the Church at a junction and was now heading in the direction of the Evening Star, the planet Venus known as Aphrodite to the Greeks but whether Greek or Roman was the personification of sexual desire, which sexual desire Joan was expecting to assuage once she reached her destination but in the meantime she was diverted by the interplay of light and shade from the evening sun as it sank lower on the horizon turning the landscape to a darkening ruddy hue which darkened further as she walked wondering whether she would reach her destination and assignation before Phoebus’ chariot had passed beyond her view but even if she did not her path was clear because she was accustomed to walking in the direction of the Evening Star every evening that she had free from her avocation of breeder of large and hairy dogs that bore a faint resemblance to The Hound of The Baskervilles and at times she would take one of the so-called breed with her on her perambulation which would certainly deter any evil minded loiterers upon her way but unfortunately also frequently prevented the consummation of her assignation by refusing to leave her side and repulsing her intended with ferocious barking and frenzied attacks barely held in check by the strong leash essential for such savage dogs but this time she was without a canine companion and therefore she hoped that the consummation would be forthcoming without let or hindrance as she continued to walk alongside the nearly dark woodlands before emerging on a slight eminence whence she could see her goal of another rose-entwined cottage from the chimney of which a wisp of smoke was arising promising warmth in both the physical, mental and sexual encounter which Joan would shortly enjoy.

"He's lit my fire" she said to herself.

PS. Ignoring the last short sentence which I couldn't resist:

Words 450
Sentences 1
Reading Ease 0
Grade Level 12.0

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Don't mix too many things into one story, as the more details, the more likely some readers are to be put off, and if they've already read more than a few paragraphs, they're likely to be annoyed and downvote.

Or just accept that some readers won't like it. I was doing a chapter of a story where two characters were more important than what they got up to, moved the chapter to Anal because that was basically what they got up to, got to a bit where the woman persuaded the guy to try on some of her lacy underwear (but without going into a sissifying plot), and unsurprisingly a bunch of people didn't like that nor all the talking. The ones who had read the previous six chapters did seem to like it.

The high-scoring and viewed stories in Lesbian Sex, Gay Male and Anal (and probably a fair few other categories) are often first time ones.

Stories with people getting together tend to be more popular than ones about established couples.

Unexpected homosexual contact tends not to go down well unless it's women doing it.

Unexpected BDSM had better be no more than a light spanking.

I sometimes try to put as many people off as possible with my first few paragraphs - if readers don't like those, they won't like the rest...

 

[nice90sguy]

I've written about sixty erotic stories. My biggest mistake was with the first one I wrote, where I claimed that it was true. Nobody gives a fuck whether it's true or not.
Another mistake I've made is to worry about popularity too much. I now have a clear picture of my reader when I write, and I write for him/her, not for everyone.

 

[yowser]

Unless your story involves tailors, scientists or surveyors, best to stay away from measurements.

 

[Comshaw]

What not to do:


What to do:
Try everything

A long time ago a guy told me,"If you're not falling on your ass from time to time, you aren't learning a damn thing. You never learn much, if anything from that which you do well. Sticking to what you can do and do flawlessly is a trap. Try everything, even those things others tell you don't or can't work. If you fail, you're gunna' learn something from it. If you succeed you are going to have something special."

Everest couldn't be climbed, but it was. The bottom of the Marianas trench couldn't be visited, but it was. Human footprints on the moon are an impossibility, but they are there.

Even the hard and fast rules like grammar are transient. They change and they change because someone broke them and established a new way of doing things.

For my money, What works or doesn't work is a much better way to go about it. But that's my path. Find your's. It may not make you rich, famous or handsome but it will damn sure make you happy.

Comshaw

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I sometimes try to put as many people off as possible with my first few paragraphs - if readers don't like those, they won't like the rest...

Interesting strategy. Separate the wheat from the chaff at the beginning so those who hate the story will drop off and not even take the time to vote on it

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Dates, and when they fall in a week, are fun for me ... "each Valentine's Day that falls on a Friday for 39 years."

From that clue (not having read your story yet), I'm guessing this spans 1975 to 2014. (And apropos of nothing, this is my 100th message posted.)

You have the time span down perfectly.

I too like dates, and whenever I use a specific date (Month, day, and year), you can be assured that I will weave some event that actually happened on that date into the story.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I've only ever attempted one "twist" ending, with mixed results.

The story was meant to be humorous parody but wound up being much darker than I'd expected, so much so that I wound up tacking on an "alternative ending" that completely changed the context of the previous events of the story.

It got mixed reviews. Some loved it, others... not so much.

I have done a few twist endings and cliffhangers that typically the readers love.

I don't really consider the ending to "One Friday in February" to be a twist because there was no deceit throughout the story, just a vagueness that most readers couldn't fathom. I attribute this to the category (LW) and the predisposition of the readers of that category to focus on infidelity and ignore subtle nuances in the interactions between characters.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

This, right here. I can't tell you how many comments I got on At the End of the Tour talking about how they hoped I'd gotten my anger out of my system. Or on The Last Snowfall asking what was wrong with me that I'd write something so dark. On... basically every one of my stories implying wildly different things based on what the narrator/main character in each story had to say.

There's a general lack of... I don't even know what to call it. Some of it is reading comprehension, some of it is an inability to separate a writer from their characters, some of it is a general dumbing down of media consumption (not the media itself, but the way people engage with it). And it seems worst on sites like this, where people aren't paying for the experience, so whoever wants to read can wander on in.

Could this have to do with category choice as well?

I have several stories in Novels, including my first, where the MC orchestrates some torturous acts against his enemies and I only received a few squeamish comments on it. In my novel, Heavy Traffic, the protagonist literally dismembers the arms and legs of the main antagonist near the end, but leaves him alive. The reader comments were off-the-charts positive.

I have actually received more objections to fictional political ideals than to any violence in my stories.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Could this have to do with category choice as well?

I have several stories in Novels, including my first, where the MC orchestrates some torturous acts against his enemies and I only received a few squeamish comments on it. In my novel, Heavy Traffic, the protagonist literally dismembers the arms and legs of the main antagonist near the end, but leaves him alive. The reader comments were off-the-charts positive.

I have actually received more objections to fictional political ideals than to any violence in my stories.

A lot of it probably is. I have no hard data, but LW readers, or at least a lot of the commenters, seem generally a lot more conservative both sexually and politically than elsewhere on the site AND they tend to be a lot more literal in interpretations of what happens in stories. There’s a lot more Monday morning quarterbacking going on there; most comments in other sections are of the “this is great” or, occasionally, “this is not to my taste” type. LW comments are all over the place including “this is just wrong,” “this would never happen,” or “here’s what you should have done instead, you beta wimp cuck.”

 

[jaykaythree]

You have the time span down perfectly.

I too like dates, and whenever I use a specific date (Month, day, and year), you can be assured that I will weave some event that actually happened on that date into the story.

I guessed the start year because I was, in fact, born on 2/19/75, a Wednesday. Consequently, I chose 2/12/75, the previous Wednesday, as the DOB for my favorite male lead.

 

[Gamblnluck]

I've written about sixty erotic stories. My biggest mistake was with the first one I wrote, where I claimed that it was true. Nobody gives a fuck whether it's true or not.
Another mistake I've made is to worry about popularity too much. I now have a clear picture of my reader when I write, and I write for him/her, not for everyone.

My worst story both in terms of comments and scoring was one that was entirely true. I have since deleted the story, but it told of how i came home from work to find my wife had packed up and left me taking my daughter. Some told me how the story was total bullshit, others told me how the lawyers and police should have acted. A few told me how my epilogue was a farce when i related how my ex wanted to get married into the Catholic church and wanted me to sign off that (20 years later) I agreed to annul the marriage. The ex got a priest or counsel or somebody in the church to declare my marriage was void so she did not have the stigma of being divorced. All totally true.
I actually got a bit of a kick out of writing the story. It was a catharsis of sorts. I read the comments and after several months, deleted the story.

 

[drobert44]

My worst story both in terms of comments and scoring was one that was entirely true. I have since deleted the story, but it told of how i came home from work to find my wife had packed up and left me taking my daughter. Some told me how the story was total bullshit, others told me how the lawyers and police should have acted. A few told me how my epilogue was a farce when i related how my ex wanted to get married into the Catholic church and wanted me to sign off that (20 years later) I agreed to annul the marriage. The ex got a priest or counsel or somebody in the church to declare my marriage was void so she did not have the stigma of being divorced. All totally true.
I actually got a bit of a kick out of writing the story. It was a catharsis of sorts. I read the comments and after several months, deleted the story.

Truth.......not everyone wants to hear it.

 

[TheSolitaryMan]

If you run into a 1 bomber who philosophically hates your topic/method, you can struggle to recover from so many 1s dropped on you until they're bored and onto the next story they hate. I've had a couple struggle to pick up to hot over a period of time from 1s, in the end I quickly stopped caring about scores.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

1. A score of 4.12 in LW for a story that doesn't include preaching, violence, a crying and remorseful wife, or an old man who produces a pheromone storm that makes every woman want to rape him – is a very nice score.

2. The highest percentage of gifted people is in... prisons! Above 25% – yes, bad people can be very intelligent. Just because someone isn't nice to you doesn't necessarily make them stupid. Claiming that LW has more morons than other categories is... well, moronic.

3. If I can choose between a score of 8.9 with 3K views in one category, and a score of 3.9 with 30K views in another – It's an easy choice.

Some write to be read, and others to be rated.

The commenters can bombard and curse me as much as they want – as long as they drank my every damn word! (I will delete the meaningless comments anyway)

The only thing I regret is not using enough clickbait in the tags and descriptions.

You obviously missed the point of my post. Kinda like readers in LW missing the point in most of the stories there.

It's all about the feedback through comments of readers in some categories clearly indicating that they are more challenged at comprehending nuances in plot and characters than readers in other categories. Certainly, the score can reflect this, but that is only one component of their dysfunctional contributions.

This is much like you appear to do with you comments on this forum, you approach them with an agenda that will influence by your opinion even if it is totally incorrect and irrelevant to the original context.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think making mistakes is important, learning from them even more important.
The term Mary Sue has been big of late because of Hollywood's recent forgoing of the Hero's journey and replacing it with "They're the bestest at everything just cause!"

Mistakes, failure(even if its only in our eyes) and adversity all factor into making people better at everything they do. If you have never been challenged or challenged yourself, then somewhere down the line you have a serious wake up call coming and you won't be able to deal with it.

I don't feel I've made any serious mistakes here other than writing here with little ability with grammar and my early stories a nightmare in that sense. As for actual stories and ideas I don't consider any of them mistakes because they were all what I wanted to write.

In that case I let the readers tell me all about my mistakes and they're usually happy to do it.