What makes a story a “stroker”?

[PennyThompson]

You can definitely have a plot that's chock-full of explicit sex that still has a lot of things happening that make sex not the main focus; GoT is the obvious example.

Oh Game of Thrones, the books even more than the TV series, is at least 40% stroker

I like the idea of a Cartesian grid for classifying smut, though!

 

[Gamblnluck]

I find it interesting but not surprising that the OP, Zeronix, asked a serious question. What did he get? A few actual well considered answers but mostly a bunch of smart ass answers where the respondents wanted to show how they could 'one-up' each other and impress themselves with their own 'brilliant' comebacks. Typical for this 'author hangout'.
Yeah, I read here. And will likely continue on occasion when I am on hiatus from writing. But if an author asks for help, a suggestion, or even an serious opinion, this place is NOT where he/she should go... And to piss off some, I left off the 'they, them, its' when I said he, she.

 

[PennyThompson]

And to piss off some, I left off the 'they, them, its' when I said he, she.

The enbys are blameless, as usual

 

[Nynah]

On the other end would be... I don't actually know what a pure um... Cis-Stroker would look like? Just "fuck, cum, tits, butt" for 3,000 words?

You forgot "pussy, cunt, 12-inch cock, manhood" as additional flavor text.

 

[iwatchus]

As with most things in life, I feel like stroker/non-stroker is a spectrum not a binary!

I have to agree with Penny that it is not a yes-no thing. But I think it is not one-dimensional. Amount of sex and amount of story are separate dimensions; they can vary independently. Some people have brought quality of writing in as well. So I think of this as a giant cube. At one corner, is lots of sex, real characters and plot, and well written. I don't know, Story Of O?

At the opposite corner is no sex, no plot and no writing skill at all, maybe the Manhattan phone book? Some of the remaining six corners make sense. Much of great literature lies in the real characters and plot well written with no sex corner. I am not sure what you get with no plot, well written and lots of sex. I guess something past @StillStunned's Pas De Trois, which has great sex, is superbly written, but no real story arc (but does have real characters - I am not sure something can be well written with no characters at all, maybe it is just beyond me so far I can't imagine it).

I think we are arguing over what volume in this cube each of us call "stroker". I think the real problem is that we disagree on the meaning. I think anything that has little story arc and lots of sex is a stroker, but I don't consider it as derogatory of a term as others do. For them, it also defined by poor writing. I think a well written stroker is possible. Others consider that term an oxymoron.

 

[PennyThompson]

So I think of this as a giant cube.

Smut Cube!!

 

[Nynah]

But if an author asks for help, a suggestion, or even an serious opinion, this place is NOT where he/she should go... And to piss off some, I left off the 'they, them, its' when I said he, she.

Edgy.

I think the real problem is that we disagree on the meaning.

Generally speaking, disagreeing on the interpretation of any given term is the source of probably 75% of the bad blood in this forum.

 

[NuclearFairy]

I think part of the problem in defining a stroker is not everyone views the world in the same way. I have a mild case of alexithymia, unlike the poor SOBs who can only feel the most extreme emotions and tend to become adrenaline junkies to just feel something anything, I can feel something most of the time (Even if contentment is foreign emotional concept for me) But, I still can't feel more than one thing at a time. So if the story is too long, and doesn't start off wham bang with the sexual build up then I'll get invested into the story, and my curiosity or enjoyment of a well crafted story will be what I'm feeling with nothing left over for arousal. I need either a bunch of short story or something that is balls to the walls constant sexual tension and sex to get off. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't the only one, especially since autism and ADD are more common than people think, and alexithymia can be a symptom of both. It can also be a stand alone disorder.

 

[Comshaw]

Your garbage truck analogy doesn't apply. My point is that there really are two different kinds of arousal-centric stories.

You are correct in the fact that there are several different kinds of arousal stories, BUT at the base, in the end, they are all for ONE purpose, to sexually arouse the reader, ergo a "stroker" at heart. Calling it anything else is the same as calling a garbage man a Sanitation Engineer. Both labels fit, but the latter is for aesthetic purposes, the former a more accurate and easily understood description of it.

Comshaw

 

[Comshaw]

But if an author asks for help, a suggestion, or even an serious opinion, this place is NOT where he/she should go...

That's funny. I've found a lot of good advice here. And I've seen a lot of others who asked questions or wanted suggestions, get a bushel full of both. The thing isyou seem to think everyone should do it just like you think it should be done.

Smut Cube!!
View attachment 2546052

Smut cube? A cube in a round hole??? You do know the only way to do that is pound it in hard to make it fit, right?


Comshaw

 

[Comshaw]

Edgy.


Generally speaking, disagreeing on the interpretation of any given term is the source of probably 75% of the bad blood in this forum.

Bad blood? Here? BAWAHAHA! I'm a GB, PB alumni. The "bad blood" here wouldn't rise to the incredibly mild level of "your a poo poo head" over there. I was not only a garbage man but a septic truck operator back in the day so I know a cess pool when I see one. Compared to the PB, the AH is more like a rose-scented bath.

Comshaw

 

[StillStunned]

At the opposite corner is no sex, no plot and no writing skill at all, maybe the Manhattan phone book? Some of the remaining six corners make sense. Much of great literature lies in the real characters and plot well written with no sex corner. I am not sure what you get with no plot, well written and lots of sex. I guess something past @StillStunned's Pas De Trois, which has great sex, is superbly written, but no real story arc (but does have real characters - I am not sure something can be well written with no characters at all, maybe it is just beyond me so far I can't imagine it).

Thank you for the very kind words!

Like I mentioned upthread, without a story arc or character development, you'd better make sure the writing is good and the sex is hot.

As for characters, in a stroker I seem them like setting: they're largely static, just part of the vehicle for the sex. Compare Pas de Trois with Tammy, Jessica, Yuliya. PdT gives a glimpse of the narrator, and the reader gets a sense of the dancers. In TJY, the sex is a vehicle for the characters: in the space of one scene, there's background, conflict and resolution. And the comments are all about emotion, motivations and closure. Both stories are single-scene sex stories, but one's a stroker and the other isn't.

 

[AG31]

BUT at the base, in the end, they are all for ONE purpose,

Absolutely true.

to sexually arouse the reader, ergo a "stroker" at heart.

I'd say they are all "erotica" at heart. I subscribe to the notion that "erotica" must be about sex, and if it's about something else, with a lot of hot sex, it's plain fiction with a lot of sex.

Calling it anything else is the same as calling a garbage man a Sanitation Engineer.

You want "it" to be stories whose purpose is arousal.
I want "it" to be two kinds of storis whose purpose is arousal. Some that just list sex acts, with, maybe some build up and afterglow. And others that list them very well, with attention to language and nuance and striking detail. It's as if there were garbage trucks, and then there were other garbage trucks with a cab with reclining leather seats and the kind of engine that makes vehicle lovers purr along with it. That kind needs a special name to distinguish it from the other kind.

Both labels fit, but the latter is for aesthetic purposes, the former a more accurate and easily understood description of it.

Comshaw

The latter (stroker) carries a heavy burden of aesthetic connotation.

 

[AG31]

A few actual well considered answers

And they're often worth ploughing through all the other stuff.

but mostly a bunch of smart ass answers where the respondents wanted to show how they could 'one-up' each other and impress themselves with their own 'brilliant' comebacks.

I've never visited a board where this wasn't true. It's remarkable how people ignore the OP and just go off on their own. It's one thing when they're knowingly hi-jacking a thread, sometimes good fun. But it's really weird when they THINK they're addressing the OP, but are really just swimming in their own thoughts.

But, like I said, the nuggets of gold are often to be found.

 

[AG31]

At one corner, is lots of sex, real characters and plot, and well written. I don't know, Story Of O?

One of the few novel length stories that fits my definition of erotica. It's "about" sex. I've lately come to this clarity about erotica, and now I find myself wondering, OK, then how is the sub genre, stroker/simple erotica, distinguished? I think it's that it's about arousal either of the author or the reader. The Story of O and those few others are about sex from start to finish, and some of us are mildly aroused from start to finish, but it does have connecting bits that keep it from being a "stroker/simple erotica."

I think a well written stroker is possible. Others consider that term an oxymoron.

As I remind you all in a thread like this every couple of months. In my head I think of a "well written stroker" as "simple erotica."

 

[AG31]

Bad blood? Here? BAWAHAHA! I'm a GB, PB alumni. The "bad blood" here wouldn't rise to the incredibly mild level of "your a poo poo head" over there. I was not only a garbage man but a septic truck operator back in the day so I know a cess pool when I see one. Compared to the PB, the AH is more like a rose-scented bath.

Comshaw

What are GB and PB?

 

[Comshaw]

What are GB and PB?

What??? You've never wandered over to the General Board or the Politics Board? The General Board (GB) isn't bad now since the Politics Board was made. Since than the GB is actually pretty tame. Back a few years though all the stuff now on the PB was on the GB. Ain't no moderator on that board. The only rules you need to abide by are the general rules of Lit, otherwise it's a free-for-all.

I got away from there when it turned into a grade school fight. There really isn't much political discussion going on anymore. It's more like everyone peeing in the boot of everyone they disagree with. Name-calling and insults are the main game now. I like discussions and I can (most times, I ain't perfect) disagree amicably with another person. That said, I can't learn anything (other than a new way to insult someone) from people incessantly tossing insults back and forth as happens continuously on the PB.

So if you decide to meander over there, take your asbestos underwear.

Comshaw

 

[StillStunned]

As I remind you all in a thread like this every couple of months. In my head I think of a "well written stroker" as "simple erotica."

To my mind, quality isn't what distinguishes a stroker. There are well-written strokers, and there are awfully written novels. I also don't see "stroker" as a derogatory label. It just refers to a sex-driven story, as opposed to a character-driven or plot-driven story. And crafting a stroker takes just as much skill as any other well-crafted story.

 

[Comshaw]

Absolutely true.

I'd say they are all "erotica" at heart. I subscribe to the notion that "erotica" must be about sex, and if it's about something else, with a lot of hot sex, it's plain fiction with a lot of sex.

You want "it" to be stories whose purpose is arousal.
I want "it" to be two kinds of storis whose purpose is arousal. Some that just list sex acts, with, maybe some build up and afterglow. And others that list them very well, with attention to language and nuance and striking detail. It's as if there were garbage trucks, and then there were other garbage trucks with a cab with reclining leather seats and the kind of engine that makes vehicle lovers purr along with it. That kind needs a special name to distinguish it from the other kind.

The latter (stroker) carries a heavy burden of aesthetic connotation.

"I want "it" to be two kinds of storis whose purpose is arousal."

Okay I get that and I agree it can be. The thing is it's like spotting a Gray Wolf spider, you call it an arachnid, I call it an insect. We are both correct, but if you had to break it down to the most common denominator, it would be "insect". The same with erotic stories written to arouse the reader. You can give all of the different erotic stories unique labels, but if they are written to arouse the reader to a state the reader will "take it in hand" they are by definition stroke stories.

I'm sorry but having difficulty understanding the gist of your last sentence.

"The latter (stroker) carries a heavy burden of aesthetic connotation."

aesthetic
relating to the enjoyment or study of beauty:
An aesthetic object or a work of art is one that shows great beauty:
connotation
a feeling or idea that is suggested by a particular word although it need not be a part of the word's meaning, or something suggested by an object or situation:

So you are saying the term "stroker" carries the feeling or idea of beauty? I don't get it. If I'm off base and that's not what you meant, please set me straight.


Comshaw

 

[Ssbbw4u1974]

I'm not an expert writer, but the feedback I've gotten from every story I've written has been from men stating my stories help get them off!!

 

[AG31]

So you are saying the term "stroker" carries the feeling or idea of beauty? I don't get it. If I'm off base and that's not what you meant, please set me straight.


Comshaw

Sorry, that was, indeed, a bit confusing. I was thinking of "aesthic" as an area of thought. Something can be aesthetically good or aesthetically bad (has not much to do with it's arousal potential.) I should have said that "stroker" carries a heavy connotation of BAD aesthetics.

 

[AG31]

I also don't see "stroker" as a derogatory label.

We AHers are divided on this front. If it didn't have a derogatory connotation as far as artistry is concerned for me, I wouldn't argue for a different term for that subset which is artful... or strives to be artful. I just can't get over that hump.

 

[Bramblethorn]

"I want "it" to be two kinds of storis whose purpose is arousal."

Okay I get that and I agree it can be. The thing is it's like spotting a Gray Wolf spider, you call it an arachnid, I call it an insect. We are both correct, but if you had to break it down to the most common denominator, it would be "insect".

Spiders aren't insects.

 

[AG31]

I'm not an expert writer, but the feedback I've gotten from every story I've written has been from men stating my stories help get them off!!

Well, do you take that as a positive? I sure would.

 

[StillStunned]

We AHers are divided on this front. If it didn't have a derogatory connotation as far as artistry is concerned for me, I wouldn't argue for a different term for that subset which is artful... or strives to be artful. I just can't get over that hump.

I don't think any label's going to become as prevalent. I used to get bolshy when I heard it. Now, I just accept it as the commonly established name. If I want people's perspectives on strokers to change, it's up to me and other writers to show that they can be accomplished pieces of writing.