What kind of penalty?

[Kymberley]

RE: Elizabeth Smart

The short version of this story is that the kidnapper claims he is her spouse, and still loves her. But beyond that, the question of what kind of sentence should be imposed on a kidnapper that returns a child alive.

Should a lighter sentence be imposed in hopes that other kidnappers would also leave victims alive? Would it make a difference? Would you be willing as a society to impose lighter sentences on assailants who don't murder their victims?

Raping a child is a horrible nightmare for the child to live through, but if lessening the sentence the rapist would face could mean the difference of letting a victim live to testify or die to be silenced and disposed of....would you be willing to allow our system to do so?

As a parent, imagine watching the court give a man a sentence equal to shoplifting after he has raped your child, but left them alive, would you? Could you?



The full text

 

[phrodeau]

Can't read the full text without "subscribing", and I don't know the criminal codes of the jurisdictions involved. However, usually there will be minimum and maximum sentences for each conviction.

In this case (which I know very little about) "Emmanuel" Mitchell may not even be charged with kidnapping. Instead, he will likely be charged with statutory rape, corruption of a minor, and unlawful restraint.

 

[curious2c]

I don't think that sentencing would have any bearing on whether or not a kidnapper keeps the victim alive or not. to have gone as far as they have gone pretty much implies that they are not thinking clearly to begin with.

As a society, the punishment should fit the crime. Saying that, the kidnapping charge should be treated like a kidnapping charge and the murder charge should be treated as murder. Since the crime might entail rape also...then of course that should be a seperate charge too. In our court system there are allowances for multiple charges and ways to handle them.

In the Elizabeth Smart case...she was taken at knife point from her room. (kidnapping)
Held against her will, with the possible threat of harm (unlawful restraint.)
If there was sex between them...(Underage or statutory rape)

then the usual...child endangerment, corruption of a minor, and what ever else the system can come up with.

As to being a parent watching all this as it transpires in court...hard, hard, hard. If he only got a light charge...as parent I would be afraid that I may take the matter into my own hands and that wouldn't be a good way to be. There should be minimum sentencing that matches the crime and it should not be able to be bargained away...ever.

I firmly believe that if mandatory minimum sentencing was enforced and there were stiff penalties for using weapons such as guns or knives that made it a certain, say, twenty years on a sentence, something that could not be covered by 'time served' or bargained away in plea bargaining...then perhaps you would begin to see another drop in crime rates.

In other words...okay...you did this crime...for the theft you get...five years, but since you used a gun in the commision of this crime...twenty five years. Period. No, minus for time served, or hey, you helped us nail this guy so we will take away ten here or that kind of stuff. Do the crime, serve the time.

 

[Kymberley]

Can't read the full text without "subscribing"

The full text: Sorry, I do subscribe to it....so I will Cut and Paste it


Suspect's lawyer: Smart is his wife
'He still loves her'; attorney recommends light sentence


03/17/2003

Associated Press


SALT LAKE CITY – An attorney for the man suspected of abducting Elizabeth Smart told a television station Sunday that his client considers the 15-year-old his wife and "still loves her."

"He wanted me to tell the world that she is his wife, and he still loves her and knows that she still loves him, that no harm came to her during their relationship and the adventure that went on," said Larry Long, an attorney for Brian David Mitchell, in an interview with Salt Lake City's KUTV.

Mr. Long told the station that Mr. Mitchell asked him Sunday to be his lawyer. He was speaking for his client for the first time.

Calls to Mr. Long's office from The Associated Press were not returned Sunday, and calls to his home went unanswered.

Mr. Long said Mr. Mitchell did not consider Elizabeth's disappearance a kidnapping, but a "call from God."

Mr. Long also suggested that giving a light sentence to his client – whom he referred to as "the perpetrator" – could send a signal to kidnappers that they should keep their captives alive.

"If we can somehow set up some structure where the message gets out that if you bring the girl back alive, that there's some kind of commutation of the sentence, we may be much better off as a society."

Nine months after being abducted from her home, Elizabeth was found Wednesday with Ms. Mitchell and his wife, Wanda Barzee, in Sandy, Utah, when they were stopped by police.

Mr. Mitchell, who did handyman work at the Smart house in November 2001, is suspected in the kidnapping, as is Ms. Barzee.

The two remained in jail Sunday awaiting charges, expected to be filed Monday. Federal and local authorities, meanwhile, refused to comment on the investigation for a second straight day.

Mr. Mitchell, an excommunicated Mormon and self-styled prophet, wrote a rambling manifesto last year espousing the virtues of polygamy. The Mormon church has long distanced itself from polygamy and excommunicates those who practice it.

Mr. Long said Mr. Mitchell wants to be called "Immanuel David Isaiah." He wants Ms. Barzee to be known as "Hephzibah Eladah Isaiah" and for Elizabeth to be called "Shear Jashub Isaiah," or "Remnant Who Will Return."

Mormon faithful gathered to pray Sunday at Elizabeth's church, where her grandfather declared that the girl was so robbed of her free will by her captors that she didn't try to escape even when left alone for a day.

Her bishop called Elizabeth "pure before the Lord."

The teen's grandparents and uncle spoke to about 250 people gathered for the service.

"As a doctor, it's amazing to me that you can become so brainwashed that you identify with your captor," grandfather Charles Smart said.

During her time with her abductors, "Elizabeth had the chance of escaping. One day she was completely by herself, but she didn't try to run away," he said. At the church service, Bishop David Hamblin said despite anything that may have happened during the ordeal, the teen is "pure before the Lord. People who are in the control of others are not accountable."

No details have been released about any abuse Elizabeth may have suffered while captive. The girl has been interviewed several times by police, but her parents have not asked her for details, a family spokesman said.

Dr. Smart asked church members to be sensitive as Elizabeth gradually returns to her old life.

 

[RoughPlay]

what kind of sentence should be imposed on a kidnapper that returns a child alive.

I think the crime of kidnap is different from the crime of kidnap
and murder. I think about 15-20 years in jail for kidnap and 30-40
for kidnap and murder. Also the people should actually serve their
full sentence instead of being let out half way through like most
are in the UK.

Again I think the crime of child rape is different from child rape
and murder. I think about 30 years in jail for child rape and to the
end of their life in jail for child rape and murder.

 

[Kymberley]

I don't think that sentencing would have any bearing on whether or not a kidnapper keeps the victim alive or not. to have gone as far as they have gone pretty much implies that they are not thinking clearly to begin with.

As a society, the punishment should fit the crime. Saying that, the kidnapping charge should be treated like a kidnapping charge and the murder charge should be treated as murder. Since the crime might entail rape also...then of course that should be a seperate charge too. In our court system there are allowances for multiple charges and ways to handle them.

In the Elizabeth Smart case...she was taken at knife point from her room. (kidnapping)
Held against her will, with the possible threat of harm (unlawful restraint.)
If there was sex between them...(Underage or statutory rape)

then the usual...child endangerment, corruption of a minor, and what ever else the system can come up with.

As to being a parent watching all this as it transpires in court...hard, hard, hard. If he only got a light charge...as parent I would be afraid that I may take the matter into my own hands and that wouldn't be a good way to be. There should be minimum sentencing that matches the crime and it should not be able to be bargained away...ever.

I firmly believe that if mandatory minimum sentencing was enforced and there were stiff penalties for using weapons such as guns or knives that made it a certain, say, twenty years on a sentence, something that could not be covered by 'time served' or bargained away in plea bargaining...then perhaps you would begin to see another drop in crime rates.

In other words...okay...you did this crime...for the theft you get...five years, but since you used a gun in the commision of this crime...twenty five years. Period. No, minus for time served, or hey, you helped us nail this guy so we will take away ten here or that kind of stuff. Do the crime, serve the time.

I agree. IF it were possible to have a set of penalties based on each crime committed, that would solve so many legal loopholes that most criminals seem to find. Make it somewhat like a menu. If it involves a child add more years to it.


Crime

Rape....................... 10 years
Murder.................... 25 years
Robbery.................. 5 years
Shoplifting............... 3 years
Kidnapping.............. 15 years
etc.....

Weapon
Knife....................... add 3 years
Gun........................ add 5 years
etc......

 

[JerseyBoy]

Re: Re: What kind of penalty?

Again I think the crime of child rape is different from child rape
and murder. I think about 30 years in jail for child rape and to the
end of their life in jail for child rape and murder.

I agree...if a 25 year old rapes a child we should let him out by 55. How else is he gonna get a chance to do it again?

 

[RoughPlay]

Re: Re: Re: What kind of penalty?

I agree...if a 25 year old rapes a child we should let him out by 55. How else is he gonna get a chance to do it again?

I'm not normally known for my liberal sentencing policies. What do you think is a more fitting penalty?

 

[JerseyBoy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What kind of penalty?

I'm not normally known for my liberal sentencing policies. What do you think is a more fitting penalty?

Once a molestor, always a molestor. They admit it themselves...Do you really think that after getting out of jail they will not do it again?

If not in jail then in an institution...for LIFE!

All too often they end up as a janitor at the local elementary school

 

[Lancecastor]

You could hear the "but, she's my poly concubine!" defence coming a continent away before his lawyer said it.

This also means he's going to start describing all the things she freely did with him in the sack... in order to force a deal.

I have a feeling we're going to remember the name Elizabeth Smart for a lonnnnng time.

 

[JerseyBoy]

I have a feeling we're going to remember the name Elizabeth Smart for a lonnnnng time.

There will a new 'Elizabeth Smart' law invoked sure enough...

I'm sure that's just another reminder she'll need for the rest of her so called life...

 

[RoughPlay]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What kind of penalty?

If not in jail then in an institution...for LIFE!

This is fine with me.