What is it about French horns?

[Colleen Thomas]

Off the wall today, but I've been listening to some movie scores and clasical.

What is it about French horns that make them so powerful in an orchestral piece? Ilove music in general and Classical in particular, but aytime I hear classical with a strong horn section it perks me right up, almost like Ampheatmines, it just gets me going. anyone know?

 

[NoJo]

I have an English Horn.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I have an English Horn.

Somehow I knew that as coming (pun upon yours intended)

 

[NoJo]

What were you listening to?

 

[Hooper_X]

French Horn Schmench Horn, what you need is a big black contrabassoon.

 

[Guest]

Anyone want to have Sax with me?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

What were you listening to?

Minas Tirirth, from the Lord of the rings sound track.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

French horns have a different style of mouthpiece from other brass instruments. The inner bore is conical rather than cup-shaped, which makes them more difficult to play.

They also do wonderful crescendos. Normally, they're played with the player's hand in the bell, which muffles the sound and gives it that smooth and mellow quality. For big crescendos, the player takes his hand from the bell and the sound explodes with a whoop. Then they sound like their relative, the hunting horn.

They're also notoriously difficult to play, mainly because of that mouthpiece thing. Supposedly the first chair horn of the Boston Symphony offered a champagne dinner to the section if they could ever make it through an entire concert without a mistake. He never had to buy.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

French horns have a different style of mouthpiece from other brass instruments. The inner bore is conical rather than cup-shaped, which makes them more difficult to play.

They also do wonderful crescendos. Normally, they're played with the player's hand in the bell, which muffles the sound and gives it that smooth and mellow quality. For big crescendos, the player takes his hand from the bell and the sound explodes with a whoop. Then they sound like their relative, the hunting horn.

They're also notoriously difficult to play, mainly because of that mouthpiece thing. Supposedly the first chair horn of the Boston Symphony offered a champagne dinner to the section if they could ever make it through an entire concert without a mistake. He never had to buy.

thanks Doc

I just know they impart a quality to the sound that isn't like the rest of the horns and that makes me really shiver in pleasure.

 

[scheherazade_79]

Hmmm.... I know what you mean, Colly. There's just something totally heroic about them, even when they're playing something sad.
It totally beats me, because I've played in a lot of orchestras and horn players are notorious assholes - both male and female!

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

According to everything2.com:

“ The proper way to play the instrument involves sticking your hand in the bell. This alters the pitch of the note you're playing, so the position of the hand is very important. . . .

Most french horn players will insist that the proper name for the instrument is simply horn, and that they are hornists . . .

You can easily tell if you're kissing a hornist if his/her lips are in just the right place, and his hand is up your bum.

 

[Guest]

My undergrad major is in French horn. And I know every joke, VB.

Zoot is correct, but the conical aspect extends to the entire instrument, not just the mouthpiece.

The trumpet has a more brilliant sound because it is cylindrical; the tubing stays generally the same diameter until the large flare near the end of the 4 1/2 feet.

The horn (nobody in the biz calls it French horn because it is actually German, as opposed to the English horn which is actually French) with a thumb trigger, hence a double horn, reaches 16 feet, and the from the mouthpiece to the bell the bore gradually increases in diameter - hence conical.

That produces the gorgeous mellow sound. (The flugelhorn and to some extent the cornet have a bit of that sound because the tubing is also conical.)

The hand in the bell? It is necessary, as the instrument is actually pitched 1/4 tone sharp to compensate.

Because of the length of the tubing the range is immense, and it also lands at a certain place in the harmonic register, which means it is notoriously inaccurate.

Example - for trumpets to play in their everyday range the distance between playing notes with the same fingering is a fifth, and then a fourth, and then smaller the higher you go.

For a horn player in their everyday range the distance is a third, then a second, and so on, and there is a solid octave of notes you can play with the same fingerings right next to each other.

Sucks.

But - John Williams loves the horn - and it shows in everything he's written.



Edited to add - and YES horn players know just what to do with their lips.

 

[Guest]

Hmmm.... I know what you mean, Colly. There's just something totally heroic about them, even when they're playing something sad.
It totally beats me, because I've played in a lot of orchestras and horn players are notorious assholes - both male and female!

That hides their neuroses over pitch innacuracies.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

My undergrad major is in French horn. And I know every joke, VB.

Zoot is correct, but the conical aspect extends to the entire instrument, not just the mouthpiece.

The trumpet has a more brilliant sound because it is cylindrical; the tubing stays generally the same diameter until the large flare near the end of the 4 1/2 feet.

The horn (nobody in the biz calls it French horn because it is actually German, as opposed to the English horn which is actually French) with a thumb trigger, hence a double horn, reaches 16 feet, and the from the mouthpiece to the bell the bore gradually increases in diameter - hence conical.

That produces the gorgeous mellow sound. (The flugelhorn and to some extent the cornet have a bit of that sound because the tubing is also conical.)

The hand in the bell? It is necessary, as the instrument is actually pitched 1/4 tone sharp to compensate.

Because of the length of the tubing the range is immense, and it also lands at a certain place in the harmonic register, which means it is notoriously inaccurate.

Example - for trumpets to play in their everyday range the distance between playing notes with the same fingering is a fifth, and then a fourth, and then smaller the higher you go.

For a horn player in their everyday range the distance is a third, then a second, and so on, and there is a solid octave of notes you can play with the same fingerings right next to each other.

Sucks.

But - John Williams loves the horn - and it shows in everything he's written.



Edited to add - and YES horn players know just what to do with their lips.

Thanks Sarahh.

I love most of Williams's scores

 

[ElizabethWest]

I just know they impart a quality to the sound that isn't like the rest of the horns and that makes me really shiver in pleasure.

Rich and smooth, like a fine brandy.

Or Prince Charming....

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Thanks, Sarah. I wasn't sure about the conical bore. Saxophones have a conical bore too, while clarinets are cylindrical.

I think a lot of movue composers are underrated. I'm not that big on John Williams, but I think Henry Mancini was a genius, and he used horns like crazy too.

And isn't it true that the horn is the only brass that plays in a 'wind quintet'? Simply because it blends so well.

I don't know about horn players as assholes. I think that, among most serious musicians, that title goes to singers (it's true in pop music as well.)

 

[Guest]

Thanks, Sarah. I wasn't sure about the conical bore. Saxophones have a conical bore too, while clarinets are cylindrical.

I think a lot of movue composers are underrated. I'm not that big on John Williams, but I think Henry Mancini was a genius, and he used horns like crazy too.

And isn't it true that the horn is the only brass that plays in a 'wind quintet'? Simply because it blends so well.

I don't know about horn players as assholes. I think that, among most serious musicians, that title goes to singers (it's true in pop music as well.)

Saxophones were forbidden to play in the church for awhile because of their - powerful - sound. I suppose that aura still lingers on a bit, but it is certainly the baby of the woodwinds.

I think John Williams has done incredible things, among them to reintroduce classical music to an entire generation. People love the movies, and they wind up loving the music. Some are surprised when they realize just how much Williams has created - from Harry Potter all the way back to the Lost in Space TV show theme music when he was writing as "Johnny Williams."

And if you know his work well, you can easily hear crossover from movie to movie. Example of the Harry Potter Prisoner of Az on HBO right now. The other day I was paying scant attention and caught snake music from Raiders of the Lost Ark interwoven during a scene with a snake in Harry Potter. He's sneaky.

And that reminds me thematically of Wagner, and his Ring Cycle, and how all the themes twine during the four operas. (Understand I'm not comparing Williams to Wagner, but merely in a thematic way.)

I think Tchaikowsky's work showcases the romantic aspects of the horn, Dvorak taunts the listener (and he's oh-so-fun to play), Wagner is - odd - and never feels quite the same from piece to piece. Holst is kick-ass, especially in The Planets -

Because the horn can blend with woodwinds and also lead the brass section it is a useful tool for composers.

AND lots of horn players are assholes. We can't help it.

And did I mention I also have a degree in voice?

I think I know more singer jokes than any other type of musician joke around, though.


How can you distinguish between an opera diva and a pit bull?

The singer is the one wearing lipstick.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Saxophones were forbidden to play in the church for awhile because of their - powerful - sound. I suppose that aura still lingers on a bit, but it is certainly the baby of the woodwinds.

I think John Williams has done incredible things, among them to reintroduce classical music to an entire generation. People love the movies, and they wind up loving the music. Some are surprised when they realize just how much Williams has created - from Harry Potter all the way back to the Lost in Space TV show theme music when he was writing as "Johnny Williams."

And if you know his work well, you can easily hear crossover from movie to movie. Example of the Harry Potter Prisoner of Az on HBO right now. The other day I was paying scant attention and caught snake music from Raiders of the Lost Ark interwoven during a scene with a snake in Harry Potter. He's sneaky.

And that reminds me thematically of Wagner, and his Ring Cycle, and how all the themes twine during the four operas. (Understand I'm not comparing Williams to Wagner, but merely in a thematic way.)

I think Tchaikowsky's work showcases the romantic aspects of the horn, Dvorak taunts the listener (and he's oh-so-fun to play), Wagner is - odd - and never feels quite the same from piece to piece. Holst is kick-ass, especially in The Planets -

Because the horn can blend with woodwinds and also lead the brass section it is a useful tool for composers.

AND lots of horn players are assholes. We can't help it.

And did I mention I also have a degree in voice?

I think I know more singer jokes than any other type of musician joke around, though.


How can you distinguish between an opera diva and a pit bull?

The singer is the one wearing lipstick.

Knew I liked Dvorack for a reason

 

[cantdog]

The timbre of the horn is changed by the hand thrust into the bell. The muting makes French horn give a sourceless "blending" sound.

 

[Guest]

The timbre of the horn is changed by the hand thrust into the bell. The muting makes French horn give a sourceless "blending" sound.

Yes, but not as much as you'd think.

Most players could control the quality of their sound and their intonation without using their hand. But it is required by instrument design (and I guess it's habit now). Normally, the hand is cupped, like doing a swimmer's crawl, and it actually lifts the bell off the performer's leg - outside of hand to top inside of bell.

Horn players use mutes like trumpet players when called for but we can actually do something else. Stopped horn, written in a variety of languages but usually notated with a plus sign above for stopped and a zero for open, is when you actually close off the entire bell. This necessitates a change in fingerings (you must transpose written notes down half a step and play them on the F side of the horn) and it makes a very cool loud brassy buzzzzz. This technique exists in classical as well as more modern music.

But it is the mellow sound that made me fall in love with the instrument from the first time I heard Princess Leia's theme. When I started band I told the guy I wanted to play that instrument.

 

[rgraham666]

Bagpipes do it for me.

 

[Guest]

Bagpipes do it for me.

 

[NoJo]

Thanks, Sarah. I wasn't sure about the conical bore. Saxophones have a conical bore too, while clarinets are cylindrical.

I think a lot of movue composers are underrated. I'm not that big on John Williams, but I think Henry Mancini was a genius, and he used horns like crazy too.

And isn't it true that the horn is the only brass that plays in a 'wind quintet'? Simply because it blends so well.

I don't know about horn players as assholes. I think that, among most serious musicians, that title goes to singers (it's true in pop music as well.)

I just love Andre Previn's score to "North By North-West". But Henry Mancini was amazing. Tops in my book is Nino Rota (just about every Fellini Film, + The Godfather).

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Off the wall today, but I've been listening to some movie scores and clasical.

What is it about French horns that make them so powerful in an orchestral piece? Ilove music in general and Classical in particular, but aytime I hear classical with a strong horn section it perks me right up, almost like Ampheatmines, it just gets me going. anyone know?

Strings do it for me.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

That hides their neuroses over pitch innacuracies.

Yesss!

I loved "bad hand days" myself where for whatever reason despite how many days in a row you have done the same thing flawlessly, you just can't seem to find the position again where it is both comfortable and at the right tone and pitch.

The tone also blends well naturally, but also makes a mean solo when it stands out.

I think it's the fact that we're often slapped right in front of the trumpets that adds to the assholicness and short tempers. That and the mind control rays from the instrument. Horns are good. Horns are your friend. Join us.