What is God?

[curious2c]

I have had way too much time on my hands for the last month...

Heres my question for you all to debate.


What if god as in any religion would express the greater being, does not exist as those religions so state? What if there is no 'God' or Heaven, or Nirvana, or other 'greater place after life?

What if our 'souls' go to a collective being when we die here on earth and that is 'heaven' or nirvana'?

Now the biggest question...

How would you prove that your life after death was not in tune with most all religions as they see God and Heaven?

 

[Starfish]

What, do you mean if I could come back after I died and do anything to let people know that religion is bunk?

Well, I guess I'd wait till the next Kiss reunion and do the world a favor, possess each one and send them running off cliffs like little lemurs.


Wait, that may actually make people think there is a god. Sorry, never mind.

 

[intrigued]

Following your questions as stated...in the end, I wonder how it will matter?

If you've lived believing in a God and died believing in a God, yet there was no such God....well...what is lost?

I don't understand your last paragraph at all.

 

[plasticman33]

Hmmmmm, how about the theory that there is limited life force upon this planet. It makes up all living things from the largest blue whale to the smallest bacteria, as well as trees, fungus, mold and other plants. When you die the life force you possess is reincarnated or recycled into another life form.

You may come back as a dandelion!

 

[curious2c]

Following your questions as stated...in the end, I wonder how it will matter?

If you've lived believing in a God and died believing in a God, yet there was no such God....well...what is lost?

I don't understand your last paragraph at all.

I guess in my own stupid way,I was trying to tie the prior questions to the final one. If you discovered that God was the 'collective' souls of all who have gone on...I don't think that most religions would like that. Mainly because God is seen as a single all powerful being, not as a 'collective' of all who have lived here before. It would mean in effect, that WE are God. Not 'like' God.

And, if you die and find out the answers, yes it could make a difference to your soul. Perhaps that is why some souls are said to be wandering on earth, lost to where they belong.

 

[TxBelle]

What if our 'souls' go to a collective being when we die here on earth and that is 'heaven' or nirvana'?

Then we would be Borg. That's not a bad thing though. I wouldn't mind half of the people on the Lit Board making it to the Borg mother ship......could you imagine all the extasy? Everyone of us that jacked ourselves off at any given time would be sharing those thoughts and feelings with everyone else in "heaven". It would be a massive orgy all the time!...Or along the lines of becoming a collective being.......Our collective self would be in a constant state of arousal. Gives new meaning to the term, "I wanna die" huh?

For a quick peek at the similarities between modern christianity and the borg go here

As for proving anything well.....that's gonna be hard. I could rant about various religions and their insufficiant explanations of heaven or life after death but that's not going to prove anything except how fucked up their concepts of the subject are.

"I am the beginning. The end. The one who is many. I am the Borg... I am the Collective. I bring order to chaos."

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely."

Edited because I couldn't get that damn link to work

 

[curious2c]

Hmmmmm, how about the theory that there is limited life force upon this planet. It makes up all living things from the largest blue whale to the smallest bacteria, as well as trees, fungus, mold and other plants. When you die the life force you possess is reincarnated or recycled into another life form.

You may come back as a dandelion!

Ok, that would follow the scientific logic that matter can neither be created or destroyed, only changed to another form.

I guess that is another way to look at it. Reincarnation is something that I am not really familiar with, other than the misconceptions that float around from time to time. There may be more to it than meets the eye, since not only do Far Eastern and other religions believe it, so do many Native American beliefs too.

So...what if your change is to become of the 'collective souls' instead of becoming a new form on earth? could that small change affect what you believe now, saying that you could know about it now, and make assumptions about it?
(I would like to point out again that reincarnation based beliefs are foreign to me as of yet...I am shooting in the dark here, which is not recommended ever.)

 

[intrigued]

I guess in my own stupid way,I was trying to tie the prior questions to the final one. If you discovered that God was the 'collective' souls of all who have gone on...I don't think that most religions would like that. Mainly because God is seen as a single all powerful being, not as a 'collective' of all who have lived here before. It would mean in effect, that WE are God. Not 'like' God.

And, if you die and find out the answers, yes it could make a difference to your soul. Perhaps that is why some souls are said to be wandering on earth, lost to where they belong.

Ok. I think I'll bow out now, this has never been my forte as my belief is felt passionately, and I can't think in terms of "what if's" when it comes to something like this. I think the best you can do is live your beliefs and live them well.

Your "way" is not stupid.

 

[curious2c]

Re: Re: What is God?

Then we would be Borg. That's not a bad thing though. I wouldn't mind half of the people on the Lit Board making it to the Borg mother ship......could you imagine all the extasy? Everyone of us that jacked ourselves off at any given time would be sharing those thoughts and feelings with everyone else in "heaven". It would be a massive orgy all the time!...Or along the lines of becoming a collective being.......Our collective self would be in a constant state of arousal. Gives new meaning to the term, "I wanna die" huh?

For a quick peek at the similarities between modern christianity adn the borg go URL=http://www.gate.com/~zardoz/heaven.htm]here[/URL]

As for proving anything well.....that's gonna be hard. I could rant about various religions and their insufficiant explanations of heaven or life after death but that's not going to prove anything except how fucked up their concepts of the subject are.

Since I am a trekkie of sorts, I knew that this may come up. My intent was not to show a collective as a 'borg' in this instance, even though I knew that it was a direction it could go to. I was thinking of the collective as a group of souls, not a physical being or entity.

Now, however, you have brought out something else. I could see where a borg collective would be very interesting to be a part of. the only problem is the loss of 'self' to the collective. But maybe...that would happen in the other collective I so poorly attempted to bring out here.

Proving it...well that was a way to excerise the mind to see if one could come up with a lucid and strong argument for or against that whole idea. I was or have been wondering for some time where exactly did the bible come from, other than from men who were writers of their day and age? Since that is probably the way it came about, I wonder what beliefs they used to bring out their ideas, and how well they were accepted in their respective times.

 

[plasticman33]

Using the theory of limited life force, the 'collective souls' theory wouldn't stand up, that would be detrimental to the continuence of life, because you would be reducing the amount of available 'life force'.

I wonder what I'd feel like if I came back as slime mold?

 

[curious2c]

Using the theory of limited life force, the 'collective souls' theory wouldn't stand up, that would be detrimental to the continuence of life, because you would be reducing the amount of available 'life force'.

I wonder what I'd feel like if I came back as slime mold?

Unless the collective was there to start with and a part of the circle. How else would the transference occur? Wouldn't the soul from one have to hold for a bit before transferring to another form? The collective may be a huge holding...well...tank (for lack of a better word right now), and as 'energy' is needed for other forms it can be withdrawn to form that...'form'. Damn, I need to improve my volcabulary some more.

 

[plasticman33]

Ahhhh, maybe that's purgatory! The great holding tank of life force!

 

[TxBelle]

Re: Re: Re: What is God?

I was thinking of the collective as a group of souls, not a physical being or entity.

Now, however, you have brought out something else. I could see where a borg collective would be very interesting to be a part of. the only problem is the loss of 'self' to the collective.

Perhaps the Borg collective idea could be modified to include an individual idea of "self". Then again our relative idea of "self" could be something different altogether when viewed from the perspective of an omniscient being.

What if our self was nothing more than kindness, joy, laughter, and goodwill? Could an omnipotent power extract that and create a utopia? Could that same power discard the hate and ignorance in us and vanquish it back into a material existance? Could that hatred and ignorance then be recycled again and again until it becomes something usable in that being's realm. Thereby feeding the "selves" in that realm making it constantly better, bigger, stronger, healthier...and ultimately multiorgasmic.

 

[glorfindale39]

Oh boy, here we go. J The idea of the existence of god has more to do with human psychology and sociology then it does with actual physical realities. There are endless debates on the nature of faith and spirituality. (Two distinctly different things btw) This includes the nature of “what is god” It is strongly dependant on the belief system. Though I find the debate about what is god as fruitful as a debate on what dragons are like. Neither have proof of existence, so make it up, it is a myth after all. Lets think about the nature of belief in god if we are going to question the merits of his existence or not, for only belief/disbelief has supposed consequences.

Strong Atheists believe there is positively no god, though they have no proof. This belief is thus as faith based as the theists belief in god.

Strong Agnostics believe that the existence or non existence of god can never be proven by the nature of the question at hand, and so choose to say a decision is impossible.

There are a dozen or so different grades of these types of views that all have there merit, and reasons for there belief structure, though few of them are based on rational thought. My person favorite is the agnostic atheist. The agnostic atheist does not believe in god because there is no proof of the existence of god, though they will accept his existence if proven. It is by far the most logical approach to religion, and the one that relies soly on empirical evidence.

Now that I am sure I have got half the board agitated, let me address what I think were the original questions.

What if god as in any religion would express the greater being, does not exist as those religions so state? What if there is no 'God' or Heaven, or Nirvana, or other 'greater place after life?

This question can be asked both as what are the consequences of believing, and not believing in god. Pascal was fond of saying it was irrational not to believe in god, because if your wrong you loose nothing, while if don’t believe you go to hell, so it is irrational to not believe in god. However, this is a flawed argument. What religion do you follow? What doctrine? Which version of there sacred texts do you hold to? Not to mention this belief assumes each possibility holds equal probability, which is absurd. Last, most Christian religions state there god requires a degree of faith to be a true follower, which means if you follow to hedge your bets so to speak, you still gain nothing. Finally, there is the argument that if this godhead is as fair and just as he is mentioned to be in all the myth, then surely he will judge based on how you live you life, not following a religion. A god who sends good and kind atheists to hell is not one I would be interested in worshiping. So I would say it is a mute point weather there is a god or not, what is more pressing is what is your belief structure and what are the consequences of it.

What if our 'souls' go to a collective being when we die here on earth and that is 'heaven' or nirvana'?

I assume you mean something like a collective pool of energy, or do you mean to add to the substance of an actual god being? Either way, the question still has to be asked, what are the implications on daily life. I think this falls into the same argument I made above.

How would you prove that your life after death was not in tune with most all religions as they see God and Heaven?

Okay….Do you mean that an existence as a cosmic energy pool would somehow be in line with most religions? I admit I have a hard time making sense of what you are asking here. Most religions have a very definite idea of post life existence. It is pivotal to the nature of religion to provide something that comforts human insecurity, and one of the biggest is the fear of death. I would agree any kind of post life existence falls into the pattern of religious doctrine, but I would not say it “is in tune with most all religions.”

G.

 

[slowfingers1]

You will know when you die.

Until then, you cant change it, so why worry

 

[Spinaroonie]

God is the Generator

 

[Guest]

Michael Jordan
Dan Marino
Barry Bonds
Michael Jonson
Roy Jones Jr
Andre Aggasi
Stone Cold

 

[curious2c]

Oh boy, here we go. J The idea of the existence of god has more to do with human psychology and sociology then it does with actual physical realities. There are endless debates on the nature of faith and spirituality. (Two distinctly different things btw) This includes the nature of “what is god” It is strongly dependant on the belief system. Though I find the debate about what is god as fruitful as a debate on what dragons are like. Neither have proof of existence, so make it up, it is a myth after all. Lets think about the nature of belief in god if we are going to question the merits of his existence or not, for only belief/disbelief has supposed consequences.

Strong Atheists believe there is positively no god, though they have no proof. This belief is thus as faith based as the theists belief in god.

Strong Agnostics believe that the existence or non existence of god can never be proven by the nature of the question at hand, and so choose to say a decision is impossible.

There are a dozen or so different grades of these types of views that all have there merit, and reasons for there belief structure, though few of them are based on rational thought. My person favorite is the agnostic atheist. The agnostic atheist does not believe in god because there is no proof of the existence of god, though they will accept his existence if proven. It is by far the most logical approach to religion, and the one that relies soly on empirical evidence.

Now that I am sure I have got half the board agitated, let me address what I think were the original questions.



This question can be asked both as what are the consequences of believing, and not believing in god. Pascal was fond of saying it was irrational not to believe in god, because if your wrong you loose nothing, while if don’t believe you go to hell, so it is irrational to not believe in god. However, this is a flawed argument. What religion do you follow? What doctrine? Which version of there sacred texts do you hold to? Not to mention this belief assumes each possibility holds equal probability, which is absurd. Last, most Christian religions state there god requires a degree of faith to be a true follower, which means if you follow to hedge your bets so to speak, you still gain nothing. Finally, there is the argument that if this godhead is as fair and just as he is mentioned to be in all the myth, then surely he will judge based on how you live you life, not following a religion. A god who sends good and kind atheists to hell is not one I would be interested in worshiping. So I would say it is a mute point weather there is a god or not, what is more pressing is what is your belief structure and what are the consequences of it.


I assume you mean something like a collective pool of energy, or do you mean to add to the substance of an actual god being? Either way, the question still has to be asked, what are the implications on daily life. I think this falls into the same argument I made above.


Okay….Do you mean that an existence as a cosmic energy pool would somehow be in line with most religions? I admit I have a hard time making sense of what you are asking here. Most religions have a very definite idea of post life existence. It is pivotal to the nature of religion to provide something that comforts human insecurity, and one of the biggest is the fear of death. I would agree any kind of post life existence falls into the pattern of religious doctrine, but I would not say it “is in tune with most all religions.”

G.

My last question deals with the fact that in most religions when one achieves heaven or nirvana, one can do things and say things that they cannot while on earth. My interpetation of this is that in our 'heavenly' bodies, we are in a different form than while on earth. If that is the case...Is heaven a 'gathering' of souls? Or is it more like a holding area for what may be yet to come?

Perhaps CV is correct, and we become 'god' after recycling through enough times to 'get it' so to speak too.

 

[svenmn]

Read slowly and reflect

What is god?
The better question is.
Is there a god?
No there is not a God.
I know here it comes there must be a god, right.
Not if you try to reason things out objectively.

If god is everywhere and with everyone at one time then how does he do it?
He doesn’t, she does.
She is a collection of all of us.
She is the earth that gives us food, water, and shelter.
She is the sun that gives us warmth, light, and night.
She is the fire that burns in our hearts for others.
She is the child that looks upon everything with wonder.

Think of those moments in your life when you were in need of guidance.
Think of the voice inside, the settling touch on your arm; think in your mind who’s there.
She was.

As I have walked this life, for the things that have moved me. Giving all that I have in community and life for others taking risks of fireman. If god were a man looking back I never would have. But, she has moved me to walk the life I have for I know god is a woman.

She is combination of those who have chosen to follow.
I do not speak of religion, for that I have little knowledge.
I speak of nature. Life is a cycle we all will ride.
Birth and death are the beginning and end of all of us.
Each comes from the earth and return to the earth.
We came from god and return to god.
We are god and god is us.

So each day we should walk with her.
And we all do for she is the earth.


Svenmn

 

[ksmybuttons]

God is man's creation to have control over other people's behavior.

I am of the belief that it really doesn't matter. Choose what you want. If you need to believe, fine. If you don't want to believe fine. How you live is what is important not what happens after you live.

Even with this belief system, I think more than three or four options ahead in video games, chess, pool and life.

 

[TxBelle]

If any of you are interested you can visitinfidels.org
to discuss various philosophical aspects concerning God and religion. Please explore the forums as they have a lot to offer in the way of discussion and feedback.


Hugs
Your fucking infidel.....Belle