What is Discipline?

[WrongVerb]

We focus a lot on the other aspects of BDSM here, but I haven't seen much talk about Discipline. How do you define Discipline? Do we even define Discipline as a noun or a verb? Or both?

For transgressions, I prefer the idea of a 'discipline' rather than a punishment. To me, punishment implies carrying out a vengeance of some kind, while implementing a Discipline implies teaching or molding of behavior.

I'm just wondering, how do others see this aspect of BDSM?

 

[DVS]

Maybe izod can answer that question for you.

 

[catalina_francisco]

What you might find around here is that some have a big aversion to the term 'punishment', but find 'discipline'more acceptable. For me I think both have their place, but that is also subjective to the relationship you are in. Discipline can be both a noun and verb, and play a necessary part in reaching the intended goal for all involved. Punishment can be about vengeance as you say, and for some of us that is not such a 'no-way' place to go. Sometimes I think it is too much about putting value in the terminology and forcing a particular meaning on it, than actually going with what is right for those involved and the moment.

Catalina

 

[KoPilot]

Both imply a "rational" reasoning behind it-- as in, not doing it "just because" the PYL feels like it.

In my relationship, if someone has transgressed, then we sit down and talk about it like adults. All the kinky stuff that happens doesn't need any rhyme or reason; S does it because he feels like it.

 

[catalina_francisco]

In my relationship, if someone has transgressed, then we sit down and talk about it like adults.

I think you will find for most here this is how it happens, and talking is taken as a given more so than proof of adulthhood, especially for those of us who crossed that milestone decades ago and no longer think about it...lol, of course that might not be quite true during school holidays when the kids invade and come here for amusement.

Catalina

 

[ownedsubgal]

discipline is both a noun and a verb. in my relationship it is used when needed, but not to be confused with punishment. discipline (verb) is a process of teaching and learning, with the end goal of my growing into a better, stronger, more well-focused slave. through discipline i gain self-discipline (noun). punishment is a penance and retribution, when i have erred in some notable fashion. it is also a cleansing, and necessary for us both in order to face tomorrow unburdened by guilt or self-defeat on my part, or frustration and disappointment on his.

Both imply a "rational" reasoning behind it-- as in, not doing it "just because" the PYL feels like it.

In my relationship, if someone has transgressed, then we sit down and talk about it like adults. All the kinky stuff that happens doesn't need any rhyme or reason; S does it because he feels like it.

so the implication here is that the presence of discipline or punishment in a dynamic indicates that 1. it is merely a thinly-veiled guise for "kink," and 2. there is no adult discussion and resolution of issues? interesting how you seem to know it all, but in this at least you are greatly mistaken.

 

[WrongVerb]

discipline is both a noun and a verb. in my relationship it is used when needed, but not to be confused with punishment. discipline (verb) is a process of teaching and learning, with the end goal of my growing into a better, stronger, more well-focused slave. through discipline i gain self-discipline (noun). punishment is a penance and retribution, when i have erred in some notable fashion. it is also a cleansing, and necessary for us both in order to face tomorrow unburdened by guilt or self-defeat on my part, or frustration and disappointment on his.

So would you say punishment happens because of some willful misconduct on your part, while discipline is more integrated with training of some kind?

 

[Sir_Winston54]

We focus a lot on the other aspects of BDSM here, but I haven't seen much talk about Discipline. How do you define Discipline? Do we even define Discipline as a noun or a verb? Or both?

"Discipline," depending on its instant usage, can be either noun or verb. Its definitions (in either or both cases) can be found in many places, including Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary for definitions, and Merriam-Webster's Thesaurus for synonyms, antonyms, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

For transgressions, I prefer the idea of a 'discipline' rather than a punishment. To me, punishment implies carrying out a vengeance of some kind, while implementing a Discipline implies teaching or molding of behavior.

The Thesaurus (linked above) strongly implies that the etymological relationship between the two (discipline, punishment) is very strong, given the use of "chastisement," "correction," "penalty" and "wrath" in the second set of synonyms for discipline:

suffering, loss, or hardship imposed in response to a crime or offense <harsh discipline was imposed to keep order within the ranks>
Synonyms: castigation, chastisement, comeuppance, correction, desert(s), discipline, nemesis, penalty, wrath​

I'm just wondering, how do others see this aspect of BDSM?

Given a certain degree of "controversy" concerning labels in this forum of late, I have to wonder why you're wondering about others' opinions rather than celebrating (probably primarily within yourself/your relationship) the fact that your personal opinions about this pair of words, and the activities associated with them, seem to work for you and your partner(s).

 

[Stella_Omega]

I don't do discipline, personally. I don't much care to change how a sub comports themselves in general, I don't have especial standards for that-- but then, I'm not a dom.

I've certainly done punishment, both in fun and in earnest.

 

[KoPilot]

so the implication here is that the presence of discipline or punishment in a dynamic indicates that 1. it is merely a thinly-veiled guise for "kink," and 2. there is no adult discussion and resolution of issues? interesting how you seem to know it all, but in this at least you are greatly mistaken.

I am always loth to accept beatings or berating that supposedly happen for some kind of "greater good", the purpose of which the all-knowing, all-powerful PYL maintains in the forefront of their mind but is often beyond the pyl's lowly scope. Most times, to me, it seems disingenuous to claim that punishments/discipline is always under every circumstance because PYL Knows Best™, and not because either party simply gets a kick out of it.

Italicized words are there to remind you that I never speak in absolutes.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I am always loth to accept beatings or berating that supposedly happen for some kind of "greater good", the purpose of which the all-knowing, all-powerful PYL maintains in the forefront of their mind but is often beyond the pyl's lowly scope. Most times, to me, it seems disingenuous to claim that punishments/discipline is always under every circumstance because PYL Knows Best™, and not because either party simply gets a kick out of it.

Italicized words are there to remind you that I never speak in absolutes.

I would think it is difficult to judge a claim as disingenuous without knowing the people involved unless basing your judgement on how you yourself perceive it shoud be which though right for you does not make it right for everyone. For us personally, punishment and discipline are not about kicks as we are not into confusing their value by his calling it punishment or discipline just because he feels like dealing out some pain or see me suffer.

Don't get me wrong, F is quite open about the fact he will dish it out just because he feels like it and enjoys it, or even simply because he needs the release it gives him, but he doesn't feel he needs to disguise it as punishment or discipline by giving it one of those names. Discipline and punishment for us are taken seriously and expected to have some real purpose. Similarly, if I am seriously craving pain, I don't need to do something in the hope he will punish me and by so doing giving me what I want without his knowing it, all I have to do is tell him how I am feeling and then he will decide if he wants to indulge my needs or not.

Catalina

 

[KoPilot]

I would think it is difficult to judge a claim as disingenuous without knowing the people involved unless basing your judgement on how you yourself perceive it shoud be which though right for you does not make it right for everyone.

I dunno, can you make that claim without knowing me and the way I think?

Anyways, to put it simply:

Do I "get" it? Yes.
Do I think it's kinda dumb? Yes.
Does my opinion matter? Not one bit~

 

[catalina_francisco]

I dunno, can you make that claim without knowing me and the way I think?

Anyways, to put it simply:

Do I "get" it? Yes.
Do I think it's kinda dumb? Yes.
Does my opinion matter? Not one bit~

I'm just going by what you said.

Most times, to me, it seems disingenuous to claim that punishments/discipline is always under every circumstance because PYL Knows Best™, and not because either party simply gets a kick out of it.

Perhaps I missed it if it was meant as a joke and not the way you are seeing others who do take it seriously 100% of the time they employ it.

Catalina

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm just going by what you said.



Perhaps I missed it if it was meant as a joke and not the way you are seeing others who do take it seriously 100% of the time they employ it.

Catalina

hey, I'm with KoPilot.

Taking it 100% of the time seriously? I believe those people when they say so. I think it's kinda disengenious. My opinion doesn't matter.

 

[DVS]

We focus a lot on the other aspects of BDSM here, but I haven't seen much talk about Discipline. How do you define Discipline? Do we even define Discipline as a noun or a verb? Or both?

For transgressions, I prefer the idea of a 'discipline' rather than a punishment. To me, punishment implies carrying out a vengeance of some kind, while implementing a Discipline implies teaching or molding of behavior.

I'm just wondering, how do others see this aspect of BDSM?

Discipline is different from punishment because it teaches the pyl to learn from their mistakes rather than making them suffer for them. Punishment actually shifts the focus from the lesson that needs to be learned to who is in control. As a result, punishment focuses on the PYL being responsible for controlling a pyl's behavior, rather than the pyl controlling his/her own behavior, which is the focus of discipline.

I'm not into labels and I'm not really into the discipline/punishment debate, either. I understand the desire or need for it in some relationships, but I tend to be weird when it comes to some things in the lifestyle. In my world, my partner is an equal so normal communication between two people is how I wish to resolve issues within a relationship.

The closest I get to discipline or punishment is a play scene. But while a play scene full of bondage devices, paddles, floggers, canes and an assortment of electrical toys might be seen as inflicting punishment, it's just person "PYL" fulfilling his desires by giving person "pyl" what she desires.

If you want to discipline, use it as a teaching tool. But if you feel punishment is necessary, keep in mind that what you think you're teaching might not be what the pyl is learning.

 

[catalina_francisco]

hey, I'm with KoPilot.

Taking it 100% of the time seriously? I believe those people when they say so. I think it's kinda disengenious. My opinion doesn't matter.

Different strokes for different folks. It works for some to have play punishment, just for us we prefer to keep punishment and discipline as understood for what it is and not blur the boundaries. LOL, F was honest about his ultra sadistic side from the start which was one of the things which caught my interest....no need to excuse it as punishment or anything other than him doing as he pleases and enjoying it. On the other hand, neither of us enjoy punishment or discipline.

Catalina

 

[KoPilot]

I'm just going by what you said.



Perhaps I missed it if it was meant as a joke and not the way you are seeing others who do take it seriously 100% of the time they employ it.

Catalina

I never claimed I thought that was the case for everyone... so more along the lines of what Stella said. But for the folks who are in your position and of your mind, I am accepting of it without agreeing with it. And again, take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

punishment is a penance and retribution, when i have erred in some notable fashion. it is also a cleansing, and necessary for us both in order to face tomorrow unburdened by guilt or self-defeat on my part, or frustration and disappointment on his.

It really doesn't occur often for me, but when it does, it's like this.

We both need to work it out of our system. He needs to vent, and work out his frustration/disappointment/anger. I need a clearly defined endpoint to the drama at hand so I can get past it, because I have a great capacity to beat myself up endlessly for a time afterwards.

But like I said, it's a rare thing. Discipline pops up much more regularly, and it's usually when he's away, and it's often mostly a 'remind you of your place' kind of thing.

 

[Etoile]

discipline is both a noun and a verb. in my relationship it is used when needed, but not to be confused with punishment. discipline (verb) is a process of teaching and learning, with the end goal of my growing into a better, stronger, more well-focused slave. through discipline i gain self-discipline (noun). punishment is a penance and retribution, when i have erred in some notable fashion. it is also a cleansing, and necessary for us both in order to face tomorrow unburdened by guilt or self-defeat on my part, or frustration and disappointment on his.

Exactly this.

 

[Felix_Jones]

This was a glib definition and a bit of corporate propaganda, but I semi-liked it. Discipline is how you behave when you think that nobody's watching.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

This was a glib definition and a bit of corporate propaganda, but I semi-liked it. Discipline is how you behave when you think that nobody's watching.

Wouldn't that more be a definition of self-discipline?

 

[Felix_Jones]

Wouldn't that more be a definition of self-discipline?

I didn't realize I had to qualify it.