What is cheating?

[boot lover]

If your SO doesn't know about it, and/or wouldn't approve of it, it's cheating.

I agree to this statement with all my heart and soul.For me when my wife said she was leaving me for another man,it wasn't the "sex" part that I was distraught about. It was the delibrate breach of trust that hurt sssoooo much.Still does.

Has he breached your trust??? Will he make a genuine atempt to build back that trust??? Sounds not likely

 

[burrish]

I won't reply to this one, I am sure that I have worn my story out long ago. But I did go thru something like what you are going thru but worse, if you would like to know about it just do a search for my posts and it will be there.
heather

 

[GreenEyedGodess]

Yeah, I wouldn't be cool with my SO going out on "platonic" dates either. It just sounds like a load of bullshit to me, like claiming it wasn't sex, because no one had an orgasm. Then again the concept of cheating is different for everyone. It does sound like you really love him, and love makes you do crazy things, so the email thing while questionable, is understandable. Best of luck.

 

[frisky]

The fact that a lot of people have varying opinions on what is considered to be cheating causes quite a few problems. Generally speaking when confronted with such a situation I just think 'would I do this with my grandmother?'. Works every time.

 

[AnotherCatullus]

If your SO doesn't know about it, and/or wouldn't approve of it, it's cheating.

Actually, although I've been in the losing end of a long affair my lover's had with someone else, I don't think this definition is right. I think in any relationship there has to be room for privacy, for a partner to be able to do something without the other partner's knowledge... even something they think mught hurt the other partner if they knew. The question is what happens when they do come to know. The issue for Shele really isn't about cheating. It's whether he's hurt her too much and what happens when he doesn't stop hurting. My lover told me I shouldn't be hurt. So what! I was, and she couldn't (doesn't want to) understand that.

 

[shele]

Another Catullus...thank you for your posts...I think you get where I am coming from...maybe because you are going through something similar...I know what the right answers are..have given them out to others myself..dump the guy ..he's no good all that...god but its so hard...keep him or dump him...either way there is pain.

I love him and want to make this work..but its so hard..and just not so sure his heart is in it...since this has happened there has been a distance between us..an awkwardness....maybe its just time to move on...but I'm just so tired of moving on..I love him, I am a good person, would never do anything to intentional hurt him..I play by the rules..I just would like to be happy..so hard to just be happy...I don't understand it sometimes. I just don't know if its worth the fight anymore..maybe I am just making both of us miserable in the process.

Sorry I'll stop whining now...

Thanks everyone again..

-shele

 

[marge_w]

from my point of view cheating is if you do something that you KNOW OR BELIEVE will hurt your s/o

you might not have set boundaries but if you believe your other half to see this as an exclusive relationship and you breach that....then you have cheated.

i have done things that at the time i didnt think my babe would mind about but when we talked about them afterward he was hurt.........i would never repeat them and i'm still feeling guilty now after many months.

only you know if he has hurt you to the point you cant take any more, but i do think he needs to respect you and your relationship a lil bit more than he does because your feelings dont seem to matter to him at all as long as he gets his quota of ass

lotsa huggs

marge

 

[SweetErika]

Both my husband and I hate nothing more than hurting eachother or anyone else, so we've chosen the definition route. I was pretty shocked when he said he considered cyber or phone sex (without his consent) cheating, but I'm glad I know so I don't ever cross that line. Anytime a situation comes up, we just talk about our feelings honestly. Everyone makes a mistake once in awhile, but repeat offenses are not acceptable to either of us. It all boils down to the fact that we always try to do the higher good for the other person, and that's been a great barometer so far. If I get an inkling that he wouldn't consent or support me doing something, I just don't do it. If either of us ever feels like going outside of the relationship to have physical or emotional needs met, we've agreed to talk about it and give the other person the chance to meet those needs first.

Shele, it sounds like you know what you need to do to preserve yourself in this whole thing. If he really loves you, why would he knowingly do things that cause you so much pain? IMHO, there are many men out there who will give you the love, trust, and respect you deserve. Good luck!

 

[GreenEyedGodess]

Another Catullus...thank you for your posts...I think you get where I am coming from...maybe because you are going through something similar...I know what the right answers are..have given them out to others myself..dump the guy ..he's no good all that...god but its so hard...keep him or dump him...either way there is pain.

I love him and want to make this work..but its so hard..and just not so sure his heart is in it...since this has happened there has been a distance between us..an awkwardness....maybe its just time to move on...but I'm just so tired of moving on..I love him, I am a good person, would never do anything to intentional hurt him..I play by the rules..I just would like to be happy..so hard to just be happy...I don't understand it sometimes. I just don't know if its worth the fight anymore..maybe I am just making both of us miserable in the process.

Sorry I'll stop whining now...

Thanks everyone again..

-shele

I know it's hard to move on, but if he's constantly doing this to you, it's time for you to put your foot down, and stand up for yourself. It's so easy to be a doormat when you're in love and not even see it. You should take control of your destiny, and focus on being the woman you want to be with or without him. If he's smart, he'll realize how wonderful you are, and become a better man for you.

 

[AnotherCatullus]

These guys are right, of course. The thing to remember is that the life where you thrive best may not be the one where you're happy all the time. A good life can be a struggle, especially with yourself. There are good men out there, but it may take you a long time to find the right one. Still, you'll be living with complete conviction instead of constantly waiting for life to get better. you'll be an agent, not a patient. It's really the only way.

Now, AC. Just take your own counsel, boy!

 

[FastFastr]

I think you have to have a certain degree of trust or you should not be in the relationship... if you date and then agree to go further either by becoming exclusive to each other, moving in together or getting married, then you should trust that if a member of the opposite sex (or same sex) calls, it is not automatically a potentially a date.

This also means that every time your SO checks out another person's body it doesn't mean their about to leave you... "it's ok to go shopping, as long as you don't buy anything." So just relax.

ON THE OTHER HAND...

If your SO is evasive or defensive when asked questions about suddenly working late or spending time with a new friend, your alarm should sound.

BOTH of you should know your bounderies... some couples have no problems with men having female friends (and vice-versa) some don't. Some swing. Most don't. As long as you both agree to the same set of "rules" and stick by them you should be ok.

Cheating to me is anything that breaks the rules that have been set within your relationship.

This goes back to the BS that oral sex really isn't sex. My answer to that goes like this.... You walk in from work and your wife is on her knees giving a BJ to another man.

Do you say...
(1) "when you're done, can you turn take out the trash and walk the dog"

(2) "WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON IN HERE?!?!?!"

'Nuf said.

 

[xtreme_senses]

cheating isn't physical

It's the moment you decide that you are going to do something sexual (mentally sexual as well) with another person. The act of doing it is almost after the fact.

 

[kinky_str8_guy]

MOVE ON...

This whole thread is just fascinating. When I committed to my lover (moved in, merged finances, started a family, etc.) I said, if you ever feel the need to see someone else just make sure I don't know about it. I meant a quick fling or something like that - a pressure release. Well she did, didn't tell me, but obviously after a while I figured it out. So far it's not cheating. But then after I knew and she knew i knew, she wanted to carry on. We fought about it, but it was a battle I was always going to lose. Now she's had another lover for two years.

I think it's cheating on our emotional commitment. She says she wants to stay with me, bbut she wants to be allowed to have this other outlet.

Shele, i don;t know what to say to those people her ewho say you're not doing yourself any favors. You find someone you love, and you have to choose between the pain they cause you and the pain and fear of leaving them. It's scary. I have children too, which doesn;t help. But so far I haven't stayed in the relationship "for the children", I've stayed to fight for my lover.

Don't know if this helps. Time I posted something happier.

_____________

It sounds to me like there are two different, and asymmetrical, relationships going on here... regardless of the living arrangements, your SO is having a non-exclusive dating relationship with you... I assume that she has no objection if you fuck around on the side as well... while you're attempting to have a committed relationship with her.

You totally lost me on this... if you really want to be happier you need to move on and find someone that will respect you... your current SO obviously doesn't respect you or your needs.

MOVE ON... what's there to fight for? if you have children with this person obviously you'll need to have some sort of a civil relationship for the children's sake... other than that I'd suggest a complete break... I wouldn't even want this person as a casual friend. If there are children involved, IMHO the kids will be a lot better off learning that you need to stand up for what you beleive, that you can have a relationship (your NEXT really wonderful relationship which they'll observe) with a partner that is mature and based on respect, concern, and love for one another rather than the lesson you're teaching them by staying in a relationship wherein you're someone's emotional doormat.

Sorry if I sound harsh...

 

[English Lady]

To me, if he's gone out of his way to hide things from you then there is a problem. If he's just not even thought twice about telling you well then it probably is just an innocent thing. From what i can tell though its a case of the first not the later.

For my husband to cheat on me he would have to go somewhere with someone and not tell me about it. Simple as that. I don't care what happens between'em...the cheating is in doing something behind my back.

I think it is an integral part to all relationships to talk about what you definie as cheating and ocme to an agreement on what IS cheating...so both people know where the line is and not to over step it.

 

[vargas111]

I think it's cheating if you have or would have to lie about it. Doing whatever you know would hurt the other partner is he or she knew.

(Yes, I can think of some excetpions: partner is "unreasonably" jealous so that you cannot have coffe at work without him/her feeling "hurt" so you have to keep it secret/lie.)

 

[amalthia]

I think it's cheating if you have or would have to lie about it. Doing whatever you know would hurt the other partner is he or she knew.

Spot on - ty Vargas111

 

[Saytur]

I've always felt that cheating is anything that compromises the trust/intimacy in your relationship...

If you're banging a schoolbus full of migrant workers and your spouse is cool with it, you aren't cheating

If you're flirting with the secretary and fantasizing about making the beast with two backs and your spouse isn't cool with it... that's a whole other story

 

[kinky_str8_guy]

Cheating

I think it's cheating if you have or would have to lie about it. Doing whatever you know would hurt the other partner is <sic, 'if"> he or she knew.

(Yes, I can think of some excetpions: partner is "unreasonably" jealous so that you cannot have coffe at work without him/her feeling "hurt" so you have to keep it secret/lie.)

AND

cheating isn't physical - It's the moment you decide that you are going to do something sexual (mentally sexual as well) with another person. The act of doing it is almost after the fact.

I very much agree with both vargas' and xtreme_senses' definitions... however, the exceptions vargas listed have nothing to do with being "hurt"... they have everything to do with an unhealthy need to please on one side and an unhealthy need to control on the other side of the relationship.

My comment about the "coffee" exception assumes that the conversations between one partner and a third party (3P) isn't intimately sexual... not even a one-sided sexual conversation. That is to say, if you're having conversations wherein the 3P is saying that he/she "thinks that you're incredibly sexy...loves the shape of your ass...wishes that he/she had met you before hooking up with his wife/SO" or would "pursue you except that you're married" or similar exploratory comments and you don't advise him/her in ABSOLUTE terms that you're not available... that you value your relationship with your partner much more that the relationship with the 3P... and that you will end the relationship between you two if the exploratory comments continue, and then actually end the relationship if the comments continue... then in my book you have shown that you don't truely respect your commitment to your partner... you're not quite cheating yet but you've already taken the first step down that path... and your partner has very solid reasons to be concerned.

 

[sweetnpetite]

If the other person is hurt, you *have* done something wrong.

I've seen a lot of couples on talk shows where the guy (usually) will say, "It's not my problem, it's her* problem" It doesn't work that way in a relationship. If she has a problem with the relationship, it's *both* partners problem, even if the other person refuses to acknowlege it (which of course creates more problems rather than eliminating them)

The rule to live by is "would I do it if she/he where right here beside me?" along with "would I be pissed (hurt, ect) if she/he did the same thing" both of wich require honesty with yourself. I guess if you can't be honest with yourself, there's not much hope of honesty in a relationship.

If the person you love is hurt because of something you've done, you have to deal with that and not try to distance yourself from it. If you think it's ok to hurt someone just because you have different standards, then there is a fundametal problem in your relationship. Love doesn't mean having your way or following certain rules- but it does mean caring about each others feelings.

You have to let go of the idea of who is right or who is wrong, and focus on how each person *feels* about the situation. That is what you have to deal with and that is the real heart of the matter.

In the end, it's the feelings (emotions) that are the real issue anyway. And that alone is going to determine the fate of the relationship, not rules or which one of you is right.

If you win the argument but loose or damage the relationship, what have you gained. Don't focus on winning, focus on healing.

What good is it if 'the opperation was a success but the patient died?' Not much.

This is a situation where trying to be to 'rational' is the *worst* thing you can do. you have to release the urge to do so if you want to have any hope of fixing the problem.

I hope this helps and doesn't come to late.

Hi all..

My SO and I were having this conversation today and I wanted to get your opinions.

What do you consider cheating or breaking anothers trust...is it when actual physical contact is involved..kissing? intercourse? oral? Can it be a mental thing as well like having a secret relationship with another without your SO's knowledge or approval...like flirting, phone calls, emails or going out together even though there is no physical contact involved?

And if two people have different ideas on what cheating and trust is how do you move on when one believes they have been betrayed and the other believes they have done nothing wrong?

I appreciate any comments you have on this subject..thanks..

-shele

 

[sweetnpetite]

Re: Re: Re: What is cheating?

But we don't agree on what cheating is, that is the problem we are having, he thinks I am trying to keep him from talking to other people and I feel if you are making dates..even platonic ones if he doesn't tell me and I don't even know he is even talking to this woman through regular emails and phone calls then he has broken my trust.

Also it is a girl he said he would pursue for a relationship if I wasn't in the picture but because I am in the picture he was keeping it platonic..and to her credit she said no to even a platonic date because she knows he lives with me (she is a friend of my neighbors) and wouldn't meet him alone but would meet him if I was there.

There were other issues with him responding to personal ads..as well as setting up his own which he explained to me was just messing around and had no intention of actually meeting anyone. After I found that out I resorted to going through his email..heinous I know..but sometimes jealousy gets the better of us...and found out about this other girl.

thanks again..
-shele

Sounds like he's trying to rationalize.

He's either fooling around or trying to *or* he's got some really serious issues. Sounds like he has one foot in the relationship, and one foot out.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Another Catullus...thank you for your posts...I think you get where I am coming from...maybe because you are going through something similar...I know what the right answers are..have given them out to others myself..dump the guy ..he's no good all that...god but its so hard...keep him or dump him...either way there is pain.


-shele

I thik there is a fundamental differenence between "pain" and injury.

We sometimes cause ourselves pain when we stand up for ourselves, but I believe we *injure* ourselves when we don't.

this is obscured when we say things like 'pain either way' or 'miserable with him and miserable without him'

It's the difference between unhealthy pain (which will heal) and unhealthy pain. Sometimes we have to do the painful thing so that we can move on and be healthy.

 

[sxylegs]

Hi all..

My SO and I were having this conversation today and I wanted to get your opinions.

What do you consider cheating or breaking anothers trust...is it when actual physical contact is involved..kissing? intercourse? oral? Can it be a mental thing as well like having a secret relationship with another without your SO's knowledge or approval...like flirting, phone calls, emails or going out together even though there is no physical contact involved?

And if two people have different ideas on what cheating and trust is how do you move on when one believes they have been betrayed and the other believes they have done nothing wrong?

I appreciate any comments you have on this subject..thanks..

-shele

If you consider it cheating then it is for you......find out what he would think if it was you doing the same thing behind his back with another guy.....or if you got up in the middle of the night and had cybersex when he was lying in bed asleep.....that is how you will find out what he really thinks.......when asked my SO had a different set of rules for him and one for me.......he didnt get away with that.....

 

[Jaded Jayne]

I've been debating this issue with my now-ex-husband for the past three years. We decided to split up, but were still living together as husband and wife (it wasn't ugly, there were just issues that could not be resolved), and I was looking for an apartment. I moved out, and we did not get our "annulment" for another 2 1/2 years. He dated the entire time. He slept with two women the week we got married. He was "faithful" (as in he didn't poke anyone) for a couple of years), then started up again as soon as we decided to end it. According to him, that was the last day of our marriage. Twelve women total. That I know of. He had one girlfriend for over a year! Serious, meet the parents, family outings - type girlfriend. When I asked him why she didn't ask about his personal life, he said as soon as she started asking questions, he dumped her.

Besides, he justifies it by saying we got an annulment, not a divorce, therefore he didn't cheat. (Our religion plays a huge role in all of this, so any way that he can erase adultery, he thinks, will redeem his soul.)

How stupid am I? I had no idea. NONE. And he didn't even tell me until we had been separated for two years.

He could have saved himself a chunk of alimony and a big property settlement if he'd only kept his mouth shut. And honestly, I wish he hadn't told me. I would never want to go through that again. Nor would I put someone through that again.

I say cheated, he says not. Go figure.

 

[sxylegs]

I love him and want to make this work..but its so hard..and just not so sure his heart is in it...since this has happened there has been a distance between us..an awkwardness....maybe its just time to move on...but I'm just so tired of moving on..I love him, I am a good person, would never do anything to intentional hurt him..I play by the rules..I just would like to be happy..so hard to just be happy...I don't understand it sometimes. I just don't know if its worth the fight anymore..maybe I am just making both of us miserable in the process.



-shele

I have been there, and I was just where you are a few months ago.......I asked my SO to go to counceling and he agree.......My SO about fell off the chair when the (MALE) councelor told him that he was cheating even though he wasnt having sex with some of his ex girlfriends that he met to have a couple of drinks with......I have never been jealous, but I have never had my nose rubbed in it before. He would tell me how hot these women were and how he could do it again with them, and how some of them he really had strong feelings for. I almost wished he would shut up and F--- them...then I wouldnt have to hear that....

What the councelor did was make him responsible for hurting my feelings, made him realize that you dont treat people like that. He is teaching him respect for women.

Maybe if your guy would go, you could try some counceling before you just give up and go......it is working for us.....My boyfriend is a lot happier too....And so am I......If he meets with anybody anymore he takes me with him.......He is now working for us instead of working against us.....

Good Luck whatever you try to do!!!