What is cheating?

[shele]

Hi all..

My SO and I were having this conversation today and I wanted to get your opinions.

What do you consider cheating or breaking anothers trust...is it when actual physical contact is involved..kissing? intercourse? oral? Can it be a mental thing as well like having a secret relationship with another without your SO's knowledge or approval...like flirting, phone calls, emails or going out together even though there is no physical contact involved?

And if two people have different ideas on what cheating and trust is how do you move on when one believes they have been betrayed and the other believes they have done nothing wrong?

I appreciate any comments you have on this subject..thanks..

-shele

 

[Missingmeds]

In my case the moving on was called divorce. It was cheating the minute that he made the first phone call with the intent of meeting someone else.

 

[midwestyankee]

Hi all..

My SO and I were having this conversation today and I wanted to get your opinions.

What do you consider cheating or breaking anothers trust...is it when actual physical contact is involved..kissing? intercourse? oral? Can it be a mental thing as well like having a secret relationship with another without your SO's knowledge or approval...like flirting, phone calls, emails or going out together even though there is no physical contact involved?

And if two people have different ideas on what cheating and trust is how do you move on when one believes they have been betrayed and the other believes they have done nothing wrong?

I appreciate any comments you have on this subject..thanks..

-shele

Cheating is whatever you and your SO agree it is. If you don't talk about the issue, then it's nearly impossible to know if you're acting within the bounds of the relationship when you do meet someone else. It sounds like you have the perfect opportunity to set some boundaries together. What's right for one couple may not be right for the two of you at all. You must set your own boundaries.

 

[shele]

Re: Re: What is cheating?

Cheating is whatever you and your SO agree it is. If you don't talk about the issue, then it's nearly impossible to know if you're acting within the bounds of the relationship when you do meet someone else. It sounds like you have the perfect opportunity to set some boundaries together. What's right for one couple may not be right for the two of you at all. You must set your own boundaries.

But we don't agree on what cheating is, that is the problem we are having, he thinks I am trying to keep him from talking to other people and I feel if you are making dates..even platonic ones if he doesn't tell me and I don't even know he is even talking to this woman through regular emails and phone calls then he has broken my trust.

Also it is a girl he said he would pursue for a relationship if I wasn't in the picture but because I am in the picture he was keeping it platonic..and to her credit she said no to even a platonic date because she knows he lives with me (she is a friend of my neighbors) and wouldn't meet him alone but would meet him if I was there.

There were other issues with him responding to personal ads..as well as setting up his own which he explained to me was just messing around and had no intention of actually meeting anyone. After I found that out I resorted to going through his email..heinous I know..but sometimes jealousy gets the better of us...and found out about this other girl.

thanks again..
-shele

 

[fille]

Well, there's cheating and then there's being less than trustworthy. He may not have cheated, yet, but it sounds like he had it in mind. If your SO is trying to arrange dates with other women he is interested in and placing and responding to personal ads, I don't think you have to wait until he actually has sex with someone else to object.

Even if he didn't plan to cheat, doing those sorts of things behind your SO's back with the knowledge that she wouldn't want you to do so is, at least, somewhat disrespectful.

 

[shele]

Thanks for your responses...

I would also like to hear the otherside of the argument..if that is your opinion...if I am making a big deal out of nothing or whatever..

I am trying to understand this, hopefully mend the trust that has broken, both his and mine..as I betrayed him as well by searching through his email...and move on with our relationship, I love this man very dearly and would do anything for him except compromise myself and my beliefs..and if he wants to go he is free to, I don't believe in guilting someone in to staying with you for selfish reasons...but he says he wants to stay with me so I am trying to find a resolution that we both can live with.

Thanks again for everything..
-shele

 

[Ms_Lilith]

If your SO doesn't know about it, and/or wouldn't approve of it, it's cheating.

To some people, that means cyber sex. To other people, it means only intercourse. Still to other people, that could mean emotional stuff, while all physical is fair game.

*shrug*

I generally feel that my first statement is a pretty good definition.

 

[Ms_Lilith]

If your SO doesn't know about it, and/or wouldn't approve of it, it's cheating.

To some people, that means cyber sex. To other people, it means only intercourse. Still to other people, that could mean emotional stuff, while all physical is fair game.

*shrug*

I generally feel that my first statement is a pretty good definition.

 

[sheath]

If your SO doesn't know about it, and/or wouldn't approve of it, it's cheating.

I agree. It's just that simple.

A few points: Your 'betrayal' of his trust by going through his email does not in ANY way negate his betrayal...you were not the one who posted personal ads, had contact with someone else and didn't tell about it, or made plans for 'platonic' dates. Sounds to me like he gave you every reason in the world to go through that email account.

In my book, he cheated. There was a part of himself that he hid from you, a very important part, and there was a whole relationship brewing behind the scenes. That is NOT okay. If I were you, I would either demand counseling of some sort or end the relationship..***** is too short to wonder, you know?

Best of luck to you.

S.

 

[SimplySouthern]

Perhaps he doesn't think what he's done is wrong, however I can say this: He should be sorry for hurting you if not for doing what he did.

To me, this is an issue that needs to be worked out between the two of you. Set guidelines of what is and is not acceptable and stick to them. You need to have clear cut effects of his behavior. For example: If you do "this", I will do "that".

Good luck.

 

[warrior queen]

i'm not so sure you can define 'cheating' in the ways shown here.
it all rather depends on exactly how you view relationships.

for example - if your SO was making appointments (read: dates) with members of the opposite sex in a work capacity, would you still see that as cheating if they didn't tell you about them? or would you see that as an important part of networking?

and what about friends of the opposite sex, that you occasionally run into while out and about - do you always tell your significant other every detail about these chance encounters? what about if you set up to meet for coffee sometime? is that cheating also?

what about that person who you sometimes meet to have a gripe about your life with.... you know, the friend, but nothing more that you've had forever? do you run back home and tell your SO every little detail?

or, as most people do, have you settled on some exact boundary that should never be crossed? and if you have, is it really cheating if your SO does cross that boundary - but everyone else thinks YOU set the boundary in the wrong place?

cheating is an awfully difficult thing in a relationship, and couples should always endeavour to define the parameters before they run into difficulties.
but if that is not possible - and let's face it, many people don't do this! - then it comes down to a question of whether or not YOU feel betrayed enough to consider your partners' action as 'cheating' and whether or not YOU can live with it.

 

[shele]

i'm not so sure you can define 'cheating' in the ways shown here.
it all rather depends on exactly how you view relationships.

for example - if your SO was making appointments (read: dates) with members of the opposite sex in a work capacity, would you still see that as cheating if they didn't tell you about them? or would you see that as an important part of networking?

I have no problem with him setting up "dates" in a work compacity...though I think I should be informed of them be it man or woman...

and what about friends of the opposite sex, that you occasionally run into while out and about - do you always tell your significant other every detail about these chance encounters? what about if you set up to meet for coffee sometime? is that cheating also?

He has friends of the oppisite sex that he goes out with alone on a regular basis and on occasion with me, I have no issue with this...including a girl who he used to date. The difference being I know about these people, know when he is going out with them and believe that they are just friends and are going out to have a good time...this is something I have never stopped or even hinted to wanting him to stop doing....and yes I have friends of the oppisite sex though I can't say I ever go anywhere with him but he knows when I talk to them.

what about that person who you sometimes meet to have a gripe about your life with.... you know, the friend, but nothing more that you've had forever? do you run back home and tell your SO every little detail?

If I gripe it is to a woman..but I try to keep my friends out of my relationships..like I am doing now..looking for answers here rather than drag them into and have them hate him if things work out I don't want them to think negatively of him.

or, as most people do, have you settled on some exact boundary that should never be crossed? and if you have, is it really cheating if your SO does cross that boundary - but everyone else thinks YOU set the boundary in the wrong place?

yes I have settled on a boundry but I donot believe it is unreasonable..no dates with other women..no secret relationships...I under everyone flirts and thats fine..but when setting up dates is involved I think that has gone too far. And yes we have talked about it before as it has happened once before and I caught him and he knew my feelings on it and I thought we had come to a mutual decision..I guess I was mistaken.

cheating is an awfully difficult thing in a relationship, and couples should always endeavour to define the parameters before they run into difficulties.
but if that is not possible - and let's face it, many people don't do this! - then it comes down to a question of whether or not YOU feel betrayed enough to consider your partners' action as 'cheating' and whether or not YOU can live with it.

And thank you warrior for your response...I am just trying to give you some answers, not trying to be difficult..I want to work it out with him and you all are helping so much..thank you everyone

 

[Cathleen]

Shele, it certainly seems like cheating to me. I don't care for the word "cheating" but .......

He is being deceptive, I see a breach of trust and mistreatment to your relationship together. He may not see his actions as hurtful but clearly you are hurt. Our intentions matter.

I do think he needs to hear you, you need to express your thoughts and feelings - let him know you are hurt. Just because he does not feel he did anything to hurt you is immaterial, your feelings have been hurt and that needs to be addressed.

If you two cannot come to a meeting of the minds about the bounds of your relationship, from where will the trust come? Trust is a cornerstone and you are questioning his behaviors, that doesn't sound like a comfortable relationship.

I'd always be wondering and that feeling of insecurity is damaging to relationship, it wears it down I think. I know I'd not want to be walking on the edge every moment and it seems that is where you are with him.

I hope you two can set boundaries and allow the relationship to grow if that is what you both want. All the best to you Shele.


Cate

 

[BirdsWife]

yes I have settled on a boundry but I donot believe it is unreasonable..no dates with other women..no secret relationships...I under everyone flirts and thats fine..but when setting up dates is involved I think that has gone too far. And yes we have talked about it before as it has happened once before and I caught him and he knew my feelings on it and I thought we had come to a mutual decision..I guess I was mistaken.

Well, if this isn't the first time this has happened and he knew your feelings on the subject yet did the same thing again, it seems like he doesn't really care whether or not his actions hurt you. If he didn't think it was such a big deal, then why did he hide it from you?

 

[Cathleen]

Well, if this isn't the first time this has happened and he knew your feelings on the subject yet did the same thing again, it seems like he doesn't really care whether or not his actions hurt you. If he didn't think it was such a big deal, then why did he hide it from you?

Well said!! Very well said..........

 

[Noor]

To some extent it doesn't matter what we think cheating is, all that matters is what you think, and you think he is cheating. He is involved in behavior that disrespects your wishes and feelings. You decide whether you can live with that, if you can't then he gets to decide which is more important, having you or not.

You guys make up your own equation for your relationship together and in that you determine both your boundaries.

You violating his privacy and reading his email is not good, but its one of those two wrongs doesn't make a right.

My personal opinion is that if he is doing the personals, he is most likely following through and dating others. Whether you accept this behavior is up to you.

 

[BirdsWife]

...but he says he wants to stay with me so I am trying to find a resolution that we both can live with.

I just noticed this part and wanted to add: why wouldn't he want to stay with you? Right now he has a live in lover until he finds someone he likes better. The behaviors you describe (settting up dates, answering and placing personal ads, keeping emails and phone calls secret) aren't usually done by people in a committed relationship.

I'm not trying to be harsh on you, but from where I sit it looks like you are getting the raw end of the deal here.

 

[warrior queen]

yes I have settled on a boundry but I donot believe it is unreasonable..no dates with other women..no secret relationships...I under everyone flirts and thats fine..but when setting up dates is involved I think that has gone too far. And yes we have talked about it before as it has happened once before and I caught him and he knew my feelings on it and I thought we had come to a mutual decision..I guess I was mistaken.

this paragraph got me, as i think you already know what you think about his behaviour - but needed some kind of vindication for how you have decided to react.

he's done it before, you had it out, you agreed on boundaries, he broke them.

all that's really left is for YOU to decide whether or not you can maintain enough trust to remain in the relationship.

and my guess is - you've already answered that question, too.

i wish you all the best, whichever you decide.

 

[Bobmi357]

Cheating.... tough subject, and its 100% subjective, meaning that what is cheating to me, may not be cheating to you.

In my first marriage I had several opportunities to cheat and did not. Why? Because I took my marriage vows seriously.

Point in fact I was still married when I met my future wife online. And during the course of that online romance I explained my situation to her and told her that I WOULD not meet her face to face until such time as I had left my wife and had started the divorce process. It wasn't until many years later that I learned from my wife that she would have taken me, married or not. I admit to being somewhat taken aback by that. But it would not have been fair to her, or to my now exwife.

When you boil it all down, cheating is a betrayal of trust. Be it a someone who sleeps around, or someone using the net to find the comfort and solace their partner fails to give them. We have few things in this life that are truly our own, but one of those things is our word. If you make a promise to be faithful to one person, breaking that is not only a betrayal of trust to that person, but a clear indication that your word has no value.

The problem is that its hard to put this subject into purely black and white terms. There are shades of gray that cloud the issue.

Is it cheating if you promise to be faithful to one person and sleep with another? Yes its cheating.

Is it cheating if you cyber with someone 2000 miles away and have no intention of ever meeting? Gray area...

What about if you start having feelings for that person 2000 miles away? Now its getting even more cloudy.

I don't cyber. Not because I don't want to, but because I don't trust myself. Back in the days of text messaging it was possible to cyber with someone and that someone was merely pixels on the screen. But today with voice and video, cybering becomes a trap. Its turned that anonymous person into a breathing living being with feelings and needs. My wife doesn't cyber either, but she feels it isn't cheating. I can't quite agree with her on this because while it certainly doesn't allow for physical contact, it still carries all the emotional baggage that a face to face sex session would carry. Its a lure because it provides someone with easy access to something they need and aren't getting from their SO.

So I guess what I'm saying is its ok to disagree as to what constitutes cheating. But there still need to be some hardcore black and white definations. My wife and I will probably never agree on the issue of cybering. But thats ok. I know, and she knows, that should it ever go to the point of real life cheating, it would severely damage if not destroy our relationship.

For me personally there are two types of cheating. One where you simply share sex and one where you give your heart to another. Sharing sex is bad enough, but giving away what rightfully should go to your SO is worse. If things are truly that bad in the relationship, do the honorable thing and end it before you start another.

To be honest Shele, I do not see what you get out of this relationship. He's hunting as if he's looking for a mate and all the while he's still got you at his beck and call. In my mind he's already crossed that line which cannot be crossed and should be kicked to the curb.

 

[overthebow]

I am trying to understand this, hopefully mend the trust that has broken, both his and mine..as I betrayed him as well by searching through his email...

It sounds like he is trying to eat his cake and have it too. If he wants to be with you, he should be with you. It sounds like you have made it easy to be with you when he doesn't want to be with only you.

As for the trust and email thing, he has done a lot to weaken your trust in him. He is playing on your sense of honor while destroying your trust in him.

 

[shele]

Again thank you all for your responses..you all have such good advice...my SOand I have been talking and he has read this thread and we will see what happens..if there is something in the relationship to salvage I would like too but if not I don't want to end up enemies either....again thank you and any additional comments are welcome


-shele

 

[Metal_Monkey]

I will admit that my ideas and opinions concerning relationships are conservative. Keeping that in mind, any betrayal of trust - when your SO says, or does, something you wouldn't aprove of, with or without your knowledge - is cheating (the context is relationships, of course). Since you've had your talk, your SO is now very aware of what makes you uncomfortable and what you consider unacceptable.

In my (conservative) opinion, it is reasonable for you to demand that he (1) no longer takes out or answers personal ads, (2) does not engage in cyber-sex/phone-sex, (3) no longer sets up "platonic dates" that have nothing to do with work, school, finances, whatever - I think you know what I mean.

Now, it may be the element of secrecy that disturbed you. It may be the feeling that you couldn't control your SO's actions - and what I mean by that is the idea that your opinions and your feelings no longer influence what your SO does. In any personal relationship, I want my SO to care about my feelings, to refrain from actions that could cause me emotional harm - like cheating.

If (for example) the secrecy of placing ads hurts more than the ads themselves, then you might want to consider an open relationship. If your SO has your blessing to act within certain bounderies it would take away the secrecy and hopefully open up communication between the two of you. This could work for you.

The important thing is that both of you agree NOW what is acceptable behavior, and what isn't. If you can't agree then you should break things off.

 

[warrior queen]

Again thank you all for your responses..you all have such good advice...my SOand I have been talking and he has read this thread and we will see what happens..if there is something in the relationship to salvage I would like too but if not I don't want to end up enemies either....again thank you and any additional comments are welcome


-shele

i think it's commendable that you have opened dialogue with the intention of trying to salvage your relationship.

however, you must keep in mind that you have done this before - after his first transgression.
given that, IMO you should be looking for much more stringent rules of behaviour on the part of your SO, and make it absolutely clear that this is the last, final, absolute time that you will consider staying together if his behaviour should transgress your limits.
you have stayed with him through one episode.... and that gives YOU the right to determine the limits.

if things go pear-shaped, and you end up breaking up - take heart in the fact that many of us have been able to remain friends with our ex's.
indeed, i count my first husband as part of my family, and i am eternally grateful that he has remained a big part of my life, and also part of my childrens lives (none of the children are his.)

again, good luck either way

 

[AnotherCatullus]

This whole thread is just fascinating. When I committed to my lover (moved in, merged finances, started a family, etc.) I said, if you ever feel the need to see someone else just make sure I don't know about it. I meant a quick fling or something like that - a pressure release. Well she did, didn't tell me, but obviously after a while I figured it out. So far it's not cheating. But then after I knew and she knew i knew, she wanted to carry on. We fought about it, but it was a battle I was always going to lose. Now she's had another lover for two years.

I think it's cheating on our emotional commitment. She says she wants to stay with me, bbut she wants to be allowed to have this other outlet.

Shele, i don;t know what to say to those people her ewho say you're not doing yourself any favors. You find someone you love, and you have to choose between the pain they cause you and the pain and fear of leaving them. It's scary. I have children too, which doesn;t help. But so far I haven't stayed in the relationship "for the children", I've stayed to fight for my lover.

Don't know if this helps. Time I posted something happier.

 

[Erlikkhan]

Cheating is what you've done if you get caught doing it...