What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

[NeverEndingMe]

granted, you have nothing but shit between those ears of yours...but if you can think for a moment, do you feel America is in trouble?

what about:

Stock Futures Point to Sharply Lower Open Amid Europe, U.S. Debt Woes

Stock futures pointed to a sharply lower open for equities on Wall Street on Monday, with futures for the S&P 500, the Dow Jones and the Nasdaq 100 down 1.1 to 1.4 percent

I'll wait, but I'm sure you ran home to your mommie

What would you expect? You were supposed to take his assertions at face value, not go looking for actual facts 'n' shit..

 

[NeverEndingMe]

okay, lover all things in entitlements, is America in trouble? is the debt something we should worry about? what about the economy? jobs? education?

*crickets*

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Watching the lunatic fringe here cheer when the DOW is down and then say, "it doesn't matter" when it's up is a telling sign of how wishy-washy these chumps are.

You need to reread the OP...



It's just the opposite which is why we bring it up; the comedy.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

As 2011 ends, we have discovered how to turn a natural recovery from a near-record recession into a serial slowdown. Almost every haphazard, ad hoc attempt by Barack Obama to jumpstart the economy has only further stalled it. The president has never articulated a diagnosis of why the economy was stalled, never outlined a coherent treatment plan, and so cannot offer a prognosis. If we have a sick budget, a Byzantine tax code, bankrupting entitlements and long-term debt burden, and a costly imported-oil bill, one would never know all that from the president, who has never offered any sort of plan for addressing these crises.

Borrowing over $4 trillion terrified investors and business owners — especially given campaign promises that Obama would not be so “unpatriotic” as to match in three years the debt that Bush had piled up in eight. After all, no one could accuse the Bush administration of having left the economy moribund by slashing government, running balanced or surplus budgets, reducing the national debt, and in tight-fisted fashion denying federal bailouts to reckless banks and Wall Street firms. Apparently, Barack Obama saw the Bush administration’s economic transgressions not as warnings, but as a green light to borrow and spend even more on a predetermined redistributive agenda (“Never let a crisis go to waste”) — as if once a Republican administration had trespassed, conservatives could hardly throw stones at even greater sinners.

Government’s “shovel-ready” projects proved chimaeras — as if anyone could ever believe that tenured bureaucrats could spend such vast borrowed sums as efficiently as millions of private individuals responsible for their own success or failure. The irony is that drilling for more American gas and oil would, in fact, both be shovel-ready job stimulus and cost the government almost nothing; however, this was unacceptable given the opposition of the green insiders and the likelihood that corporations would profit.

Extending food stamps and unemployment benefits to record levels might in theory have sounded humane, but it eroded incentives, depressed the dependent recipients, and created no new jobs. Such gargantuan new expenditures were about as effective in combatting unemployment as prescribing a third round of antibiotics for a resistant strain of infection. A theme in many of Obama’s vast new spending schemes is that we are all supposed to believe publicly that the new largesse is the right thing to do, even if we privately shrug that it inevitably ensures quite the opposite result, given unchanging human nature.

Blaming sluggish growth on everything from ATM machines, tsunamis, and the Europeans to private-jet owners and the top 1 percent of taxpayers only reminded the general public how little those in charge knew what was going on, and reminded the particular targets why they were smart to hoard cash, not buy, and not hire — in fear of new taxes, new regulations, new costs like Obamacare, and a new antagonism from an accusatory commander-in-chief himself. Blaming the patient — uncompetitive, soft, lazy — is the worst thing a doctor can do.

If one were trying to dream up a way for the Energy Department to ensure fewer jobs, less energy, and higher costs, it would be hard to match the record of Secretary Chu. We have spent billions subsidizing inefficient solar- and wind-power companies with political connections; the results have been little or no new energy, but lots more federal debt. Thanks to Obama, the “alternative energy” industry is now discredited, as “millions of green jobs” have been downgraded to the status of “stimulus” and “investments.” Apparently, when crony capitalists and insider con men put the word “green” in front of their schemes, we are supposed to suspend moral judgment, as if they purchased medieval indulgences exempting them from scrutiny

Stopping offshore oil exploration, curbing drilling in Alaska and the continental United States, and postponing a proposed oil pipeline from Canada are the sorts of luxuries that cash-laden, energy-rich postmodern societies can enjoy. But for now, unfortunately, we remain a nation of 150 million drivers, $15 trillion in debt, with an annual imported-oil tab of well over half a trillion dollars.

So far, no one in this administration can explain to the public how and why “Cash for Clunkers,” Obamacare, buying into GM, threatening Boeing, the second stimulus, or new regulations on business were supposed to create more jobs or economic growth. The common denominator in all these failed efforts is the assumption that a technocrat with an Ivy League certificate knows far more about business than those who conduct it. Usually the more suspect the doctor, the more framed degrees on the waiting-room wall.

In a psychological sense, it certainly confused the public to demonize Wall Street and the top income earners, while engaging in crony-capitalist insider deals with them — not to mention hosting these demonized fat cats in hopes of snaring their contributions. Was Obama a fiery populist, a Bill Clinton starstruck corporate wannabe, or a complete cynic who assured a select few donors and supporters on Wall Street that all his fiery bombast did not apply to a Jeffrey Immelt, Warren Buffett, George Soros, or Bill Gates? When millions of small contractors and professionals were lumped in with hyper-rich insiders such as Jon Corzine and Hank Paulson as the suspect “millionaires and billionaires” who were not paying “their fair share,” are we surprised that many in the private sector are sitting this recovery out?

Victor Davis Hanson
NRO

__________________
Sideshow Barry Barker 2012 Says: "It's NOT the economy, Stupid!" It's the Birthers! The Tea Party! SARAH PALIN!
Bush!
BAD LUCK!!
RACISM!!!
ATMs, KIOSKs & CORPORATE JETS!!!
TSUNAMIS, TORNADOS, & the ARAB SPRING!!!
EARTHQUAKES & HURRICANES!!!!!
EUROPE’s €PIIGS!!!!!!!!
OBSTRUCTION!!!
Americans have grown “Soft!”
MY LIMP STAFF
Greece is the word!
Roman Noodles!
You're all LAZY!
Come on WORK WITH ME HERE!
I killed a lot of people people!
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/files/2011/04/obama-wide-grin80.jpg
”’Shovel-ready’ was not as shovel-ready as we expected.” (Laughter)

 

[koalabear]

Stocks recover as IMF throws Europe a lifeline
The IMF offers assistance to debt-laden eurozone countries. The US lowers its third quarter gross domestic product estimate. Major agencies maintain their US debt ratings despite the failure of deficit reduction talks. Gold and oil prices recover.

http://data.moneycentral.msn.com/scripts/chrtsrv.dll?symbol=%24US%3AINDU&width=298&height=160&c1=3&ce=0&cf=0&d2=0&d3=0&d4=1&d5=0&e8=1&legend=0&banner=5&af=2&palette=2

 

[koalabear]

Stocks recover as IMF throws Europe a lifeline
The IMF offers assistance to debt-laden eurozone countries. The US lowers its third quarter gross domestic product estimate. Major agencies maintain their US debt ratings despite the failure of deficit reduction talks. Gold and oil prices recover.

http://data.moneycentral.msn.com/scripts/chrtsrv.dll?symbol=%24US%3AINDU&width=298&height=160&c1=3&ce=0&cf=0&d2=0&d3=0&d4=1&d5=0&e8=1&legend=0&banner=5&af=2&palette=2

Stocks climb out of a deep hole

 

[unregistered]

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Merc is going to cry and Celeb will hold their hands

The UD recovery underway:


CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run


The Congressional Budget Office on Tuesday downgraded its estimate of the benefits of President Obama’s 2009 stimulus package, saying it may have sustained as few as 700,000 jobs at its peak last year and that over the long run it will actually be a net drag on the economy.

CBO said that while the Recovery Act boosted the economy in the short run, the extra debt that the stimulus piled up “crowds out” private investment and “will reduce output slightly in the long run — by between 0 and 0.2 percent after 2016.”

The analysis confirms what CBO predicted before the stimulus passed in February 2009, though the top-end decline of two tenths of a percent is actually deeper than the agency predicted back then.

All told, the stimulus did boost jobs and the economy in the short run, according to CBO’s models. At the peak of spending from July through September 2010 it sustained anywhere from 700,000 to 3.6 million, which lowered the unemployment rate by between four-tenths of a percent to 2 percent.

The Obama administration had promised 3.5 million jobs would be produced at the peak of spending.

For this current quarter CBO said the stimulus is sustaining between 600,000 and 1.8 million jobs, which has improved the unemployment rate by as much as 1 percent versus what it otherwise would have been.

The White House did not return a message seeking comment Tuesday afternoon, but the president has defended the stimulus package as a bulwark against an even weaker economy.

Earlier this fall he proposed another round of spending, calling for $447 billion in expanded tax breaks, additional aid to states to hire teachers and emergency workers, and more infrastructure spending.

That broad effort has stalled, though on Monday Mr. Obama signed a slim portion of the package that offers tax breaks to businesses that hire veterans, and that repeals a 3 percent contract withholding requirement for government contractors.

CBO has re-evaluated the stimulus every three months, and its estimates for the total cost of varied. Initially the package was pegged at $787 billion, rose as high as $862 billion at one point, and it now projected to be $825 billion once all the money is paid out.

The non-partisan agency also has changed its model for the spending’s impact on the economy, and the new calculations show the Recovery Act did less than originally projected.

CBO said it has concluded there is less of an indirect multiplier effect of federal spending.

Those changes caused it to drop its estimates for total employment sustained by the spending in 2011 from between 1.2 million and 3.7 million down to between 600,000 and 3.6 million.

As for the long-term situation, CBO said its basic assumption is that each dollar of additional federal debt crowds out about a third of a dollar’s worth of private domestic capital.

CBO does not calculate crowding out in the short term, which is why the Recovery Act boosts the economy in the near term.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/22/cbo-stimulus-hurts-economy-long-run/

 

[cebalrai]

The UD recovery underway:

So you're saying that the stimulus shouldn't be judged by the fact that it saved millions of jobs and kept the economy from hitting like 13% unemployment? And instead it should only be judged by emotional thinking such as "whoa that feels like a lot of money"!

And pfft! If you gave a flying fuck about spending you would be slamming your beloved Republicans for two unfunded wars, unfunded Medicare Part-D, and the unfunded Bush tax cuts without spending cuts to cancel out the lost revenue. All those things dwarf the cost of the stimulus at a ratio of at least 6-to-1. But let's not talk about that, right? Let's just sweep that towering pile of inconvenient facts under the rug...

Your message is that spending is only a problem when the Democrats are in power. That's the only message that conservatives ever give around here. It's why you are all POS hypocrites who are impossible to respect.

 

[patrick1]

The UD recovery underway:


CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

[bits snipped]

As for the long-term situation, CBO said its basic assumption is that each dollar of additional federal debt crowds out about a third of a dollar’s worth of private domestic capital.

CBO does not calculate crowding out in the short term, which is why the Recovery Act boosts the economy in the near term.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/22/cbo-stimulus-hurts-economy-long-run/

This is a peculiarly poor and partial account of what the report says. The actual report is online, although for some reason the washington times doesn't reference it: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/125xx/doc12564/11-22-ARRA.pdf

Here's the beginning of the section about long-run effects: remember, we're talking about 2016 and after, having agreed that in the meantime nearly a million jobs and livelihoods have been saved.

<<ARRA’s Long-Run Effects
In contrast to its positive near-term macroeconomic
effects, ARRA will reduce output slightly in the long run,
CBO estimates—by between zero and 0.2 percent after
2016. But CBO expects that the legislation will have no long-term effects on employment because the U.S. economy
will have a high rate of use of its labor resources in
the long run.>>

That whole 'But...' section - wonder why that didn't get mentioned in the report? It's a mystery.

I'm an economics nerd, I know. I don't think I actually agree with this CBO report. But, to re-emphasize, it doesn't say what the Washington Times claims it says. The extra sentence from the report very specifically denies what's in the washington times headline. The report says absolutely the opposite, that the stimulus does not hurt the economy in the long run.

Fancy these quality journalists not mentioning that, and then getting their views spread around the globe as if it were fact.

Hey: there you go. Don't believe all you read

Patrick

 

[IrezumiKiss]

This is a peculiarly poor and partial account of what the report says. The actual report is online, although for some reason the washington times doesn't reference it: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/125xx/doc12564/11-22-ARRA.pdf

Here's the beginning of the section about long-run effects: remember, we're talking about 2016 and after, having agreed that in the meantime nearly a million jobs and livelihoods have been saved.

<<ARRA’s Long-Run Effects
In contrast to its positive near-term macroeconomic
effects, ARRA will reduce output slightly in the long run,
CBO estimates—by between zero and 0.2 percent after
2016. But CBO expects that the legislation will have no long-term effects on employment because the U.S. economy
will have a high rate of use of its labor resources in
the long run.>>

That whole 'But...' section - wonder why that didn't get mentioned in the report? It's a mystery.

I'm an economics nerd, I know. I don't think I actually agree with this CBO report. But, to re-emphasize, it doesn't say what the Washington Times claims it says. The extra sentence from the report very specifically denies what's in the washington times headline. The report says absolutely the opposite, that the stimulus does not hurt the economy in the long run.

Fancy these quality journalists not mentioning that, and then getting their views spread around the globe as if it were fact.

Hey: there you go. Don't believe all you read

Patrick

http://assets.sbnation.com/imported_assets/94866/oh_snap_flowchart_sm_medium.jpg

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

This is a peculiarly poor and partial account of what the report says. The actual report is online, although for some reason the washington times doesn't reference it: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/125xx/doc12564/11-22-ARRA.pdf

Here's the beginning of the section about long-run effects: remember, we're talking about 2016 and after, having agreed that in the meantime nearly a million jobs and livelihoods have been saved.

<<ARRA’s Long-Run Effects
In contrast to its positive near-term macroeconomic
effects, ARRA will reduce output slightly in the long run,
CBO estimates—by between zero and 0.2 percent after
2016. But CBO expects that the legislation will have no long-term effects on employment because the U.S. economy
will have a high rate of use of its labor resources in
the long run.>>

That whole 'But...' section - wonder why that didn't get mentioned in the report? It's a mystery.

I'm an economics nerd, I know. I don't think I actually agree with this CBO report. But, to re-emphasize, it doesn't say what the Washington Times claims it says. The extra sentence from the report very specifically denies what's in the washington times headline. The report says absolutely the opposite, that the stimulus does not hurt the economy in the long run.

Fancy these quality journalists not mentioning that, and then getting their views spread around the globe as if it were fact.

Hey: there you go. Don't believe all you read

Patrick

You mean the Rev. Moon's Washington Times is being less than truthful!?
Say it isn't so!

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

You need to reread the OP...

It's just the opposite which is why we bring it up; the comedy.

Yes, read the OP, and see that it's still very much true over two years later.
Still no runaway inflation, gas prices are still lower than they were in late 2008, the DJI is over 10K: MUCH higher than it's low of sub 7K, and the Chinese are still more than willing to loan us money despite the GOP holding the National Debt hostage and forcing our credit downgrade.

Still no bits of sky fallin Cap'n Chickenlittle.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Food prices are up. Imports keep other costs down artificially as they replaced our manufacturing. That means inflation has been kept in check due to lack of economic activity, especially in light of recent energy policy. Even the hint of sluggish growth shot the price per barrel over $100. If we were to have actual growth, then you will se the inflation as that funny money pours out of the banking system and through our pockets and then into the oil producing countries.

The problem for you is that three years later, we're virtually in the same place economically and people are hurtin' for certain.

What we have seen is a President more focused on the next election and who can deliver the most votes than actual jobs, therefore the membership of the labor unions take it in the sorts so that the greenie weenies can be placated and the far Left "energized" to turn in some green. The Union leadership is going to give him money no matter what he does to the average working serf...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Patrick, the problem with CBO estimates is that by law, they score statically and are hence never right because the economy is a dynamic system, otherwise, their static scores would have been right and $1 Trillion of inflation would have kept unemployment below 8%. It did not account for the fear of the future and the trepidation due to inconsistent government that this man so engenders with his picking of economic winners and losers and his unending capacity to needlessly squander actual Capital and his confused conflation with money and Capital.

In short, it's a very simplistic scoring with a very simplistic and flawed model, x money in equals y growth in activity. Economics is a discipline under the Sociology Department not the physics department.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

What we have is a weak leader.


What we need is a five-year plan like The Boss would have pushed through.


Kicking and screaming all the way to the gulags.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

What we have is a weak leader.


What we need is a five-year plan like The Boss would have pushed through.


Kicking and screaming all the way to the gulags.

All our plans end AFTER an election.




Solyndra, we gave you millions to squander, so don't let the cat out of the bag, the employees off the line, until mid November 2010...

 

[Wat_Tyler]

All our plans end AFTER an election.




Solyndra, we gave you millions to squander, so don't let the cat out of the bag, the employees off the line, until mid November 2010...

The Mayans say the world will end . . .


or their calendar ends.


If Time ends, why worry?


None of us will be Man of the Year any more.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I have seen no Mayans recently, so their timeline was a bit off...

 

[Wat_Tyler]

They still live on the Yucatan. They just bear the name less . . . openly.


Some may be Zapatistas now.


Some may have moved north and become Comancheros.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

They have not moved into the age of the Calculus...

 

[Wat_Tyler]

I bet they can be taught how to use an RPG, however . . . as long as they express obedience to the Boss's Ideal.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

It has big pictographs upon it...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Jobless claims rise...




DOW diving for 11K...

Thank you President Obama for "saving" us. IS the "miracle" bubble of China about to burst too?

Sideshow Barry Barker 2012 Says: "It's NOT the economy, Stupid!" It's the Birthers! The Tea Party! SARAH PALIN!
Bush!
BAD LUCK!!
RACISM!!!
ATMs, KIOSKs & CORPORATE JETS!!!
TSUNAMIS, TORNADOS, & the ARAB SPRING!!!
EARTHQUAKES & HURRICANES!!!!!
EUROPE’s €PIIGS!!!!!!!!
OBSTRUCTION!!!
Americans have grown “Soft!”
MY LIMP STAFF
Greece is the word!
Roman Noodles!
You're all LAZY!
China Syndrome!
Come on WORK WITH ME HERE!
I killed a lot of people people!
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/files/2011/04/obama-wide-grin80.jpg
”’Shovel-ready’ was not as shovel-ready as we expected.” (Laughter)

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Durable goods orders down?




Boy, that's gonna depress price... kinda like deflation... no?