What do you think the US role should be in terms of World Peace and global politics?
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tythisredheadup
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I believe we as a country should stay the hell out of it and focus on our citizens. Yes, innocents will be killed. Yes, there will continue to be great sorrow in the world. But, the US has its own problems to solve. There is great sorrow here, in this country.
catalina_francisco
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tythisredheadup said:
Mostly with you here, though there is a role for any country to play when needed and/or asked for the right reasons. The holocaust unfortunately happened because people were apathetic at the time and didn't want to get involved, but not all situations have been like that nor warranted intervention of the type that has been used. There is a difference between helping another nation in need, respecting their customs and rights, and just barrelling in with the intent to judge and impose yourself and culture on another under the guise of humanitarian effort.
It is this attitude in recent times which has tarnished the reputation the US has held for decades of being a friendly nation that can be trusted to help when needed but also respect others and their rights. I grew up in a time when the US was seen as good and honorable and it saddens me to now hear wherever I go in the world, whoever I speak to from whatever nation, that the US is not to be trusted, is intent on winning a power struggle to rule over all others and impose their thoughts, ways, and beliefs on others, and will go to whatever lengths necessary to force others to comply. I no longer see a desire to help bring about world peace, instead replacing it with a desire to place the US as the nation to control all others. See, world peace in a true sense cannot be acheived by one nation telling the rest what is going to be done and how...it requires a group effort of all the world to work out solutions which respect the diversity of the world's people and their human rights, not impose one way on all under the guise of democracy.
Catalina
TNRkitect2b
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Some us us realize it, and broke with their political parties during the last election because of it.
I see this as a matter of the US, by being the world's only acknowledged superpower, has a choice to make. It can either take the low road, and attempt to become an empire, imposing its will across the world per the example of the Roman Empire, or it can attempt to engage the other nations of the world as equals. This is what I feel our role should be.
Unfortunately, the current administration seems to feel that the US should become the next empire. They refuses to treat others as equals, and feel that their form of democracy and top heavy capitalisim is the only way. Disagree with them, and you are branded an enemy.
Half of the US voters had no problems with this rigid outlook, and therefore have managed to disavow the principles the country was founded upon. They no longer believe the following is true -
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Instead, they must add, "only so long as your views do not conflict with mine, and you admit that mine are superior." and thus subvert the meaning.
Unfortunately, I can only explain the current situation, I have no concrete solution for fixing the problem, save following the advice of the Delclaration of Independence.
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles"
So, as treason, accomplished through an uprising or civil war in an attempt to abolish the current government is very hazardous to your health , we must instead attempt to alter it by working within the system and making sure that the next administration that comes to power 4 years from now reflects those principles quoted above.
</soapbox>
Quotes obtained here
I see this as a matter of the US, by being the world's only acknowledged superpower, has a choice to make. It can either take the low road, and attempt to become an empire, imposing its will across the world per the example of the Roman Empire, or it can attempt to engage the other nations of the world as equals. This is what I feel our role should be.
Unfortunately, the current administration seems to feel that the US should become the next empire. They refuses to treat others as equals, and feel that their form of democracy and top heavy capitalisim is the only way. Disagree with them, and you are branded an enemy.
Half of the US voters had no problems with this rigid outlook, and therefore have managed to disavow the principles the country was founded upon. They no longer believe the following is true -
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Instead, they must add, "only so long as your views do not conflict with mine, and you admit that mine are superior." and thus subvert the meaning.
Unfortunately, I can only explain the current situation, I have no concrete solution for fixing the problem, save following the advice of the Delclaration of Independence.
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles"
So, as treason, accomplished through an uprising or civil war in an attempt to abolish the current government is very hazardous to your health , we must instead attempt to alter it by working within the system and making sure that the next administration that comes to power 4 years from now reflects those principles quoted above.
</soapbox>
Quotes obtained here
le Dragon Noir
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Loaded Question, Miss Taken.
The US does do some good abroad, however two things are working against us. First, that we're viewed a hostile entity with visions of dynastic empires. I was hoping for a change in the administration, but oh well. The second is, that when we're not making war on a country, (or assisting with wars that we're not overtly involved in) we doing things for other countries and ignoring the same problems here. This is hypocritical, and such is our hubris that we (as a generalised group, not individually) act as if people in other countries are too stupid to see it.
For instance, I read once a few years ago that government assistance (through the UN) fed 15.000 starving kids in Eastern Europe. Great. Subtract the cost of transport and we could have fed double that amount of starving kid in our cities. We're building libraries in India. Great. I guess we don't need libraries in east LA because 57 percent of the population there is functionally illiterate. And Florida, we whould take their books away because about 63 percent of them are unable to read either. How about taking some of that cash and building some libraries around here, with programs to teach bacis reading?
Let's look at healthcare. The AIDS epidemic in Africa is pretty horrible. But we're getting involved in funding drugs for AIDS victims in Africa when we have peopel dying here who cannot afford them. We're building hospitals in other countries when people around here don't have healthcare. Better yet, we're building hospitals in other countries and closing or cutting back Veteran's hospitals here. I'm starting to experience a few things that may be related to my service in the Gulf War and I have to drive 90 miles one way to go to the Dr. and get try to figure out what the hell is wrong with me because my pcp here is fucking baffled. I will never forget the look on his face whjen he walked into the exam room after calling the VA with a question. He was shaking his head, and couldn't look me in the eye when he said. "the problem is Steve, is they still say there is no such thing as Gulf War Syndrome.." (But the wholesale dereliction of duty in reference to veterans is a whole different rant.)
My point was, we're doing this "Oh look at us, doing the wonderful moral humanitarian thing, saving millions and millions of lives." and pretending such problems don't exist in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. This is (to me) morally corrupt and absolutely assinine.
The US does do some good abroad, however two things are working against us. First, that we're viewed a hostile entity with visions of dynastic empires. I was hoping for a change in the administration, but oh well. The second is, that when we're not making war on a country, (or assisting with wars that we're not overtly involved in) we doing things for other countries and ignoring the same problems here. This is hypocritical, and such is our hubris that we (as a generalised group, not individually) act as if people in other countries are too stupid to see it.
For instance, I read once a few years ago that government assistance (through the UN) fed 15.000 starving kids in Eastern Europe. Great. Subtract the cost of transport and we could have fed double that amount of starving kid in our cities. We're building libraries in India. Great. I guess we don't need libraries in east LA because 57 percent of the population there is functionally illiterate. And Florida, we whould take their books away because about 63 percent of them are unable to read either. How about taking some of that cash and building some libraries around here, with programs to teach bacis reading?
Let's look at healthcare. The AIDS epidemic in Africa is pretty horrible. But we're getting involved in funding drugs for AIDS victims in Africa when we have peopel dying here who cannot afford them. We're building hospitals in other countries when people around here don't have healthcare. Better yet, we're building hospitals in other countries and closing or cutting back Veteran's hospitals here. I'm starting to experience a few things that may be related to my service in the Gulf War and I have to drive 90 miles one way to go to the Dr. and get try to figure out what the hell is wrong with me because my pcp here is fucking baffled. I will never forget the look on his face whjen he walked into the exam room after calling the VA with a question. He was shaking his head, and couldn't look me in the eye when he said. "the problem is Steve, is they still say there is no such thing as Gulf War Syndrome.." (But the wholesale dereliction of duty in reference to veterans is a whole different rant.)
My point was, we're doing this "Oh look at us, doing the wonderful moral humanitarian thing, saving millions and millions of lives." and pretending such problems don't exist in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. This is (to me) morally corrupt and absolutely assinine.
sunfox
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m wisdom said:
Actually, I'd have to say that most in the US are well aware of how much the rest of the world hates us.
The problem is, most people don't think it matters. They don't think that hatred can ever come home to roost where they live.
Some of us do realize that, and are deeply unhappy with the way things are going.
I fall under the category of people who believe that ignoring our problems at home while education gets worse and healthcare and the job market take a beating is a huge mistake.
Unfortunately, I doubt that will change in any appreciable way in the next four years, and if anything, will get even worse.
catalina_francisco
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le Dragon Noir said:
I fear there is a purpose to all these programs outside home borders that unfortunately is not due to humanitarian fellowship, more so sowing the seeds which will reap the ownership of these nations by the US before they can blink. Give them something they need, capitalise on their hardships, then demand payment when the moment is right......so far they have not found that process as useful at home. Why do I say this? If the US was so genuinely concerned for the poorer nations of this world and their people they would abolish the crippling interest rates on past loans which make repayment and clearance of those debts impossible, or even better, wipe the slate clean to allow those nations to fund their own programmes which would not only be humanitarian but give the power back to the poorer nations to conduct their own nation, programmes, and infrastructure in a way which fits their culture and builds a healthy cultural identity and climate. By continuing to add more to the crippling debt they have effectively bought those nations and the generations of their citizens to come through clever manipulation under the guise of friendship and protector. Now if they invest that same money in programmes at home what do they stand to gain (keeping in mind they are not keen on losing the power they have)? They don't need to win the people over because those who need the prograqmmes are already in a powerless position from which they have no way of escaping or protesting. If they educate them they risk the chance the people will become more powerful, gain a voice and possibly take steps to remove the present system for another, or at the very least undermine the power machine by demanding a piece of the pie for themselves. So far the pie is divided among a very few who have a huge amount....why would they want to share with more and decrease their own capital gain and power? So see, there is very little incentive to help their own people in need, they already own them.
Catalina
Mr Wolf
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The New World Order
I think the problem stems from the fact that America is anti-imperialist in outlook yet is now the only nation capable of fufilling that imperial role. That is to say, not carving out a new empire but acting as an imperial statesman for the world. Call it the world policeman if you like or gunboat diplomacy it is basically one and the same. America is the only super power and will be for about the next 20 years until it has to compete with China, so it must accept its responsibilities as past empires have.
The British Empire is probably the best example of this working in a way that was least harmfull to world stability. Britain understood that its Naval power had to keep the sea lanes clear for its trade with its colonies and as a result kept the sea lanes clear for other nations to trade also. Remember it was the Royal Navy who imposed the blocking of the slave trade from Africa, once the British people had decided that slaverywas wrong.
America has to accept though that this role comes at a cost, namely the lives of its sevicemen/women when it enforces world stability/peace. It seems to alot of people that America is a bit light in the 'willing to sacrifice' department, happy to let others take the lead or just plain not get involved if it might cost lives because it won't look good on TV at home. Yet I believe it was Jefferson who said 'the tree of liberty must be watered by the blood of patriots'.
America is at last seeming to take on this burden under Bush, although it remains to be seen if this is a blip or the future of American policy with regards the rest of the world. The UN is proven to be toothless and IMHO is heading the same way as the League of Nations, hopefully without the same end result. America must stand strong and not appear weak to those in the world who wish to undermine basic human rights, such as freedom, justice, etc, by their actions. But by the same token the American people must look to their past and realise there is a price to pay, they must accept that although it is painfull it must be paid if they wish to take their place not only in history but also as the current world leaders.
I think the problem stems from the fact that America is anti-imperialist in outlook yet is now the only nation capable of fufilling that imperial role. That is to say, not carving out a new empire but acting as an imperial statesman for the world. Call it the world policeman if you like or gunboat diplomacy it is basically one and the same. America is the only super power and will be for about the next 20 years until it has to compete with China, so it must accept its responsibilities as past empires have.
The British Empire is probably the best example of this working in a way that was least harmfull to world stability. Britain understood that its Naval power had to keep the sea lanes clear for its trade with its colonies and as a result kept the sea lanes clear for other nations to trade also. Remember it was the Royal Navy who imposed the blocking of the slave trade from Africa, once the British people had decided that slaverywas wrong.
America has to accept though that this role comes at a cost, namely the lives of its sevicemen/women when it enforces world stability/peace. It seems to alot of people that America is a bit light in the 'willing to sacrifice' department, happy to let others take the lead or just plain not get involved if it might cost lives because it won't look good on TV at home. Yet I believe it was Jefferson who said 'the tree of liberty must be watered by the blood of patriots'.
America is at last seeming to take on this burden under Bush, although it remains to be seen if this is a blip or the future of American policy with regards the rest of the world. The UN is proven to be toothless and IMHO is heading the same way as the League of Nations, hopefully without the same end result. America must stand strong and not appear weak to those in the world who wish to undermine basic human rights, such as freedom, justice, etc, by their actions. But by the same token the American people must look to their past and realise there is a price to pay, they must accept that although it is painfull it must be paid if they wish to take their place not only in history but also as the current world leaders.
Sir_Winston54
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Sadly, I feel that our world is comprised of a large number of juvenile and adolescent societies. We (each individual society, and each associated group of societies) have our cliques and our outcasts, the BMOCs and fraternities/sororities opposing the geeks and bookworms.
When we - all of us - accept that not only do we as individuals and in our social/national groupings have those inalienable rights, but all others do also... perhaps then we will become an adult society, and have a chance to survive. Should we not learn this, I fear we will not survive. Maybe the cockroaches will do better in a few million years.
When we - all of us - accept that not only do we as individuals and in our social/national groupings have those inalienable rights, but all others do also... perhaps then we will become an adult society, and have a chance to survive. Should we not learn this, I fear we will not survive. Maybe the cockroaches will do better in a few million years.
Wednesday'sRose
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sunfox said:
I'm afraid I have to agree.
Hmm, ever by chance read Ender's Game?
Sir_Winston54
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Wednesday'sRose said:
Yep.
Wednesday'sRose
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Sir_Winston54 said:
Sorry, the cockroach comment made me think of that book. I get weird tangent thoughts sometimes.
I liked the book though, so I guess it wasn't all bad.
DVS
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Re: What do you think the US role should be in terms of World Peace and global politics?
Maybe this topic should be changed to "What do you think everyone in the world's role should be in terms of World Peace and global politics?"MissTaken said:I am no political brainiac and have unresolved thoughts on this question.
Please, share your thoughts.
dolf
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i'm gonna get shot for saying this...but i think the world is missing the USSR. when the USA and the USSR were busy growling at each other the rest of the world could just get along with doing whatever it did. now that the USSR is gone the USA is looking around wildly for someone else to growl at and they seem to be growling at an awful lot of people.
it stuns me that a country with so much wealth and power has almost no public health care for its children....
ok, lol, i'm not that good on world issues. i need to go out & buy the papers before i write anymore
xx
it stuns me that a country with so much wealth and power has almost no public health care for its children....
ok, lol, i'm not that good on world issues. i need to go out & buy the papers before i write anymore
xx
Netzach
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The mandate of government in the US as I was taught and perhaps naively believed was that in a democracy the rights of each individual are protected and government goes to bat for those rights.
The mandate of the US now is that the rights of each corporation are protected and the government goes to bat for those rights.
While we have capitalism going completely amok, we're going to have problems. I'm not advocating a socialist or marxist stance, but people today would characterize the New Deal as socialism, anything short of the harshest bootstraps philosophy is seen as far fringe left. If we don't give a fuck about each other, we're not ready to offer anything to the rest of the world that's good.
The mandate of the US now is that the rights of each corporation are protected and the government goes to bat for those rights.
While we have capitalism going completely amok, we're going to have problems. I'm not advocating a socialist or marxist stance, but people today would characterize the New Deal as socialism, anything short of the harshest bootstraps philosophy is seen as far fringe left. If we don't give a fuck about each other, we're not ready to offer anything to the rest of the world that's good.
Betticus
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It was only a matter of time before corporations took over our government.
Now you have all made a damn liar out of me and I'm contributing to a political thread so I have to twist it to a sexual reference just to save face. Assholes!@
It is like D/s but much more painful. Most of us pay into something between 28 and 31 percent of our income on taxes or perhaps more. Then when we take what is left and provide for our needs we get hit with more taxes. Sales tax. Buy too expensive an item and it is a luxury tax. What about inheritance, you have to pay the government in order to inherit your dead fathers belongings.
We are getting assraped constantly. We just got used to it. Then to even think about the erosion of our civil rights galls me. The patriot act? They just made it legal for them to ram their fists further up our asses. Now if you speak out against the government you are fair game and have no real protection. It is nothing more than bullying and intimidation.
So what happened? Corporate America gained so much influence over politics that the system is now structured to cater to the very few mega rich/powerful that are firmly entrenched on top of the food chain. We are becoming the old U.S.S.R slowly. It starts small like changing constitutions to remove rights. Making it illegal to marry who you love because of religious beliefs of a few.
If I remember correctly our pilgrim founders came here to escape religious persecution like what we are suffering under right now. There is nowhere to escape to though. And if you make a bold enough statement against the government you end up burned alive in your home in Waco or shot to death as in Ruby Ridge.
So I voted Libertarian. I'm tired of the non-consensual sex I've been getting from the man.
Now you have all made a damn liar out of me and I'm contributing to a political thread so I have to twist it to a sexual reference just to save face. Assholes!@
It is like D/s but much more painful. Most of us pay into something between 28 and 31 percent of our income on taxes or perhaps more. Then when we take what is left and provide for our needs we get hit with more taxes. Sales tax. Buy too expensive an item and it is a luxury tax. What about inheritance, you have to pay the government in order to inherit your dead fathers belongings.
We are getting assraped constantly. We just got used to it. Then to even think about the erosion of our civil rights galls me. The patriot act? They just made it legal for them to ram their fists further up our asses. Now if you speak out against the government you are fair game and have no real protection. It is nothing more than bullying and intimidation.
So what happened? Corporate America gained so much influence over politics that the system is now structured to cater to the very few mega rich/powerful that are firmly entrenched on top of the food chain. We are becoming the old U.S.S.R slowly. It starts small like changing constitutions to remove rights. Making it illegal to marry who you love because of religious beliefs of a few.
If I remember correctly our pilgrim founders came here to escape religious persecution like what we are suffering under right now. There is nowhere to escape to though. And if you make a bold enough statement against the government you end up burned alive in your home in Waco or shot to death as in Ruby Ridge.
So I voted Libertarian. I'm tired of the non-consensual sex I've been getting from the man.
blue kat
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dolf said:i'm gonna get shot for saying this...but i think the world is missing the USSR. when the USA and the USSR were busy growling at each other the rest of the world could just get along with doing whatever it did. now that the USSR is gone the USA is looking around wildly for someone else to growl at and they seem to be growling at an awful lot of people.
it stuns me that a country with so much wealth and power has almost no public health care for its children....
ok, lol, i'm not that good on world issues. i need to go out & buy the papers before i write anymore
xx
Nope, no shooting here. My money's on China becoming the next Big Bad, to use a Buffy-ism. And I'm not going to say anything profound about the us role because I think my country needs to clean up it's act before I go pointing any fingers south. (Okay, so maybe that was something, if we apply DVS's questions.)
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