What do you say when...?

[SweetErika]

What do you say when someone, say a coworker, friend, or family member who doesn't know about your D/s dynamic, comments on the power/control in your relationship?

An example: My husband's coworker has to go over the mountains to inspect product today. The weather is really treacherous and this guy has proven himself to be a poor and irresponsible driver in bad conditions. He wanted my husband to go with him, and I said, "Absolutely not - it's too dangerous," out of care and concern, and he overheard this. I'd say the same even without the D/s dynamic, but with it, he's compelled to comply with my decision (which he would really do anyway, as he doesn't feel it's safe either, but saying so would cause problems with this coworker).

The coworker said, "Well, if you let your wife control your life, then do what you've gotta do," in an icky tone and a few other negative comments about allowing me to have that much influence.

My husband kind of brushes it off, but doesn't really know how to respond to comments like this. I'm sure comments about control will come up for both of us in the future, as people may mistake me for a controlling (and possibly abusive) bitch and him for a pussy-whipped weenie.

So, how have you dealt with comments from those who don't know about your dynamic in the past? Do you have some good responses ready for situations like this? Or do you try to make sure it seems like you each make decisions for yourselves so it doesn't appear there's influence from your partner (e.g. saying "I have decided..."?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I would have been tempted in your husband's position to respond with a cheeky secretive grin and say 'Thanks, I will'. If there was a further remark it could also be met with a hint of humour along the lines of saying 'my wife likes me in one piece, just as I do her...we like to make sure we keep it that way'. Of course, given the tone of the remark nothing is likely to work adequately and it might be it comes to a point of having to point out it is your lives and you made a committment long ago to look out for each other, and to respect any fears your partner might have...could also point out such situations are not worth making waves over because you do both care about each other a lot, and that you are real happy he recognises this and respects your husbands right to live in the reality you have both created which works for you both. Like you, I also would have said it in a vanilla relationship, and also have voiced strongly my concerns in situations presented by others where I felt the risk to F was too great and also knew it was not something either of us wanted. People with the attitude of the guy your husband works with usually have a huge chip on their shoulder and something to prove which in reality is never proven as it is not real...not to mention are very insecure about themselves.

Catalina

 

[graceanne]

I tell people that me and K have an agreement when it comes to our personal safety that the other has veto rights. It's a lie, but when it seems that it's both way, they get off my ass.

Similar situation, I was remarking to someone how much I liked her tattoo, and she asked why I don't get one. I said 'my husband won't let me'. omg So I told her we have an agreement, he won't do anything to his appearance I don't like, and I won't do anything to mine. That got her to shut up, cause then it was equal. *shrugs*

 

[Evil_Geoff]

What do you say when someone, say a coworker, friend, or family member who doesn't know about your D/s dynamic, comments on the power/control in your relationship?


So, how have you dealt with comments from those who don't know about your dynamic in the past? Do you have some good responses ready for situations like this? Or do you try to make sure it seems like you each make decisions for yourselves so it doesn't appear there's influence from your partner (e.g. saying "I have decided..."?

Just out of curiousity, how was this coworker in a place/poistion to hear your reaction and instruction to your husband?

janey and I really are "out" about our relationship to families, co-workers, friends. She addresses me as "Sir" pretty much everywhere. But work is work and I don't even pretend to direct her activities in that realm. None of janeys co-workers has commented to _me_ about our relationship except in a humorus/teasing way, and that's fine. Her supervisors/managers know I am not going to tell janey to do something in opposition to company policy or against their directives. Her co-workers know janey and I don't give a rats ass about what they think about our relationship, and if I tell her to do something that's not work related, she's going to do it. I simply don't care if they think I'm a bastard, their opinions are irrelevent to me.

If the co-worker is a peer or lower down the food chain, a simple "Sorry, but my spouse is concerned about my safety and I happen to agree with him/her." should be sufficient. If it's a superior/more senior co-worker then it might be time to go to the next level and say "you know, this guy isn't a safe driver and I'm not going to put my health and safety, or the availability to the company of my skills and knowledge, in his hands in bad weather. I will go to the assignement, but I am not RIDING with him. If I drive, he's welcome to come with me..."

I wish I had some better answers for you but I don't have any experience with the F/m dynamic. I know that society has a different take on F/m relationships than it does on the M/f dynamic. My own personal reaction is "fuck 'em if they don't like it." but that's me and my inner rebel coming out.

 

[SweetErika]

I would have been tempted in your husband's position to respond with a cheeky secretive grin and say 'Thanks, I will'. If there was a further remark it could also be met with a hint of humour along the lines of saying 'my wife likes me in one piece, just as I do her...we like to make sure we keep it that way'. Of course, given the tone of the remark nothing is likely to work adequately and it might be it comes to a point of having to point out it is your lives and you made a committment long ago to look out for each other, and to respect any fears your partner might have...could also point out such situations are not worth making waves over because you do both care about each other a lot, and that you are real happy he recognises this and respects your husbands right to live in the reality you have both created which works for you both. Like you, I also would have said it in a vanilla relationship, and also have voiced strongly my concerns in situations presented by others where I felt the risk to F was too great and also knew it was not something either of us wanted. People with the attitude of the guy your husband works with usually have a huge chip on their shoulder and something to prove which in reality is never proven as it is not real...not to mention are very insecure about themselves.

Catalina

Good thoughts.

And you nailed this guy, whose LT partner just left him, has a macho complex and believes women should be at home, subservient and quiet (partly a function of his Mexican culture). He's an asshole in general, so the comments don't boter us really, but we did wonder how others deal with concern over control.

 

[SweetErika]

Just out of curiousity, how was this coworker in a place/poistion to hear your reaction and instruction to your husband?

Hubby was sitting right next to me while he was on the phone, and asked me to look up the road conditions, which I was reporting back to him. It was more of a reaction than an instruction, and he did tell his coworker we'd talk about it and call him back. When he did so and said we decided it wasn't safe, he got the negative comments.

It's a very small company with an informal culture (they send each other and look at porn IN the office WITH the owners! ), and everyone but the owners are equals. He's the only one in a good relationship, and they respect that for the most part.

This was not a case of him needing to go, but of his coworker wanting him to go so he had someone to talk to, read the map, and help if they got stuck. In fact, my husband really needs to be here to do his job (which is very tough w/o internet and fax access), and in all likelihood, they'd have gotten stuck on the other side of the mountains for a few days while his work piled up. If he did need to go, we would have figured something out, but putting his life on the line so his coworker doesn't get so bored isn't an acceptable, IMO.

I do have input on some work matters (e.g. requesting he leave on-time or a bit early so we can do something, but of course I understand if something comes up, in spite of his best efforts to get out, or telling him to get is resume in order in case of instability), but, like you, we don't consider his job within my sphere of control. The bottom line is I do know the dynamic at work, and will present strong opposition when it comes to unneccesarily putting his health on the line, but I would never do anything that could negatively impact his work/job (just the opposite, in fact).

I wish I had some better answers for you but I don't have any experience with the F/m dynamic. I know that society has a different take on F/m relationships than it does on the M/f dynamic. My own personal reaction is "fuck 'em if they don't like it." but that's me and my inner rebel coming out.

I think that's part of it. I'm sure we'd hear about abuse if it was M/f, but there's definitely a lot of resistance to the idea of F/m. It's especially taboo in his industry, which mainly Latino, Asian and American men and there's a lot of prejudice. Coming out as a M/f would likely get lots of praise, but we have to be careful about not revealing our dynamic so he fits in.

 

[liberatedslave]

Sir and I discuss things openly and I know that values my input on all aspects of our relationship. I do stay within a certain boundary of respect when addressing him that doesn't change when we're in the company of others. A close friend of mine has commented that I don't question him and that I obey him 'too much.' There are reasons why it would not be appropriate to tell this friend about our dynamic.

If Sir says or suggests something that I don't agree with in public I'll be polite but non-committal and then we can address the issue later in private. I would feel terribly disrespectful of him if I did otherwise. Outside of that I'm obedient unless there's an obvious reason and I'll always be respectful.

There's been a few times I've nearly called him Sir where others can hear but I haven't yet. I'm not ashamed of our power exchange, I just can't be bothered with the way people might react and in any case I think it would be for Sir to 'out' us as a D/s couple to somebody if he thought fit.

In the case with my friend I've said that I'm very happy in my relationship and want to do things for my partner. I've made it out to be just my nature, which it is, but my friend still seems determined to think that I'm slightly weak and am 'making a rod for my own back.'



... Oooh I hope so *shivers*

 

[RJMasters]

How about your husband tells him...

You live your life how you want to and I will live mine my way and if that isn't clear enough for you then fuck off. You certainly aren't any kind of success story or role model in how one should live their life. Your reckless with your life and the lives of others when it comes to your dirving and you can't hold your own relationships together.

So in the future if you don't like it, just keep your fucking comments to yourself.

 

[catalina_francisco]

How about your husband tells him...

You live your life how you want to and I will live mine my way and if that isn't clear enough for you then fuck off. You certainly aren't any kind of success story or role model in how one should live their life. Your reckless with your life and the lives of others when it comes to your dirving and you can't hold your own relationships together.

So in the future if you don't like it, just keep your fucking comments to yourself.

Hmmm, might make workplace relations a little tense in the future, at the very least.

Catalina

 

[FurryFury]

People always seem to want to see women that way as controlling bitches. My answer to that is, no, she isn't controlling him, unless he lets her. If he lets her, he has decided that is more important to him than your poker night or whatever the hell you think he should do with you to show how pussy whipped he's not. No one can really control another unless they are allowed to that's my opinion. That's what I tell people when I hear this drivel. Fuckers.

Fury

 

[RJMasters]

Hmmm, might make workplace relations a little tense in the future, at the very least.

Catalina

I knda of thought that what the other guy already was doing when he said the things he did. It would be nice if this co-work would give the same consideration to keeping the workplace relations ameable.

To me this is like facing down a bully. You can do it one of three ways. You can ignore him, you can try to finesse him, or you can throw whatever bullshit they are throwing your way back at them.

The point is, he obviously is not one to be educated or have an open mind, so the only way for E's husband to get any kind of respect from this guy is to basicaly stand up for himself. That doesn't mean he has to go into the whole D/s thing, it just means he has to tell this guy to butt the fuck out of his personal life and let him live his life the way he chooses. At least then the guy will realize he has no right to comment the way he did and will avoid doing so in the future or he will go on being a pighead SOB, in which case there is nothing loss in being an asshole back to him.

That's how I see it.

 

[graceanne]

I knda of thought that what the other guy already was doing when he said the things he did. It would be nice if this co-work would give the same consideration to keeping the workplace relations ameable.

To me this is like facing down a bully. You can do it one of three ways. You can ignore him, you can try to finesse him, or you can throw whatever bullshit they are throwing your way back at them.

The point is, he obviously is not one to be educated or have an open mind, so the only way for E's husband to get any kind of respect from this guy is to basicaly stand up for himself. That doesn't mean he has to go into the whole D/s thing, it just means he has to tell this guy to butt the fuck out of his personal life and let him live his life the way he chooses. At least then the guy will realize he has no right to comment the way he did and will avoid doing so in the future or he will go on being a pighead SOB, in which case there is nothing loss in being an asshole back to him.

That's how I see it.

I gotta wonder if this is perhaps a difference of male a female perspective.

Me and K had a thanksgiving-y thing with his family. My brother and sister (ages 16 and 19) were visiting for the holiday. I called and made sure it was ok to bring them it was. While there a couple people made snotty comment about my sister (the 16 year old) smoking. I just shrugged and told them she's not my child, I don't have any say on whether or not she smokes. I was talking to K about it later and he said 'What? Why don't they ever make these snotty coments to me?' I shrugged, and he said 'Probably cause they know I'd tell them to mind their own fucking business' '. LOL I pointed out that would have made thanksgiving very uncomfortable for everyone, but he didn't care. As far as he was concerned they didn't mind making it uncomfortable for me and my sister.

It seems to me that his way of dealing with it would have been very similar to how you'd have dealt with the co-worker situation. And you both might be right, cause K's family doesn't give him anywhere near the amount of shit they give me. On the other hand if I'd said something like that, I'd have gotten in a fight with whoever, then we'd have had to leave early, and my kids would have been upset. By ignoring their comments my kids had a nice time with their family, and I didn't have to deal with the literal stomach ache that confrontations give me.

 

[Stiffy Says...]

I've worked with guys like him....they can't handle a guy being respectful of his SO's wishes....there's really nothing you say or do that will change their mind, nor does it matter...really! They're gonna have their backwards-ass way of looking at the word, and nothing he says will change it.

As long as the two of you are ok with the dynamic of your relationship, fuck what this guy thinks - it's really irrelevant. For all he knows your hubby might beat and control you at home and just be playing meek...really, he's just an ass trying to emasculate another guy to feel superior. If it works by getting under your skin and his skin, then he wins - pure and simple.

His verbal diarrhea might continue, but it's not up to your husband to fix it. That's the boss' job supposedly.

Gee, can you tell I've had to deal with guys like him? LOL

 

[MasterPhoenix]

Say "mind your own fucking business" as politely as possible.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I knda of thought that what the other guy already was doing when he said the things he did. It would be nice if this co-work would give the same consideration to keeping the workplace relations ameable.

To me this is like facing down a bully. You can do it one of three ways. You can ignore him, you can try to finesse him, or you can throw whatever bullshit they are throwing your way back at them.

The point is, he obviously is not one to be educated or have an open mind, so the only way for E's husband to get any kind of respect from this guy is to basicaly stand up for himself. That doesn't mean he has to go into the whole D/s thing, it just means he has to tell this guy to butt the fuck out of his personal life and let him live his life the way he chooses. At least then the guy will realize he has no right to comment the way he did and will avoid doing so in the future or he will go on being a pighead SOB, in which case there is nothing loss in being an asshole back to him.

That's how I see it.

2 wrongs don't make a right though. I tend to think confrontation and aggression are last resorts, not the first option.http://www.smilies4u.net/images/plapper_discuss/pd_007.gif

Catalina

 

[liberatedslave]

The way i see this now, Erika's husband's co-worker thinks he's weak and henpecked. IMO being polite to this guy when he's been rude himself will just convince this co-worker that he's right. I agree with RJ that nothing will be lost in pointing out firmly that your relationship with each other is private & that you are both more than happy with it. At least then this guy knows that your husband has self respect & will not be told either that he is weak or his wife is a bitch.

 

[catalina_francisco]

The way i see this now, Erika's husband's co-worker thinks he's weak and henpecked. IMO being polite to this guy when he's been rude himself will just convince this co-worker that he's right. I agree with RJ that nothing will be lost in pointing out firmly that your relationship with each other is private & that you are both more than happy with it. At least then this guy knows that your husband has self respect & will not be told either that he is weak or his wife is a bitch.

Well see, I said that way back (the pointing out it is your relationship etc), just I didn't see a need for aggression from the first move to do that. If people choose to overlook attitudes from others more often and reply in a way which does not have to bring them down to the other's level, there would not be so much conflict in the world. You might be surprised, sometimes people with these types of issues sometimes do respond well to not getting the same back and actually not only listen, but see another POV...not always, but you don't ever know if your first response is to also be rude and confrontational. My interpretation of it is if E's husbands first response was to act aggerssively and rude, he might actually be weak because he has allowed someone else to motivate him to be rude also. I guess I am just not someone who allows others to set the agenda for my behaviour preferring to maintain my own code of behaviour and not be influenced to adopt their ways. There are so many options before aggression need even be thought about and which might help escalating a molehill into a mountain.

Catalina

 

[SweetErika]

I've worked with guys like him....they can't handle a guy being respectful of his SO's wishes....there's really nothing you say or do that will change their mind, nor does it matter...really! They're gonna have their backwards-ass way of looking at the word, and nothing he says will change it.

As long as the two of you are ok with the dynamic of your relationship, fuck what this guy thinks - it's really irrelevant. For all he knows your hubby might beat and control you at home and just be playing meek...really, he's just an ass trying to emasculate another guy to feel superior. If it works by getting under your skin and his skin, then he wins - pure and simple.

His verbal diarrhea might continue, but it's not up to your husband to fix it. That's the boss' job supposedly.

Gee, can you tell I've had to deal with guys like him? LOL

You nailed him. Like the classic bully, he tends to get rude/mean when things aren't going well for him, and right now they're going really wrong.

Hubby likely could have gotten away with, "Fuck off," but bringing this guy's personal life into it wouldn't have gone over well. As others have said, it probably would have told him he was able to get to my husband with that comment and the harassment would continue, and/or it'd make work extremely uncomfortable. In the past, ignoring or telling him to fuck off have been fairly effective, whereas touching on sensitive issues unintentionally (not that one ever knows what exactly those are) has had poor results.

 

[chris9]

I've gotten comments like this even without being in a D/s relationship. Rather seeing me as the dominant.
I've always handled it with a touch of humour. Not giving away anything. Over-exaggerating. Like sometimes I would tell a friend I had to check back with S to see "what the sir desires/wants". Tongue firmly in cheek. Never taking it seriously/answering seriously.
This way I hope that noone really knows what's going on. I'd make the same comments if I was in a D/s relationship. It would not be a lie, but everybody would understand it as a joke.

If you both are comfortable with it, you can play around with little comments going both ways. Like if he feels uncomfortable because his coworkers suspect some of the power dynamic, dropping a little comment that conveys the idea of him having that kind of power over you could help to lead everyone to confusion. It's not their business, so it doesn't matter if they don't know what's going on.

 

[the captians wench]

What do you say when someone, say a coworker, friend, or family member who doesn't know about your D/s dynamic, comments on the power/control in your relationship?

An example: My husband's coworker has to go over the mountains to inspect product today. The weather is really treacherous and this guy has proven himself to be a poor and irresponsible driver in bad conditions. He wanted my husband to go with him, and I said, "Absolutely not - it's too dangerous," out of care and concern, and he overheard this. I'd say the same even without the D/s dynamic, but with it, he's compelled to comply with my decision (which he would really do anyway, as he doesn't feel it's safe either, but saying so would cause problems with this coworker).

The coworker said, "Well, if you let your wife control your life, then do what you've gotta do," in an icky tone and a few other negative comments about allowing me to have that much influence.

My husband kind of brushes it off, but doesn't really know how to respond to comments like this. I'm sure comments about control will come up for both of us in the future, as people may mistake me for a controlling (and possibly abusive) bitch and him for a pussy-whipped weenie.

So, how have you dealt with comments from those who don't know about your dynamic in the past? Do you have some good responses ready for situations like this? Or do you try to make sure it seems like you each make decisions for yourselves so it doesn't appear there's influence from your partner (e.g. saying "I have decided..."?

I don't think this is nessasarily a dynamic issue. Infact my ex and I had this same problem, and we were totally nilla. Besides that I'm very much submissive and always have been, but when it came to issues that I felt strongly about I would tell him what for.

The only example I can really think of is not a great one, but the one that sticks out in my mind the most. When he went off and had his affair, part of the agreement when I welcomed him back, was that he would never speak to the other girl...period. Well she didn't like that, and would im him things saying how he should do what he thought was best and not let me control his life.

There is one other time I heard the issue that I was controlling him, and that was when he wanted to give his mom money for the umpteenmillionth time. She was getting more money that we were at the time, and I told him we couldn't afford to hand out money, especially to those who one make more than we do, and two spend their bill money at the casino and then expect us to bail them out. His mom told him that he should leave me because I was controlling him and he didn't even know how to think for himself anymore.

Anytime you say something that some one else doesn't like they come up with some off the wall thing. If a guy says he'd rather stay home with the wife than go out with the guys one night, all of a sudden he's whipped and his wife wears the pants. It's bullshit, and a smart man will shrug it off and do what they think is right anyway.

If this had been a year a go, would you still be so concerned about what he should say when the subject of your d/s seems to come up? You probably wouldn't have even considered it a d/s issue. Some times when we hide things from other people we tend to be more sincitive to the issue of that which we are hiding. I'm sure this guy has no clue your hubby subs to you, so I wouldn't lead on to the fact that he does by getting defencive over something that might be totally unrelated.

just my opinion.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

To me this is like facing down a bully. You can do it one of three ways. You can ignore him, you can try to finesse him, or you can throw whatever bullshit they are throwing your way back at them.

You forgot one.

 

[RJMasters]

You forgot one.

Yes I did, didn't I. Must be slipping.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Yes I did, didn't I. Must be slipping.

Not really.

Most like handling things directly, and in the case of an "unaware" co-worker friend, this situation can be without tipping your hand so to speak.

In the situation related by the OP, however, a simple visit to the HR department shuts down an asshat immediately.

• Companies don't like lawsuits.
• Personal comments based on observations have no place in the workplace.
• Asshat gets fired with the next stupid "icky tone (and/or) other negative comments" out of his mouth.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

Not really.

Most like handling things directly, and in the case of an "unaware" co-worker friend, this situation can be without tipping your hand so to speak.

In the situation related by the OP, however, a simple visit to the HR department shuts down an asshat immediately.

• Companies don't like lawsuits.
• Personal comments based on observations have no place in the workplace.
• Asshat gets fired with the next stupid "icky tone (and/or) other negative comments" out of his mouth.

The absolute best way to handle it in my opinion.

And good to see you around.

 

[SweetErika]

I don't think this is nessasarily a dynamic issue. Infact my ex and I had this same problem, and we were totally nilla. Besides that I'm very much submissive and always have been, but when it came to issues that I felt strongly about I would tell him what for.

<snip>

If this had been a year a go, would you still be so concerned about what he should say when the subject of your d/s seems to come up? You probably wouldn't have even considered it a d/s issue. Some times when we hide things from other people we tend to be more sincitive to the issue of that which we are hiding. I'm sure this guy has no clue your hubby subs to you, so I wouldn't lead on to the fact that he does by getting defencive over something that might be totally unrelated.

just my opinion.

It's a dynamic issue in the sense that we do have a D/s relationship and things like this are going to come up at times. I wasn't asserting it doesn't happen outside of D/s; quite the opposite, in fact.

I'm more cognizant of things like this now because we've recognized our dynamic and realize others are going to see the effects of it once in awhile. When something comes up, we're eager to explore it and hear others' experiences, since that's proved helpful so far. It has nothing to do with being more sensitive because we're keeping this private, and everything to do with having ideas of how we'll deal with the situations that will inevitably come up.

This thread was never intended to be an, "OMG, what should we do!?!" kind of deal, but rather a discussion of how members respond to unaware people who comment/express concern on their behavior that results from their dynamic. A lot of times I just use a specific situation to illustrate my point and elicit ideas that have wide applications. We've received tons of great thoughts so far that we'll put to good use, even if it's just a matter of changing our perception of certain things.

Oh, and AA, when I said it was a very small company, I meant there are 8 people total, and nothing like an HR department. The comment this time wouldn't have warranted that anyway, but there are many instances in which HR would be extremely helpful in this company. My husband has taken his coworker's comments on other topics to the owners a time or two with good results, but the culture generally dictates employees are to work more minor things out amongst themselves.