What do you do if your sub is a coward?

[Marquis]

So, you've heard of those stubborn subs who won't safeword until you put them in the hospital?

I have the opposite problem. I so much as breathe on this bitch and she safewords.

The worst part is, after over a year of whupping her ass, I have a pretty good sense of when enough is enough. For a while I was ignoring her safewords because of how frivolously she used them and things always seemed to turn out ok. Well she's been pissing me off recently and she's well due for a beating, but we've on this new "respect the red" kick and I just know she is going to chicken out and ruin the experience for both of us.

What do you say guys, follow my heart?

 

[Chicklet]

Is she the type who would get off on the "I'm totally helpless, he's ignoring my safeword" idea? I am, at times. In those cases I like to feel like I have absolutely no power... I always choose "stop" as my safeword, and I'll say it right when I get scared, even though I get off on the fear.

My sollution? Changing the safeword. Or adding to it. In these cases, with me, my partner waits for me to say "Stop, *seriously*" and stops.

This brings to mind my own personal experience this weekend. My PYL was in town and I gave him a new whip I'd bought him. I don't know what it was... maybe the three weeks I'd been staring at this thing, scared shitless of it, or if my body just wasn't going to receive anything even if I wanted it, but I had this feeling that I couldn't go through with what he had planned. I told him beforehand that I needed him to be gentle, but I don't know if he took me seriously. He used that scarier-than-shit whip on me (okay, well, it was scary TO ME, some of you probably wouldn't have minded it ) and about two strokes in I was trying to cover myself, shaking my head, letting him know that I needed to stop. He stopped, for a while, played with me other ways, and then picked it up again. I couldn't take more than two strokes and was shaking my head again and giving him my signal to stop. I think at this point, since I was gagged, he was in a connundrum: did I really want him to stop or was I just being bratty? He did the best thing and wagered his money on my seriousness, and stopped. (I was gagged, couldn't tell him out loud.) If he had gone on, I woulda been really fucked up about it. He *really* wanted to use that more on me. Hopefully he'll be able to the next time I see him. But if he hadn't stopped it would have seriously hurt whatever relationship he and I have.

Maybe you could try something like this with your partner. Tell her that the safeword will get a consideration, but that it won't stop unless she lets you know she absolutely definitely for sure wants it to stop.

Otherwise, Marquis, I say respect her safeword. Your choices include punishing her another way that's going to be just as meaningful, holding off on the punishment, or going through it without her consent. I hope you don't do that = ( Maybe she's had enough of the pain, even for the sake of pleasing you, and truly wants it to stop. We're not all masochists, and I recall the chick in your picture thread isn't into pain. I'm a believer in the idea that we can only please our lovers so much before our own needs kick in.

Does that make any sense?

 

[Marquis]

Does that make any sense?

Yes, unfortunately.

 

[Marquis]

Let me be honest.

I'm looking to beat her right up until the point where the law of diminishing returns kicks in and the overall effect has a negative long term effect. The intensity of her temporary discomfort is not particularly problematic for me.

If I feel like I can safely gauge this point, isn't it my right, nay, my duty to take her there?! For the sake of our relationship!

I'm just trying to do the right thing here guys, someone must be with me on this.

Bytor perhaps?

 

[Chicklet]

I'm looking to beat her right up until the point where the law of diminishing returns kicks in and the overall effect has a negative long term effect. The intensity of her temporary discomfort is not particularly problematic for me.

If I feel like I can safely gauge this point, isn't it my right, nay, my duty to take her there?! For the sake of our relationship!

It sounds more to me like if you've reached a point where you seriously want to punish her for a serious reason, and don't care about her discomfort or her safeword, then your relationship is already doomed.

Be angry, be mad, give her the silent treatment, do whatever vanilla couples do when they've truly, seriously pissed each other off, but don't take your anger out in a physical form. And if you do, don't hide behind "For the sake of our relationship!"

 

[*curious*]

Hmm...

Presuming this is a relationship you wish to keep and you have worked out any emotional/psychological/etc reasons for her to safeword so easily...

The submissive in me says that if you agree to use safewords whilst playing you respect them- always. Period, end of story.

The Domme in me says if safewords are used friviolously there needs to be serious consequences. Not necessarily a beating... but no pleasure, no orgasm, no rewards of any sort for the submissive until she understands that a safe word isn't something to play with and is ready to use safewords like a responsible play-partner.

If I were on the Top side of the equation I'd explain why there would be no more climaxing/etc on her part and we'd re-evaluate things after X amount of time. Then I'd go about ensuring *my* pleasure was not interrupted. Lick my shoes, draw my bath, clean my house, fluff my pillows, dress as I desire, and I'd better damn well be getting as many climaxes as I choose. I'd probably also assign a research project (with citations) on why safewords are important and dictate the format it is to be delivered in (A Powerpoint presentation given wearing only ankle cuffs and heels?? Some obscure pain in the ass layout that makes a doctoral disseration look like child's play?). The paper would be corrected and redone until I was happy with it. (I'm a geek like that...)

He and I are both massochists... a beating wouldn't really do much good as punishment for either of us. But if we used safewords and he or I used them frivilously I'd expect to either see the relationship come to a screeching halt, or have any and all pleasure removed from the safeword-er in question until we were on the same page regarding the issue.

 

[Marquis]

It sounds more to me like if you've reached a point where you seriously want to punish her for a serious reason, and don't care about her discomfort or her safeword, then your relationship is already doomed.

Be angry, be mad, give her the silent treatment, do whatever vanilla couples do when they've truly, seriously pissed each other off, but don't take your anger out in a physical form. And if you do, don't hide behind "For the sake of our relationship!"

Square!

 

[Marquis]

Hmm...

Presuming this is a relationship you wish to keep and you have worked out any emotional/psychological/etc reasons for her to safeword so easily...

The submissive in me says that if you agree to use safewords whilst playing you respect them- always. Period, end of story.

The Domme in me says if safewords are used friviolously there needs to be serious consequences. Not necessarily a beating... but no pleasure, no orgasm, no rewards of any sort for the submissive until she understands that a safe word isn't something to play with and is ready to use safewords like a responsible play-partner.

If I were on the Top side of the equation I'd explain why there would be no more climaxing/etc on her part and we'd re-evaluate things after X amount of time. Then I'd go about ensuring *my* pleasure was not interrupted. Lick my shoes, draw my bath, clean my house, fluff my pillows, dress as I desire, and I'd better damn well be getting as many climaxes as I choose. I'd probably also assign a research project (with citations) on why safewords are important and dictate the format it is to be delivered in (A Powerpoint presentation given wearing only ankle cuffs and heels?? Some obscure pain in the ass layout that makes a doctoral disseration look like child's play?). The paper would be corrected and redone until I was happy with it. (I'm a geek like that...)

He and I are both massochists... a beating wouldn't really do much good as punishment for either of us. But if we used safewords and he or I used them frivilously I'd expect to either see the relationship come to a screeching halt, or have any and all pleasure removed from the safeword-er in question until we were on the same page regarding the issue.

God, I love it when I get a good answer to a dumb topic.

Powerpoint presentation, that is fucking capital!

 

[*curious*]

God, I love it when I get a good answer to a dumb topic.

Powerpoint presentation, that is fucking capital!

Why, thank you!

 

[serijules]

I think the question should be "what is a sadist doing with a bottom"?

or vice versa...

Just sayin.

 

[Marquis]

I think the question should be "what is a sadist doing with a bottom"?

or vice versa...

Just sayin.

Now now, I won't have that kind of talk in here.

If half the subs on this board can be married to the "sweetest vanilla man ever" I can be happy with my non-maso sub. I wouldn't mind a masochistic play partner, but I can't say I'm dying to be in a relationship with a bitch who breaks my dishes in the hopes of getting fucked up.

 

[Netzach]

Why are you trying to make foie gras in a toaster? Find a painslut who appreciates crying till her snot runs, or suck up.

edited to add, you're not going to like what I have to say on it either.

 

[*curious*]

Now now, I won't have that kind of talk in here.

If half the subs on this board can be married to the "sweetest vanilla man ever" I can be happy with my non-maso sub. I wouldn't mind a masochistic play partner, but I can't say I'm dying to be in a relationship with a bitch who breaks my dishes in the hopes of getting fucked up.

Not all masochists play games to create an excuse for pain.

 

[Netzach]

Not all masochists play games to create an excuse for pain.

Hear hear.

I don't suffer that shit at all, and I still get to work as hard as I want. Mean Netz means you've been very very good.

 

[Marquis]

Oh come on people, leave me with some semblence of denial!

The insensitivity, JEES!

 

[serijules]

Now now, I won't have that kind of talk in here.

If half the subs on this board can be married to the "sweetest vanilla man ever" I can be happy with my non-maso sub. I wouldn't mind a masochistic play partner, but I can't say I'm dying to be in a relationship with a bitch who breaks my dishes in the hopes of getting fucked up.

It was a honest question....honest.

Sidenote: People use the word "sweet" when they can't bring themselves to say what they really feel.

I guess my point is, if you want to be happy with your non-maso sub, then you pretty much have to be patient with her non-maso ways. I know you know that though.

I don't have much patience for situations where safewords are toyed with. Either way it doesn't sound like she's being very honest with you; either she's not being honest about her limits and safewording when she doesn't really need to, or she isn't being communicative about her limits and you are misreading her. Or both. Something's gotta change.

Im a masochist...I've had partners that were not sadists. It wasn't long before they bore me to tears, no matter how much I loved them. I wished it were different, but...some times its a choice between compatible or conform.

BTW, masochistic doesn't equal manipulation. Breaking dishes? Aint my kink. It's much more painful to ask for what I want and risk not getting it.

Happy 1000th post to me. Only took me 3+ years.

 

[jadefirefly]

Poor, poor Marquis...

Frankly, my idea mirrors *curious*. Withholding of all things good and pleasurable until the point has been made.

Being the wimpy little thing that I am, I'm not all gung-ho on beatings and shit, but I do believe some sort of unpleasant punishment is in order. Otherwise she'll just keep doing it, and you'll just keep being annoyed, and weren't you the one talking about operant conditioning just the other day?

Methinks this chick's got you pretty well conditioned. How d'ye like them apples? I'd do somethin' about it, if I was you.

 

[graceanne]

If you are determined to do it your way you gotta face the risk that their might be consequences, for you, that you might not like. Like causing permanent scars.

I'd say that whenever she safewords that things stop there. Everything. Maybe something to finish you getting off, but other than that, she gets dressed, finishes you, and goes home. That idea.

 

[NemoAlia]

Obviously it's time to take away safewords and switch entirely to paragraphs of explanation. Like, "You can get out of this only if you write an essay about why you stopped the scene." Or at least, "I'll stop if you tell me honestly that your leg is broken, you're having an asthma attack, or you're going to have to see a therapist for the next five years. But you'll have to explain the situation to my satisfaction first."

 

[AngelicAssassin]

appreciates crying till her snot runs ...

*delicious shiver*

Obviously it's time to take away safewords and switch entirely to paragraphs of explanation. Like, "You can get out of this only if you write an essay about why you stopped the scene." Or at least, "I'll stop if you tell me honestly that your leg is broken, you're having an asthma attack, or you're going to have to see a therapist for the next five years. But you'll have to explain the situation to my satisfaction first."

*insert applause icon here*

BTW, welcome to the deep end Marquis.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

You people are soooooooo scary at times .......smiles

 

[shaymless]

Obviously it's time to take away safewords and switch entirely to paragraphs of explanation. Like, "You can get out of this only if you write an essay about why you stopped the scene." Or at least, "I'll stop if you tell me honestly that your leg is broken, you're having an asthma attack, or you're going to have to see a therapist for the next five years. But you'll have to explain the situation to my satisfaction first."

This is probably the best advice I've ever seen . I don't safeword quickly, but there have been times, particularly with one relationship where he was more sadistic than I am masochistic that I would do everything BUT safeword to get out of a beating - cry, kick, scream, whimper...honestly distressed but unwilling to safe out because somewhere inside me, I wanted and needed that push...it was just too soon mentally for me to groove on it. For whatever reason, until that switch flips in my brain, I am seriously one unhappy camper when the serious pain tools come out.


What I've discovered works well (for me, anyway) is a good warm up. I know that sounds really simplistic and obvious, but the "oh, that feels nice...more please" stuff gives me that time to shut the brain off and enjoy the sensation of pain until I'm at that place where it's more..."oh, that really hurts...more please!!" If she's not maso at all, that won't work, but if she's been taking whuppins for a year, I'd venture there's a little something somewhere that feels good for you to start with. For me it's my nipples - you can twist and pull them into the next room - hell, the next city over even - and I'm all good from the get go. Start with a pussy whippin' and I'm done. Sneak it up on me and whip while you're twisting a nip? Then I'll not notice until all of a sudden I'm lovin' that.

And the Powerpoint presentation? Yipes, I'd never use my safeword again. Ever. Yipes. Sheer evil genius.

 

[Kajira Callista]

hmmmm worded to sound almost like you are joking with a twinge of seriousness. i havent had enough coffee to reply to this but i will be back.

 

[His_pita]

I have no real life experience yet to really comment on this. But, my Dom told me that when it's going to be punishment I won't get to use my safeword. He will decide for me when I have had enough punishment. Might that work for you? I think everyone had good ideas on making her really think about why she is doing this by making her prove she is right in wanting her safeword.

 

[chris9]

Marquis, do you know why she uses her safe-word so much? Could be cowardice, could be real fear, could be that her limits are very different from what she would like you to think.
Does she know that you really don't like her to use her safe-word so much? Does she know why?
If you and her have talked about this and know how each other feel about it, it's ultimately your decision if you will still be respecting her safe-word, or take any other measure to teach her not to use it so often. Until you have communicated all of this and know what really happens and why and had the opportunity to think it through WITHOUT being mad/influenced by anger, you cannot make a right decision.
Yes, in essence it's the good old advice of communication, communication, communication