What are you sick of/want to see more of?

[Queerbait]

Okay, so I really like writing and I want to become better. I've been writing since I learned and I feel like I'm pretty good but I still feel like I need a lot of work. UHmm... That whole spill was beside my point haha.

But one thing I'm really working on is plots and I looove doing really out there things, my interests tend to be splayed, but I'm also a people pleaser. SO, I was wondering what are you absolutely sick of hearing about (in plots) and what are you dying to get more of?

I'm sick of stories that are about totally "average" straight men having a "gay" experience because it always seems to have the most annoying...i don't know the guy just bothers me, I can't even read them.

I'd LOVE to see more stories where the fact that the characters are gay isn't like the premiere attribute of the story, like there's a plot and yeah there's sex but the characters just so happen to be gay, like it's not a big deal. You know? A natural story where the gay isn't really part of the plot I guess... i don't know I hope you get what I'm saying.

 

[sr71plt]

I'd LOVE to see more stories where the fact that the characters are gay isn't like the premiere attribute of the story, like there's a plot and yeah there's sex but the characters just so happen to be gay, like it's not a big deal. You know? A natural story where the gay isn't really part of the plot I guess... i don't know I hope you get what I'm saying.

You might try other sites. This is an erotica site, so it shouldn't be a surprise that sex being the big deal would be key to a story posted here.

If being gay isn't part of the tension of the story, why write in the gay angle at all?

I do write a level of GM stories where the plot is more important than the sex (and that the sex isn't graphically depicted in the story), but I think you ask a bit too much to expect a gay story where sexuality is just sort of incidental--and, especially, to find it posted to this site. There probably are some posted here, though.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

[...cut...]

I'm sick of stories that are about totally "average" straight men having a "gay" experience because it always seems to have the most annoying...i don't know the guy just bothers me, I can't even read them.

I'd LOVE to see more stories where the fact that the characters are gay isn't like the premiere attribute of the story, like there's a plot and yeah there's sex but the characters just so happen to be gay, like it's not a big deal. You know? A natural story where the gay isn't really part of the plot I guess... i don't know I hope you get what I'm saying.

I'm not sure I get what you mean. You want a gay story that doesn't depend on the characters being gay? It seems to me that gayness is the point of a gay sex story, like BDSM is the point of a BDSM story or a wife's cheating is the point of a cheating wife story.

You mean you want to write a story involving gays that doesn't depend on their homosexuality as a plot element? Like doing Hamlet or The Wizard of Oz with an all gay cast?

I mean no offense, but if you really want to become a better writer, the fist skill you need is the ability to express exactly and precisely what you think and feel. You need to clarify.

 

[TE999]

... if you really want to become a better writer, the fist skill you need is...

Talk about an apropos typo. *snerk*

 

[Queerbait]

I don't think you guys get what I'm saying at all. Okay, I'll take that I do sound super amateur because I use like a lot or whatever I don't care but here we go:
1. DUH. I obviously know it's an erotic story website. I am not an idiot.
2. I am not an amateur write. Clarity is important and whatever, this just so happens to be something that's hard to explain because I don't know exactly what's wrong with these stories. But I'll try to spell it out better.

I suppose what I want to see is actual plots. Where the category the story is in isn't it's plot. NO, the point of a gay sex story is not neccessarily "hey these two guys are gay they're having sex". It;s okay to have a plot you know. The sex should definitely be part of it because otherwise it doesn't need to be on this site, but the one thing you think about when you think about the character shouldn't be the character's sexuality. Real plots and real character developement beyond the category the story falls into. I think it shows a lack of skill to not have either, even in short stories and even in romance/erotic stories.

Next I'd like to say, there are a ton of reasons why someone would write from a gay perspective without the fact that the characters being gay is their main attribute. I feel like it's a question similar to "Why write fantasy if there's no fairies in it?"

 

[oggbashan]

There are many stories with plots on Literotica. There are so many stories than even the most obscure sexual fetish can be found somewhere.

There are Literotica stories that are just scenes of sexual encounters, including Gay ones. Those scenes can be very popular, attracting hundreds of votes. Many people want erotica that is direct and persuasive.

There are Literotica stories that tell stories, with plots and sub-plots, with significant character development and interaction. If you like more complex stories then you can find them.

There are experimental stories, twisted stories, simple and complex ones.

Are any 'better' or 'worse' than another? That is a subjective judgement to be made by the reader. What might be good for a particular reader today might not be so good tomorrow. It depends on the reader's mood at the time.

Even bad grammar and spelling mistakes won't necessarily make a story bad. The plot or scene might appeal and the errors can be overlooked for a story that appeals to you.

By starting this thread you are expressing your own preferences. Some of us might agree. Some will disagree. Whatever you want in a story it is likely to be here somewhere but there are a large number of stories to search through.

Og

 

[dr_mabeuse]

We talk about the place of non-erotic plot elements in erotic stories quite a bit. In fact, there's a thread on this very subject over on the Story Discussion Circle Board that's been going on for over a year, I think (too damned lazy to check.) People seem to fall into one of three categories regarding the issue: either they like non-erotic plot in stories, or they don't, or they don't really care one way or the other. And that about covers it.

The thing is, you're going to keep on bumping up against the fact that this is an erotic story site, and readers come here looking for stories that feature sex. They don't come here looking for stories about gays coping with society, or solving mysteries, or falling in love. That stuff is the provenance of non-erotic fiction, and more properly belongs on a gay-lit site or whatever.

The other thing is, this is an amateur story site. Most of the stuff here by far is written by amateurs, who usually just don't have the skill (or the interest) it takes to flesh out a story and give it meaning and depth. Like the readers, they want to get to the fucking, and most of their stories aren't much more than written sex fantasies.

That being said, there certainly are authors here who are more plot-driven and do a better job of developing characters and putting the sex in some kind of social or psychological context. The AH's own sr17plt is an excellent writer, and under the author name of habu does a lot of quite remarkable bi and gay stuff that's always smart, deep, and compelling. He might be what you're looking for.

 

[sr71plt]

That being said, there certainly are authors here who are more plot-driven and do a better job of developing characters and putting the sex in some kind of social or psychological context. The AH's own sr17plt is an excellent writer, and under the author name of habu does a lot of quite remarkable bi and gay stuff that's always smart, deep, and compelling. He might be what you're looking for.

Wow, thanks for the endorsement, Dr. M.

I do write plot-driven, toned down GM works for the market under the name habu (but I also write my sizzlers under that name--so you have to differentiate by publisher). And there are some out that I've cowritten with Sabb. These are under the author name Stephen Kessel. They are published by Cyberworld Publishing (The Forever Man, combining an Australian legend with an American one, was just released). I don't post them on Literotica, because, as several have posted here, this is an erotica site. So, the toned-down habu GMs are published by Cyberworld; the sizzler habus by eXcessica and BarbarianSpy.

Concerning the gender preference not being crucial to plot, interestingly enough, you might check out a straight (Mature category) story I've recently posted to Lit.: "Saving Sadie." This is essentially a retool of what was originally a habu GM Cyberworld Publishing work under the title Saving Cleo. Comparing the two would show (I hope) that the sexuality wasn't crucial to the plot (while still being a plot element).

 

[Bebeslut]

I publish here because it's a porn site and I've always wanted to publish porn. However, I feel -- though not everyone agrees -- that my characters are interesting individuals and the plots derive from their attitudes. Because they do, they sometimes go off in a not-so-porn direction, and in stories like "The Crew: The Pimp" and "The Crew: The Race" the sex definitely takes a back seat. In fact, I beefed up the sex in "The Race" so I could feel right including it in a collection of other Crew stories I am publishing on Kindle.

Lit is a great place to publish because there are so few "guidelines" and the publishers don't really care what you publish, so you can write pretty much any kind of story you want, with emphasis pretty much up to you. If you want to write a plot-driven story about gays that has but doesn't rely on the sex, by all means, do so! It will find a place here. I've done it; you can, too.

 

[Handley_Page]

I'm sick of so much politics on the AH lately. It's a bit parochial !

 

[sr71plt]

I'm sick of so much politics on the AH lately. It's a bit parochial !

I've seen very little politics on AH this election. All you have to do is put five or six posters on ignore and you won't even see the threads, let alone the "discussion."

 

[Guest]

But is the point being missed?

deleted

 

[sr71plt]

Interesting questions.

I was struck with the sexual tension as being at the center of an erotic story, and I agree with this.

What this made me think about, though, is that one response to the OP is that sexual tension can be at the center of a story that doesn't deliver sex act(s)--at least on stage. And I'm wondering if stories like this are what the OP would like to see. I can't go so far as to say that a story where gayness isn't an issue even though the key characters are gay can even be considered a gay story, though. It can be written--and can certainly be a good story. But then, I think the gayness is totally irrelevant to the story and is an acceptable element but just isn't a distinguishing one.

As far as writing out of the mold, I think what you do is look for an element of surprise in a story that takes it out of the mold. For example, in my mainstream murder mystery novels I quite often have the obvious villain actually be the villain--and make some other element of the story the unexpected twist. Readers are so conditioned to the obvious villain not being the villain (especially in TV programs) that the tossed up cliche becomes part of the mold-breaking surprise.

In my erotica short stories, I try to go beyond the obvious "dilemma" (e.g., how is the protagonist going to be psychologically prepared to engage in a GM act?) to some less obvious dilemma that's causing the tension/consternation.

For instance, in my "Next," the reader is led to believe that a protagonist is being two-timed by his lover and thus "goes wild" in a gay nightclub in retaliatory reaction, when the actual dilemma is that he's found the lover unexpectedly dead and, in shock, is reacting to an entirely different--and not as cliched--a desertion.

So, what I often look for is something that turns the cliche on its head. Thus, a good many of my protagonists are fairly happy prostitutes--which makes the story zip right by the usual cliches and pitfalls of erotica from the get go.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

The challenge, as I see it, is to write something that is unique and interesting, but by virtue of writing to a particular genre, there seem to be common traps and cliche's. The difficulty is that by being too unique, the author runs the risk of losing a fickle and overloaded audience. By being to contrived, we lose the serious reader we'd all like to attract.

Sexual tension in an erotic story is the heart of the plot. Without that it seems to me that there is no point in reading/writing the story. I do not say this to denigrate the several quality non-erotic stories on the web cite, and there are many. And, I do agree that trying to do a revamped Will and Grace episode that happens to have sex in it won't really fly; but by the same token, are there some contrivances in some of the genres (gay and beyond) that have just left their tired mark in the road? How do we break free and create new conventions that appeal to both the experienced reader looking for innovation and the nauvice looking for a good stroke story. I think it's an important question, and as a new writer; I'd really like to hear from the experienced group.

What do you see as being done to death? Is there a way to break the mold, and if so, how?

In life and in writing, each of us is unique, and each of us experiences life (and sex) in our own unique way. If you can honestly express your unique thoughts and feelings about what you experience, then you'll have created a piece of art that no one else could have produced.

That sounds easy to do but in fact, it's terribly difficult, which is why there aren't very many great writers. First you have to develop the facility with words that allows you to describe exactly what's going on inside you, and then you have to tease apart your own true feelings about things--sex in this case--and be willing to reveal them, which most people are simply unable or unwilling to do. And you have to do it in the context of a story, in which the action in some way reflects the internal worlds of the characters.

Because it's so difficult, we tend to fall back on formula and cliche, and you see the same situations again and again. It's not the situations that are cliched and unoriginal (there are only so many ways in which a man and a woman might meet, for example), it's the way we describe and interpret them and the cliched uniformity of the characters.

Originality is no more than honesty: honesty about oneself, and about one's ideas and emotions.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm reading a fascinating book called WARTIME by Paul Fussell.

The book is a study of all the aspects of war you dont normally consider: Blunders, sex, racism, alcoholism, martinets & chickenshit, treachery back home, hubris, etc.

Wonderful character information.

 

[JackLuis]

I'm reading a fascinating book called WARTIME by Paul Fussell.

The book is a study of all the aspects of war you dont normally consider: Blunders, sex, racism, alcoholism, martinets & chickenshit, treachery back home, hubris, etc.

Wonderful character information.

Damn JBJ, I just spent two hours on the County Library catalog looking for that book. It wouldn't have taken that long really but I got side tracked on the Spanish American War, books.
I did find two of his other books in my neighborhood library, I'll go by tomorrow.

I've been shooting a 1989 Krag carbine lately, and the whole period is interesting to me.

I'll look for Wartime too.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Damn JBJ, I just spent two hours on the County Library catalog looking for that book. It wouldn't have taken that long really but I got side tracked on the Spanish American War, books.
I did find two of his other books in my neighborhood library, I'll go by tomorrow.

I've been shooting a 1989 Krag carbine lately, and the whole period is interesting to me.

I'll look for Wartime too.

I made an AMAZON order for several of Fussell's books. WARTIME is filled with insights and revelations better left concealed during wartime. Like...America's expendable people stocked its rifle companies; plug the breech with their bodies then unload the Cadillacs and silver service for the commanders and staff officers. Everyone who mattered was rear echelon. The grunt would likely be dead within a day or two, so why waste food, ammunition, and small comforts on them! Let their replacements carry the ammunition.