We've Breeched The Debt Ceiling...

[eyer]

If you remember back to August 2011 when the last debt ceiling crisis almost brought the federal government to a halt, the "solution" our lame politicians (redundant, I know) came up with was to raise the debt ceiling and legislate the Budget Control Act of 2011, which is what all the "fiscal cliff" hysteria is about now...

...anyway, the debt ceiling was raised in August 2011 to $16.394 trillion.

Today, the Secretary of the Treasury finally answered a Congressional request (which gave the Secretary a November 1 deadline to answer) and told Congress that he figures we'll hit the debt ceiling by Monday, and that he can then do some "emergency" financial wango-dango stuff to cover the shortfalls until February, maybe March...

...but here's the problem:

$16,409,155,500.00 trillion

...that's the real-time debt as I type (watch how fast the pretty numbers exponentially grow, here: http://www.usdebtclock.org/).

So, to recap:

- Congress and the President can't agree on how to address the law of the Budget Control Act of 2011 and, if they don't successfully address it, that infamous "fiscal cliff" awaits;

- the USSA is now out of money again, having spent all of the last debt ceiling raise, which means there's gotta be another idiotic repeat performance to address that grave issue;

- February and March of next year (when Treasury's hocus-pocus stops hiding the rabbit) are heavy duty months as far as the federal government paying their obligations go: one of which is the hundreds of billions due in taxpayer refunds (the federal income tax amounts individual taxpayers overpaid to the federal government)...

...if you read the linked article below, you might observe:

Mr. Geithner also said it wasn't possible to know whether the 2012 tax-filing season would be delayed.

Think about that: the federal government not allowing Americans to file their taxes because the amount the federal government must return to Americans cannot be paid...

...interest payment on the US debt is also due sometime during those months, as is payment on Social Security obligations; the point is that even with the fiscal cliff somehow detoured and the debt ceiling raised again, America will almost be out of money once more.

Economic apocalypse now, indeed...

Debt Ceiling Nears as Budget Talks Stymied
Treasury Says Borrowing Limit Will Be Reached Monday, Triggering Emergency Measures to Keep Government Operating
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323984704578203842315515834.html

 

[LiFeNdEaTh]

thanks for the update

 

[unregistered]

 

[coastal-boy]

The debt ceiling isn't about new spending. It is about making sure those that should get paid, are. For example...Vette's VA medical bills. Next time he goes to see his therapist, the Govt won't pay for it.

 

[eyer]

.....

 

[eyer]

So Eyer, what do you think they should do?

The House needs to stop the gravy train...

...and make everyone but widows and orphans get off and start walking on their own.

It would be the most compassionate thing to do...

...for such an obese and spoiled people now steadfastly headed for the entitlement grave.

There is no better treatment...

...than cold-turkey.

Hallelujah...

...and pass the potatoes, please.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Or we could raise the debt ceiling and go on about business as usual while trying to find some sort of long term fix.

 

[unregistered]

 

[eyer]

I think it's time to say no to the President. No new debt ceiling limit. All it does is allow him to continue spending beyond our ability to pay. Raising the ceiling means we have no real desire to cut spending, or to ween the world off the American taxpayer dime. It doesn't mean we can't meet our obligations but it will demand that we define exactly what those obligations are and that they are real and necessary.

If it was just the President to say no to...

...I doubt very much this discussion would be needed.

But, there're boatloads of entitlement-lovers all over this land...

...and some of the most political of them are found squarely within the Republican Party.

It's all going to go down within the next few months...

...we shall see what we shall see.

 

[Mike_Yates]

Our country will eventually become so bankrupt, that welfare and pension checks will stop and there will be riots and total chaos.

 

[unregistered]

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You're right, some of them are in the Republican Party but I suspect most of the opposition to raising that ceiling will come from that aspect of the Republican Party who aren't.

What we might need to do is to hear less about government debt, and more about government waste and assets, and see if they can be eliminated or liquidated.

You make a good point. The real issue is the value of what we get for our money. Debt for good prospects works out well. I enjoy telling my old tale about how I bought a piece of property with a garbage filled sinkhole on it. People knew I had lost my mind when I borrowed money to buy it. But it was cheap, and I sold it for a sweet profit (the buyer saw the sinkhole as a ready made pond).

 

[mercury14]

I think it's time to say no to the President. No new debt ceiling limit. All it does is allow him to continue spending beyond our ability to pay. Raising the ceiling means we have no real desire to cut spending, or to ween the world off the American taxpayer dime. It doesn't mean we can't meet our obligations but it will demand that we define exactly what those obligations are and that they are real and necessary.

The president doesn't spend, Congress does. If the debt ceiling wasn't raised Medicare, Medicaid, social security, and federal pensions would still keep spending themselves. It's not within the president's power to stop funding these things. Even if Eyer was president he wouldn't be able to stop them.

You should know this.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The debt ceiling isn't about new spending. It is about making sure those that should get paid, are. For example...Vette's VA medical bills. Next time he goes to see his therapist, the Govt won't pay for it.

"We know that the number of government jobs has been increasing steadily, and that the number of applicants is increasing still more rapidly than the number of jobs. … Is this scourge about to come to an end? How can we believe it, when we see that public opinion itself wants to have everything done by that fictitious being, the state, which signifies a collection of salaried bureaucrats? … Very soon there will be two or three of these bureaucrats around every Frenchman, one to prevent him from working too much, another to give him an education, a third to furnish him credit, a fourth to interfere with his business transactions, etc., etc. Where will we be led by the illusion that impels us to believe that the state is a person who has an inexhaustible fortune independent of ours?
Frédéric Bastiat

What class does not solicit the favors of the state? It would seem as if the principle of life resided in it. Aside from the innumerable horde of its own agents, agriculture, manufacturing, commerce, the arts, the theatre, the colonies, and the shipping industry expect everything from it. They want it to clear and irrigate land, to colonize, to teach, and even to amuse. Each begs a bounty, a subsidy, an incentive, and especially the gratuitous gift of certain services, such as education and credit. And why not ask the state for the gratuitous gift of all services? Why not require the state to provide all the citizens with food, drink, clothing, and shelter free of charge?
Frédéric Bastiat

... under the name of the state the citizens taken collectively are considered as a real being, having its own life, its own wealth, independently of the lives and the wealth of the citizens themselves; and then each addresses this fictitious being, some to obtain from it education, others employment, others credit, others food, etc., etc. Now the state can give nothing to the citizens that it has not first taken from them.
Frédéric Bastiat

When the government gets powerful enough to fight over, the people will fight over it, and to the victors go the spoils, thus setting up the next fight.
A_J, the Stupid

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

You're right, some of them are in the Republican Party but I suspect most of the opposition to raising that ceiling will come from that aspect of the Republican Party who aren't.

What we might need to do is to hear less about government debt, and more about government waste and assets, and see if they can be eliminated or liquidated.

Return the West to the states and save the money...

 

[mercury14]

"We know that the number of government jobs has been increasing steadily, and

The number of government jobs is far lower than a decade ago. I typically don't read your blue shit but if this is the stuff you're been reading no wonder you've gone bat shit crazy over the past few months.

 

[Liar]

Congress: "Hey executive branch, here's what we've decided you should spend, tax and borrow."

POTUS: "Ok, I'll go ahead and do that."

Congress: "No."


Any questions?

 

[mercury14]

Congress: "Hey executive branch, here's what we've decided you should spend, tax and borrow."

POTUS: "Ok, I'll go ahead and do that."

Congress: "No."


Any questions?

Vette has always thought that Obama has the power to spend without congress' approval. I've linked him to the (Republican) congressional budget for things like the HSA and EPA but he ignored them and continued to insist Obama has the power of the purse no matter what.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Dude! Lay off the purple sticky punch.
It will rot your brain.​

 

[BotanyBoy]

The debt ceiling isn't about new spending. It is about making sure those that should get paid, are. For example...Vette's VA medical bills. Next time he goes to see his therapist, the Govt won't pay for it.

Man that is such a tiny portion of it....a rather small portion of our spending get's back to the public, most of it winds up in some contractors pocket.

The real crisis/scare is the corporate welfare being funneled through our defense/healthcare budgets will run out and then what is the shit ticket factory going to do with out that 50$/roll gubbmint contract for the Army? or 50 million dollars to develop light bulbs with technology we already have for GE, or the meds marked up 1000% and billed to the gov for Pfizer, million dollar vegas parties, 10,000$ park benches etc etc...the list of bullshit is a mile long and we all know it but no one want's the party to end.

So mr. Shit ticket factory owner get's up there and screams about what a crisis we are in and if anyone ever wants shit tickets again we better hock up bazzilions to save his to big to fail shit ticket company and everyone goes "OK!!" .

I say raise it to 20 T and go out with a fucking bang...

 

[unregistered]

 

[phrodeau]

You can file your taxes any time you choose. You can make estimated payments if you want to be early, or you can ask for extensions if you want to be late.

If you're worried about your refund, you shouldn't have overpaid in the first place.

 

[PoppingTom]

Our country will eventually become so bankrupt, that welfare and pension checks will stop and there will be riots and total chaos.

No, there won't.

Who needs welfare or pension checks?

Only people who cease to take responsibility of their very own life. You tell them that, and they'll be quiet.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Man that is such a tiny portion of it....a rather small portion of our spending get's back to the public, most of it winds up in some contractors pocket.

The real crisis/scare is the corporate welfare being funneled through our defense/healthcare budgets will run out and then what is the shit ticket factory going to do with out that 50$/roll gubbmint contract for the Army? or 50 million dollars to develop light bulbs with technology we already have for GE, or the meds marked up 1000% and billed to the gov for Pfizer, million dollar vegas parties, 10,000$ park benches etc etc...the list of bullshit is a mile long and we all know it but no one want's the party to end.

So mr. Shit ticket factory owner get's up there and screams about what a crisis we are in and if anyone ever wants shit tickets again we better hock up bazzilions to save his to big to fail shit ticket company and everyone goes "OK!!" .

I say raise it to 20 T and go out with a fucking bang...

From what I see what we have is an entrenched oligarchy of career pols and mega-corporations that control the economy. Its like the old Soviet Union.

 

[mercury14]

Don't lie, the Democrats themselves posited the idea that he could on his own authority borrow money, though the Constitution says different. They brought this up the last time the debt ceiling was an issue. Ya big wind bag.

Tell me what I lied about.

And you're confused again, badly. The idea (which has gone nowhere and is therefore irrelevant) of the president raising the debt ceiling has nothing to do with how much money is borrowed. Your American Express card might have a 10k limit or a 20k one but it doesn't change how much you decide to buy.