Were the german people evil

[sexy-girl]

i know this is a difficult topic and i don't have any prejudice against any german here at lit or in fact any german person

but this post is following a discussion my girlfriend and my sister and i had after watching band of brothers the other week


i was basically saying that in my opinion nazism didn't just happen because hitler was evil but the german people also have to accept responsibility for what happened and in a sense they were evil too (i know that sounds a terrible thing to say but listen)


i don't believe the german people were evil because they were german ... they were evil because they were human beings ... germany was a rising nation and hitler rode the wave of nationalism and the german people got caught up in the nationalism which caused them to ignore the evil that was happening in their country

again i will say i don't think this happened in germany because they were german ... it could of happened in any country in the world and it still could ... every country and every human being has the potential for what happened in germany to happen again and i think that's what we should learn from it ... it wans't just one mad man

hitler might not of even been the cause of it but simply a byproduct


i would say i think the german people deserve amazing credit for turning their country around and have accepted their part in what happened with amazing grace and determination to never let it happen again

 

[Guest]

 

[Fly_On_Wall]

sexy-girl

a person is smart,
people are stupid.

there leader was doing it and saying it was right therfore the people fallowed believeing there would be no repocoustion (sp) against them

think if the law made it legal to kill your neighbour..... would you not? many people would..... especialy if they had 40 people backing them so no worries right?

 

[lavender]

This is a wonderful topic sexy-girl, and one I have studied quite a bit. There is a wonderful topic that discusses the men in the German army called Ordinary Men. It examines how an everyday Joe could turn into a man that was part of the military in Germany that committed such atrocious crimes.

Check it out, you might find it an interesting read.

 

[lavender]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...9821439/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/104-9197497-2801519

"Shocking as it is, this book--a crucial source of original research used for the bestseller Hitler's Willing Executioners--gives evidence to suggest the opposite conclusion: that the sad-sack German draftees who perpetrated much of the Holocaust were not expressing some uniquely Germanic evil, but that they were average men comparable to the run of humanity, twisted by historical forces into inhuman shapes. Browning, a thorough historian who lets no one off the moral hook nor fails to weigh any contributing factor--cowardice, ideological indoctrination, loyalty to the battalion, and reluctance to force the others to bear more than their share of what each viewed as an excruciating duty--interviewed hundreds of the killers, who simply could not explain how they had sunken into savagery under Hitler. A good book to read along with Ron Rosenbaum's comparably excellent study Explaining Hitler. --Tim Appelo


-- New York Times Book Review
"Helps us understand, better than we did before, not only what they did to make the Holocaust happen but also how they were transformed psychologically from the ordinary men of [the] title into active participants in the most monstrous crime in human history.""

There is also the book Hitler's Willing Executioners.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...gy_img_2/104-9197497-2801519?v=glance&s=books

Both of these books discuss similar theories.

 

[Guest]

 

[Spinaroonie]

This is a wonderful topic sexy-girl, and one I have studied quite a bit. There is a wonderful topic that discusses the men in the German army called Ordinary Men. It examines how an everyday Joe could turn into a man that was part of the military in Germany that committed such atrocious crimes.

Check it out, you might find it an interesting read.

The removal of blame does it well.

If only I could remember the name of the expiriment in which you have a person being quizzed and a person supposed to give them an electrical shock every time they're wrong. The person misses more and more questions and eventually starts screaming in pain... and then gives no response at all.

 

[sexy-girl]

thanks i know its a difficult topic to discuss ... and i don't agree the german people just turned away from the nationalism because they lost ... i think the whole country was suffering from a sort of power mad hysteria of nationalism ... when they lost the war i think it forced them as a whole to revaluate and i think they truly regretted what nazism did and their part in it


fly i don't know enough about the subject to say if hitler was a byproduct of german nationalism or if he was the cause of much of it


thanks lavender i will look out for it ... although i wasn't just talking about the german army but also the normal citizens but i would like to read that

i know band of brothers is just fiction based on fact but in this episode it was when the US soldiers found a concentration camp and they questioned the german people from a village nearby to the camp when they said they didn't know about it ... im not sure how true that actual scene is but at the very least its a metaphor of what was happening across the whole country with the mass genocide of not only jews but many other people

of course not everyone knew what was going on in their country when the war was going on or the scale of what was happening but they must of had an idea

 

[Guest]

 

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[sexy-girl]

also, I dont think 'manipulation' was used
that gets them off the hook, as if they werent at fault, except for being stupid

Hitler brought out what was already within them, redirected it.

lavender i think i've actually heard of that book or one about the same subject ... i would have to be in the right mood to read it but i will look for it thanks ... i feel i should read at least one book along those lines


and 4later i agree with you there and that something that was brought out in them is also in every other human being

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

I don't think you can discuss this without proper historical context, taking things like the Treaty of Versailles, communism, and institutionalized anti-semitism into account. The Germans were not just contemporay citizens riding a wave of nationalism, and I don't think a Hitler could have arisen anywhere people were waving flags, and I don't think the German people were evil.

 

[Guest]

 

[Lost Cause]

Hitler only wanted what the EU will achieve.

That'll fire up some people!
Actually a good movie is "Cross of Iron" with James Coburn, and James Mason. It's a story about the German soldier on the Eastern Front that reminds me of "Platoon".
Having relatives that served in the Waffen SS 'Nord' Division, I really think anything I say will be twisted around, and used against me.

*Why isn't there a thread that asks, "Were the Japanese people evil?"

It goes back to that hollywood stereotype, "Vee Haf Veys Ov Makint You Tauk" bullshit.

 

[sexy-girl]

I don't think you can discuss this without proper historical context, taking things like the Treaty of Versailles, communism, and institutionalized anti-semitism into account. The Germans were not just contemporay citizens riding a wave of nationalism, and I don't think a Hitler could have arisen anywhere people were waving flags, and I don't think the German people were evil.

theres a huge difference between nationalism and patriotism

but i admit i don't know enough about this subject to make a huge judgement ... which is why i said this thread came from a discussion ... im hoping to learn more and also research more myself

but i do agree that a lot of the nationalism was sparked by the treaty of versailles but regardless that nationalism did turn into attempted genocide


edited to say lost cause i do think there is just as much prejudice against the japanese then against germans because of the war (and i don't think either is right) ... but i guess i made this thread about germany because its more relevant to me and the mass attempted genocide by the nazi germans

 

[lavender]

Dixon is absolutely right.

(don't you love hearing that? )

 

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[sexy-girl]

sexy, dont think anti semitism was in every other human being

i think the potential to hate a group of people that are different from you is in every human being


i have a question for dixon ... are you saying the german people weren't evil because of the historic conditions that were creating pressure on their country at the time

or just they weren't evil because they weren't responsible for nazism and what nazism did

 

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[sexy-girl]

yes, but the potential to contribute tothe death of 6 million innocent jews, commies, gyppos and disabled was inherent in the germans

its ensconced in their culture

its brewing again

the head of the jew council there, Michel Friedmann has been the subject of a witch hunt by the more right wing govts there

ok im not sure if you're just trying to provoke now or if you truly feel that way

but england has the BNP just about every country in europe is having a rise in popularity of far right groups ... and also there is plenty of everyday people that would gladly stop all immigration into england


those two things aren't all together that far away from genocide

 

[Guest]

The Germans are evil.

The favourite car of choise by the serial killers used be Volkswagon Beetle. Nowadays, it's Volkswagon Van.

 

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