Well, though it might do so, I'm not trying to stir up shit with this question.

[JazzManJim]

I was involved in a thread earlier today that got me to doing some thinking.

Here's my situation.

I'm a Christian. I have very definite beliefs. I have no qualms at all sharing those beliefs with others. I do it often and I very much enjoy it. Not only that, I think it's important that I do so.

I don't push where I'm not wanted. I don't begrudge anyone the right to believe whatever they wish. My own belief system says, by definition, that if someone doesn't believe the doctrines I do, then they're wrong. I don't get pushy about that either. In fact, I don't often use the word "wrong" when I talk religion, unless asked to do so.

So why is it that I'm the bastard int he discussion when it happens. No, I don't hold an all-inclusive religious belief. I'm not likely to do so. But don't I have the right to do that without being considered a bad person? Do people who would bash me for that while preaching their own version of inclusiveness indulge in a bit of hyprocrisy when that happens? Why does it seem more acceptable to have an open, free-for-all type of belief system where every belief is valid as opposed to one with more rigid paths? Don't we have room in this world for every belief, even if you don't buy that belief?

Now, mind you, I'm not talking the general stereotype of "Christian". We're talking the brand of religion to which I, and a few others here on the boards subscribe.

 

[p_p_man]

So why is it that I'm the bastard in the discussion when it happens.

Now, mind you, I'm not talking the general stereotype of "Christian". We're talking the brand of religion to which I, and a few others here on the boards subscribe.

Can't really say why unless it's something to do with your particular brand of religion...

 

[Guest]

 

[Drifter014]

I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion and own beliefs. I am not a very religious person, but do have my opinions on the subject both good and bad, and like you i would talk about them to people, but never force anyone to listen.

I think the reason people get harassed about their religion is the simple fact that it is pushed in your face every where you go. For instance where i live we have people come to our door every other saturday morning, and almost break the door down to preach to me about their believes.

But when i try to talk to them about my believes, they don't seem to have the time to listen.

Not sure if this was on topic or not, just felt like saying my piece...*L*

 

[scylis]

hey, as long as you don't go around and beat people who don't believe the same as you do over the head with a mitter, then that's your bag, man.

just no inquisitions! you'll be sacked if you do, then replaced by a Equadorian Jumping Llama.

 

[JazzManJim]

Jazzy,

I don't share your religious beliefs. We'll agree to disagree on those, because you have your right to believe what you like, and so do I. It doesn't stop us from being friends, doesn't stop us from agreeing or disagreeing on other matters. That's just my opinion, for what it's worth

See....that's the good kind of thing I think should be happening!

Damn I knew I liked you, foxy, for more than your wit, youre cute buns, and your infectious smile.

 

[JazzManJim]

hey, as long as you don't go around and beat people who don't believe the same as you do over the head with a mitter, then that's your bag, man.

just no inquisitions! you'll be sacked if you do, then replaced by a Equadorian Jumping Llama.

No worries, mate. That's the Catholics. I'm Baptist. The worst we give you is the occasional Televangelist.

Ugh..on second thought...never mind. Cue the Llama!

 

[Lost Cause]

As long as your religion doesn't sanction suicide bombing, hyjacking, or other types of terrorism, I'm okay with it.
However, if your religion does, then I believe God can manifest himself as a hydrogen fireball in your respective area of operations!

 

[scylis]

*sacks JazzManJim*

 

[Guest]

 

[JennyOmanHill]

See....that's the good kind of thing I think should be happening!

Damn I knew I liked you, foxy, for more than your wit, youre cute buns, and your infectious smile.

Just wanted to note that I agree with Foxy!

(Don't worry, Jim. No need to remark about my buns!)

 

[TN_Vixen]

Personally I don't think Christianity

or being a member of any type of religious persuasion should be detrimental in you having a relationship with anyone. Religion is strictly personal experience.. the interaction between you and whatever spirit you may have a connection with has nothing whatsoever to do with your partner in life. Of course, it would be nice to hook up with someone who shares your specific belief, but it isn't mandatory, not in my book.

The worst mistake anyone can make is to push their beliefs on another person. That will get you nowhere. Religion is intensely personal, it is between that specific person and their chosen spirit to worship. Leave it at that and focus more upon the loving relationship you have with that flesh 'n blood person in your life.

 

[JazzManJim]

Flattery will get you absolutely *everywhere* with me. And probably some places you've never been before, too.

I'm willing to take that trip. I'm already packed!

And foxy, you know I dig you.

Jenny...you have cute buns, too, so I've heard...

 

[JazzManJim]

*sacks JazzManJim*

Sorry, man..it was either admit to Televangelists or start an Inquisition. I chose the lesser of the two evils.

 

[Thumper]

JMJ

Just wanted to let you know that I do not consider you a bastard when it comes to religion threads. I respect your beliefs. In Dixon's thread I was merely attempting to address the reason it why it may seem that Christianity gets picked on so much. If it came off as a personal slight I apologize. I have never seen any example of you browbeating anyone with your beliefs. My thoughts were concerned with the more nefarious members of the Christian faith. The Swaggarts, Bakers, Falwells and Robertsons.

 

[JazzManJim]

Re: JMJ

Thumper, you're tres cool with me. I didn't take any offense in anything you've said at all.

In fact, I have lots of problems with the folks you've mentioned. I believe that they've forgotten the two things a church should be doing and have gotten themselves off on tangents that only hurt the cause badly.

There's another good point you skirted around in the other thread, though. A lot of us "Christians" (I have to use the generic phrase, because anything else is kind of unweildy) walk a very fine line. We want to make sure that our loved ones and friends get into Heaven, and that involves sharing our beliefs as often as practical. On the other hand, we run the risk of offending and turning them farther away (as has happened with a lot of folks who post here, in their own words). There's a very delicate middle ground between the fear that we honestly have that our nearest and dearest are going to be eternally damned and the need to be able to communicate with them. I'm not sure how most of us resolve it, except to do what we're able and understand that, as much as it may worry us sometimes, each person makes their own choice.

But I do understand the fear that a lot of family members have that makes them overzealous and overbearing. It's not easy at all to deal with sometimes.

 

[JennyOmanHill]

...
Jenny...you have cute buns, too, so I've heard...

That's nice to hear!

 

[freescorfr]

What book are you reading in your AV Jazz man?
The baptists were great reformers in their time. I love reformations.

 

[VanB]

Jazzy,

Religious beliefs are a personal choice and I'm very easy going about what other people believe and it can lead to very stimulating conversation. The only caveat is that when discussing those beliefs it's fine to try to convince someone of your perspective but not to impose your beliefs - therein lies a cause for conflict a la Moslem/Christian thing.

In short you can't be a bastard for trying to convince someone that your beliefs are correct and I admire you for having an unshakeable faith.

VanB

 

[scylis]

Sorry, man..it was either admit to Televangelists or start an Inquisition. I chose the lesser of the two evils.

you call that the LESSER of two evils?

 

[Andreina]

Jazzy,

I'm Christian. I'm Catholic. Sort of.
Okay, my parents sent me to a catholic primary school in a convent. Guess who hated it there? Guess who fell asleep during the mass ever so often? Moi.
Everybody is entitled to their own belief. IMHO there will always be clashes between monodeisitc religions (of course betwen polydeistic ones as well). No religion is entirely bad - it is what you make out of your religion that matters. I don't practise mine - I only send occasional prayers up to da old man when I have an essay due or when I have an exams.
I don't believe in God anymore since my 2 uncles suddenly died. I know they say that the ways of God are wicked (or something like that) but well... I lost a big part of my faith.

Halo

P.S.: I think the Vatican sucks but that is just once again my own humble opinion.

 

[SilverVeil]

As the world grows older, I have found that more and more people have lost sight of what belief really is.
I personally am Wiccan. My hunny is lapsed Catholic. ( Ain't that a mix ?!? )

To be reminded of what faith and belief is .... look at the face of a child who still believes in Santa Clause on Christmas Day. Look at a child who has skinned a knee and still has faith that Mommies kiss can really " make it better " .

Why is it as we grow older, we lose the innocence of faith and belief ? And when we find that faith and belief, we hold onto it so dearly, that any person with a conflicting view from ours must be attacked until they doubt what faith they have found and come around to the so called " RIGHT " way of thinking. Meaning .... the same view as ours.

Those people who feel the need to attack a difference of faith are those I feel sorry for. Wanting to share your belief with me is one thing .... and I welcome talking with people about different beliefs. Yet often times it comes around to finger shaking and the old ... " If you do not change your view and belief to the same as mine, then you are going to burn in hell for eternity. "

* sigh * I have yet to say that to anyone who follows a different path than I do. It is not my place to erode what peace and happiness a person has found in what they hold dear to them. That is the job of what ever loving power they have found that brings them peace and joy in their lives.

And it is not just Christians. It is most " organized " faiths. I have studied the bible. And most organized faiths I have had contact with have tons more intolerance then anything I can find in the bible.

That is what it boils down to mostly. The lack of tolerance. (sp? it's late and I am sleepy. )

Believe in what brings you peace and happiness in life. Yet ... most faiths I am familiar with hold one thing in common. And that is " Do no harm, and do unto others as you would have done to you. " ( OK that's 2 things picky picky. )

Bah .... I have rambled enuff. This is just my opinion. And like most opinions, I could be wrong.

 

[MysticSwing]

I'm Wiccan as well.... I may not agree with the ways of organized religions, but at the same time I don't feel that my religion is for everyone either. I truly believe we all must find our own way to Deity.

Like SilverVeil, I have also gotten the "If you do not change your view and belief to the same as mine, then you are going to burn in hell for eternity." on many occasions!

I lead a decent life. I practice the brotherhood of man. I'm good to my fellow man, the animals and the earth. I don't purposely harm or hurt others. Why would an all loving God punish me for that? Just doesn't make much sense to me.

We all have a right to our beliefs. You yours, and me mine... If you believe strongly in your belief, that's wonderful. I know I believe strongly in mine. I don't run around trying to "convert" anyone, but I am more than willing to share my beliefs with anyone who asks. Like I said, I truly believe we must all find our own way to Deity.

I found this little saying several years ago and it's always stuck with me..

Gay, Straight, Black, White,
Same Struggle Same Fight!
Christian, Muslim, Pagan, Jew,
There is just one world for me and you!

I have to agree with SilverVeil, I think it all comes down to a lack of tolerance.

~~Mystic

 

[LukkyKnight]

With apologies to those who abhor cut-n-paste

The words of Bertrand Russell:

"Religions that teach brotherly love have been used as an excuse for persecution, and our profoundest scientific insight is made into a means of mass destruction."

Originally observed by Wendell Phillips:

"Difference of religion breeds more quarrels than difference of politics."

from Nelson Mandela's Long Walk to Freedom (1994)

"No one is born hating another person because of the colour of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite."

The insight of Frederick II:

"All religions must be tolerated...for...every man must get to heaven in his own way."

 

[Calamity Jane]

The insight of Frederick II:
"All religions must be tolerated...for...every man must get to heaven in his own way."

That's pretty much my belief too. We're all on the same journey, more or less. But, we have to choose our own path to get there.

Some of us by the 'direct route' and others by forging our own little path through the wilds. No one's route is more valid or 'right' than anyone elses. Of course, we all think we've chosen the best way, that's human nature.

Jimmy, I don't think you're a bastard, and I hope you know that. I'd love to sit down with you and banter about beliefs for hours. I totally respect not only your right to believe as you do, but the faith that I can 'hear' in your posts.

Some people are always going to have problems with you because of your chosen path. If that's the one thing that keeps them from getting to know you, it's their loss.

I know that you believe I'm most likely going to hell for my beliefs. I respect the teachings that have led you to that belief. All I ask is that my contention that hell doesn't even exist, and that death is nothing but one more step on my journey also be respected. Should be easy, right?