Well, the local 'Net predator is filing the first of his death penalty appeals

[alexandraaah]

This is where it gets fuzzy. If my kid is throwing a temper tantrum at the grocery store and I spank her hiney, and someone has a video camera handy, you can bet that there will be a ton of people calling for my head.

Of course. We're splitting hairs right now and losing the main focus, but I see your point and agree.

I did, however, state "raising your hand in ANGER to your child," but I agree not everyone is able to discern the difference, nor should they.

There are trained professionals that I'm confident know abuse when they see it.

 

[sunstruck]

I agree Alex. I think we need major reforms in both child welfare and education and I think we as a nation need to revaluate family values and what they mean.

We're not Leave it to Beaver Land anymore (we never were and thank God for both) but we need to do something about the deterioation of the American family.

 

[modest mouse]

This is a bizarre hijack about beating children.

 

[RawHumor]

we need to do something about the deterioation of the American family.

That's a MUCH larger issue, but I agree. Women need to stop having babies to try to "trap" a man or to feel loved. Men need to stop spraying sperm like they're marking their territory.

People need to realize that, if you have a child, you also have a responsibility, whether you like the other person responsible for that child or not.

They also need to realize that, while unprotected sex can be great, "because I don't want to wear a condom this time" is not an excuse to risk bringing another unloved child into this world.

 

[Mischka]

Women need to stop having babies to try to "trap" a man or to feel loved. Men need to stop spraying sperm like they're marking their territory.

Need to? Sure. Going to? Not a chance.

 

[sunstruck]

This is a bizarre hijack about beating children.

That was kind of my point. It's not TOTALLY off topic, but it's still not the original focus.

I'm trying something new, staying on the topic. lol

 

[weed]

valid and fair point. However are we then to forgive said person because society failed him? Society fails many of us in many ways but the vast majority manage to muddle through relatively sane.

I don't look at this as a question of forgiveness but how to fairly administer justice.

Society's failings can be so great on one person that person is permanently damaged.

Certainly not their fault and if there were hope of rehabilitation or even simple life in prison I would say that's the way to go. Unfortunately there are those like this fellow who seem hopelessly criminal.

I see that as an incurable, painful and dehibilitating disease and would vote for euthanasia.

If there were any guarantees it could be fairly and cost-effectively carried out, that is.

 

[bluespoke]

There are, on this planet, many truly evil people.

Some have killed many, some only one, some not at all - yet.

There are no countries where murder is legal ( and please don't bring state terrorism into this).

It is my belief that the death penalty IS vengeance not justice and that if an individual is not permitted to murder then neither should the state.

In addition, capital punishment is the easy way out. If you wish to punish then you exclude them from society for good by imprisoning for life.

In the USA it is cheaper to keep them in prison for life than to go through all the appeal procedures for death row.

Just my opinion.

 

[Killswitch]

I should probably keep my mouth shut......

But that has never been one of my forte's.

I am staunchly against the death penalty. I think Killng someone is wrong. We can argue the Homocide/ Murder symantics question if you want, but I dont think thats the point.

Killing some one is wrong.

I believe that we should be able to impose "Hard Labor" imprisonment like we used to be able to do before the A.C.L.U got involved.

I find it unusual that we can Kill a prisoner..(isnt that cruel?) but we can not have him break big stones into little stones for 18 hours a day for the rest of his life.

I also agree with the earlier poster, that these kind of guys usually get killed in prison. If that would be the case so be it. But.....as a society we have decided that killing is a crime.

Lets not forget the Ten Commandments....Or are they now The Ten Suggestions?

But we as a society have also waffled on this issue to suit our own political, religious, and idealistic ends.....

I.E....Stem cell research could save life....They say we cant do it.
Assisted suicide is Humane in most cases....Cant do that.
Murdering my family is illegal.
Murdering the guy who did it is not.

Interesting........

Good Morning everyone............

Killswitch

 

[KillerMuffin]

Taking on the assumption that this person is the real-deal rather than dismissing it, here's an interesting perspective on the death penalty aspects of this case:

http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?threadid=22605

Reading the thread this came from in its entirety is fascinating.

Words from a juror

As a juror in this trial, I heard all the evidence first-hand. This was a no-win situation for everyone. Although many people believed the evidence to be overwhelming and wondered why it took the jury so long to reach its verdict, we took our job very seriously, taking the time to discuss every count, the witnesses and re-review the evidence. We felt we owed this to the victims, their families and even the defendant.

When deciding on life in prison or death, the cost of each was never, and should never have been, an issue. The defense painted him as a short, slightly pudgy, 58-year-old man. What harm could he do if given life? John Robinson is very intelligent, sinister, sly, manipulative, a liar, a forger, and probably very charismatic. Which makes him all the more dangerous. He had forged two letters when he was in prison before in an attempt to obtain an early parole.

No, killing John Robinson will not bring back those women. But his life certainly isn't worth more than the lives of 6 women and a baby. A juror made the analogy between a mole being put on earth to burrow underground in search of grub worms. That's what they do. God did not put John Robinson on this earth to murder women.

 

[weed]

Good comment, Killswitch.

While I do believe there are a few instances where death may seem to be the most deserved and fair consequences for the criminally insane, it is very few and I would much prefer to see them put to work.

I recently read something about increased troubles in prisons because of exceassive idle time now that many "rehab" programs have been discontinued.

The best rehabilitation is hard work. Let's see them buff up diggin with a shovel or fill their days making license plates.

 

[alexandraaah]

This is a bizarre hijack about beating children.

Not really.

When looking at deviant behavior and the consequences thereof, one's background is usually inspected and determined. Serial killers and other offenders of heinous crimes are more likely to have suffered ongoing abuse of all sorts.

Without such knowledge, it would be impossible to determine how to intervene and avoid having such sickening things happen in the future.

 

[weed]

Looking at it that way, you're right, Alexandraah.

Intervention geared at period of pregnancy and early parenthood to provide education and support.

In some cases, require it as a provision of being a parent with foster care as the other option. Painful but true. And also another practice that is only as good as it's administration when the well-being of the child can be at question in some foster care scenarios.

Meanwhile, there will always be those few whose brain chemistry, hereditary dispositions and experiences lead them to menacing society.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

continuing with the hijack

I'm not suggesting that anyone spy on people in their homes. Deviant behavior is identifiable at very early ages, as are signs of abuse, which is a leading factor in growing up to be a violent adult.

I agree it's a tricky situation. One misleading hotline call can ruin a child's life where it was meant to help.

I won't come into your home to see if you're a good parent, but if I see you raise a hand in anger to your child on the street, you can bet your ass I'll call child protective services.

I don't suggest everyone run around playing cop, but as a social worker, I'm a mandated reporter.

I dunno, the whole thing sucks ass.

OK, I understand what you're saying, but, and keep in mind I am not condoning this behaivor, it seems "back in the day" kids were beaten on a regular basis. Yet mass murders carried out by a singular sicko are just not part of the worlds history.
Could it possibly more the systematic destruction of the family base due in large part to the pressures the "modern" world puts on the parents? Given our "keep up with the Jones's" mentality, the childrens parents are out of the home at an alarming percentage. It would seem to me these issues started rearing their ugly heads just a couple of generations ago. Comments, questions, complaints?

 

[Mischka]

Re: continuing with the hijack

Yet mass murders carried out by a singular sicko are just not part of the worlds history.

] I'm not sure this is true. Communication has improved dramatically in the past century. I bet there were mass/serial murderers all throughout history, but their infamy was stifled by a lack of widespread knowledge of their deeds. I just recently learned of the Canadian woman who in the last century killed over 20 people and fed them to her pigs. How many others have simply been forgotten by time and circumstance?

Most sociopaths have genetic predispositions. They are not a recent phenomena.

 

[zipman]

I believe that blaming the behavior of serial killers and psychopaths on the parenting they received is a cop-out. Sure some of them suffered from early abuse, but how many times have we seen some poor mother talking about how she had no clue that her "child" could ever do something so horrible.

I believe there are physiological reasons for psychotic behavior, that may be triggered by abuse. The mind is an incredibly complex organ, that medical science has only recently begun to understand. There remains a tremendous amount of "undiscovered territory" when it comes to how people think the way they do and why they act the way they do.

 

[Guest]

Lock him up until the advance of medical science can cut his frontal cortex in a way as to cure his sick mind, like.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Bumpies for the evening shift.

 

[Freya]

Doesn't the fact that this man raised, what by all acounts is, a very well rounded, healthy family, put a kink in the argument that he might have been scarred terribly by his childhood? Most times, those types of people, that end up becoming serial killers, are incapable of having "normal" relations with others - ie: spouses, children, friends etc. The ones who do have these kinds of "normal" relations, are not usually the ones who have had terrible childhoods at all, but instead seem to have some wiring loose upstairs.

 

[PaganZepher]

I respect the debate on the thread. But, for me this is a "no brainer." Let him enjoy the fate of his victims. Barring that let him be executed in the manner the law allows.

 

[Mia62]

I hate to oversimplify, but he will likely be murdered in prison if he's among other inmates and not secluded.

A classic ending. I hope he feels the pain before he goes.

Freya, you are Canadian...he reminds me of Clifford Olsen, who should also be sent out to fend for himself in the rest of the prison population.

 

[Lancecastor]

I am against the death penalty.

However, for the eye-for-an-eye adherants in the audience, the upside of a life in prison for the guy is men who rape and murder women or children are the most likely to be "executed" in prison at the hands of their fellow inmates.

Because violent criminals have a heirarchy. Rapist/pedos are pieces of shit who deserve to die and copkillers are gods in that particular strata of society.

Those of you who want him dead can rest easy knowing he'll be surrounded by people who think the same way as you, every day.

And one day, they won't write about it.

They'll do it.

While he's left unguarded for a moment while being moved from one protective custody cage to another.

And if you're lucky, you'll get to see his killer on the news and hear the details.

I am against the death penalty.

Lance

 

[phrodeau]

Doesn't the fact that this man raised, what by all acounts is, a very well rounded, healthy family, put a kink in the argument that he might have been scarred terribly by his childhood? Most times, those types of people, that end up becoming serial killers, are incapable of having "normal" relations with others - ie: spouses, children, friends etc. The ones who do have these kinds of "normal" relations, are not usually the ones who have had terrible childhoods at all, but instead seem to have some wiring loose upstairs.

Not at all. It just means he's a "two-faced" killer. He might be fully conscious of his double life, or he might be schizophrenic. Either could be symptomatic of childhood trauma.

 

[SINthysist]

That's not near as bad as Robert Courtney, who stood in court and confessed to diluting cancer drugs, for greed, sending people to their deaths...

His attorney is appealing also!

Go figure.

 

[SINthysist]

And you know the Hate Crimes of the Carr brothers of Wichita will be appealed on the basis of racism...