Well, the local 'Net predator is filing the first of his death penalty appeals

[KillerMuffin]

Warning: This is an emotionally charged thread. If you don't like emotionally charged threads authored by KillerMuffin, back click. Otherwise, any snide remarks about my propensity to start emotionally charged threads will be met with the laughter and derision such things deserve. You do not enter here unwarned.


I think this is a sad thing all around, no matter how you look at it.

First, who is he?

His name is John Robinson Sr. He was convicted of and sentenced to death for murdering several woman and stuffing their bodies in 55 gallon drums and then storing them in his storage shed. He was also convicted of taking the infant daughter of one of his victims and arranging a fake adoption to his younger brother.

He's the one we all warn you about, the one out {insert huge number} that doesn't want his submissives to enjoy themselves, he wants them to die.

He was on the 'Net as "Slavemaster" though no mention of which sites he frequented. He picked up a couple of his victims that way. He picked up one of the others by dint of his position with the church.

And then he was tried and convicted. The jury sentenced him to death. The appellate process has begun by filing over 100 grounds to move for mistrial or outright acquittal. They got tons of stuff, here's a link to a couple available today:

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/4702937.htm

So I guess this is one of those horrible death~penalty questions. This is an evil man, there's no doubt about that. He preyed on women in ways that are outright revolting. And he murdered them. So now, a predator is on death row, a predator with children, grandchildren, and a family that still loves him. Do we, the state, have a right to take his life as punishment for what he's done to the three women he tortured to death, then stuffed into barrels to leave rot? What of the woman who escaped him before he could kill her? Or the baby he gave to his brother?

What's right? Do we kill the guy or leave him locked up for life?

This is what one man thinks:

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/columnists/mike_hendricks/4415908.htm

I'm not sure what I think. I think he seriously needs to die, but I'm not sure we have that right. After all, two wrongs don't make things right. The victims will not be alive after he's put down. In jail he--theoretically--can't kill the women he may prey on in the future. The cost is argumentative (and not really something to consider when discussing ethics). Right or wrong? Justice or vengence? Do we put him down like a mad dog or do we remember that no matter what he's done, he's still a human being?

 

[RawHumor]

It is my opinion that, once (it has been posively proven that) you become such a menace to society that your very existence threatens people's well-being, then the death penalty is a good option.

With serial rapists and serial murderers (or in this case, both), I really don't feel bad about that lethal injection. The life you save may be your daughter's.

 

[alexandraaah]

I waffle on the capital punishment issue; my emotional side leans toward "fry the bastard" and my practical side is against it.

I hate to oversimplify, but he will likely be murdered in prison if he's among other inmates and not secluded.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

The death penalty is vengance, not justice. With that said, I agree with vengance in this case. Sometimes there are people simply not deserving to live.

 

[hotlittlegirlwv]

I don't know the right answer, KM. I tend to believe that he didn't give his victims the choice or right to live, so why should he have the right to live? I guess it's vindictive, but I always tend to sympathize with the family of the victims. I would want the bastard to die if he'd done it to someone I love. *shrugs* May not be the right answer, but it's just how I feel.

 

[alexandraaah]

The death penalty is vengance, not justice. With that said, I agree with vengance in this case. Sometimes there are people simply not deserving to live.

Hmmm, I tend to disagree with this. At risk of sounding sympathetic to a murderer, I'd hedge a bet this world failed him in many ways.

No one would choose to live that sort of existence, if given a clear mind.

 

[sunstruck]

I can't seem to come to a diffinitive decision on the death penalty. On the one hand, they deserve to die, though isn't life in prison a worse sentence? On the other, it feels barbaric. Somthing history will look back on with a shudder.

Are we moving foreward as a society with the death penalty or backwards? Could it progress to public exectutions?

What I would like to do with the man is shove him in a small hole in the ground (for some reason I can't think of the word for this, it's French) and only let him out once a day for stretching and feeding to ensure he lives a long and miserable existance with nothing but the remembered screams of his victims for company.

But I don't suppose we can do that.

 

[DéjàNu]

a very tricky question. Beliefs, religion, personal experience would make varied the answers.
I dont think there is a good or a wrong answer anyway, you are for it or against it.

As for me, I find death the easy way out. This guy would never suffer as much he has made suffer other people. So in a way I would like for him to rot in jail, but jail today its nearly a nice place... in the other hand I would like him to be dead, not for what he has done (yes a bit of that too) but for him to never do it again... not I think he could get out but we dont know with today justice system!!!!

 

[brokenbrainwave]

Hmmm, I tend to disagree with this. At risk of sounding sympathetic to a murderer, I'd hedge a bet this world failed him in many ways.

No one would choose to live that sort of existence, if given a clear mind.

valid and fair point. However are we then to forgive said person because society failed him? Society fails many of us in many ways but the vast majority manage to muddle through relatively sane.

 

[SilverVeil]

IMHO this man and others like him are a hazard to society. I know the death penalty is the most extreme judgment that can be passed on someone, and as his crime was in the most extreme, I think the punishment in this case fits the crime. But with one point sadly lacking.... he will not be tortured and abused as his victims were. No, killing him will not bring them back to life, but why should he be housed, fed, entertained to a certain extent such as TV and the basic creature comforts at the expense of us ?

A quick, painless death is not what I would prefer for this kind of animal. Hell I am not even sure that animal is a correct term for one such as him. Creature would be better suited.

I think his death should be as terrifying and as painful as those he caused for his victims.

 

[zipman]

Hmmm, I tend to disagree with this. At risk of sounding sympathetic to a murderer, I'd hedge a bet this world failed him in many ways.

No one would choose to live that sort of existence, if given a clear mind.

Personally, I strongly disagree with this viewpoint. It absolves the individual of any sense of personal responsibility, which is becoming all too prevalent in our society. I think he failed society more than society failed him.

Too be honest, I don't think the death penalty is enough. I truly believe that it is the easy way out, and I would prefer people like that to suffer as much their victims did. Call it barbaric, but that is how I feel.

 

[KillerMuffin]

This has a decent background on the case, though the source (courttv) isn't the most sterling.

http://www.courttv.com/trials/robinson/background.html


It just boggles the mind that people would do this. I don't think most of them would choose to be serial killers given a clear ability to think, but there are some people who are just plain vicious and hateful. The only thing that brings them pleasure is hurting, manipulating, and stealing total power over others. And you can't get more power over someone else than by holding their life and death in your hands. Most of us abhor the notion, but some people can't seem to live without that rush.

I've known enough men who've gone through combat situations where they have taken life. They held that power and it revolted them. They exercised that power and it still tortures them. And then there are the few....

*sigh*

 

[Mountain Man]

Hmmm, I tend to disagree with this. At risk of sounding sympathetic to a murderer, I'd hedge a bet this world failed him in many ways.

No one would choose to live that sort of existence, if given a clear mind.

I'm sorry...i was going to try and stay out of this but this makes me upset.....

whether or not the "world failed him" makes no differnce in this case...so he may have had a hard life...whatever...millions do....but he chose...yes chose!.... to torture and kill those women. He did not plead insanity.

There are many who have hard lives and believ that the world failed them...they do not resort to killing and torture of others.

as to my feeling on the Death Peanlty in this case.....i say strap him to the table and start the injections....this is one of those cases that is taylor made for the death penalty...we know he did it...there is no reason for him to still be alive...

Yes I feel sorry for his family...but i feel more sorry for his victims families

 

[modest mouse]

As it is the 'worst' of speech that upholds teh First Amendment; its the 'worst' of criminals that test the death penalty.

He should not be put to death.

This is a good thread Killermuffin. The way you asked the questions and provided information was perfect for those who want to consider or reconsider their stance ont eh death penalty.

 

[weed]

There are a few who seem incurable, incorrigible and indecent menaces to society.

I would agree the safest thing for society would be death to them. Do they deserve it...perhaps, but that's a tougher question to decide.

The problem is not the penalty but the fair and just administration of the penalty. Once it's in place it is bound to be used in the wrong instance because of our innate human tendency to err.

We can have all the appeals processes and such in place to give the con a fair chance but this doesn't always work and we all know it's a horrible cost on the public as well as emotional cost of dragging out the case for victim's families.

 

[alexandraaah]

I'm sorry...i was going to try and stay out of this but this makes me upset.....

whether or not the "world failed him" makes no differnce in this case...so he may have had a hard life...whatever...millions do....but he chose...yes chose!.... to torture and kill those women. He did not plead insanity.

I'm not talking about merely a "hard life." I have no doubt that anyone who commits heinous acts such as this are mentally ill.

I also agree with above statements that this does NOT absolve someone of culpability.

What I do think, is on a much more global level than one incident. I think it begins with early intervention, starting in schools and social services and ending with a prison system that is one of two extremes: either such a living hell that no one in their right mind would chance ever going, or downright rehabilitative.

I have pipe dreams, yes, but this is where I see things. I agree that at this stage it's about personal responsibility, but I also know that we're not doing nearly enough to divert this kind of behavior.

 

[RawHumor]

I agree that at this stage it's about personal responsibility, but I also know that we're not doing nearly enough to divert this kind of behavior.

Outside of randomly going into people's homes and taking their children away from them until we're SURE that they are fit parents, how much can we, as a society, do? Big brother is getting bigger, and I don't really enjoy the thought of being spied on to be sure that I'm a fit parent.

 

[phrodeau]

It must be serious indeed when KillerMuffin posts in color.

Used to be that justice was served by devising punishments that fit the crime, or using torturous means (like crucifixion) to appease the bloodlust and vengeance of the general public.

Now we have more humane deaths for the criminals, and question whether even the victims should be allowed to witness them.

Bloodlust and vengeance are still a part of what we are. It's just no longer socially acceptable to cater to those instinctive responses. We've become more civilized, but we haven't evolved much.

 

[sunstruck]

What I do think, is on a much more global level than one incident. I think it begins with early intervention, starting in schools and social services and ending with a prison system that is one of two extremes: either such a living hell that no one in their right mind would chance ever going, or downright rehabilitative.

I don't disagree with this thought at all, though I'm not sure how to begin making it a true reality.

BUT I don't think it argues the topic. He already commited the crime. The question is what to do with him now.

 

[Saytur]

WTF?

Execute him...

 

[alexandraaah]

Outside of randomly going into people's homes and taking their children away from them until we're SURE that they are fit parents, how much can we, as a society, do? Big brother is getting bigger, and I don't really enjoy the thought of being spied on to be sure that I'm a fit parent.

I'm not suggesting that anyone spy on people in their homes. Deviant behavior is identifiable at very early ages, as are signs of abuse, which is a leading factor in growing up to be a violent adult.

I agree it's a tricky situation. One misleading hotline call can ruin a child's life where it was meant to help.

I won't come into your home to see if you're a good parent, but if I see you raise a hand in anger to your child on the street, you can bet your ass I'll call child protective services.

I don't suggest everyone run around playing cop, but as a social worker, I'm a mandated reporter.

I dunno, the whole thing sucks ass.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Bloodlust and vengeance are still a part of what we are. It's just no longer socially acceptable to cater to those instinctive responses. We've become more civilized, but we haven't evolved much.

That's about the truest thing I've heard all week. We certainly haven't evolved much. We're still hanging out startling close to the animal instincts that kept us alive when survival dominated daily living.

 

[RawHumor]

I won't come into your home to see if you're a good parent, but if I see you raise a hand in anger to your child on the street, you can bet your ass I'll call child protective services.

This is where it gets fuzzy. If my kid is throwing a temper tantrum at the grocery store and I spank her hiney, and someone has a video camera handy, you can bet that there will be a ton of people calling for my head.

 

[alexandraaah]

I don't disagree with this thought at all, though I'm not sure how to begin making it a true reality.

BUT I don't think it argues the topic. He already commited the crime. The question is what to do with him now.

This is exactly what's wrong with our system right now.

The damage has been done, so how do we pick up the pieces NOW?

Yes, that's the current reality, but when the hell are we going to learn that we need to change our penal system and implement early intervention and mandate repeat juvenile offenders to rehabilitative services?

 

[hotlittlegirlwv]

This is where it gets fuzzy. If my kid is throwing a temper tantrum at the grocery store and I spank her hiney, and someone has a video camera handy, you can bet that there will be a ton of people calling for my head.

I agree. However, I think the majority of people can tell the difference between a spanking and a beating. Wait, I take that back. The majority probably wouldn't care. They would just want blood. You're right.