We The People

[Boxlicker101]

Just in the twentieth century now:

1. I have to give up almost half my paycheck to the government.

The highest marginal federal income tax rate is 35% and that is on taxable income over $372,950. I very much doubt that you pay anywhere near half your income to the IRS. Remember, we are talking about federal here.

2. I really have no say in what congress does.

That's not a lost right; people never did have much to say about what Congress does. At least now we get to vote for senators, which the public did not do a century ago.

3. The money they make me contribute to Social Security will never pay me a dime.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I used to think I would never make it to thirty, and I'm almost 70 now. I don't know your age, but if you fought in Viet Nam, you must be in your late fifties. I don't know that much about your health, so you might be right.

There's three to start.

None of those is actually a lost right and, in general, people are freer now than they were in 1909. I will say, as white males, we have probably benefitted less than most groups.

 

[DesertPirate]

Because the rest of the world's no better and in many places, even worse.

Change that to "most are very much worse" and you got it Tom

 

[Huckleman2000]

Had to give Huck another chance to see this.

It made no sense the first time I saw it. I didn't feel foolish, except for a vague sense that some seventh grader seems to think he got one up on me.

 

[DesertPirate]

It made no sense the first time I saw it. I didn't feel foolish, except for a vague sense that some seventh grader seems to think he got one up on me.

Oh, your rant about the list?
The fact that it could have been an outline for the founding of this country?
The truth of the list and your childish reaction?
Dig that hole any deeper and you'll never get out.

 

[SweetWitch]

Is this the place for the blood bath? I hear blood is good for the skin...

*Ducks and runs*

 

[sr71plt]

Has anyone looked at the calendar lately? It's July 10th now (a day earlier in some places, of course--but well past the 4th).

 

[DesertPirate]

Is this the place for the blood bath? I hear blood is good for the skin...

*Ducks and runs*

Thanks for lightening the atmosphere Molly

 

[SweetWitch]

Thanks for lightening the atmosphere Molly

Don't start none, won't be none. Motto to live by, Pirate. You should try it some time.

 

[DesertPirate]

Don't start none, won't be none. Motto to live by, Pirate. You should try it some time.

How boring would that be?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

The highest marginal federal income tax rate is 35% and that is on taxable income over $372,950. I very much doubt that you pay anywhere near half your income to the IRS. Remember, we are talking about federal here.

Add in Social Security and Medicare (both Federal last time I looked), and you are forgetting about the AMT Alternative Minimum Tax with a 46% rate. With the 7.51% SS and 3.55% Medicare tax that is well over 50%.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Add in Social Security and Medicare (both Federal last time I looked), and you are forgetting about the AMT Alternative Minimum Tax with a 46% rate. With the 7.51% SS and 3.55% Medicare tax that is well over 50%.

Very few people get involved with the AMT. Certainly I don't. Social Security is only assessed on part of your salary or wages and I still want to mention that the highest marginal rate is just a marginal rate, and is only assessed on part of your income.

I do agree that it's too damn high, but it's not as high as you are claiming, unless you have an extremely high income and no tax shelters.

 

[DesertPirate]

In actuality, if you add income, property, sales, social security,medicaire taxes together, your actual tax rate is over 65%.

 

[Huckleman2000]

In actuality, if you add income, property, sales, social security,medicaire taxes together, your actual tax rate is over 65%.

In actuality, you don't know what my or anyone's "actual tax rate" is. You don't know my income, home ownership, state of residence, age, marriage or family status. So just shut the fuck up about my, or anyone else's "actual tax rate."

If you're trying to make a larger point about "average" taxes, then show your math.

 

[TE999]

In actuality, if you add income, property, sales, social security,medicaire taxes together, your actual tax rate is over 65%.

But, but...you mean you don't want to pay your fair share?

 

[sr71plt]

But, but...you mean you don't want to pay your fair share?

Bingo. DesertPirate wants to enjoy the services and pretend that they just happen and let others pay for them. That's always been his position.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Bingo. DesertPirate wants to enjoy the services and pretend that they just happen and let others pay for them. That's always been his position.

But if the tax system was "fair", then everyone who earned an income would pay, not just half of us who earned an income.

 

[amicus]

"Fair?" I always wondered what that means, especially with the left drift of this particular forum. What is a fair percentage of your day to be confiscated by government. What is a 'fair' wage for a working person? What is fair housing and medical care?

Determined by whom?

Enforced by whom?

What is the 'fair' price I pay for a gallon of Milk, a gallon of Gas, a loaf of Bread, a carton of smokes? Determined by whom?

Please accept this as an aside, but it is not large enough for its' own thread, yet, as I watched a news program about a lady doing business from her home for several years, suddenly have the 'license' purchased from the 'city', withdrawn, as too many small businesses had vacated the down town area and the city father's experienced a deficit in tax collections from businesses located in the city proper.

Now...as I see the future...more and more people will work from their homes, because of the computer age and the web and conferencing and all the bells and whistles of sending large amounts of information, pictures, graphics, over the internet...hell...I can foresee the day when the brick and mortar school house goes the way of the bookstore...*******.

But...leave it to government to confiscate every penny it can from those who produce to support those who refuse to be responsible for their owns lives.

Such a deal. Strange...on television, music back for a 1989 film 'Say Anything...', a 30 year old piece by the Dave Brubeck Quartet, "Take Five", sometimes the old things, the old ways....are better....much better....

Amicus

 

[DesertPirate]

But if the tax system was "fair", then everyone who earned an income would pay, not just half of us who earned an income.

To me the flat tax idea is "fair", everyone pays the same percentage, no exceptions, no loophole, no excuses. Individuals and businesses alike. Of course a bunch of accountants and tax lawyers would have to find real work but so what? Who said we needed a tax system that was a jobs program for them.

 

[DesertPirate]

In actuality, you don't know what my or anyone's "actual tax rate" is. You don't know my income, home ownership, state of residence, age, marriage or family status. So just shut the fuck up about my, or anyone else's "actual tax rate."

If you're trying to make a larger point about "average" taxes, then show your math.

To determine your "real" tax rate add up all the taxes you actually pay. Don't forget Gasoline, car registration, any tax on utility bills, etc. Then do the math against your income, the result will not be pretty.

 

[Boxlicker101]

But if the tax system was "fair", then everyone who earned an income would pay, not just half of us who earned an income.

Actually, you don't have to earn an income to pay income taxes. I pay income tax on my pension and 85% of my Social Security benefits. And, of course, I pay sales tax and property tax too.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Actually, you don't have to earn an income to pay income taxes. I pay income tax on my pension and 85% of my Social Security benefits. And, of course, I pay sales tax and property tax too.

Yes you do and the reason is the IRS had defined that income as earned income. And you did earn it, just not recently. And now when you die the government will have it's hand out again to take a portion of you estate also.

 

[sr71plt]

You only pay taxes on the new income generated from you annuity. It's not like something you ever had before and are paying double on.

Again. I'd be quite pleased to let anyone just not pay their taxes who didn't want to--and withdraw every single service from them that the taxes were paying for--and see if they can get to the end of their driveway without being mugged, and if they did, if they can level and pave their own road to go anywhere beyond that.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

You only pay taxes on the new income generated from you annuity. It's not like something you ever had before and are paying double on.

Again. I'd be quite pleased to let anyone just not pay their taxes who didn't want to--and withdraw every single service from them that the taxes were paying for--and see if they can get to the end of their driveway without being mugged, and if they did, if they can level and pave their own road to go anywhere beyond that.

Again, I am willing to pay taxes, just not based on my income.

 

[sr71plt]

Again, I am willing to pay taxes, just not based on my income.

Sure, I'd favor paying by what you draw off of everything. The rich would still be paying more, though, I'll bet. And single mothers would be dying in the streets. That would be fun.

 

[Boxlicker101]

You only pay taxes on the new income generated from you annuity. It's not like something you ever had before and are paying double on.

Again. I'd be quite pleased to let anyone just not pay their taxes who didn't want to--and withdraw every single service from them that the taxes were paying for--and see if they can get to the end of their driveway without being mugged, and if they did, if they can level and pave their own road to go anywhere beyond that.

I'm only referring to federal income taxes. Local police services are paid for by sales and use taxes and local property taxes and street repairs are paid for by the same and by on-road fuel taxes. I pay these taxes.

Everybody pays sales and use taxes. Everybody pays property taxes, either directly or indirectly, except those who live in public housing. People who drive pay the fuel taxes.