Was Hitler a socialist or a capitalist?

[sygn]

This forum being often split on the socialism versus capitalism line, I read countless accusations of neo-fascism on both parts.

Such parallels are completely bonkers when one refers to the Left or Right's perceived propensity for violence. But they can be used appropriately to speculate on current ideological maneuvers.


A recap. of historical background (just disregard the clear Left leaning bias):
Jane Coastonjane.coaston@vox.com

Germany had a long history of socialist and Marxist political organizing even before the First World War, which launched in 1914.
And following the end of the First World War — and more importantly, Germany’s loss in the war and, thus, the end of the German empire — German politics became incredibly contentious, even deadly. Communists and Freikorps — World War One veterans who became a right-wing militia of sorts during the 1920s — at times even battled in the streets.

Into that environment stepped Adolf Hitler. He joined what was then called the German Workers Party (DAP) in 1919. The party renamed itself the NSDAP in 1920, and Hitler became party chairman in 1921.

But despite joining what would be called the “National Socialist” German workers party, Adolf Hitler prohibited the formation of Nazi trade unions, and by 1929 he outright rejected any efforts by Nazis who argued in favor of socialistic ideas or projects in their entirety.

Rather, Hitler viewed socialism as a way of creating a “people’s community” that would bring everyday Germans (and businesspeople) together not based on their class but on their race and ethnicity.
No American political party (L,R) can be compared to the Nazi Party."

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/27/18283879/nazism-socialism-hitler-gop-brooks-gohmert

 

[sygn]

My take:

Is the article below right in suggesting that Hitler (mis)appropriated socialism to attract a disenchanted population, while protecting industrialists? Did he deflect people's anger over class issues, by unifying them along racial lines?

If so, I see a similar deflection from class issues among certain extreme Right (radical nationalists) and Left-wing parties (intersectionality like BLM, postmodern feminists).

The far right is blatantly obvious. The far left - less so, because it contradicts their stated ideology:

Most current feminist leaders, who are part of the upper class, focus largely on men versus women and rarely on money/status issues that are more painful to lower-class women. Why? Because the latter might attack Their status quo.
-- I also read that whereas MLK saw uplifting Blacks out of oppression by joining All races among class disparities, BLM does the Whites versus Blacks thing to the detriment of class issues.

 

[badbabysitter]

Interesting that our argument stresses shit up till 1929

Guess Hitler didnt have any events in his life after 1929 that might have changed his policies

 

[oggbashan]

Hitler lead the National Socialist Democratic Workers Party - which covered virtually everything.

He wasn't a capitalist - he wanted a control economy with everything run by Nazi bureaucrats. The paperwork created for the war economy was mindblowing.

Contracts were not awarded on a competitive basis but on Nazi Party membership.

He was a nation-wide control freak and the state was authoritarian.

 

[badbabysitter]

Most current feminist leaders, who are part of the upper class, focus largely on men versus women and rarely on money/status issues that are more painful to lower-class women. Why? Because the latter might attack Their status quo.
.

So, abortion is a men versus women issue

Sexual assault = men versus women?

Representation = men versus women?

Reproductive rights as a whole = men versus women?

 

[sygn]

So, abortion is a men versus women issue

Sexual assault = men versus women?

Representation = men versus women?

Reproductive rights as a whole = men versus women?

Of course not. Domestic and sexual violence towards women remain a huge issue.

But I criticize postmodern feminists for focusing almost exclusively on these.

Early feminists, just like MLK were also focused on uplifting the lower-class from poverty and daily indignities. Especially since a small % of violence IS exacerbated by such daily frustrations.

It's like postmodern leaders are trying to dodge the bullet because 95% of them are upper class. It serves them better to focus on the men versus women schism, than unifying the two genders around class issues..

 

[badbabysitter]

Of course not. Domestic and sexual violence towards women remain a huge issue.

But I criticize postmodern feminists for focusing almost exclusively on these.



Early feminists, just like MLK were also focused on uplifting the lower-class from poverty and daily indignities. Especially since a small % of violence IS exacerbated by such daily frustrations.

It's like feminist leaders are trying to dodge the bullet because 95% of them are upper class. It serves them better to focus on the men versus women schism, than unifying the two genders around class issues..

Then you dont know jack or shit about modern feminism


You seem to be completely disregarding intersectionalism of any sort, be it trans community issues, indigenous issues, religous issues, work place issues, social media... shit the list goes on and on

 

[BoyNextDoor]

He was whatever he needed to be to assert authoritarian control in the name of racial and ethnic purity and the elevation of his Aryan race over all others.

He specifically reversed the orientation of the party away from it roots in socialism because he wanted to take over nationally and he saw the "right" as ripe for takeover an manipulation.

He also ushered in a version of state-capitalism as he did so.

Hitler was a capitalist, but specifically a capitalism based on authoritarian control.

 

[badbabysitter]

He was whatever he needed to be to assert authoritarian control in the name of racial and ethnic purity and the elevation of his Aryan race over all others.

He specifically reversed the orientation of the party away from it roots in socialism because he wanted to take over nationally and he saw the "right" as ripe for takeover an manipulation.

He also ushered in a version of state-capitalism as he did so.

Hitler was a capitalist, but specifically a capitalism based on authoritarian control.

One could argue that he embraced a form of corporate socialism, in which profit was encouraged in so far as it advanced the states goals

He encouraged courage sponsorship[ and control of public works so long as it boostered the military and economic state

 

[Conager]

He was whatever he needed to be to assert authoritarian control in the name of racial and ethnic purity and the elevation of his Aryan race over all others.

He specifically reversed the orientation of the party away from it roots in socialism because he wanted to take over nationally and he saw the "right" as ripe for takeover an manipulation.

He also ushered in a version of state-capitalism as he did so.

Hitler was a capitalist, but specifically a capitalism based on authoritarian control.

Nonsense.

Hitler was a bigger fan of socialism than either you or Bernie.

 

[badbabysitter]

Nonsense.

Hitler was a bigger fan of socialism than either you or Bernie.

Thank you for clearly demonstrating your opinion based on facts

oh right, you brought nothing but a rwcj talking point

 

[sygn]

One could argue that he embraced a form of corporate socialism, in which profit was encouraged in so far as it advanced the states goals

He encouraged courage sponsorship[ and control of public works so long as it boostered the military and economic state

Loved how you put it.


The article says that he was in neither the socialist camp, nor the corporatist one.
He needed both the population's support and capitalists' (Germans, Americans) money to restore the glory and wealth of the German Empire. (as he saw it).

I understood that? the population at the time was more susceptible to both class (socialist) or identity (antisemite) manipulative rhetoric, having been driven to abject poverty by the last Keiser with his failed wars, while major industrialists (a few Jews) continued to prosper.

As to his wars?
Some say they were motivated by fear of the rising East/Red hammer, others by rivalry and unease with America's prosperity and power.

Speaks to his power of persuasion and psychological tactics that he convinced the population to re-enter another war, given that approx. 1.7 million Germansdied during ww1.

 

[sygn]

btw: "The Exception"

Such an entertaining movie.
Great directing, great acting. I heartily endorse it.
Jai Courtney too - he used to put me off, he seemed kind of rough in Divergent, but he was So Cool! I'm now a fan.

The movie has, of course, historical inaccuracies, but it gives you a sense of Germans' political mood at the beginning of ww2.

 

[domroger]

Hitler lead the National Socialist Democratic Workers Party - which covered virtually everything.

He wasn't a capitalist - he wanted a control economy with everything run by Nazi bureaucrats. The paperwork created for the war economy was mindblowing.

Contracts were not awarded on a competitive basis but on Nazi Party membership.

He was a nation-wide control freak and the state was authoritarian.

Now who does that remind me of .

 

[BaritoneTele]

You seem to be completely disregarding intersectionalism of any sort, be it trans community issues, indigenous issues, religous issues, work place issues, social media... shit the list goes on and on

That's because intersectionalism is identitarian bullshit and should be dismissed for the bigoted shit that it is.

Thank you for clearly demonstrating your opinion based on facts

oh right, you brought nothing but a rwcj talking point

Only if you're ignoring reality.

 

[RobDownSouth]

https://i.imgur.com/SuioD70.jpg

 

[Sean Renaud]

So, abortion is a men versus women issue

Sexual assault = men versus women?

Representation = men versus women?

Reproductive rights as a whole = men versus women?

Actually I think a halfway decent argument in the category of yes could be made here.

 

[sygn]

^^
hei, good to see your name up there again.
I used to comment on your posts, but that was years & aeons of usernames ago.

 

[BaritoneTele]

https://i.imgur.com/SuioD70.jpg

Meme created by someone who doesn't understand what socialism is, for other people who have no fucking clue what socialism is.

Not shocking that Rob posted it.

 

[BaritoneTele]

One could argue that he embraced a form of corporate socialism, in which profit was encouraged in so far as it advanced the states goals

He encouraged courage sponsorship[ and control of public works so long as it boostered the military and economic state

The state was in most cases the official and if not certainly the effective owner of the means of production and strictly administered the distribution of goods and services.

It was every bit the top down centrally controlled economy that the Marxist had.

They were DEFINITIVELY socialists....not Marxist, identitarian ethno-socialist who saw the route to the egalitarian utopia to get rid of all the undesirables, but still socialist, still pursuing the egalitarian utopia.

Not at all ideologically unlike the intersectional identitarians of today.

 

[sygn]

The state was in most cases the official if not effect owner of the means of production and strictly administered the distribution of goods and services.

They were DEFINITIVELY socialists....not Marxist, but still socialist.

True, just like the fact that German and American capitalists funded Hitler's guns and bombs and gas chambers.

 

[BaritoneTele]

And German and American capitalists funded Hitler's guns and bombs and gas chambers.

Oh I'm sure some Americans and other capitalist did.

We know all German citizens did...but they weren't capitalist, they, their property and businesses were tightly controlled by the state/collective at the end of a gun, just like with all socialist states.

What's your point?

 

[sygn]

Oh I'm sure some Americans and other capitalist did.

We know all German citizens did...but they weren't capitalist, they, their property and businesses were tightly controlled by the state/collective at the end of a gun, just like with all socialist states.

What's your point?

Because I read somewhere that companies like IG Farben, Krupp Steel and Bosch-Siemens drew a huge profit from constructing the concentration camps, and from the slave labour supplied by them.
The profit ended up enriching the companies a lot more than the state.

 

[badbabysitter]

Because I read somewhere that companies like IG Farben, Krupp Steel and Bosch-Siemens drew a huge profit from constructing the concentration camps, and from the slave labour supplied by them.
The profit ended up enriching the companies a lot more than the state.

Or a very obscure company known as Volkswagen, you've probably never heard of them


Or the control over public works that coprorations were given, or I'm guessing he thinks the autobahn is a natural occuring envoirnmental feature



Good to see the alt-right cheerleader back entertaining us with the history of the earth he came from in another universe

 

[badbabysitter]

That's because intersectionalism is identitarian bullshit and should be dismissed for the bigoted shit that it is.



Only if you're ignoring reality.

You know as much about interscectionalism as you do about the Old Testament