Wait a minute....you left out "The Other Taboo Topic"

[forgetunome]

What about Euthanasia? The flip side of abortion I call it. What if someone has lived out what "Society would call their time of being a productive member of civilization?" do we as the healthy want to make the decision of rather than having them take up bed space in hospitals and nursing homes, etc. and being a drain on medicare decide to end their lives? After all they are suffering and are no longer productive why should they live?

Then always knowing that one day we too will be at that end of the spectrum with our youth at the decision end deciding it is time for us to go? After all if we ended the life before too much medical attention was given then maybe medical insurance would come down in costs?

Just playing the "devils advocate" here. This is not my opinion! Just playing suppose..............

A couple of years ago Oregon passed a right to Euthanasia law. There were concerns that maybe someone would cross the line and say to pull the plug, so to speak, for all the wrong reasons, such as inheritance.

[Edited by forgetunome on 11-04-2000 at 06:51 AM]

 

[Bobtoad777]

dagnavit why don't we just do this:

Let the Murderers run free
Kill the old
Kill the Unborn
Kill the sick
Kill the weak

That way those who are alive are strong and healthy to fight off the murderers

Easy enough solution for all? devils advacate.

 

[forgetunome]

nope...

Like I said...it isn't my opinion....I just thought since they brought up all the other topics might as well throw another one in. Might as well cover all the topics. Equal time.

[Edited by forgetunome on 11-04-2000 at 07:03 AM]

 

[Bobtoad777]

the above post wasnt my opinion either, but that seems to be pretty close to the consensus of the board for some reason, or maybe I am just reading to much into the other posts

 

[Merelan]

It is not something easily decided. Any of these topics. There are pros and cons for all of them. Flip sides and what ifs. Extenuating circumstances and exceptions to every rule.
It does not amaze me, what I read on this thread, and the others. Many of our fellow posters are very intelligent, and have an educated logic to their responses. Others are choosing by instinct, or what they have been taught to believe.
It is what keeps this world a fresh place.
No, this isn't showing my opinion is it? Not going to either. I am simply commenting on the diversity of the answers and opinions.
One last comment..
What if it was your mother? Your spouse? Your child? Put yourself in a personal spot and see if your opinion is the same. Look over at them and see if you honestly, deep down could do that. Whether pulling the plug, aborting them, throwing the switch. If you feel the same then good, if you don't, then good. I just wanted you to think.
I do not mean to offend anyone. Please understand I am simply trying to get some of you to look at it in a different aspect. I know many of you have. I know some of you have been through such pain that I cannot even comprehend it.
I just wanted to make you think.

 

[forgetunome]

Merelan...

Excellent points! Personally, I don't think I could do it. My father passed away 4 years ago Oct. 30th. We (my family) were going to have to make the decision of whether we should pull the plug or not. Even knowing that my father had always said he didn't want to be kept alive artificially it is a very hard decision to make! After all you love this person and maybe if you can keep him (or them) alive artificially maybe they will pull through and make it? But, he passed away before we had to make the decision and I have to say we all breathed a sigh of relief that we didn't have to make the decision.

But...on the other hand I can see the other side of the coin not in us making the decision but...of the person who is suffering. If they are in their right mind and can't deal with the pain and suffering of a disease that is certain death anyway begging for you to help them end it....(this was the basis for Oregon's law). It still would be so hard but, if they want it ended....can you help? And should it be made legal. It would be very hard to do. And could you live with yourself even knowing that it is what they wanted.

I don't know if I could do it...but hopefully, I'm never put in that position. I know for myself I don't want to be kept alive by artificial means. If I can't breathe or live on my own then let me go. I keep thinking I need to make a living will in order to give my husband a right to do it.

Gruesome topic,eh?

 

[Sammyjo]

My father and I had a similar discussion last night. Our opinion seems to be the same on this one. If someone has an incurable disease (reflected in the opinions of more than one physician) and does not want to live through the pain and suffering, allowing the disease to play itself out, I feel that allowing them the luxury of being put to rest should be granted.

We had this dilemma when my grandpa was dying of cancer a few years back. He tried chemo and radiation, and finally chose to die at home with nothing but morphine for the pain. He took my mother's hand (his daughter-in-law, a nurse, the one "child" who has seen all this in the nursing home she works in) and said "I love you. I am ready to die." He was trying to get to someone, to let them know it was ok to allow him to die, quickly if possible. Eventually, the morphine wasn't enough. He was catheterized. He was humiliated in front of his family and friends by all these treatments he was having...treatments that were not going to save his life, only prolong them. He once lashed out at his wife because he hated that he couldn't do anything for himself. Imagine if it were you, suffering needlessly, when you could be resting in peace.

I could do it for a family member. I would do it, if it were in my power to do it for another human being.

I am not an uncaring bitch. I hate to see my loved ones in pain. And I am not so selfish as to keep someone around for MY comfort. It is their comfort we should be thinking of.

Thank you, and proceed to the happier threads.

 

[Bobtoad777]

my situation

euthinasia goes against every fiber in me, but my mother has requested of me that if she gets to the point where she needs machines to keep her alive that she does want me to pull the plug for her. and that is her request and I love her and honor her wishes and and hard as it will be on me at the time I will ask her if she remembers asking me to do it, its the deal she made me promise to ask her, and if she still says yes i will honor her request and have the plug pulled. Just thinking about it now brings tears to my eyes and rips at my heart, and I pray that she will be able to live to the end without machines so i do not have to do what she asks of me.

 

[Merelan]

Here is another point. You all seem to have talked to people about this. But. When it comes to the law in many states. It cannot happen if you don't have it in writing.
As a billboard around the corner says...
Are you an organ donor? Not if you haven't told your family, and your lawyer.

Simple quick, yet not. It means facing the fact that one day we shall die. Whether you believe there is life after this isn't the point. It is the body we are discussing.

So... here goes. Tell not only your friends, but your lawyer. Yes, and any of you who don't have a will are giving your money away to a stranger. That really has nothing to do with this topic, but follows along the same line. Whether or not you think you have anything to leave. Did you know that if you die without a will, in many states and countries, everything is frozen. All accounts and funds. That means, even if a joint account, your significant other is broke. At a time when they need all the love and support they can get, they now have to worry about how to pay for food and gas. In many places, without a will, you have just handed over your assets to the state or country you live in. Sucks but the truth. They try to settle it but most of it will end up being used in fees etc. And if you have children and don't have a will with guardianship carefully stated you are guilty of child neglect. It isn't a comfortable subject, but one that must be addressed.
No, I am not a lawyer and don't even play one on tv. I have been through these things. With family and friends. A sad fact is the law doesn't care about your pain and suffering. It can't. It is set up to work if you work with it.
So, blah blah blah....

Get what your family wants in writing or some stranger will be making the decision for you about their dignity of death.

 

[Bobtoad777]

My mom and I have it in writing with lawyer notorization and locked away in a security box which I have the only key. As per our agreement it doesnt come out agin until she dies or says that she wants me to still go through with it

 

[teresafannin]

Excellent points from several people. My grandmother suffered for 8 years hooked up to machines before she finally died, it was horrible. I am an organ donor & in the process of making all of the legal arrangements so that should I be at the point where machines are keeping me alive, I will be allowed to die with some dignity. My grandmother's illness wiped out their insurance & every bit of savings they had, I will not do that to my family. I have made my wishes very clear on this. My son had signed to be an organ donor,as well. Unfortunately, by the time the medical people got to him, it was too late, he was killed instantly, but due to the nature of the crime, the police weren't able to release the bodies. The time frame is very limited on organs, but if mine can help someone, especially a child, that is where they should go. Lying in a bed, hooked to machines is not living & I won't go through that indignity, like my grandmother did. See a lawyer & get it all in writing.

 

[forgetunome]

Organ Donor...

It's listed on my Drivers' License that I am an Organ Donor.

 

[teresafannin]

I have it on my DL as well, but sometimes that is not enough. If a family member who does not believe in organ donation is the one at the hospital, they can tell the doctors not to use the organs. There was a case here in Texas several years ago where that happpened. The opposing family members ended up in court, it was a mess. Having it all in writing with a family member you trust is the safest way to insure your final wishes will be carried out. I am even in the process of making my own burial arrangements.

 

[Cyan BloodsBane]

forgetunome,

That is the polite term of saying I am a used body shop good deals on hearts liver and kidneys well they last.....

I would have placed that on my card.... But I think the Vodka as taken a toll ($4.25 canadian a glass) on my body..hehe

 

[forgetunome]

Thanks!

I thought having it on the DL was enough! Geez, just shows you have to have it all down in writing! I better get busy!

 

[*Eve*]

If a person is terminally ill and in a great deal of pain why can't they chose to end their lives with a little dignity? Who are we to tell them how they should go? If I were ever in a situation where I was terminally ill and suffering, I'm not sure how I would feel but if I were lying in some hospital in a vegatative state with no chance of pulling through I would hope my family would be kind enough to pull the plug on my life support.

 

[Skibum]

I have no problem with someone ending their own life, but they need to do it THEMSELF. If they have to rely on another person, like Dr. Kevorkian, the whole ides sounds a little fishy. If you want to do it, just do it. Don't make it a media event.

 

[Earthmuffin]

Well, alright dunno why but I'm gonna throw my opinion around. As I've said before, and I'll say again, whatever you do please make the tough decisions while you have your health and your sanity. Do not leave them up to ppl who do not know you and do not care about you.

As a Geritatrics Nurse hell yeah I'll slip into the room of a frail dying person and holding their hand I'll give them the morphine that will ultimately ease their pain and slide them into that sweet good night. The alternate? Listening to their ragged breaths rattle and catch as they drown in their own lungs, watch their fever give them a grimace and a glassy look to the eyes which have long ago stopped seeing my face. Listen to their heart beat so irregularly as to not sound anything like a heartbeat. Am I carpathian? Maybe. Do I truly care for the person I'm doing it for? More than most will ever know. I cry real tears as I bite my lip giving the drops or injection. I have held an order long enough to call a family member who cares and let them get there to say good bye. Most of the time it's just me.

I know how hard it is to make decisions for those who can't it takes a piece of your soul. I had to sign my name to the DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) orders for my beautiful infant son and I held him and cried as my world ripped in half listening to alarms sound telling me what I knew and didn't want to believe.

It boils down to a basic right...the right to die with the dignity you lived your life with. It's not suicide it's peace.


Where are my damn kleenex?

 

[Guest]

I have no problem with someone ending their own life, but they need to do it THEMSELF. If they have to rely on another person, like Dr. Kevorkian, the whole ides sounds a little fishy. If you want to do it, just do it. Don't make it a media event.

I disagree. It was THEIR decision. The doc only helped out their wishes. It isn't easy to end your own life, and they put you in the nut house if you fail, cause that's against the law too.

::muttering to myself about personal rights of dignity::

 

[Guest]

Where are my damn kleenex?

I'll join you.....I've never experienced this with strangers, but I've watched my gparents go.....wish I could have eased their pain.

 

[forgetunome]

Earthmuffin....

Originally posted by Earthmuffin
Where are my damn kleenex?

You sound like an angel! What a tough job and I am sure not enough appreciation for your administrations!

(((((((((((((hugs to you)))))))))))))))

*sob* Now where's my kleenex!

 

[Cheyenne]

I didn't have the strength to put my cat down and end its suffering when I should have. How am I ever going to pull the plug on my parents? They have living wills, and I have power of attorney for financial and health care matters for them. I hope I never need to use either power of attorney.

As for putting your wishes in writing, do it. It took me a year to go through with all the paperwork, but now I have a will, a trust, durable power of attorney for financial matters (my best friend), power of attorney for health care (my sister) and a living will, not to mention the signed drivers license for organ donation. Everyone knows exactly what I want them to do for me and they have all agreed. I discovered it was important to ask them, too. My best friend wouldn't take power of attorney for health care because he said he couldn't decide for me when the time came whether I lived or died. He knew he couldn't do it. I pray that my sister can.

 

[Thumper]

Ahem...*tapping bob on shoulder*

the above post wasnt my opinion either, but that seems to be pretty close to the consensus of the board for some reason, or maybe I am just reading to much into the other posts

Just where the fuck did anyone say "Let the murderes run free"?

The way you twisted that one around would make a campaign manager green with envy. I do believe we just said that executing them was wrong....how does that equate with letting them run free?? My feeble mind seems to be unable to grasp that connection.

Feels like I am arguing with Rush Limbaugh here....sheesh.

BTW....I have mixed feelings about euthanasia....If I was Chris Reeve I would find a way out...but that is me. I admire his drive.

Don't prolong my life unnecessarily and end it peacefully if I am terminally ill and in terrible pain. But it should be MY decision only.

I did not get past bob's post before responding so if this seems non sequiter then forgive me...

Now for more Rum...

 

[Weird Harold]

A lighter moment on a depressing topic.

I have no problem with someone ending their own life, but they need to do it THEMSELF. If they have to rely on another person, like Dr. Kevorkian, the whole ides sounds a little fishy. If you want to do it, just do it. Don't make it a media event.

A very old lady was complaining to a friend, "I hurts so much nowadays, theys somedays I can't hardly move at all mah joints hurt s'much. I'd jes' end it all if'n I knowed the best way to c'mit sooeecide.

"Oh hell, Mable. That's easy. Ya jes' gets one o'them pistols, and ya puts it two inches under your left nipple. Then ya pulls the trigger and it's all over," her friend replied.

Poor Mable shot herself right in the left kneecap.

(Thank you "Moms" Mably, R.I.P)

The point is, for many different reasons, some people either don't know how, or aren't physically capable of doing it themselves.

 

[Thumper]

Now you come clean this up!

WH...I have Rum and MT Dew all over my screen now!!

Thanks a lot!

LMFAO!