Virtual Rape

[cheerful_deviant]

So to take this discussion to a slightly different level, lets' suppose that the 'victim' is a 14 year old girl using Second Life and her alter ego is virtually and graphically raped by some 35 year old male using a slicer program. What does this constitute? Is it making sexual advances towards a minor? Didtribution of pronographic material? Contrubution to the delinquincy of a Minor, or some such? Now is it a crime?

 

[poppy1963]

So to take this discussion to a slightly different level, lets' suppose that the 'victim' is a 14 year old girl using Second Life and her alter ego is virtually and graphically raped by some 35 year old male using a slicer program. What does this constitute? Is it making sexual advances towards a minor? Didtribution of pronographic material? Contrubution to the delinquincy of a Minor, or some such? Now is it a crime?

I'm gonna sit back and read. Much of what you've just described is beyond my experiences on the internet so I don't know.

 

[Recidiva]

So to take this discussion to a slightly different level, lets' suppose that the 'victim' is a 14 year old girl using Second Life and her alter ego is virtually and graphically raped by some 35 year old male using a slicer program. What does this constitute? Is it making sexual advances towards a minor? Didtribution of pronographic material? Contrubution to the delinquincy of a Minor, or some such? Now is it a crime?

No, because again you can shut it off. It can't be defined as rape. It can be defined by game rules. Second Life is a raunchy place and I'm sure there's a warning.

If you're that young playing, I'm fairly sure before you get to the graphic rape part, there were some hints. Just like signing into Llit, you have to read and sign a few things.

It's a game. If someone cut out a paper doll that had "YOU" and "ME" written on them and they made them hump, it's insulting, it's upsetting, it's any number of emotional thingies, it's not rape. Investing that much meaning into it really gets you no where when you're defining real harm versus pretend harm.

 

[Recidiva]

Really, if we start holding virtual characters responsible for all their actions, I'd be up on about...574,089,762 murder charges. Give or take.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I had a very unnerving experience here and while I know it was no crime, it certainly had a frightful impact on me.

I was new to a nice intertaining ongoing thread of people getting to "know" them some and visiting often. One day a new "young woman" showed up as part of a "swinging couple" and was extremely seductive pretty much inviting a "gang bang" of sorts. The "men" in the thread at that time (there were 3 and one I thought/think very highly of) became like different people and took her up on this consensual multiple thing. I commented that I was gonna leave as it's not my kinda thing.

What made it unnerving was the young woman then began to present as being kinda "forced" into this by people in her physical environment and she kept saying: "Please don't leave me, Poppy! Please don't leave me! Stay with me...please don't leave me!" It was very dismaying and I wasn't sure what the heck was going on. Was she in some way being forced to do this in her real life environment? Or was it just a role play? Watching these men begin this cyber gangbang was very disturbing....really very disturbing. I left the thread and didn't go back for a while but watched. Nothing like that has ever happened again.

The young woman is still here, has gone through some reported changes in her real life that seemed better but now seems to be getting back to what used to be with her old partner/husband.

Anyway...it was the violence and the disregard all had for one who MAY have been being truly victimized in some way to behave in such a way.

Thoughts on this? Comments? Like I said...I know it was not a CRIME online but it had a very powerful effect on me at the time. I really like the thread-starter and he has been great fun in lots of ways and one who seems genuinely to reach out to others in lots of helpful ways. Just weird...I still think about it sometimes...and shudder.

Wow, Poppy- I didn't even see this post, I'm so sorry!

So, you got the impression that it might be happening in real life? I'd say that she wouldn't have had time to type on the keyboard if so...
It sounds like these guys were very good role-players. And you were being asked to stay in a scene that was past your limits.

Remember that phrase; "This is past my limits" and use it!

And never forget your "PM This person" option, and use it- in this case, I would have PM'd the girl and asked her- in "private" so to speak- if she was RP-ing or if she actually felt threatened. You can also PM the thread-starter and talk to him about it, okay?

I knew a man who got involved with a woman who claimed to be utterly submissive to her father and his friends, and she'd tell him horrible things that they'd done to her. He broke down and cried in front of me once, telling me. He knew that there was more chance than not that someone was lying to him, but because he kept feeling like it might be true- and she kept saying that he was her only friend- he let the relationship continue.

I pointed out to him that if she could talk to him, she could talk to lots of people, including the cops. And that it was doing him, by that point, real emotional harm to talk to her, since she kept saying that there was NOTHING he could do to help her. Take a hike, I told him, the bags under his eyes weren't doing anything for his looks.

(My sister tells me I am emotionally stunted...)

 

[Stella_Omega]

So to take this discussion to a slightly different level, lets' suppose that the 'victim' is a 14 year old girl using Second Life and her alter ego is virtually and graphically raped by some 35 year old male using a slicer program. What does this constitute? Is it making sexual advances towards a minor? Didtribution of pronographic material? Contrubution to the delinquincy of a Minor, or some such? Now is it a crime?

NO, not unless the guy really and truly knew the girl was 14. And that would mean he knew her, somehow, in meat-space, and was maliciously going after her- using the internet as a tool. It would be difficult to prove, at the very least.

Actually, I might be 14 years old! I mean, how can you tell?

The internet is anarchistic in nature. It's the place where, if a kid wants to claim to be twenty-one, he can lie when he's registering. And why should I be responsible for his poor little sensibilities? I'm an adult, and if akid wants to present as an adult, as such I will treat him. If he is a really stupid adult, in presentation- then that's how he gets treated. Say Lah Vee.

edit- "meat-space" minus the hyphen was censored! who'd a thunk it!

 

[cheerful_deviant]

No, because again you can shut it off. It can't be defined as rape. It can be defined by game rules. Second Life is a raunchy place and I'm sure there's a warning.

If you're that young playing, I'm fairly sure before you get to the graphic rape part, there were some hints. Just like signing into Llit, you have to read and sign a few things.

It's a game. If someone cut out a paper doll that had "YOU" and "ME" written on them and they made them hump, it's insulting, it's upsetting, it's any number of emotional thingies, it's not rape. Investing that much meaning into it really gets you no where when you're defining real harm versus pretend harm.

Real Harm vs. Pretend Harm. To some people, their alter ego online is them in many respects. Almost as if the person had developed a split presonality. These people spend hundreds, maybe even thousands of hours online with that character (and maybe others). When something happens to that person is it actually mentally traumatic for that person, they can feel actual mental pain and suffering because of some act. Isn't that real harm? It may not be physical, but it sure is mental.

 

[Liar]

No, because again you can shut it off. It can't be defined as rape. It can be defined by game rules. Second Life is a raunchy place and I'm sure there's a warning.

If you're that young playing, I'm fairly sure before you get to the graphic rape part, there were some hints. Just like signing into Llit, you have to read and sign a few things.

It's a game. If someone cut out a paper doll that had "YOU" and "ME" written on them and they made them hump, it's insulting, it's upsetting, it's any number of emotional thingies, it's not rape. Investing that much meaning into it really gets you no where when you're defining real harm versus pretend harm.

Like I said: No it's not rape, and it seems the phrasing in the article is what makes lots of people here confused. And it's not assault. And it's not threats. What it is however, is harassment. Harassment by unconventional means, but I can't see how it can be anything but.

Same principles applies offline as online. Since all it is is emotionally upsetting and no physical damage or threat is present, the victim can choose to not let it get to him or her. And most of the time, people don't. But there is room for pressing charges, if one is so inclined.

However, if the police is investigating anything here, it's probably hacking related. Somebody hijacked another person's account, or at least part of it (the right to control one's character) as well as activated code in clear violation of the service's EULA, not to mention digital security legislation.

 

[Recidiva]

Real Harm vs. Pretend Harm. To some people, their alter ego online is them in many respects. Almost as if the person had developed a split presonality. These people spend hundreds, maybe even thousands of hours online with that character (and maybe others). When something happens to that person is it actually mentally traumatic for that person, they can feel actual mental pain and suffering because of some act. Isn't that real harm? It may not be physical, but it sure is mental.

Yes, well, to some people they over-identify with their possessions, their job, their car, their status. It's still not true.

I wouldn't support a law based on emotional investment on something that doesn't have the same value to everyone else.

I think this also leads to why I'm ambivalent about hate crime punishment and legislation. It glorifies being a victim in a way. Something I reject. If someone hates me for my gender or my race, that makes them an asshole, not me a victim. Their motive is irrelevant to me. Broken body or broken things, that's different. That has a pricetag.

People insult me, I don't have to take it. People are rude, obnoxious, even vicious, and I realize it's about them and not about me. I refuse to be upset, I insist on being responsible. I don't see why me behaving that way means it's worth less. It means I give others less power over me. That's my suggestion to those who over-identify.

Otherwise the result is that being a victim is valued much higher than being able to handle things in the appropriate context.

 

[Recidiva]

Like I said: No it's not rape, and it seems the phrasing in the article is what makes lots of people here confused. And it's not assault. And it's not threats. What it is however, is harassment. Harassment by unconventional means, but I can't see how it can be anything but.

Same principles applies offline as online. Since all it is is emotionally upsetting and no physical damage or threat is present, the victim can choose to not let it get to him or her. And most of the time, people don't. But there is room for pressing charges, if one is so inclined.

However, if the police is investigating anything here, it's probably hacking related. Somebody hijacked another person's account, or at least part of it (the right to control one's character) as well as activated code in clear violation of the service's EULA, not to mention digital security legislation.

Yes, that's why I said it was in the realm of identity theft. The example of my husband's account being hacked was the example I used. My husband had all the items/gold stripped off his character. Whoever used his account after hacking it made my husband a target of being an internal bad guy. He was banned. Took him two months to get everything back and straightened out. Our solution while we waited? Joined EQII, having more fun, couldn't care much about that game now.

But again, these are clearly entertainment media. There's no compulsion to sign on, or to be there. There's no threat to your survival if you're not there. When you agree to play games, play by the rules, there are criminals, yes, but the crimes taking place do not have real life analogs. Peudo-identity theft, hacking, yes. Assault and emotional trauma, no.

 

[Liar]

Real Harm vs. Pretend Harm. To some people, their alter ego online is them in many respects. Almost as if the person had developed a split presonality. These people spend hundreds, maybe even thousands of hours online with that character (and maybe others). When something happens to that person is it actually mentally traumatic for that person, they can feel actual mental pain and suffering because of some act. Isn't that real harm? It may not be physical, but it sure is mental.

Or one could look at it like this: The online character is the product of a lot of work. Somebody has "built" it, which have taken a lot of time and effort. It was hacked into and vandalized, with the purpose of causing emotional distress to it's rightful owner and creator.

If somebody would hack into Lit, and change my stories into Nazi propaganda diatribe and my AV to a pile of turds, I'd shrug and upload the correct stories and my backed up squirrel pic again. And probably change my password. But that didn't give whoever did that the right to vandalize my works.

 

[Recidiva]

Or one could look at it like this: The online character is the product of a lot of work. Somebody has "built" it, which have taken a lot of time and effort. It was hacked into and vandalized, with the purpose of causing emotional distress to it's rightful owner and creator.

If somebody would hack into Lit, and change my stories into Nazi propaganda diatribe and my AV to a pile of turds, I'd shrug and upload the correct stories and my backed up squirrel pic again. And probably change my password. But that didn't give whoever did that the right to vandalize my works.

The guy doing the hacking needs help. Honestly that's some messed up acting out, indicating really fucked up symbology and values.

The guy needs more help than the victim in this case. It's childish and moronic and should be treated that way. Dude, get some help, man. That's some petty shit.

If I didn't want my stuff to be seen, or interacted with, there are any number of places you can go where you're better monitored or structured.

Second Life is not one of them, that's a rough side of the tracks. I'm not blaming the victim or saying she deserved it. But had that happened to me, I would have laughed my ass off, then probably coughed for a while. "Honey, honey, come look at this! Dude, that's not even the right end! No way!"