Virgins of the Female Type…?

[amicus]

I am going to take no small effort to develope and background my interrogative post as I would like to understand.

I fully comprehend the necessities of online posting that we must acknowledge that no one until the stroke of birth-date age 18, ever even thinks about sex. However, I suggest that it may be possible in some circumstances, in a writerly fashon, to consider such things perhaps as speculation only?

I enjoy writing and speaking or playing music in such a way as to stimulate both thinking and feeling. If I can induce someone to think with an emotion involved, a passionate one, I feel I have reached someone with my mind. If I can play a piece of music and I see peeps smile or look happy or sad, emote, in any way, I feel I have reached them. If I can write something for a distant audience, unknown to me, but elicit a response, I have reached out and touched someone; which is why we all, as writers, treasure comments received, do we not?

However, as a writer, to entice you to read on…My dear departed mother when I first showed an interest in girls and not baseball, laughingly told me that I had my first erection at two months of age. I was embarrassed of course, and did not understand why she would say such a thing, but she just said: “You are responsible, control yourself and think…”

I am not the least bit interested in male sexuality. I was born with ‘that thing’ and have been searching for a place to put it forever, so sue me; at least I am aware.

But female sexuality, well thas a different thing. Later in life, of course, I had daughters and discovered, lo and behold that they too, liked to ‘touch themselves’ in peculiar places, (to me a new father), that was a curious thing as all the girls I knew as a boy always said, “no!” and quite emphatically.

Thus the mystery of female sexuality has been with me forever, notwithstanding the age or the time of Victorian England or the ‘Flappers’ of the 1920’s or the Playboy of the 50’s not even the love children of the Hippy generation, which is history to most, but real time experience to me.

So thumb your nose and call it a perversion if you will, but as a writer of romance and first time experiences, I have an interest in understanding as much as I can from a gender gap that is abysmal.

I am a poet also, I condense pages to lines, and rhyme about everything and wax and wane and draw attention, as I have here, on matters that few seldom approach and I gather readers young and old and some very young and some very old for I know or suspect many things and have few, if any, inhibitions about expressing what I know and feel.

Thus, at a poetry site which I have subscribed to years, I gathered a following of those who read and wished to be read and understood and encouraged to write and think and explore the words and the thoughts of a world they were just becoming aware of.

I discovered they would say things and ask questions that my own daughters could not and I grew a family of young people who looked to me to listen, to comment to encourage and yes, to scold when the cutting and the Goth and the drugs appeared in their works.

As the years went by, fast or slow for them or me, they went from age 12 or 13 to high school and now in college and they still ask questions and seek understanding or approval or disdain; it has become a very strange circumstance as I have never talked to on the telephone or met a single one, yet they are closer than many I know very close.

And of course they told me, “He kissed me!” “He touched me!” “He wants….” and then it becomes difficult as they want to know and I really cannot say.. yes or no, or even suggest without stepping beyond what has always been.

There are a thousand other things, things that would fill a book, that I could share, but the purpose would be as background to the issue of this post and what is offered will either suffice or not.


‘Virgins of the Female Type…?’


I have written dozens of stories about ‘First Time’ events, my favorite I think, is called ‘Missy’ which was on Literotica several years ago but is now published in a book, ‘Surprises of Love’. There are others also, still here in the “Billy” series, and I say that only to state that my interest is not new but is ever growing and expanding as I try to comprehend the ‘gender gap’ , that in my mind, will never be bridged.

I am currently working on two stories, well, more than that, but…one of which, and I have asked for help on this one, for the very first time, has taken me beyond what I think I know into areas of the female psyche in which I am uncertain. The second is more fun, a group of Japanese school girls on tour and a rather libidinous hotel clerk, still first time experiences, but not in the usual way. Both stories involve first time experiences although they are from totally different perspective and circumstances.

I always put a message in my writings, and at the same time try to make them readable and enjoyable, even from the perspective of an environment such as Literotica and at the same time, acceptable to a general audience, which is not always easy to do.

My quest is, as the question mark in the title implies, to ask what a young woman/girl, thinks as she begins to acknowledge her desire for the ultimate experience.

I suppose I need to qualify even that. I am sad that so many are abused and molested as children and have a jaded and ugly view of that ‘first time’ experience. I cannot fix that or help that and sadness or regret serves no purpose that I can see.

But the thought of, long anticipated, first sexual encounter is, in my view, the most important intimate relationship one human being can have with another and is of great import.

Thus as a romantic, I choose to ignore the ugly and concentrate on the beautiful and attempt to comprehend that which may not be comprehensible.

I have listened to, read the typing actually, a young girl that I have known since she was twelve and hated boys, who is now eighteen, tell me how she wants to be kissed…for the first time…how she wants to be held and touched…for the first time, and I am at a loss to know what to say to her.

I can only listen and refrain telling her to keep her knees together,(as a father should) and have cab fare.

Sighs….

So if you ladies, who were once young virgins, would deign to speak, I would listen and learn.

~~~

That is so long and I said so little…


Amicus….

 

[Vermilion]

Edited

 

[amicus]

Yes..indeed and thank you...that feeling of 'emptiness' after being full, but not knowing that you were empty and then missing it...is something I have tried from my male viewpoint to write and express.

You confirm that what I imagined actually does, in fact, occur....thank you, again...


amicus...

 

[3113]

Yes..indeed and thank you...that feeling of 'emptiness' after being full, but not knowing that you were empty and then missing it...is something I have tried from my male viewpoint to write and express.

Vermillion makes an excellent point...in most cases, losing one's virginity is something that a girl wants over and done with. If she's realistic, that is--if she's not, then she has dreams of romance and something very special...and is usually very disappointed. Because however hard the guy tries, hoping for a beautiful, romantic, pleasurable experience...well, that's not altogether likely.

As for when girls start wanting to lose their virginity--usually the first hint of that (hint ONLY) is somewhere between 9-13 when they find themselves infatuated with cute boys. They don't usually want the sex at that point, but they know they want something. I'm sure, as a father of daughters, you know this well. They scream and cry and get hysterical over rock stars or tv stars. It's that switch from disinterest in the opposite sex to interest.

Kissing, cuddling, fooling around as they move into older teen years makes them want it more. A lot more--as Vermillon said, it can make a girl decide that she's done waiting. Most girls are nervously ready somewhere between 16-25. Fear or doubts or just a late bloom can make them hold off till they're in their twenties, but somewhere in that range, most girls are ready to lose the virginity. And they're certainly imagining how it will feel and what it will be like.

But when it happens...it isn't like what they imagined. And usually, it's not a happy experience. Not tramatizing, just uncomfortable.

Can they have a magical wonderful amazing time? Some do. But not in the majority of cases. Why? Because virginal girls are physically tight and the guy they're with usually isn't that experienced. I remember a guy here, in the "How to" section, begging for advice--saying he loved his girlfriend, and they'd done everything else...and she SO wanted to lose her virginity... but she was one of those girls who was tight and everytime they tried they had to stop because it hurt. It hurt a lot. It was very moving to read his posts, how willing he was to make it a good experience for her. Yet there was no two ways about it. There was no magical way to turn intercourse into a pleasurable experience for her--just ways of making it less painful.

IMHO, that first time for MOST girls...isn't the best time. Or the most magical. Or the most special. It's just something you get over and done with. So you can do it again, and again, growing more practiced and more comfortable with it, and eventually get to that REAL magical first for *MOST* girls: the first orgasm. Or, more specifically, a first orgasm while engaged in intercourse.

That's what you have to keep in mind. For a guy, a first time is special--and the orgasm a given. For a girl, the first time is often uncomfortable...and the orgasm unlikely. So that makes the first, intercourse orgasm the special first time.

Is that what you were looking for?

 

[SlickTony]

Interesting thread. I lost my virginity to the man who became my first husband, but it wasn't until I was with the man who became my present husband that I had an orgasm through intromission. Even so, going for a "hands-off" intercourse orgasm is more trouble than it's worth, when you can accomplish it so much more easily by adding clitoral stimulation.

Virginity is overrated, IMO. It's equivalent to shipping wires, or the tamper-proof seal on a bottle. No, women aren't bottles of Tylenol. They are people. It is the cruel illogicity of the patriarchal system that on one hand asserts that women have free will and responsibility for their actions, but "damaged goods" if they take an action that men with this attitude disapprove of.

 

[Vermilion]

Edited

 

[amicus]

Thank you, Vermillion, 3113 and Slick Tony, I suspected this would be a difficult area for discussion as it is so very personal.

I read and responded to another thread on another board late last night, not ready for sleep and poking around the site in places I had never visited before. I found a thread about women describing an orgasm, I will perchance see if I can relocate my comment there and paste it back here in a bit.

It rather surprised me, the thoughts that came and were turned into words and of course, being me, I had to frame it in such a way as to incite an uprising.

I will look for it and perhaps rejuvenate this thread as I truly would like to read other viewpoints. Thanx again.


amicus...

 

[amicus]

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=492031



(Thread starter)

Female Climax Curious

I'd love to correspond with a woman who would be happy to reveal intimate details about her experience of orgasm. I will of course reciprocate if she's curious about the less mysterious male orgasm experience.

A case of "what you always wanted to know, but never asked" really.

Looking forward. 


Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedlady31 cute!
The female orgasm.....what a mystery.....all walls of ones uterus just contracts in rippling waves.....the sensation of releif and bliss unleashed with one single crash.......
The most wonderful part of the female orgasm is the fact we don't have...just one....or just two...but as many as....well countless.....Once one washes over...another one is peaking....






~~~~~



The fact is that women simply do not know and perhaps cannot know and thus, cannot relate without fictionalizing or fantasizing what they think and feel.

Do a little research and you can learn of clitoral, vaginal and uterine orgasms experienced by the female. The convulsions of the Uterus, the dipping down of the mouth of the cervix to sup of the impregnating fluid deposited, but this is, as I suggested, clinical, observed more by instruments and observation rather than experience.

Evolution rather dictates the mechanics of intercourse, insofar as blood rushes to the erogenous zones and vacates, you guessed it, the cognitive facility, the brain, the mind and the ancient brain functions, that keep the heart beating and the lungs pumping take over and all else is lost to sensuality. As it pretty much should be.

It must be left to we writers of erotic fiction to tell women what they feel, you can learn nothing from them.

Such is life. Sorry.

amicus



Well, that post was a thread killer as no one responded futher. I also doubt this one will go much more either.

Please do not read my comments as misogynistic, they are not intended as such, I love the ladies and some may be entirely capable of analyzing an orgasm in process and rationally relate it afterwards, I really don't know.

What I do know is the total lack of focused rationality and total loss of cognitive function when a male orgasm takes place. So no put downs intended or implied.


amicus....in search of the elusive...

 

[3113]

I have to say that even though I've been fucking for... hmm... <counts> 8 years now I've still not had an orgasm from intercourse alone. Always need the hand too

Heh. I said it badly, I think. What I meant was that a loss of virginity is less of a beautiful, romantic first for most women than the first time she has an orgasm while feeling connected to her partner. And in a heterosexual relationship, that usually means during intercourse (with or without warm-up assistance be it hands or tongues).

It's that mutual pleasure moment, when you know that your orgasm is being felt by him, and he knows, in turn, knows that you're feeling him. It's when you get that wonderful recursion of pleasurable sensations each intensifying the experience for both of you.

It's certainly not the only way to get that connection--but if we're talking about a moment when a woman goes "Wow, that was my first!" with enthuiasm and stars in her eyes--then I think the orgasm while having intercourse beats out the loss of virginity (which is usually, "Ouch, that was my first!").

 

[SlickTony]

It must be left to we writers of erotic fiction to tell women what they feel, you can learn nothing from them.

Women don't have to be told what they feel. It could be that the feeling is so intense and profound that it takes a female writer of erotic fiction to describe it.

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=SlickTony]Women don't have to be told what they feel. It could be that the feeling is so intense and profound that it takes a female writer of erotic fiction to describe it.[/QUOTE]

~~~~


Perhaps, SlickTony, perhaps, perhaps, perhaps (from a film Taco Soup or something)

As a male writer, I can only surmise why a woman's breath quickens even as lips approach a willing mouth. I can only guess the feeling from the sensitive areas around the back of the neck and under the ear, I can only try to write the feeling when knees go weak upon arousal.

And although it can be any way you choose, it seems the male is the one who arouses the female and she responds as she does. a 'do'er' and a 'do'ee' as it were and again, it can be as you wish.

I have kissed a thousand lips (thas just this week) and nuzzled as many necks and while there are simularities, they are each unique.

What can I say?

amicus the often amorous

 

[minsue]

Ami, how can you expect women to do you a favor and describe for you their most intimate experiences when they know you're going to turn around and tell them they don't know what they're talking about?

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=minsue]Ami, how can you expect women to do you a favor and describe for you their most intimate experiences when they know you're going to turn around and tell them they don't know what they're talking about?[/QUOTE]

~~~

Hello Minsue and I can understand why you say that. It does seem like an unfeeling or uncaring or callous statement; it surely appears, even to the generous to be some sort of a contradiction in values.


I would like to say women in general, but then perhaps I soften that and say, 'some' women display certain characteristics of the gender that make them just downright adorable.

Women and girls in real life and as portrayed in literature and films display all degrees of spontaneity that men and boys just never have. That is not necessarily a statement of fact in absolute terms, but in my life experience, it is almost axiomatic, just the way women are and I love them for it.


When women perform ballet, or gymnastics or even synchronized swimming, they do so with a grace of movement that is art in motion.

Just the way some women walk or move their hands or smile or turn their head has a graceful artistic motion that is obvious and evident to all who see and heads turn, without even knowing why.

Let your own mind add in the thousand other things that makes a woman or a girl a very special thing in this world of ours and perhaps you will get a glimmer of what I see and feel about not just the physical body of a woman, but her mind, her thoughts and her emotions.

It is common knowledge that women are more sensitive to almost anything then men are, be it scent, sight or touch and those things, and the grace and the spontaniety, do not occur without a diminution of others things in the human makeup.

We used to 'know' all these things without even thinking until women began wearing pants, walking and talking like a man, behaving in a masculine fashion, adapting coarse behavior and attitude.

And all the things you don't want to hear and will not acknowledge, the PMS, the PMDD, the mood swings, the night sweats, ovulation when the ferromones spring forth to advertise to the nearest male that 'now' is the time, she is 'in heat'. When the female body comes alert and even more sensitive to stimulation and demands male attention.

Nature gives scant if any consideration to a woman's pleasure in the act of procreation. Nature provides sufficient lubrication upon arousal and that, along with swelling vulva's and enlarged vaginal tract, et cetera, is combined with less flow of blood to the brain and a diminished capacity for rational thought; all part of nature's devious plan.

Now if you and others must continue to diss me of my understand of human sexuality, know full well you do so only due to your lack of knowledge about the process, I will no longer let you think I am ignorant and callous towards the gentle sex, I know what I am talking about and you know I do.

About a half century of total equality between men and women has so diminished both masculine and feminine natural traits that I fear many really don't understand their own bodies or minds in a gender based sense. That, I find sad.

Conceiving and carrying a child to term is something only a woman can do and she can only do that if her body and her mind and her emotions contain that certain set of qualities that permit it. Qualities that are altogether different than a man's.


"...Ami, how can you expect women to do you a favor and describe for you their most intimate experiences when they know you're going to turn around and tell them they don't know what they're talking about..."

If you indentify as a 'favor', a continuing search for understanding on my part and you suggest withholding that information as a punishment, then you display precisely the mindset that you abhor.

I don't hate women, I am not anti-feminine, I do not think women are second class citizens; quite the opposite and perhaps one day you will realize that I respect, honor and cherish that which is feminine and only seek a better understanding. I have no political agenda, no philosophical bias and I didn't hate my mother and it wasn't a bad experience with a woman that makes me the way I am.

Basically the industrial revolution at roughly 1850, lit the fire for a great many changes in society and the world at large. One of those was the emancipation of women. I suspect you have some knowledge of the history of women and sex and child bearing and good and bad women, upper and lower class morals, prostitutes, the entire gamut; throughout all preceding societies and civilizations, the places that women occupied, how the were treated and viewed.

We live in a time totally unique to all that has gone before. The conflict in the middle east is not over oil, or even religion; it is over western treatment of women in society, it is over your new found freedom and what you have done and are doing with it.

So be sharp with me if you must and I sometimes deserve it, but at least acknowledge that the feminist world you so dearly support and advocate, is facing a critical crisis, world wide and it may change, you may lose all that has been gained and I think it behooves us, you and I, to attempt, at least attempt to comprehend the events that transpire and those that are about to.

Okay, off the soap box...bring in the elipses...so that if you have nothing rational to reply with...you can always chide me for those.


amicus the intolerable


...

 

[minsue]

I'm not going to argue gender roles or anything of the like with you, ami. We've covered that road and no good will come of it.

When someone asks for information to better their writing, I consider it a favor. Simple as that.

In this case, I do not withhold information as some sort of punitive thing. I simply do not see the point in describing my experiences since you have already made up your mind about women, the female body, and female experiences. Anything that doesn't mesh with your mindset, you disregard and tell us (rather condescendingly) that we just don't know ourselves and our bodies, but it's not our fault, we're just women.

What's the point?

 

[amicus]

From your perspective, there is no point.

Some girl singer did a song "You Say" which I rather like.

The only answer to you would be, "Yes, Dear" and I would go back to reading my newspaper.

Since you always have the greater woman's intuition and 'you' are always right, then if we are to share abodes and life's then that would have to be my answer, 'Yes, Dear."

But we don't live together and we ain't gonna. So I don't have to say, "Yes, Dear." but can point out the feminine ploy you use again to 'try' to win a point, you just take your panties and go home.

bye...


amicus...(amicus is a bad bad man)

 

[Vermilion]

From your perspective, there is no point.

Some girl singer did a song "You Say" which I rather like.

The only answer to you would be, "Yes, Dear" and I would go back to reading my newspaper.

Since you always have the greater woman's intuition and 'you' are always right, then if we are to share abodes and life's then that would have to be my answer, 'Yes, Dear."

But we don't live together and we ain't gonna. So I don't have to say, "Yes, Dear." but can point out the feminine ploy you use again to 'try' to win a point, you just take your panties and go home.

bye...


amicus...(amicus is a bad bad man)

OK, you're starting to piss me off now. After I and others went to the trouble to try and help you improve your understanding for your writing (presumably) you now feel it's ok to dismiss anything that Minsue says that disagrees with you. It says a lot that you're not even willing to rationally debate the points raised, but instead resort to some outdated, outmoded steretyping and dismissive sexism. I don't think Minsue has done anything to deserve those comments and I think that you ought to apologise.
V

 

[minsue]

From your perspective, there is no point.

Some girl singer did a song "You Say" which I rather like.

The only answer to you would be, "Yes, Dear" and I would go back to reading my newspaper.

Since you always have the greater woman's intuition and 'you' are always right, then if we are to share abodes and life's then that would have to be my answer, 'Yes, Dear."

But we don't live together and we ain't gonna. So I don't have to say, "Yes, Dear." but can point out the feminine ploy you use again to 'try' to win a point, you just take your panties and go home.

bye...


amicus...(amicus is a bad bad man)

There is no ploy. There is no great feminine conspiracy. This isn't about being right.

I replied to this thread and explained why I won't be telling you personal details because I don't want you to think you aren't getting many replies simply because people don't like your politics. This isn't about politics. This is about respect, plain and simple. To tell someone they need a porn writer to tell them how they feel is unbelievably arrogant and disrespectful.

I do wonder sometimes if you even realize you are doing it.

 

[minsue]

OK, you're starting to piss me off now. After I and others went to the trouble to try and help you improve your understanding for your writing (presumably) you now feel it's ok to dismiss anything that Minsue says that disagrees with you. It says a lot that you're not even willing to rationally debate the points raised, but instead resort to some outdated, outmoded steretyping and dismissive sexism. I don't think Minsue has done anything to deserve those comments and I think that you ought to apologise.
V

Thank you, V. There's a history, there, between dear Ami and many of the women on this board (and presumably many other boards). It's not worth getting angry, if you can help it.

 

[Vermilion]

Thank you, V. There's a history, there, between dear Ami and many of the women on this board (and presumably many other boards). It's not worth getting angry, if you can help it.

gee, I wonder why.
Not really angry, just bemused - why ask if we don't know what we're talking about? <shrugs>
V

 

[amicus]

Ah,Vermillion, with the pretty red shoes, how lovely. Did you know that Chinese women had their feet bound tightly as children to keep them from growing?

An old saying, 'Better to be pissed off than pissed on..." Since you have turned this into a pissing contest, along with Minsue and seem to wanna pick a fight with poor ole ami, we then I guess you can.

If anyone should feel ignored, it should be me, as almost everything I wrote was ignored and only the suggestion that in the throes of orgasm, one, male or female, might not be able to rationally describe the event as the oxygen deprived brain literally shuts down, sometimes even loses consciousness at such moments.

There are those among us, not saying I am one, who even doubt that there is such a thing as a female orgasm. That it is just since men obviously reach a blatant climax, then women ought not to be left out.

And so they pretend, fake the orgasm. Not a new thing in the world, people pretend all the time, don't they?

All these pussified men, like the one I quoted from another board, "Oh, Gee, baby was it good for you, tell me what you felt when it happened..."

Well, most likely she was feeling so much and didn't give a damn why, she just wanted that physical and emotional itch to be scratched.

And the longer the foreplay, the more aroused she became, the less able to think and reason, as nature intended, and then the rush to fertilization begins.

Now there are women for hire, not the two bucks a throw anymore, what with inflation, but with adequate lucre, will indeed, rise to the occasion and scream and moan. You see, I know just way too much to be intimidated by feminist rhetoric and your getting in my face may even awaken whats left of the male in some men who might, oh, shit, could he really be right they're fakin it all!??!!?>?

So be nice lil lady, in pokin the ole bear, cuz he does on occasion get up and growl.

There is some humor to be found in that but I doubt you will appreciate it.


amicus...

 

[minsue]

why ask if we don't know what we're talking about?

Exactly.

 

[amicus]

There was a girl named Pamela, in college, a teachers college, where I was preparing for my certificate, she was an MFA candidate. A lovely young woman, but just not my type, nor I, hers, be we bespoke often of mutual woes of the opposite sex.

She once even offered herself, just to see what 'I' would be like...I said no.

She told me once that she counted the freckles on her arm while on her back, under a guy, pumping away, hoping it would soon end.


It was not perhaps at that moment but soon after, that an accumulation of things, began to coalesce in my mind concerning the nature of the female in such a way as I had never questioned before.

So Minsue's comments of the herd of cows gathering in mutual defense should come as no surprise to anyone. And yes, Vermillion you should join the herd, but I suggest you remove the red shoes first.

And I take back not a word or a thought about the beauty and grace of a woman, nor do I withdraw one iota of warning for the slicing dicing tongue of a woman scorned or defeated in an argument.

Since I am not susceptible to the allure from a distance, what other weapons do they have?

amicus...

 

[minsue]

Psssst! Ami..... calling us cows isn't the best way to get women to help you, either *g*

 

[amicus]

*Pssst, Min, I thought about clucking hens in a fence also, would that suit you better while hiding from the cock of the roost, rather than a bull on the loose?

ahem


ami

 

[minsue]

*Pssst, Min, I thought about clucking hens in a fence also, would that suit you better while hiding from the cock of the roost, rather than a bull on the loose?

ahem


ami

Oh, there's definitely bull around this here thread...