Violent rhetoric

[amicus]

Ah...our cloud warrior makes her appearance...

Is this the map to which you refer?

http://boortz.com/images/2011/01/palin%20map_o.jpg

http://boortz.com/images/2011/01/surveyor's%20mark_l.jpg

Are you an expert in cartography? Crosshairs are placed on people. Map symbols are placed on maps.

Let us take a look at a few maps produced by the left...

http://boortz.com/images/2011/01/dem%20targeting%20strategy_l.jpg

Hmmm....

http://boortz.com/images/2011/01/dccc%20map_o.jpg

Now whose making someone a TARGET? Or are they just telling us where the new Target stores are opening this year???

~~~

YO, Zeb, way to go...I wanted to Post those same images to, heh, refudiate the lefties....but my skills ain't up to it.....thankee, Lad!

ami

 

[Handley_Page]

Violent rhetoric-- does it lead to violence (assaults, murders). Is it to be avoided.?​

In the mind of some who are excessively passionate about a subject - Yes
and to the writer:
Preferably.

 

[sr71plt]

I wanted to Post those same images to, heh, refudiate the lefties....but my skills ain't up to it.....thankee, Lad!

ami

I quite agree that your skills aren't up to "refudiating" much of anything. Certainly doesn't stop you from ranting at great, often irrelevant lengths, though, does it?

 

[xssve]

Of course Pubs don't think their irresponsible sexist, racist, fascist, hysteria is incites violence, they believe THE LAW IS THE LAW, unless you happens to be Tom DeLay, then it's "persecution".

It's surprising and sad that they're really that far gone, fucking whiny little bitches.

 

[xssve]

Everybody knows it's all the sex on tv, not your parents telling you all gays should die - that, Jesus would approve of.

 

[cloudy]

If you lived in the States, were able to sustain a thought, and weren't plugging an agenda, I think you'd have no trouble making the connections.

This was uncalled for.

(If I interpreted what you said wrong, I apologize, but Og is one of the clearer thinkers here)

 

[sr71plt]

This was uncalled for.

(If I interpreted what you said wrong, I apologize, but Og is one of the clearer thinkers here)

But he doesn't live in the States. So, what's the misinterpretation? I'm saying if he did, he'd be so steeped in the issue he'd surely see the connection.

And even if he posted something I disagreed with, I'd feel free to comment. I don't play team sports here.

 

[xssve]

Og, it doesn't take that much to tip the scales, Are the Germans less civilized than anybody else? Rhetoric like this is preemptive justification, some nut jobs will always jump the gun, the rest will wait until they think they can get away with it.

 

[lovecraft68]

Violent rhetoric-- does it lead to violence (assaults, murders). Is it to be avoided.?

We are talking of violent metaphor, similies and images; linking various events to murders and deaths, and various conflicts to bloody battles and wars. Further, metaphors sometimes link human opponents to disgusting animals (rats), which raises implications as to extermination (metaphorical or actual).


That's a large order, curbing violent talk. To what end?

Consider religious texts and depictions: Xians are exhorted to
"Put on the armor of God and ...[take] the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit" [Eph 6:11-17]

Buddhist and Hindu art frequently show violent acts. The gods' or goddesses' feet tread people underneath. Skulls are featured.

wrathful deities
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=...y&start=36&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&ndsp=18&tbs=isch:1


The American Battle Hymn of the Republic says,

"he [Lord] hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword, His Truth is marching on."

The Marsellaise speaks of fighting tyranny "until the blood overflows our furrows." (abreuve nos sillons).


Charles Sumner, the abollitionist senator, in 1856 delivered a speech "the crime of Kansas" with sharp invective, and suggested that Kansans were being oppressed by pro slavery persons who wanted to disarm them, and deprive them of Second Amendment rights.

Indeed, advocates of non violence have often used violent imagery, e.g., Jesus said, "if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out".

His The parable [of the tares] is as follows: [material from wikipedia, also in KJV Bible, Matthew 13:24]

He set another parable before them, saying, "The Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while people slept, his enemy came and sowed darnel weeds[tares, weeds] also among the wheat, and went away. But when the blade sprang up and brought forth fruit, then the darnel weeds appeared also. The servants of the householder came and said to him, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where did this darnel come from?'

"He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.'

"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and gather them up?'

"But he said, 'No, lest perhaps while you gather up the darnel weeds, you root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest time I will tell the reapers, "First, gather up the darnel weeds, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"– Matthew 13:24-30, World English Bible

The words translated "darnel weeds" ("tares" in the King James Version) is ζιζάνια (zizania), plural of ζιζάνιον (zizanion). This word is thought to mean darnel (Lolium temulentum),[2][3] a ryegrass which looks much like wheat in its early stages of growth.[4] Roman law prohibited sowing darnel among the wheat of an enemy,[4][5] suggesting that the scenario presented here is realistic.[6]

[edit] InterpretationAn eschatological interpretation[6] is provided by Jesus in verses Matthew 13:36-43 of the chapter:


Then Jesus sent the multitudes away, and went into the house. His disciples came to him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the darnel weeds of the field."

[...]B] The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather out of his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and those who do iniquity, and will cast them into the furnace of fire.[/B] There will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

====

Needless to say, atheists such as Sade and Nietzsche have had recourse to violent imagery and metaphor

from Nietzsche's Zarathustra, (trans. W. Kaufmann), p1 s17 ON THE WAY OF THE CREATOR


Today you are still suffering from the many, being one: today your courage and your hopes are still whole. But the time will come when solitude will make you weary, when your pride will double up and your courage gnash its teeth. And you will cry, "I am alone!" The time will come when that which seems high to you will no longer be in sight, and that which seems low will be all-too-near; even what seems sublime to you will frighten you like a ghost. And you will cry, "All is false!"

There are feelings which want to kill the lonely; and if they do not succeed, well, then they themselves must die. But are you capable of this - to be a murderer? ===

Nietzsche also spoke of the Overman or Superman as shaping his own values, and rising above those of the herd.

Murderer Nathan Leopold wrote to his lover, Loeb,

"A superman ... is, on account of certain superior qualities inherent in him, exempted from the ordinary laws which govern men. He is not liable for anything he may do."[3] [from wiki]


===
Final Point: Given the violence of imagery in hundreds of sources, is there any way argue that the actions of a particular crazy person are because he been exposed to one of the above "sources." Leopold spoke of Nietzsche. [Added: Was N responsible? No.]
Supposing Loughner spoke of Sarah Palin's advice "Don't retreat, reload." Is she then responsible? [Added: No.]

[Added: The larger point, for all who write porn and erotica depicting illegal or immoral acts, is whether such writers are responsible for the one person in a thousand who decides to act out the depiction, with possible nasty consequences, such as rape, molestation,etc. Again, I'd say the answer is 'no', as was the case with Goethe's, Sorrows of Young Werther, and the young persons' suicides that followed.]

This is all a cop out. Another example of trying to take the blame away from a person when it really lies upon him. This is the same theory that years ago led people to sue Ozzy Osbourne because a kid killed himself after listening to suicide solution. Bottom line is that although something can influence a person to a degree it is ultimately the person who makes the choice. I am sick and tired of politically correct weak willed assholes blaming everything for their problems. That song made my son kill himself. Well mom and dad were you watching your kid? The movie the Matrix caused Columbine Mom and dad where were you when your kid was ordering gun parts on the net? Sarah Palin says reload and she is now responsible for a shooting oh please. Anyone screwy enough to do this shit was going to do it anyways. What's next? I tell someone to go fuck himself and he blames me when he's caught masturbating. Stop looking for a cause and find a solution oh wait there is one it's called discipline.

 

[xssve]

And advocating violence instead of political process is highly undisciplined, which is what is being said.

Like it or not peer pressure and mob dynamics leads people to act in ways they would not ordinarily consider, or at least fear being caught at - "safety in numbers", among other things.

To quote TheRaptorJesus: Between the silence and the motion lies the impulse.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Wow aren't you informed! Holy shit, no kidding? And all this time I thought he was an expert map maker, blimey doll thanks for that info. God I don't know how I could have made such a fucked up mistake! Duh!

Everyone else knows how you made such a fucked up mistake. Because you wanted to. Duh.

YO, Zeb, way to go...I wanted to Post those same images to, heh, refudiate the lefties....but my skills ain't up to it.....thankee, Lad!

Start by going to your choice of a zillion right-wingnut opinion sites to find the images.

Let me know when you've accomplished that... I'll wait...

 

[xssve]

http://www.bradblog.com/Images/JFK_WantedForTreason_med.jpg

Click on image for source.

And:

"You need to riot": Right-wing uses violent rhetoric

In the wake of reported threats on Democratic officials due to their health care votes, Media Matters for America takes a look back at the right-wing media's history of violent rhetoric.

Hitler was just a housepainter, Beck hosts a show on national network, he is, in the parlance, an "authority figure".

 

[amicus]

Supposing Loughner spoke of Sarah Palin's advice "Don't retreat, reload." Is she then responsible?
~~~

amiCheap shot, Pure, beneath you.

===
ami, when i take the trouble to agree with a point of his, once a year,
doesn't read the post, but focuses on one sentence.

he thinks "supposing" means "I propose it's a fact that...", and fails to see the implied answer to the question--*even assuming [ftsoa] direct contact with SP's words*-- about causality and responsibility of Mama Grizzly is "No, not responsibile."

next time i'll direct my urge to argue to a more congenial collocutor, such as a lamp post.

~~~~

Actually, Pure, reading your Post I was predisposed to compliment you on your educated verbosity and historicity...until I ran across the jab at Palin, that curdled my warm milk, so to speak...(actually a Guiness)

Upon re-reading and musing on your word, collocutor, I of course did a search as the word in not in my vocabulary...nor does it 'Google'; all the dictionaries say there ain't no such thing...but wait! I dug a little deeper, and right next to, 'refudiate', lo and behold:

"symposium discussion participant: collocuter, interlocutor discussion to arrive at a truth: dialectic discussion, expose to public: ventilate discussion ..."

Almost fifty years ago now, I have related this before, and people do have a penchant for chucking books at me...this time in a classroom during a 400 level Abnormal Psychology lecture, this University of Maryland idiot spoke with certainty that 'one should never love someone or something to the degree that the loss of that person or object, would cause pain..'

Of course, being even more outspoken as a fearless young man, I stood and told him he was an asshole, and that passion and love are the essence of man, and that to not risk pain by pursuing happiness, was a sure route to mental disorder.

I ducked the book.

You know where this is going, but for the more slow witted usual suspects: violence is inherent in man as we will naturally go to any length to protect ourselves and those we love. Thus, a young man's education always includes competition and sports and 'vision quests' and what not, to prepare the young male to protect and defend those things he finds important to his life.

'When good men do nothing...(I should have the author of that in mind), then evil succeeds..."

If everyone is running around with a club in their hand, it is prudent to carry a club/knife/spear, bow & arrow/gun...just to let others know you are prepared. A big sign on your door, "Occupant has an Ouzi", is a better deterrent to violence than you may think.



Cheerio, old chum...

der Amicus

 

[xssve]

"Occupant has an Ouzi" - did you mean Uzi or Ouzo? In your case, I suspect the latter, lotta big talk from a little man.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Everyone else knows how you made such a fucked up mistake. Because you wanted to. Duh.
Start by going to your choice of a zillion right-wingnut opinion sites to find the images.

Let me know when you've accomplished that... I'll wait...

First, I didn't make a mistake...I just don't get the connection that the left is puking all over the net and the airwaves. SPalin didn't drive to the idiots house, put a gun to his head as he drove to the event. She didn't shove his sorry ass into the crowd and make him pull the trigger. She wasn't there, he was. Why he did it, we have no clue, but it was him that did it on his own without help. And if you can't see that, then maybe we should have you on a suicide/murder watch.

 

[Stella_Omega]

First, I didn't make a mistake...I just don't get the connection that the left is puking all over the net and the airwaves. SPalin didn't drive to the idiots house, put a gun to his head as he drove to the event. She didn't shove his sorry ass into the crowd and make him pull the trigger. She wasn't there, he was. Why he did it, we have no clue, but it was him that did it on his own without help. And if you can't see that, then maybe we should have you on a suicide/murder watch.

Oh! So that's what Are you an expert in cartography? Crosshairs are placed on people. Map symbols are placed on maps. means. I thought you were quoting an expert in cartography-- had no idea you were actually talking about the murderer.

 

[sr71plt]

I just don't get the connection

That doesn't surprise me a bit.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Oh! So that's what Are you an expert in cartography? Crosshairs are placed on people. Map symbols are placed on maps. means. I thought you were quoting an expert in cartography-- had no idea you were actually talking about the murderer.

Nice twist...does everyone see how she diverts attention way from herself back to me by, not only misquoting what she thinks I said but also misunderstanding what I actually said. Boy we are being treated tonight. I tell you.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

That doesn't surprise me a bit.

Hey dickless wonder stfu! From now on when I want your opinion I'll have Stella give it to you. Fuckwad.

 

[sr71plt]

Hey dickless wonder stfu! From now on when I want your opinion I'll have Stella give it to you. Fuckwad.

You seem to be losing it (again), Zeb.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Nice twist...does everyone see how she diverts attention way from herself back to me by, not only misquoting what she thinks I said but also misunderstanding what I actually said. Boy we are being treated tonight. I tell you.

Why don't you explain now, what, exactly, you meant?

You seem to be losing it (again), Zeb.

Yeah, it really seems that way.

 

[TE999]

I believe this article was cited earlier, but here's a link to it anyway.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...ermath-of-shooting-of-arizona-s-giffords.html

 

[DeeZire]

4. http://nolabels.org/blog/statement-no-labels/ (Not right, not left, forward)

While I can't quite figure out what these folks do, their motives are admirable. In a nutshell, they're suggesting that when we demonize our political opponents, it makes compromising with them virtually impossible. Without compromise, nothing gets done and the political process becomes dysfunctional. When that happens, guess who suffers? We do.

Hopefully, public outcry over the Tucson shootings will facilitate a temporary lull in violent rhetoric. Our survival as a democracy depends on us making that temporary lull permanent.

 

[Pure]

history note; note to ami

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/01/10/assassins-and-american-history/violence-in-the-1930s

Violence in the 1930's

Updated January 10, 2011, 08:23 PM

[[Catherine McNicol Stock is chairman of the history department and director of the American Studies Program at Connecticut College. She is the author of “Rural Radicals: From Bacon’s Rebellion to the Oklahoma City Bombing.”]]

Times of extreme economic and social dislocation create a landscape ripe for political extremism -- expressed in both words and deeds. The Great Depression was one of those times, of course, and can still be instructive today.

The "shoot the banker" cry in the Depression did not lead to mass killings but to vicious acts like tarring and feathering.

Faced with the worst economic downturn in history, many local politicians turned the heat up on their rhetoric--particularly in the countryside. For example, the governor of North Dakota, William Langer, a staunch opponent of farm foreclosures, told followers to "shoot the Banker. Treat him like a chicken thief."


That did not mean that farmers all over the northern Plains shot their local bankers. But violence in the impoverished countryside did occur, including the tarring and feathering of a local judge. Across the region, farm leaders also declared a "farm holiday" and local followers attack the men in their communities who chose not to participate.

The long-term loss of employment, land and homes in the 1930s made many in Washington fearful of violence on the left and the right.
======================

note to ami

amiyour word, collocutor, I of course did a search as the word in not in my vocabulary...nor does it 'Google'; all the dictionaries say there ain't no such thing.

it must not have been your day, ami. misreading, then misgoogling
(new word!).

actually if you google by the standard procedure, "collocutor define", you instanty get 16,000 hits and a definition in the first entry. various examples on p. 10.

indeed, if you simply google "collocutor", you get 15,000 hits and definitions in the first citations, as well.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

A little quiz:

1. Who started the current practice of attending political rallies with loaded gun?
(a) Right-wingers (b) Left-wingers

2. Why do people bring loaded weapons to political rallies?
(a) They're proud of their 2nd amendment rights and like to take their guns everywhere.
(b) They're sending a subtle message that if they don't like what they hear, they're fully ready to use these guns.
(c) You never know when some Liberal might try to hold you up so they want to be prepared.

3. At what candidate's rally during the 2008 campaign was the candidate castigating Obama when someone in the crowd yelled out, "Kill him!"
(a) Joe Biden's (b) John McCain's (c) Sarah Palin's (d) Lynden LaRouche's

4. In regards to Q 3. above, what was the speaker's response to this suggestion that Obama be killed?
(a) Shouter was ejected from hall (b) Shouter was arrested by police.
(c) Candidate denounced violence and/or physical intimidation as a political tool.
(d) Candidate smiled weakly and did nothing.

5. In the last 30 years, how many instances can you name of firearm attacks on the US public &/or Conservatives by Liberals?

6. In the last 30 years, how many instances can you name of firearm attacks on the US public &/or Liberals by a Conservative?