Vampires

[elsol]

Little Goth Boy REALLY thinks he's a vampire.

The Immaculate Conception... the Garden of Eden... Creatonism, oh wait I'm sorry, 'Intelligent Design'.

*sigh*

If believing that he's a really a vampire... cool... fairly harmless considering that some people believe that Armageddon is right around the corner and are actually working to bring it about.

You know what I call it...

Survival of the Fittest... Little Goth Boy's fragile mind can't really survive in the real world. Awesome! Less competition for what I want!

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[sweetnpetite]

Whatever it takes.

I can never decide if i love you or hate you

 

[yui]

I can never decide if i love you or hate you

I can never decide what it is with you two, either.

 

[elsol]

I can never decide if i love you or hate you

Hate him... it's harder to be disappointed when you hate someone.

My preffered stance is to believe that everyone is a figment of my imagination... and it's really MY fault some of you are so fucked up!

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[sweetnpetite]

And precisely like sweetnpetite, who is also delusional.

And a big wet salty mermaid kiss for saying so!

 

[sweetnpetite]

I can never decide what it is with you two, either.

I figure we're the Lit equivelent of Simeon and Paula

 

[amicus]

To Joe for the thread and to SNP for the continuity and clarity...in part...

There are others that 'drink the blood and eat the flesh' of others, namely Catholics...I wondered that no one made the connection.

Sweets did, minimally, with connecting those divorced from reality, be it fantasy or religion, one and the same.

Someone, perhaps Joe or Sweets, or both, had the audacity to use the word, 'reality' in an absolute sense, geez, I thought only I was bold enough to do that.

May I offer that all the dillusional ills you mention stem from that 'belief' in heaven and hell, in demons and angels and the underworld. That facet of man's mind that tends to faith and belief rather than reason and logic.

When once before I offered that 'religion' is the greatest evil mankind has ever faced, I was not pulling your joystick. It is the ultimate assault on the mind of man. Aside from all the pervented S&M dialogue so casually tossed off, (there should be your metre,Joe, in Psych.)

As long as popular belief includes such things as rising from the dead, (Easter)(Christ the Vampire) drinking human blood (Catholic ritual); as long as these aboriginal beliefs abound, there will be pervented offshoots.

So what else is new?

By the way, my novel, The Chief, will be published soon as 'The First Chief, Ahjeed' it is now posted on Lit, but I will delete it before publication.

You might also search ISBN 1413731007 'Surprises of Love' a collection of 'Romantica' short stories that were posted on Lit before publication.

On the road again....

amicus...

 

[sweetnpetite]

Someone, perhaps Joe or Sweets, or both, had the audacity to use the word, 'reality' in an absolute sense, geez, I thought only I was bold enough to do that....

It was definatly Joe. I noticed too but just didn't adress it.

When once before I offered that 'religion' is the greatest evil mankind has ever faced, I was not pulling your joystick.
amicus...

You'r talking to Joe here right? Now that would be something worth seeing! [sory, couldn't resist]

 

[gauchecritic]

Way to plug amico.

Whatever you believe, whatever you follow puts you above all others. Seems to me that if you're not a vampire then you would be wiccan, if not that then a black witch, if not that then a trecky if not that then religious. Not being anything also puts you above everyone else.

It's all about bending people to your will. Even being a slave means that you have a certain power over your master. If not for you then they would have nothing to be master over.

Which all stems from the fact that from birth everything in the world (that which you can perceive) is there for your benefit.

Generally, until you reach your twenties (maybe later, maybe earlier) you are immortal. Being immortal isn't merely belief, it's a simple statement of truth.

So, given those two states is it any wonder at all that people strive to prove to themselves that they are unique. Their manifestation of uniqueness takes many forms and quite often they are seized by trends. A group of like thinking people which serve one purpose alone, to bolster their own individualism.

So now you are surrounded by people who believe you. They have succumbed to your will.

It doesn't really matter what sort of group they are, everyone belongs somewhere, a very small percentage of that group will not have 'grown out' of their fundamental beliefs of uniqueness.

This is what power seeking is all about. Not the power itself but being able to demonstrate that power.

The people that Joe 'fears' are merely the visible ones.

 

[Liar]

Too busy to actually dive into this thread, but it's been an interresting read.

Just throwing this in as flame-bait:

I am disturbed when people believe stupid things.

Like, the existance of God?

Just saying that because one thinks it is stupid, that doesn't make it so. From an atheists point of view, every belief is delusional. From a believers point of view, every other belief is delusional.

I know a vampire cult here where I live. They don't apply to all the regular vampire cliché parameters, but they believe that they gain vitality and some kind of life force from drinking human blood. Which they buy from donors by paying much more than the hospitals. It's even fully legal afaik.

The response when I tried to explain that that was up the walls nutition-wise (and potentionally dangerous) was just that "Yeah of course, but that only applys to humans." The the face of that reasoning, my empiric evidence didn't to much to change their beliefs.

 

[English Lady]

Amicus...When it comes down to it, Catholics eat bread and drink wine..I know there is the whole it actually DOES transform into the blood and the body but that is still a different issue from drinking the blood of a living human being, Jesus is eternal, I don't think blood loss is too much of an issue for him


Liar...maybe it's an extreme of belief thing. Joe said he has no problem with folks who like the whole vampire roll play thing but it's when it is so extreme it disturbs him. Religion is the same (if you look at it that way) all well and good till you get all extreme and start blowing folk up for the sake of your beliefs.

Theres probably lots of flaws in there, but the idea came to me before as I was serving lunch...so I thought I'd add it into the mix

 

[dr_mabeuse]

To Joe for the thread and to SNP for the continuity and clarity...in part...

There are others that 'drink the blood and eat the flesh' of others, namely Catholics...I wondered that no one made the connection.

Oh fuck! Amicus made me laugh with him! Someone get the smelling salts!

Really, I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, I know how annoying these poseurs can be. You really want to grab them and slap them.

On the other hand, my hackles instinctively rise whenever anyone tries to tell another human being what he can and can't be. I'm always rooting for the eccentric and the person whose sense of reality is beyond what we consider normal. Maybe these vampires can't climb up walls or turn into bats, but I love them for trying, and I'm always hoping that one day one of them will succeed..

That vampress [her spelling, BTW] I knew used to drive me batty (PI) because I would insist that she wasn't a real vampire: she couldn't transmogrify or live forever and all that. But she maintained most of that was just Hollywood nonsense, and to her a vampire was simply someone who drank human blood for pleasure or nutritional reasons. By her definition she was indeed a vampire. She was quite convinced that a biannual shot of blood was essential to her health, and in fact when I met her she was overdue and was always complaining of feeling sick and weak. Who was I to argue?.

I never met her in RL, but from what she told me it seemed that she did try and live the lifestyle: the gothic clothes, dark apartment, trying to stay indoors during the day. Like most people, she was transforming her life as much as she could into a reflection of who she felt she was. She was making art out of her life. I can't fault her for that either.

Had she climbed up on the roof of her building and tried to fly away, I'd say yeah, her beliefs are rather dysfunctional. But as an expression of how she felt in relation to the world, I don't see her identify as a vampire any sillier or out of touch than the identity of those who consider themselves artists or athletes or factory workers or even logicians.

Yeah, we may consider their behaviors pretentious, but so is the behavior of someone who sets limits on the ways that other people are allowed to behave. It assumes that their way is the only correct way.

---dr.M.

 

[Liar]

Liar...maybe it's an extreme of belief thing. Joe said he has no problem with folks who like the whole vampire roll play thing but it's when it is so extreme it disturbs him. Religion is the same (if you look at it that way) all well and good till you get all extreme and start blowing folk up for the sake of your beliefs.

Theres probably lots of flaws in there, but the idea came to me before as I was serving lunch...so I thought I'd add it into the mix

Fing is, the whole "I'm a vampire" thing isn't really very extreme at all in the cases I've seen of it. It's just a peculiar steak of those individuals' personlaities. They don't hurt nobody, they live in and contribute to society with the rest of is, abide by it's rules and regulations, and they don't try to impose their views and beliefs on anyone else. The only difference is that they believe they are a different spieces walking this earth in symbiosis with us humans.

I think they're nuts. But that doesn't make them extreme. I think for instance creationism, scientology and lots of aspects of plain 'ol catholisism to be equally nuts and extreme (or non-extreme, as it were). If you look at it from a certain perspective (not nessecarily mine though), catholics drinking symbolic blood is even more out there than "vampires" drinking the real deal.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Thing is, I think there is a fundamentally important difference between the religious practices mentioned and the "I'm really a vampire" thing.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Just out of curiosity, what are the various Christian denominations' views on the existence of the devil these days? Is he in or out?

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

In or out?

 

[English Lady]

In and out and shaking it all about. Least thats what I last heard anyways..

What are you getting at Dr M love?

 

[sweetnpetite]

Oh fuck! Amicus made me laugh with him! Someone get the smelling salts!

Really, I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, I know how annoying these poseurs can be. You really want to grab them and slap them.

On the other hand, my hackles instinctively rise whenever anyone tries to tell another human being what he can and can't be. I'm always rooting for the eccentric and the person whose sense of reality is beyond what we consider normal. Maybe these vampires can't climb up walls or turn into bats, but I love them for trying, and I'm always hoping that one day one of them will succeed..

That vampress [her spelling, BTW] I knew used to drive me batty (PI) because I would insist that she wasn't a real vampire: she couldn't transmogrify or live forever and all that. But she maintained most of that was just Hollywood nonsense, and to her a vampire was simply someone who drank human blood for pleasure or nutritional reasons. By her definition she was indeed a vampire. She was quite convinced that a biannual shot of blood was essential to her health, and in fact when I met her she was overdue and was always complaining of feeling sick and weak. Who was I to argue?.

I never met her in RL, but from what she told me it seemed that she did try and live the lifestyle: the gothic clothes, dark apartment, trying to stay indoors during the day. Like most people, she was transforming her life as much as she could into a reflection of who she felt she was. She was making art out of her life. I can't fault her for that either.

Had she climbed up on the roof of her building and tried to fly away, I'd say yeah, her beliefs are rather dysfunctional. But as an expression of how she felt in relation to the world, I don't see her identify as a vampire any sillier or out of touch than the identity of those who consider themselves artists or athletes or factory workers or even logicians.

Yeah, we may consider their behaviors pretentious, but so is the behavior of someone who sets limits on the ways that other people are allowed to behave. It assumes that their way is the only correct way.

---dr.M.

I love you man!

--but you're not getting my Bud Light

 

[sweetnpetite]

Thing is, I think there is a fundamentally important difference between the religious practices mentioned and the "I'm really a vampire" thing.

But you are also applying *your* definition of what 'really makes a vampire'- rather than accepting the definition of the person who defines themself that way. That's sort of like assuming someone who 'claims' to be a christian holds all the same beliefs that *you* think a real christian believes. [for example: that the bible is infalable, that homosexuality is immoral, that tithing is essential for and will lead to prosperity, that the man should be the head of the household, that women shouldn't preach...] In order to judge weather or not they are a 'real' christian, you have to ask *them* what the definition of the word is for them.

I used to always say I was a mermaid. Now, a mermaid is half human female and half fish. I am human female and my astrological sign is pisces the fish. I feel more at home in the water than anywear else. I can't breath underwater, I don't have gills or seewead for hair, ect. However, I met my own criteria for a mermaid in the way that I used it. I think that there is a certain validity to expanding word usage this way. For example, a computer programer might consider himself to be a 'computer wiz' or 'computer wizard' [same thing] would you argue that he isn't a wizard because a wizard is a, b and c and he is none of these. There is a certain fluidity of the language- you see it all the time if you'r looking for it. We call the pictures by our name 'avatars' What is an avatar? An avatar is an incarnation of a diety. So how pretensious is it for us all to call our little symbols 'avatar'? Does it mean we are dillusional? We also call the things on our computer screen 'buttons' but there are no actual buttons, we talk about mail boxes and folders and desktops and all of these 'real world' words to describe things that are meerly *ideas*- electic impulses on a screen. To someone who doesn't understand computers- we are all dillusional and probably dangerously so

Words meanings expand with usage. Actual usage usually outpaces dictionary definition. *After* a word gets used and becomes 'acceptable usage' by the dictionary people, it gets added in- not the other way around.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

But you are also applying *your* definition of what 'really makes a vampire'- rather than accepting the definition of the person who defines themself that way. That's sort of like assuming someone who 'claims' to be a christian holds all the same beliefs that *you* think a real christian believes. [for example: that the bible is infalable, that homosexuality is immoral, that tithing is essential for and will lead to prosperity, that the man should be the head of the household, that women shouldn't preach...] In order to judge weather or not they are a 'real' christian, you have to ask *them* what the definition of the word is for them.

I used to always say I was a mermaid. Now, a mermaid is half human female and half fish. I am human female and my astrological sign is pisces the fish. I feel more at home in the water than anywear else. I can't breath underwater, I don't have gills or seewead for hair, ect. However, I met my own criteria for a mermaid in the way that I used it. I think that there is a certain validity to expanding word usage this way. For example, a computer programer might consider himself to be a 'computer wiz' or 'computer wizard' [same thing] would you argue that he isn't a wizard because a wizard is a, b and c and he is none of these. There is a certain fluidity of the language- you see it all the time if you'r looking for it. We call the pictures by our name 'avatars' What is an avatar? An avatar is an incarnation of a diety. So how pretensious is it for us all to call our little symbols 'avatar'? Does it mean we are dillusional? We also call the things on our computer screen 'buttons' but there are no actual buttons, we talk about mail boxes and folders and desktops and all of these 'real world' words to describe things that are meerly *ideas*- electic impulses on a screen. To someone who doesn't understand computers- we are all dillusional and probably dangerously so

Words meanings expand with usage. Actual usage usually outpaces dictionary definition. *After* a word gets used and becomes 'acceptable usage' by the dictionary people, it gets added in- not the other way around.

So, there would be absolutely nothing wrong with me saying I'm superior to you--because, hey, "superior" can mean just what I want it to mean? Word meanings expand with usage, and maybe I mean "superior" to mean taller or something benign. For that matter I could call you a "bitch" or a "whore", but because I mean those words to be something entirely subjective to what I'm thinking--I could be using them to mean "someone who confronts" and "someone who likes sex". I could call myself a king, a god, a messiah; I could call you a peasant, an insect, or a failure as a human being... because words mean different things. And how dare people say I'd be wrong in my using of those words or how dare they argue that I am not those things or they are not those things... because it's all about how I use the word.

Heh. No.

No... no, I can't get behind the "people use words how they want and that's just dandy" train of thought. And I'm more or less convinced that given the proper situation, most people don't either. We can preach the virtues of how its adorable for someone to refer to themselves as a "earth spirit pixie" or how--in the name of tolerance and understanding--it is fine for someone to propose themselves as a "real vampire", and find it abhorrant when a corporate mogul refers to himself as a "god amongst men" or Bush refers to himself as "the hand of God".

I think... and correct me if I'm wrong here... I think we're biasing ourselves in favor of the geeky, the outcast, the "alternative". Because while I've seen people talking about how Catholics or religious people must be just as bad, there hasn't been a word spilled about how they're "just as good"--I have yet to see someone say "the captain of the football team at my school believed he was God's gift to women--and that's cool, because it's what he believed... nothing wrong with that". I have yet to see someone defend serial killers believing they are natural predators. Or rapists who believe they are a species of man who prey on the virginal.

No. We won't say those things. Because they aren't the downtrodden--gotta respect the oh-so-tragic downtrodden.

In the end, douche boy probably got some kind of satisfaction out of pretending to be a magical creature. It probably made him feel important. It probably made him feel like he was better than the out-of-shape, geeky little unpopular kid that he was. And while comical, from one perspective, and sad, from another, it was hardly a cause for concern. No... not a cause at all. But about the time he decided to convince a girl that he was this false-thing, and tried to get her to believe him, and tried to talk her into proving herself through harmful acts... no... no, that's when douche boy starts doing that thing I have seen so many here rail against--"pushing your beliefs on others".

It's an unfortunate truth, when the guy says "I'm a real vampire"--and then, through questioning reveals he is neither role-playing, joking, using the word differently than I am, or simply "one in [his] own subjective reality"--that I actually think "Hey, this guy believes he's a vampire... or is trying to convince me he is one."

Maybe that's a failing of mine, but if someone tells me he's an electrician--and isn't acting, kidding, using the word to mean what I use the word to mean, or simply thinks he is one in his own little subjective reality--than I think "Het this guy believes he's an electrician... or is trying to convince me he is one."

'Course, electricians aren't amongst the down-trodden. Guess that makes them the enemy, too, right?

 

[sweetnpetite]

So, there would be absolutely nothing wrong with me saying I'm superior to you--because, hey, "superior" can mean just what I want it to mean? Word meanings expand with usage, and maybe I mean "superior" to mean taller or something benign. For that matter I could call you a "bitch" or a "whore", but because I mean those words to be something entirely subjective to what I'm thinking--I could be using them to mean "someone who confronts" and "someone who likes sex". I could call myself a king, a god, a messiah; I could call you a peasant, an insect, or a failure as a human being... because words mean different things. And how dare people say I'd be wrong in my using of those words or how dare they argue that I am not those things or they are not those things... because it's all about how I use the word.

Heh. No.

No... no, I can't get behind the "people use words how they want and that's just dandy" train of thought. And I'm more or less convinced that given the proper situation, most people don't either. We can preach the virtues of how its adorable for someone to refer to themselves as a "earth spirit pixie" or how--in the name of tolerance and understanding--it is fine for someone to propose themselves as a "real vampire", and find it abhorrant when a corporate mogul refers to himself as a "god amongst men" or Bush refers to himself as "the hand of God".

I think... and correct me if I'm wrong here... I think we're biasing ourselves in favor of the geeky, the outcast, the "alternative". Because while I've seen people talking about how Catholics or religious people must be just as bad, there hasn't been a word spilled about how they're "just as good"--I have yet to see someone say "the captain of the football team at my school believed he was God's gift to women--and that's cool, because it's what he believed... nothing wrong with that". I have yet to see someone defend serial killers believing they are natural predators. Or rapists who believe they are a species of man who prey on the virginal.

No. We won't say those things. Because they aren't the downtrodden--gotta respect the oh-so-tragic downtrodden.

In the end, douche boy probably got some kind of satisfaction out of pretending to be a magical creature. It probably made him feel important. It probably made him feel like he was better than the out-of-shape, geeky little unpopular kid that he was. And while comical, from one perspective, and sad, from another, it was hardly a cause for concern. No... not a cause at all. But about the time he decided to convince a girl that he was this false-thing, and tried to get her to believe him, and tried to talk her into proving herself through harmful acts... no... no, that's when douche boy starts doing that thing I have seen so many here rail against--"pushing your beliefs on others".

It's an unfortunate truth, when the guy says "I'm a real vampire"--and then, through questioning reveals he is neither role-playing, joking, using the word differently than I am, or simply "one in [his] own subjective reality"--that I actually think "Hey, this guy believes he's a vampire... or is trying to convince me he is one."

Maybe that's a failing of mine, but if someone tells me he's an electrician--and isn't acting, kidding, using the word to mean what I use the word to mean, or simply thinks he is one in his own little subjective reality--than I think "Het this guy believes he's an electrician... or is trying to convince me he is one."

'Course, electricians aren't amongst the down-trodden. Guess that makes them the enemy, too, right?

Give me a break Joe. You've never tried to convince a girl of something not entirely true to get some? Or ever fooled yourself into thinking you were special in some way or more important in the sceme of things than anyone else? Cuz I think it's pretty much human nature. Men and women both lie during courtship- or at least practice dishonesty. We suck in our gut, we spend more money than we're comfortable with and we don't complain about it, we pretend to like each other's families, we hide our perscription pills, ect, ect. It's not just men and it's not just freaks either.

And yes- you are superior to me. You're superior in hieght without a doubt, superior in education level, superior in IQ, superior professionally, ect. Superior in a lot of ways. That doesn't mean I'm going to bow down and worship you, but you can certainly say with truthfulness that you are superior to Sweet.

And well- you can call me a bitch or a whore or a peasant or an insect as well. Surely, you could call me an insect and it would be true in the way that you mean it (small insignificant annoying ect) even if it wasn't true in the 6 legs and wings sort of way. I won't like it if you call me any of those things, but that won't make you 'wrong' to use that particular word. If that's the word that describes your feelings toward me, you could use it. And then I would use the word that describes my feelings toward you. See how it works?

And anyway- we are talking about what people call themselves- not what they call other people. I don't beleive that language has *no* meaning, but it's a hell of a lot more fluid than most people seem to give it credit for.

As for calling yourself a King, a God or a Messiah- well, yes you could. I know a 'King of Nothing' a 'King of the Castle' and a few others who identified themselves as kings. If you feel that you are a Messiah [One who is anticipated as, regarded as, or professes to be a savior or liberator. ]then you may call yourself that. see how it works yet?

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

So... spending more money than one is comfortable with is equally acceptable as believing one's self a supernatural predator of mankind, immortal and magically powerful so long as one drinks the blood of the living?

Am I reading that right?

 

[gauchecritic]

Joe, you know that's exactly what she means, and exactly the opposite of what she means.

Admit it, you can see the grey.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Joe, you know that's exactly what she means, and exactly the opposite of what she means.

Admit it, you can see the grey.

Oh, I can admit to a greyness--assuming we can admit to there being black and white... because if we're saying that all believed things fall under the umbrella of "just part of the spice of life", we're opening the door to some pretty depraved shit being beyond reproach. Including invading Iraq because they had WMD, killing people because they were witches, and persecuting Jews on the grounds of natural superiority.

 

[sweetnpetite]

So... spending more money than one is comfortable with is equally acceptable as believing one's self a supernatural predator of mankind, immortal and magically powerful so long as one drinks the blood of the living?

Am I reading that right?

No, shockingly you are not reading that right.

I was talking about pretending to be something you are not. Be it wealthy or generous or supernatural or whatever. Putting forth a false face in the hopes of getting laid.

And you know- I didn't say eiter one was acceptable.