Vampires

[OhMissScarlett]

I've got absolutely NO tolerance for that level of "goddamn".

I'm so glad I'm not the only one.

Which is to say... it's a category summed up by "So, you're not actually a [mythical magical creature], but choose to act like one sometimes and call it 'really being one'.".

When my brother was three, he insisted we all refer to him as Batman, that didn't make him Batman.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

When my brother was three, he insisted we all refer to him as Batman, that didn't make him Batman.

Heh... I made an ex-girlfriend call me Batman for a whole day (even during sex). That was fun. But, no... I still wasn't Batman.

I still maintain that I will freely pay for evidence. It would be worth the money just to know. Hell... I've had a standing offer to pay for magical spells for years, around here. No winners--though two or three people have tried.

 

[carsonshepherd]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one.


When my brother was three, he insisted we all refer to him as Batman, that didn't make him Batman.

But if he could spin webs and climb walls and shit, he would have been Batman. So if Dr Mab's vampiress drank blood, that made her a vampire. At least, in that definition : someone who drinks human blood. Which makes me ill. But that's beside the point.

 

[SeaCat]

LOLOL I've known a few of these types of people. Usually they're harmless. Sometimes annoying but harmless.

Hell I even dated a young lady who told everyone she was a black witch. No problems on my part. Other than her wearing black clothes all the time, including during the summer, she was as sane as anyone else.

The only time I can see having a problem with one of these sharp toothed critter wanna be's is if they actually try to sink their fangs into me. At that time I'm sure I will be tempted to assist them in finding a good Orthodontist.

Cat

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

We had a girl around here for a while (we may have slept together on an off for a while) who claimed to be a witch--from some kind of long family tradition of witches. Oh, I nearly choked on my drink the night she referred to herself as "that pesky little witch who changes the streetlights green so she doesn't have to stop".

Six weeks later. Absolutely assured everyone she could do it; not one instance of it occuring.

Ooooo... magic/magick/magik/majik/madgick/madyck/ma-stupidfuckingpeople-jic.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Heh... I made an ex-girlfriend call me Batman for a whole day (even during sex). That was fun. But, no... I still wasn't Batman.

I still maintain that I will freely pay for evidence. It would be worth the money just to know. Hell... I've had a standing offer to pay for magical spells for years, around here. No winners--though two or three people have tried.

Oh, Batman!!!
Sadly, I have no proof that vampires exist. Though, on the subject of spells, I did fall victim to a nasty jinx thrown on me by some Roma who lived next door to me. I didn't really believe in such hocus pocus, but bad things started happening to me after the curse. My crazy wiccan aunt removed it for me and the bad shit stopped.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Oh my god. I can think of so many things to say on this topic.

I know many people who have there little 'dilusions' or whatever. My boyfriend and I always say that he has a wife. We refer to her like she's real- she's even got a name. Never have we ever said "Oh you don't really have a wife- we're just kidding" If we tell others about his 'wife' we leave it to there good sence to figure out that the truth about it.

Not much different, I would say from me saying "I believe in Santa Clause" -- and I do. Not that I'm stupid and I don't put toys under the tree because I really think they will be there in the morning by themselves- but I keep the illusion alive. I guess that's the best way to describe these people.

Personally, were i to meet a person who thought they were a vampire- and who was able to fully keep the illusion alive- most likely I'd be fascinated. We all have our dillusions, I fully beleive this. We all have our pretensions, or try to project something out into the world about ourselves that's more who we wish or think we are than who we really are.

There are people who think that they are really animals- mythical and real. They beleive that they have a tail or wings that can't be seen- but that they have a special awareness of. People who think they are dragons- people who think they are elvis. People who are any degree from half-kidding to dead serious. Variety is the spice of life. How different is this from a man who feels he's trapped in a woman's body or vice versa?

There are people who believe in past lives and people who believe in magick spells. (and people who spell it 'magick'-- oh the pretension!) There are people who believe that prayer works and that if they follow what the bible says, god will give them prosperity. I don't see much difference in any of these beleifs- and as a matter of fact, many an athiest reading a personal ad on a christian match site probably thinks that those posters have the same level of delusion and pretensiosness as the vampires. Especially when they start throwing in the special lingo of the born again!

Oh yes, I think there is not much difference between one group and another. And I agree that you are taking it all too seriously. And I think you'll make a great logic-istan (?) but I just don't see you as a psychologist. Sorry, no way. People just aren't logical. You also have to be far more accepting of human oddities and far less judgemental of them.

Yeah, there are freaks in this world. But I say- "Thank god for freaks!"

Freaky people don't scare me. Normal people too. They tend to be the most pretentious of all. [And sometimes they don't even know it.]


__________________
Sweet.

"Thank God for Freaks!"

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Oh yes, I think there is not much difference between one group and another. And I agree that you are taking it all too seriously. And I think you'll make a great logic-istan (?) but I just don't see you as a psychologist. Sorry, no way. People just aren't logical. You also have to be far more accepting of human oddities and far less judgemental of them.

Logician.

See, taking to a place more serious than amused and disturbed gawking for just a second... there's a level of seperation with reality that becomes dangerous. If someone wants to believe in something that is harmless in hypothetical execution, that's one thing. A child believes in Santa Clause, believes in fairies, believes Jesus loves them, etc... No problems there, developmentally. If they were to hold onto those beliefs the rest of their
lives, they would be strange--but nothing dangerous.

When you start in with delusions about the nature of reality and one's place in it, you start flirting with real disorders and hazards. Believing you're descended from the Pilgrims? Descended from the Native Americans? French? English? German? That's putting one's self in a category that does not dominate personality or behavior in an essential way.

Believing you're a vampire? Not human? That's dangerous. Someone who isn't human is not bound by human laws, constraints, morality, etc. Someone who isn't human cannot be expected to act humanely. Flirting with the notion of being not-human is flirting with the acceptance of a reality that places you in a category of action and responsibility entirely of your own devising, and a classification that may place others around you in roles as though objects or animals--beneath meta-human concern.

Richard Ramirez is an excellent example of how people can be, in a world view that preaches an "above-ness" or "metaphysical superiority to" humanity (and does so in a way that makes other people food, fodder, metaphysically meaningless) can be hazardous.

Do I think that someone saying "I'm a vampire" is dangerous? Not necessarily. Do I think that someone believing that they are a blood-drinking, non-human, creature of social exception who has a preternatural right to dominance of others via the predator/prey relationship is dangerous? Quite possibly. Do I think that encouraging that world view is healthy? No.

And I'm not the only psychology guy out there who thinks so. Behavioral (the field I'm in) works primarily with the prediction and influence over harmful or potentially harmful behaviors. This is more Social Psych, Personality Psych. Lot of ink has been spilled about this being a trend that for some people isn't healthy at all.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Oh my god. I can think of so many things to say on this topic.

I know many people who have there little 'dilusions' or whatever. My boyfriend and I always say that he has a wife. We refer to her like she's real- she's even got a name. Never have we ever said "Oh you don't really have a wife- we're just kidding" If we tell others about his 'wife' we leave it to there good sence to figure out that the truth about it.

Not much different, I would say from me saying "I believe in Santa Clause" -- and I do. Not that I'm stupid and I don't put toys under the tree because I really think they will be there in the morning by themselves- but I keep the illusion alive. I guess that's the best way to describe these people.

Personally, were i to meet a person who thought they were a vampire- and who was able to fully keep the illusion alive- most likely I'd be fascinated. We all have our dillusions, I fully beleive this. We all have our pretensions, or try to project something out into the world about ourselves that's more who we wish or think we are than who we really are.

There are people who think that they are really animals- mythical and real. They beleive that they have a tail or wings that can't be seen- but that they have a special awareness of. People who think they are dragons- people who think they are elvis. People who are any degree from half-kidding to dead serious. Variety is the spice of life. How different is this from a man who feels he's trapped in a woman's body or vice versa?

There are people who believe in past lives and people who believe in magick spells. (and people who spell it 'magick'-- oh the pretension!) There are people who believe that prayer works and that if they follow what the bible says, god will give them prosperity. I don't see much difference in any of these beleifs- and as a matter of fact, many an athiest reading a personal ad on a christian match site probably thinks that those posters have the same level of delusion and pretensiosness as the vampires. Especially when they start throwing in the special lingo of the born again!

Oh yes, I think there is not much difference between one group and another. And I agree that you are taking it all too seriously. And I think you'll make a great logic-istan (?) but I just don't see you as a psychologist. Sorry, no way. People just aren't logical. You also have to be far more accepting of human oddities and far less judgemental of them.

Yeah, there are freaks in this world. But I say- "Thank god for freaks!"

Freaky people don't scare me. Normal people too. They tend to be the most pretentious of all. [And sometimes they don't even know it.]


__________________
Sweet.

"Thank God for Freaks!"

Beautiful.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Logician.

See, taking to a place more serious than amused and disturbed gawking for just a second... there's a level of seperation with reality that becomes dangerous. If someone wants to believe in something that is harmless in hypothetical execution, that's one thing. A child believes in Santa Clause, believes in fairies, believes Jesus loves them, etc... No problems there, developmentally. If they were to hold onto those beliefs the rest of their
lives, they would be strange--but nothing dangerous.

When you start in with delusions about the nature of reality and one's place in it, you start flirting with real disorders and hazards. Believing you're descended from the Pilgrims? Descended from the Native Americans? French? English? German? That's putting one's self in a category that does not dominate personality or behavior in an essential way.

Believing you're a vampire? Not human? That's dangerous. Someone who isn't human is not bound by human laws, constraints, morality, etc. Someone who isn't human cannot be expected to act humanely. Flirting with the notion of being not-human is flirting with the acceptance of a reality that places you in a category of action and responsibility entirely of your own devising, and a classification that may place others around you in roles as though objects or animals--beneath meta-human concern.

Richard Ramirez is an excellent example of how people can be, in a world view that preaches an "above-ness" or "metaphysical superiority to" humanity (and does so in a way that makes other people food, fodder, metaphysically meaningless) can be hazardous.

Do I think that someone saying "I'm a vampire" is dangerous? Not necessarily. Do I think that someone believing that they are a blood-drinking, non-human, creature of social exception who has a preternatural right to dominance of others via the predator/prey relationship is dangerous? Quite possibly. Do I think that encouraging that world view is healthy? No.

And I'm not the only psychology guy out there who thinks so. Behavioral (the field I'm in) works primarily with the prediction and influence over harmful or potentially harmful behaviors. This is more Social Psych, Personality Psych. Lot of ink has been spilled about this being a trend that for some people isn't healthy at all.

Uh, Joe, next time you take a spin around the net, I invite you to look up the concept of LARP. You're making an ass out of yourself because you're trying to denounce something you have no understanding of.

It's making you unintentionally funny.

 

[CharleyH]

Uh, Joe, next time you take a spin around the net, I invite you to look up the concept of LARP. You're making an ass out of yourself because you're trying to denounce something you have no understanding of.

It's making you unintentionally funny.

I would be the first to tell Joe that, yet tonight, I see him playing, as he does.

And yet, I still did not see an answer on the diff. of S and M, or vampirism and other.

What is weird?

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I would be the first to tell Joe that, yet tonight, I see him playing, as he does.

And yet, I still did not see an answer the diff. of S and M, or vampirism and other. What is weird?

Oh, is Luc bitching about something?

He wasn't a LARPer. Don't know why he's assuming he was. I think I can quote the part where he makes assurances as to what he was saying being neither role-playing nor fake. But.. pfft. Whatever. I guess one just had to be there (if one were interested in knowing what they were talking about).

So, what's the question Charley? I thought I'd answered any that you'd asked, but if you can restate it clearly, I'll do my best again.

 

[CharleyH]

Oh, is Luc bitching about something?

He wasn't a LARPer. Don't know why he's assuming he was. I think I can re-quote the part where he makes assurances as to what he was saying being neither role-playing nor fake. But.. pfft. Whatever. I guess one just had to be there (if one were interested in knowing what they were talking about).

So, what's the question Charley? I thought I'd answered any that you'd asked, but if you can restate it clearly, I'll do my best again.

You scuttled, my friend, over everything, as you are known to do. Vampirism, is it sadism? What is sadism, and can sadaism and masochism ... co-exist

Three questions, which I am not intelligent to answer until tomorrow, yet it is intriguing to see your take, Joe.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

You scuttled, my friend, over everything, as you are known to do. Vampirism, is it sadism? What is sadism, and can sadaism an masochism ... co-exist

Actually, I pride myself in addressing even the minute details. Either way, though.

Belief in being a Vampire vs. Sadism... (as I haven't anything relavent to say about the practice of being merely sexually aroused at the idea of being a vampire, but instead have been talking about people who truly believe or claim to truly believe they are one, independant of sexual satisfactions).

O.k. Well, right off the bat... one is a practice, one is a belief or claimed belief about the nature of reality and one's place in it. It'd be the same difference between phone sex and believing one is a pixie.

Sadism is the the practice of inflicting suffering and the excitement derived thereof? Is that suitable for a working definition? Sadism and masochism can co-exist, sure (not sure what the point of that is, though).

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Oh, is Luc bitching about something?

He wasn't a LARPer. Don't know why he's assuming he was. I think I can quote the part where he makes assurances as to what he was saying being neither role-playing nor fake. But.. pfft. Whatever. I guess one just had to be there (if one were interested in knowing what they were talking about).

So, what's the question Charley? I thought I'd answered any that you'd asked, but if you can restate it clearly, I'll do my best again.

Staying in-character is a mark of the LARPer. Vampire LARPers in particular have a pecuiliar tendency to stay in-character day to day as an extension of their goth group identity rather than to just do it in game as would be done in a LARP in a Con. I believe I "bitched" that earlier. In your example you stated that he did backtrack himself when "backed into a corner" i.e. when the pleasure of the role-play was becoming too tainted in the moment to continue to be pleasurable. That states a more LARPing character rather than a true delusional. Overall less detached from reality than people who maintain they have guardian angels.

LARP as being a live-action sequence rather than table-top like its more (sane, by personal bias) conventional origins has more of a tendency to escape the bounds of the session format. In particular vampire LARPing, the most popular of LARPs, has most often broken the lines of day-to-day spawning a whole subgroup composed of the fringe of the Goth and geek groups which LARPs continuously. My personal opinion is that they're pathetic, but they're not "one step away from serial killers" as you suggest, nor are they as "divorced from reality" as you perceive them. Despite their statements "in character" including yes, denials about role-playing, most understand in the "out of character" sense that they are not genuinely vampires. A rare few are genuinely divorced from reality but these are an abberation more than a majority.

It's not a "bitching", nor much of a defense of the character of the people who are that much into Vampire LARPing (i find them very silly personally), but rather a statement of what is. You're unintentionally funny, because you believed one interaction with a vampire LARPer where you took him literally made you an expert. Just as you were unintentionally funny the first time you ranted against Wiccans.

But eh...It was time I went back to work anyway.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Logician.

Yeah, that. It was on the tip of my tongue.

Do I think that someone saying "I'm a vampire" is dangerous? Not necessarily. Do I think that someone believing that they are a blood-drinking, non-human, creature of social exception who has a preternatural right to dominance of others via the predator/prey relationship is dangerous? Quite possibly. Do I think that encouraging that world view is healthy? No.

Guess it doesn't phase me because I know plenty of people who beleive themselves to be human and still think they are especially 'special.' That the regular rules don't apply to them. In fact, I feel sad that most people don't seem to think anybody else has any importance beyond the importance they hold in relation to them. (ie- she may be somebodies mother, but she's not *my* mother) And plenty more who are pasters or christians who think that all there beliefs are right and true (and the only truth) because they are 'God's beliefs.' These people don't think that their oppinions are their *belief* about God and his oppinions, but his actually oppinions.

And strangley, nearly every guy I know seems to think he *is* God. More than one has even said- "I don't believe in God, but if I did, he would be me." double One even says- they think they're god- I know it. Tripple

Yeah, lot's of people who aren't vampires and don't think they are still seem to think that they are above the laws of god and man. Or that they have the special phone line to god, and they are the only ones who know the Truth.

Like I said- we all have dillusions. And you really shouldn't assume that someone elses dillusions mean just what *you* think they mean. Because quite often, they don't. Those freaky vampire people who drink the blood of consensual blood doners, some of them are the most 'live and let live' people around. Just because they seem freekier on the outside doesn't mean that they are any more phychotic than the guy in the business suit. [who may or may not think that he is above legal and ethical obligations and consideration]

Some phychoyatrists, i'm sure will disagree with me and agree with you. But I'm sorry, I can't see this an anything other than prejudice. To me, a phychiatist (yeah, I know my spelling is really crappy tonight- my eyes are funny) has to look deeper, has to see beyond the externals- and beyond the walls we put up, the shell of protection, and even the pretensions we erect in order to make ourselves feel 'special' or 'set out above the mere mortals' or whatever.

Lastly, you certainly can't diagnose somebody by a personal ad. Or even worse- by attempts to 'trap them' in their lies or dillusions or whatever. It's fine not to think that 'everything is ok'-- but neither should a phycholgist be so quick to judge and call his jugdements a diagnosis.

My 2 cents.

Sweet.

 

[sweetnpetite]

O.k. Well, right off the bat... one is a practice, one is a belief or claimed belief about the nature of reality and one's place in it. It'd be the same difference between phone sex and believing one is a pixie.

Hey. I am a pixie.

So bite me!

Sorry, couldn't resist. No hard feelings, I hope.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Guess it doesn't phase me because I know plenty of people who beleive themselves to be human and still think they are especially 'special.' That the regular rules don't apply to them. In fact, I feel sad that most people don't seem to think anybody else has any importance beyond the importance they hold in relation to them. (ie- she may be somebodies mother, but she's not *my* mother) And plenty more who are pasters or christians who think that all there beliefs are right and true (and the only truth) because they are 'God's beliefs.' These people don't think that their oppinions are their *belief* about God and his oppinions, but his actually oppinions.

And strangley, nearly every guy I know seems to think he *is* God. More than one has even said- "I don't believe in God, but if I did, he would be me." double One even says- they think they're god- I know it. Tripple

Yeah, lot's of people who aren't vampires and don't think they are still seem to think that they are above the laws of god and man. Or that they have the special phone line to god, and they are the only ones who know the Truth.

Like I said- we all have dillusions. And you really shouldn't assume that someone elses dillusions mean just what *you* think they mean. Because quite often, they don't. Those freaky vampire people who drink the blood of consensual blood doners, some of them are the most 'live and let live' people around. Just because they seem freekier on the outside doesn't mean that they are any more phychotic than the guy in the business suit. [who may or may not think that he is above legal and ethical obligations and consideration]

That's still a bit different... for example, believing that you are holy isn't dangerous. Nothing inherant about "holy" is hazardous to other people. When you predicate "holiness" with "some practice hazardous to others by nature", you start toying with dangerous beliefs. Believing you're "magical mythical creature" may not be hazardous, believing you are a predator of humanity is part of the very notion of "danger to society".

Believing you are above the law can be dangerous... surely. Corporate moguls believing themselves above the law becaues they are rich is dangerous, and shouldn't be dismissed as "well, that's o.k., because everyone has delusions". Believing that you are intended to feed off of human beings because of a mystical compulsion is also dangerous.

Not all "delusions" are equal hazardless just because they can be categorized as "delusions". That's the same rationale as saying not all crimes are equally hazardous because you can call them all crimes (in such a case, protesting on government property and murder sprees are both equally bad harmless because they're both "crimes").

Some phychoyatrists, i'm sure will disagree with me and agree with you. But I'm sorry, I can't see this an anything other than prejudice. To me, a phychiatist (yeah, I know my spelling is really crappy tonight- my eyes are funny) has to look deeper, has to see beyond the externals- and beyond the walls we put up, the shell of protection, and even the pretensions we erect in order to make ourselves feel 'special' or 'set out above the mere mortals' or whatever.

That delusions about being a predator of humans and relieved of the burden of considering death a consequence (to a greater extent than normal)? Yeah. It's not healthy. Past that, lying to the impressionable or the young and telling them that you are and can make them that way, as well? Dangerous stuff.

Lastly, you certainly can't diagnose somebody by a personal ad. Or even worse- by attempts to 'trap them' in their lies or dillusions or whatever. It's fine not to think that 'everything is ok'-- but neither should a phycholgist be so quick to judge and call his jugdements a diagnosis.

No, one can't. And the "vampire" guy we knew? He was a douche. Putting on a show and trying to subvert and objectify a girl in such a way as to make her "prove herself". I think had it been a frat guy that had said that to a woman, there'd be a little more yelling and screaming about him being a douche--but he's an "alternative" kind of guy, that must afford him some pity here.

It's why I said waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back that I'd have to step outside the amused and disturbed gawking to discuss the potential hazards of people that do genuinely believe these things. And I did, but in doing so it wasn't referrent to personal ads--but rather, as stated, people with genuine beliefs concerning this. Past there, there was nothing quick about judgement on my part, concerning the psychology parts. It was cautious and specific.

 

[English Lady]

What an interesting thread, not what I expected when I opened it. (Not sure what I did expect though)

I do think Joe has a point. Yup I love freaky folks but I honestly feel sorry for these kinda folks and maybe they don't want my pity but well, they've got it.

I'm not just talking about "Vampires" but anyone who gets pulled so far into a fantasy they live it as if it is their real life. I mean it pulls at my heart strings really, why can they not live their own lives?What makes them want to be someone/something else so much?

Fantasy is healthy, I can go so far as thinking a bit of role play now and then can be fun but I think there is something upsetting about people getting so into character they seem to believe it.

 

[Huckleman2000]

...Believing you are above the law can be dangerous... surely. Corporate moguls believing themselves above the law becaues they are rich is dangerous, and shouldn't be dismissed as "well, that's o.k., because everyone has delusions". ...

That's one of the most surprising things I've seen you write. Except, corporate moguls believing themselves above the law because they are rich, however dangerous, isn't really delusional.

I'm not sure where in the branches of psychology Narcissism lies, but a lot of the weirdities discussed in this thread have at least a star in that constellation.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Oh, certainly.

 

[sweetnpetite]

That's one of the most surprising things I've seen you write. Except, corporate moguls believing themselves above the law because they are rich, however dangerous, isn't really delusional.

I'm not sure where in the branches of psychology Narcissism lies, but a lot of the weirdities discussed in this thread have at least a star in that constellation.

which makes them more like Joe than unlike him.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

which makes them more like Joe than unlike him.

And precisely like sweetnpetite, who is also delusional.

 

[sweetnpetite]

And precisely like sweetnpetite, who is also delusional.

thank you

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

thank you

Whatever it takes.