Using AI.

[txblush]

I’ve had a story rejected because they were wrongly flagged for using AI. I don’t use AI to write my stories, I just ran them through Grammarly to fix the grammar. I really don’t see what’s wrong with that. I’m not going to intentionally leave mistakes in my text just so an AI detector doesn’t get suspicious because it’s too clean.

I was just about to ask the same thing when I saw your post. I use Grammarly and ProWritingAid, and I'd like to think that those two programs, which are meant to help clean up my grammar mistakes, aren't going to be held against posting a story here. But it's been three years since my last post, so if that's going to cause me an issue. Can someone let us know what the rules are about using these before we submit a story? Thanks!

 

[Voboy]

Can someone let us know what the rules are about using these before we submit a story? Thanks!

Nobody here can answer that definitively.

Several of us have hashed all this out over the course of many, many threads over the past eighteen months or so. We came to certain conclusions, but I'm unaware of a clean thread that has any of those listed. I also question the utility of such a thread, since it's all conjecture anyway.

Scroll up to my post just above yours, though, where I pointed out something we did seem to reach consensus on: people uncritically accepting Grammarly's suggestions does seem to trigger whatever Laurel is using as a detector.

 

[txblush]

Scroll up to my post just above yours, though, where I pointed out something we did seem to reach consensus on: people uncritically accepting Grammarly's suggestions does seem to trigger whatever Laurel is using as a detector.

Thanks for posting about Grammarly, as it answered the question. The irony is, I found out about Grammarly through a Lit post, and for better or worse, I'm going to continue to use it at my own risk of having a story I'm working on rejected here, so please anyone who reads this I'd appreciate it if you'd respect my decision because as much as I enjoy writing stories I've always had an issue with the rules of grammar and I'm far too old to teach myself from a book. Plus, I don't have the patience, especially when a story comes to mind, and writing it to me is more important than learning about commas. Those nasty little devils get me every time. LOL

 

[Bramblethorn]

I was just about to ask the same thing when I saw your post. I use Grammarly and ProWritingAid, and I'd like to think that those two programs, which are meant to help clean up my grammar mistakes, aren't going to be held against posting a story here. But it's been three years since my last post, so if that's going to cause me an issue. Can someone let us know what the rules are about using these before we submit a story? Thanks!

FWIW, both Grammarly and ProWritingAid use "AI" (read: large language model) tech to power suggestions for things like grammar fixes.

Personally I think there's quite a gap between accepting basic suggestions on fixing a grammatical error and asking these tools to rewrite a sentence to make it punchier, but it may be that Laurel and Manu have decided that it's just easier to adopt a bright line "no AI" rule rather than get into debate about exactly how much AI assistance is allowed.

 

[Voboy]

I've always had an issue with the rules of grammar and I'm far too old to teach myself from a book.

It's difficult for me to respect your decision, because this statement is horseshit. You're not too old to teach yourself anything.

Your brain is more than capable of learning, at any age. It's what it evolved to do. You don't want to put in the effort, and that's understandable, but ultimately that's what's going to make you a better writer: understanding in your own mind how language can best be shaped to tell a story. If you let a machine do that for you, you're not really telling your own story. I think that's the crux of Laurel's argument, and it's a good one.

My advice? Read more. A lot more. And not style guides nor tutorial books: read great authors. Internalize how they use language. Try to understand how they build their sentences. Then, once you've grasped that, your stories will take on their own more vibrant voices. And you'll feel like you've accomplished something. There's no downside.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Thanks for posting about Grammarly, as it answered the question. The irony is, I found out about Grammarly through a Lit post, and for better or worse, I'm going to continue to use it at my own risk of having a story I'm working on rejected here, so please anyone who reads this I'd appreciate it if you'd respect my decision because as much as I enjoy writing stories I've always had an issue with the rules of grammar and I'm far too old to teach myself from a book. Plus, I don't have the patience, especially when a story comes to mind, and writing it to me is more important than learning about commas. Those nasty little devils get me every time. LOL

I use Grammarly to fix grammar and punctuation, and I've never had a problem with my submissions. Don't listen to all the fearmongering; it's a great tool to help you correct mistakes, but also to help you learn grammar rules. It has been of great help to me as a non-native speaker, and I can say with certainty that I now make far fewer (the old me would probably type "less" here) mistakes than I used to.
It has helped me learn, along with helping me spend less time on searching for grammar or punctuation mistakes instead of perfecting the actual story. Just make sure to never use it to rewrite your sentences. That's the wrong approach for soooo many reasons, and not only because it might get your story rejected here.

 

[txblush]

It's difficult for me to respect your decision, because this statement is horseshit. You're not too old to teach yourself anything.

Your brain is more than capable of learning, at any age. It's what it evolved to do. You don't want to put in the effort, and that's understandable, but ultimately that's what's going to make you a better writer: understanding in your own mind how language can best be shaped to tell a story. If you let a machine do that for you, you're not really telling your own story. I think that's the crux of Laurel's argument, and it's a good one.

My advice? Read more. A lot more. And not style guides nor tutorial books: read great authors. Internalize how they use language. Try to understand how they build their sentences. Then, once you've grasped that, your stories will take on their own more vibrant voices. And you'll feel like you've accomplished something. There's no downside.

It may be horseshit, Voboy. But I'm being honest about my feelings on learning grammar. I have written stories, putting the commas where I thought the pauses should be in a sentence. That's how I learned to use commas in my prose, but the question of whether it was the correct way to use a comma or a semicolon is one I can't answer on my own. A second pair of eyes, with glasses for reading, would be nice. The volunteer editors program here has been sketchy since I became a member, and not everyone likes the D/s, DD/lg genre I enjoy reading and writing about.

 

[Voboy]

It may be horseshit, Voboy. But I'm being honest about my feelings on learning grammar. I have written stories, putting the commas where I thought the pauses should be in a sentence. That's how I learned to use commas in my prose, but the question of whether it was the correct way to use a comma or a semicolon is one I can't answer on my own. A second pair of eyes, with glasses for reading, would be nice. The volunteer editors program here has been sketchy since I became a member, and not everyone likes the D/s, DD/lg genre I enjoy reading and writing about.

You learn to use commas by seeing how they should be used, though.

One trip through the Lord of the Rings will teach a perceptive reader a whole lot about sentence construction, including the use of commas. That's not to say you'd become someone who'd suddenly write like Tolkien; it's to say that he'd give you a million examples of the proper use of commas, among much else. Published books by great authors are a masterclass in how to write our own stories.

The use of language transcends genre. A comma doesn't care whether you're using it in the Bible or in a D/s story. The difficulty of finding trustworthy volunteer editors is just another good reason why you should become your own editor. You can do this!

 

[txblush]

You learn to use commas by seeing how they should be used, though.

One trip through the Lord of the Rings will teach a perceptive reader a whole lot about sentence construction, including the use of commas. That's not to say you'd become someone who'd suddenly write like Tolkien; it's to say that he'd give you a million examples of the proper use of commas, among much else. Published books by great authors are a masterclass in how to write our own stories.

The use of language transcends genre. A comma doesn't care whether you're using it in the Bible or in a D/s story. The difficulty of finding trustworthy volunteer editors is just another good reason why you should become your own editor. You can do this!

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Voboy. I really appreciate it. As for reading The Lord of the Rings. I'm not a fan, except when it became a movie. <giggles>

 

[MillieDynamite]

I hate ;, :, and long dashes and try not use them. But sometimes it is more effective to use them than not to. I favor... but use... sparingly and as you see, I use incorrectly...rather than this way, which is proper.

 

[filthytrancendence]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Voboy. I really appreciate it. As for reading The Lord of the Rings. I'm not a fan, except when it became a movie. <giggles>

I admonished a writer for bouncing off of writing with technical errors yesterday, so it seems only fair I admonish you for preemptively bouncing off of excellent writing because you're 'not a fan.'

That's a mind prison. And it's beside the point. You don't have to read Tolkien, there's a hundred other legendarily great writers you can learn form. Being a fan is irrelevant. If you want to learn to write better, get to reading. If this is really something you care about, you kinda need to cultivate an appreciation of the craft that transcends subject matter.

There aren't any DD/lg classics out there to read. If you want to write the first one, you're gunna need to venture outside of that for knowledge and inspiration.

 

[Voboy]

If this is really something you care about, you kinda need to cultivate an appreciation of the craft that transcends subject matter.

This.

If the reply is another <giggle>, @txblush, you needn't bother. I give advice because I think I might just possibly have something to offer you. I'm not sure, though, that you're prepared to take it.

Good luck with helping robots write "your" stories.

 

[MillieDynamite]

William Shakespeare, Robert Louis (pronounced Lewie) Stevenson, Mary Wollstonecraft, Mary Wollstonecraft Shelly, Lord Byron, John William Polidori, Charles Dickenson (the writer, not the attorney who was killed in a duel with Andrew Jackson), H.G. Wells, Sir Author Conan Doyle, Bram Stoker, Earl Stanely Gardner, Earl Hammer Jr., and hundreds and hundres more.

I admonished a writer for bouncing off of writing with technical errors yesterday, so it seems only fair I admonish you for preemptively bouncing off of excellent writing because you're 'not a fan.'

That's a mind prison. And it's beside the point. You don't have to read Tolkien, there's a hundred other legendarily great writers you can learn form. Being a fan is irrelevant. If you want to learn to write better, get to reading. If this is really something you care about, you kinda need to cultivate an appreciation of the craft that transcends subject matter.

There aren't any DD/lg classics out there to read. If you want to write the first one, you're gunna need to venture outside of that for knowledge and inspiration.

 

[txblush]

This.

If the reply is another <giggle>, @txblush, you needn't bother. I give advice because I think I might just possibly have something to offer you. I'm not sure, though, that you're prepared to take it.

Good luck with helping robots write "your" stories.

My apologies for giggling Voboy. I was trying to let you know I'm okay with taking your advice. Do you mind if I send you a private message?

 

[yano2mch]

There aren't any DD/lg classics out there to read. If you want to write the first one, you're gunna need to venture outside of that for knowledge and inspiration.

Or maybe you need to look in the right place.

There's a LOT of classic erotica, 70's 80's and 90's that are interesting and probably break site rules here. But it covers a lot of kinks and interests from incest, rape, underage, gay, zoophilia, bondage, etc and other things. I'd originally stumbled on them back when WhiteShadow's Nasty Stories was still a thing late 90's.

Though I'm not sure if DD/lg or some of those terms are as easily taggable for that stuff but there's bound to be some in there. Might search for Greenleaf to lead you towards the classic content.

 

[filthytrancendence]

Or maybe you need to look in the right place.

There's a LOT of classic erotica, 70's 80's and 90's that are interesting and probably break site rules here. But it covers a lot of kinks and interests from incest, rape, underage, gay, zoophilia, bondage, etc and other things. I'd originally stumbled on them back when WhiteShadow's Nasty Stories was still a thing late 90's.

Though I'm not sure if DD/lg or some of those terms are as easily taggable for that stuff but there's bound to be some in there. Might search for Greenleaf to lead you towards the classic content.

I'm beginning to think you're a pedant by nature

 

[txblush]

To filthytranscendence; It's not a mind prison. It's a reading preference. Everyone has a particular genre they like to read. Mysteries, crime and psychological thrillers are the first ones that come to mind.

 

[yano2mch]

I'm beginning to think you're a pedant by nature

If you're implying I'm a Pedophile, i take offense to that.

Girls need to have at least some ass and chest to get a rise out of me. For younger characters it's more nativity, curiosity, discovering sex, coming of age, first romance, a bit of sneaking around, etc; And far less of them just being under 18 or worse being attracted to undeveloped bodies that look like twigs.

But DD/lg i am pretty sure stands for DaddyDom and Little Girl, specifically for roleplay within the story and NOT their stated ages/maturity levels.

 

[lilshymynx]

If you're implying I'm a Pedophile, i take offense to that.

Girls need to have at least some ass and chest to get a rise out of me. For younger characters it's more nativity, curiosity, discovering sex, coming of age, first romance, a bit of sneaking around, etc; And far less of them just being under 18 or worse being attracted to undeveloped bodies that look like twigs.

But DD/lg i am pretty sure stands for DaddyDom and Little Girl, specifically for roleplay within the story and NOT their stated ages/maturity levels.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedant

 

[yano2mch]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedant

Apologies. I've never seen that word before. It looked like a heavy 'pedo' implications (like a slur) based just on the structure.

 

[filthytrancendence]

If you're implying I'm a Pedophile, i take offense to that.

Girls need to have at least some ass and chest to get a rise out of me. For younger characters it's more nativity, curiosity, discovering sex, coming of age, first romance, a bit of sneaking around, etc; And far less of them just being under 18 or worse being attracted to undeveloped bodies that look like twigs.

But DD/lg i am pretty sure stands for DaddyDom and Little Girl, specifically for roleplay within the story and NOT their stated ages/maturity levels.

I was implying you have a habit of being a pedant.

The things you listed are not classics in the sense than anybody was talking about before you got here. I was not attempting to make the claim that nobody's ever written a good story that involves DD/lg, and trying to counter me on that front had nothing to do with anything I said.

Weird you took that in the pedophile direction, but okay.

To filthytranscendence; It's not a mind prison. It's a reading preference. Everyone has a particular genre they like to read. Mysteries, crime and psychological thrillers are the first ones that come to mind.

Look, I'll suppress my urge to be sarcastic. I understand what reading preferences are. It seems like you're having difficulty grasping the advice being given. The mind prison is allowing your personal preferences to cut you off from studying the best writers the English language has known. You have to be willing to put the effort into venturing outside of your preferences if you want to truly study the craft. Enjoying the stories is a secondary possible benefit. Gaining knowledge is the point.

 

[yano2mch]

I was implying you have a habit of being a pedant.
<snip>
Weird you took that in the pedophile direction, but okay.

I already apologized. But the word still looks like a shorthand for pedo. Will take me a while to assimilate it.

 

[XerXesXu]

Apologies. I've never seen that word before. It looked like a heavy 'pedo' implications (like a slur) based just on the structure.

In the UK, during a paedophilia scare, a paediatrician's house was surrounded and stoned. Dictionaries can be useful.

 

[Voboy]

It seems like you're having difficulty grasping the advice being given. The mind prison is allowing your personal preferences to cut you off from studying the best writers the English language has known. You have to be willing to put the effort into venturing outside of your preferences if you want to truly study the craft. Enjoying the stories is a secondary possible benefit. Gaining knowledge is the point.

This.

Any writer here can put the time in and learn to be better, just like diet and exercise can help people lose weight. Getting "feedback" from a mindless machine is the equivalent of trying to use lap band surgery or a purge diet: it works, sorta, but it doesn't really improve you because it leaves your cognition unaltered.

Some of us are talented writers. Others might not be, but it's not crystallized: if you want to get better, you can change your mindset and get better. Your mind is an incredible device: it can do much more than some of you realize, much more than an AI can. You just have to feed it and let it grow, and then you'll become better on your own, not because a machine is writing your pieces for you.

I suggested Tolkien because he's accessible and an excellent prose stylist for those seeking exemplars of well-written English. If you don't like Tolkien, who cares? Use anyone else on the bookshelf. Just use SOMETHING.

Train your mind to be its own LLM. Fuck letting a computer write your shit.

 

[Omenainen]

I think well-meaning advice for becoming a better writer might be misplaced in this thread. If someone admits to having not enough creativity to create a story, and a lack of interest in exploring how to develop one, why should they be publishing stories anyway? If people like masturbating with AI, all the more power to them; whatever rocks your boat. But why would a session of that be interesting to anyone else? Where is the story? Why wouldn’t other people interested in an AI assisted wank be doing it themselves, instead of reading about someone else doing it?

Kind of the same with the guy going “I’m writing out my traumas but I can’t be bothered to learn how to write.” Write for yourself, then. You can write however unclearly and you will always understand what you meant. Writing to publish for someone else to read is a whole different hobby, and if you’re not willing to do the work, why would you pursue it?

I’ve done some amount of beta reading for other people, and I’ve encountered this mindset before where some people imagine that creativity is vomiting out something disjointed, and then it’s “the editor’s job” to make it make sense. I don’t share this opinion. I don’t see how anyone’s ideas would be so precious that other people would be motivated to put significant effort into them, at least if the motivation is assumed to be the greatness of the art and not money/helping a loved one/whatever.

(Edited to add, everyone who I’ve beta read for now getting all huffy, the people I’m talking about aren’t active here on the forum)