USA's Left Conspicuously Silent about UK's Tory Landslide

[PrincepsCyberius]

Many on the left have compared Boris Johnson to Donald Trump.

Like with Trump, they have misrepresented Johnson's policies and exaggerated or simply lied about flaws in his character.

Like with Trump, these defamations of Johnson largely backfired.

The USA's left is in denial about their current prospects for the 2020 elections.

Ignoring what just occurred in Britain is the latest manifestation of that denial.

 

[icanhelp1]

Many on the left have compared Boris Johnson to Donald Trump.

Like with Trump, they have misrepresented Johnson's policies and exaggerated or simply lied about flaws in his character.

Like with Trump, these defamations of Johnson largely backfired.

The USA's left is in denial about their current prospects for the 2020 elections.

Ignoring what just occurred in Britain is the latest manifestation of that denial.

People don't want socialism, the left is fucked! People are starting to realize nothing is for free.

 

[PrincepsCyberius]

People don't want socialism, the left is fucked! People are starting to realize nothing is for free.

I hope you're right about that.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

I hope you're right about that.

The British election was about Brexit.
Corbyn refused to take a position on Brexit.
He also failed to make a compelling case for the pro-worker policies that he tried to run on.

The US election requires someone who will take a stand and explain why policies that funnel money to the rich do what those policies appear to do on the surface and are intended to do what they appear to do on the surface: funnel money to the rich.
If Democrats elect someone who can explain that and get through the distracting din of oversimplification of policy positions, then Democrats will win.

 

[phrodeau]

Compared to Trump, Boris Johnson is a statesman of the highest calibre.

 

[magicalmoments]

I can understand how the simple minded would come to the conclusions expressed above by the OP in #1.

Although it is tempting to compare Johnson and trump as being similar they are worlds apart. In my opinion Johnson is playing a role, one that he has found brings him base support. Trump on the other hand is just being himself, no playing of roles with him.

I think the key to johnsons success is 3 fold, a strong anti immigration stance, which is racist at its core. Brexit, the Brits want out of this and this too is racist based. And finally Corbyn, the failure of the Labour Party to find a credible leader, and they haven't had one since Tony Blair.

 

[oggbashan]

I can understand how the simple minded would come to the conclusions expressed above by the OP in #1.

Although it is tempting to compare Johnson and trump as being similar they are worlds apart. In my opinion Johnson is playing a role, one that he has found brings him base support. Trump on the other hand is just being himself, no playing of roles with him.

I think the key to johnsons success is 3 fold, a strong anti immigration stance, which is racist at its core. Brexit, the Brits want out of this and this too is racist based. And finally Corbyn, the failure of the Labour Party to find a credible leader, and they haven't had one since Tony Blair.

Racist? No. Immigration into the UK is at unsustainable levels. We need many workers in specific areas but don't have the housing for as many immigrants coming in such a short time. The EU is an anti-democratic fuck-up and doesn't allow any control on free movement within the EU, although the greater number of immigrants are from outside the EU. Corbyn and the Labour party have not addressed a significant anti-jewish element within the left. The Conservatives are not free from some racist elements but have a much stronger reaction to identified individuals expressing racist views.

Corbyn and the Labour party LOST this election against a split and disfunctional Conservative party. If they had a competent centrist leader and policies which were attractive instead of socialist dogma that were unaffordable; and a reasonable position on Brexit - they could and should have won. They wrecked their own opportunity.

In 2017 Labour promised to respect the result of the Brexit referendum. In 2019 they offered a biased choice - another referendum with only two choices - either a Labour negotiated exit which Labour statements had made clear would be dictated by the EU, or stop Article 50 and stay. That didn't recognise the people who voted to leave at all and Labour was punished for it.

 

[icanhelp1]

I can understand how the simple minded would come to the conclusions expressed above by the OP in #1.

Although it is tempting to compare Johnson and trump as being similar they are worlds apart. In my opinion Johnson is playing a role, one that he has found brings him base support. Trump on the other hand is just being himself, no playing of roles with him.

I think the key to johnsons success is 3 fold, a strong anti immigration stance, which is racist at its core. Brexit, the Brits want out of this and this too is racist based. And finally Corbyn, the failure of the Labour Party to find a credible leader, and they haven't had one since Tony Blair.

I think the Brit people are tired of radical islamic terrorism and many find Islam a threat to their way of life, 35%, Not very happy with no-go zones. Heard they want individual border security and want move away from the EU's open border policy.

 

[oggbashan]

I think the Brit people are tired of radical islamic terrorism and many find Islam a threat to their way of life, 35%, Not very happy with no-go zones. Heard they want individual border security and want move away from the EU's open border policy.

We don't have no-go zones. But we don't like the EU's open border policy which stops us from refusing entry to known criminals. That is a very minor concern in reality but a few high profile cases have caused anger. We just don't have the infrastructure, particularly housing, to deal with the number of immigrants that have arrived in recent years. We need a reduced level of people coming who we we want to have here and time to provide housing for them.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

. We just don't have the infrastructure, particularly housing, to deal with the number of immigrants that have arrived in recent years. We need a reduced level of people coming who we we want to have here and time to provide housing for them.

Or the investment of dollars from the Government to builds in those increased infrastructure systems.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Compared to Trump, Boris Johnson is a statesman of the highest calibre.

I was impressed in how Johnson handled the whole last couple months since he took over. He showed both strength and courage in calling the election. While I do think the Labour party under performed in the campaign, Johnson still came out with a solid win. I am curious, now that he has time on his side, how exactly he plans to move on with Brexit. Also how he plans to keep the internal strife of both Scotland and Ireland under control too.

 

[oggbashan]

I was impressed in how Johnson handled the whole last couple months since he took over. He showed both strength and courage in calling the election. While I do think the Labour party under performed in the campaign, Johnson still came out with a solid win. I am curious, now that he has time on his side, how exactly he plans to move on with Brexit. Also how he plans to keep the internal strife of both Scotland and Ireland under control too.

Scotland? The figures across Scotland show that more people actually voted against the SNP than for it but the first past the post system helped the SNP gain seats.

If there were to be a referendum on Scottish independence again, the result isn't certain. What the SNP want is for Westminster to piss off the Scots. If the Prime Minister said 'go for it -now!' the SNP might be buggered.

 

[Wrong Element]

There are some major problems with trying to make an analogy between British politics and American politics, the biggest one being that the U.S. has what is in effect a two-party system. The Tories got something like 44 percent of the vote, and you can't win with 44 percent in the U.S. unless there's a major third party as in 1968 or 1860.

The other problem is that the analogy between British Conservatives and American Republicans only goes so far. Johnson ran on increasing spending on the NHS; whether you believe him or not, the fact is that he thought it would be politically beneficial to campaign that way. Meanwhile. the GOP is still officially behind the repeal of the ACA. Denial of climate change is not anywhere close to being a monolithic Tory position the way it is for Republicans.

And a problem specific to this election is Brexit. It's really been the only issue there for several years. It appears that a lot of people voted Conservative because they're tired of the drama over Brexit and just figured that Johnson was going to end it once and for all, for better or worse. Corbyn's party is more divided on Brexit, and for that reason Corbyn himself never seemed comfortable advocating a position.

Once Brexit is in the past and the British people can judge for themselves how well it's worked or hasn't, then a more "normal" politics in the U.K. can resume. My guess is that Johnson's history of being a clown is going to become a liability eventually, but Labour has to come up with a better alternative too.

 

[oggbashan]

Every major British political party has to support the NHS or fail to attract votes. It is a given that the vast majority of the British people value the NHS.

The differences between the parties over the NHS are about how it should be run and funded, not about its existence.

Britain effectively has a two party system except in the devolved parts - Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Only Conservative or Labour can form a UK-wide government. But with a first past the post system for electing Members of Parliament it is the vote in each consistency that decides who gets elected. A simple largest number of votes for one candidate is enough even if the total cast for all others might be greater. In most general elections they is at least a four way choice - Conservative, Labour, Liberal Democrat or Green with some others such as Brexit, independents or oddities such as Christian or Raving Monster Loony. If a candidate gets say 10,001 votes, the next gets 9,999 and the other parties get 15,000 split four ways - the one with 10,001 gets elected even if the votes against are far more.

 

[YDB95]

People don't want socialism, the left is fucked! People are starting to realize nothing is for free.

It isn't the left that's spent the past 40 years telling anyone who will listen that they can cut taxes and balance the budget, all without taking away anything the voters want. History has shown time and again that people DO want clean air, safe water and food, a strong infrastructure, etc. - they just don't want to pay for it. Nothing is for free, indeed.

 

[Dumpington]

YDB95 writes (about the recent Tory landslide in the UK): "History has shown time and again that people DO want clean air, safe water and food, a strong infrastructure, etc. - they just don't want to pay for it."

Okay...? And I suppose that history has shown time and time again that people will listen to children like Greta Thunberg screaming over scientific issues that she has no real understanding of, with some progressive/left-wing publications even naming her their person-of-the-year, but only the Democratic Party will take her angry childish blatherings seriously.

Meanwhile, back to the subject at hand:

May 4, 1979 - Margaret Thatcher wins British elections & becomes the longest-serving British prime minister of the 20th century.

November 4, 1980 - Ronald Reagan win a decisive election victory over President Jimmy Carter, carrying 44 states and receiving 489 electoral votes.

*****************************************************************

June 23, 2016 - British voters defy their government (and pleas from U.S. President Barack Obama) and vote to leave the European Union (aka: BREXIT!)

November 8, 2016 - American voters go to the polls and elect Donald J. Trump to be our nation's 45th president!

*****************************************************************

December 12, 2016 - British elections give Boris Johnson's Conservative Party its biggest majority in parliament since 1987.

November 2020 - (I think we all have a pretty good idea what's going to happen in next year's U.S. presidential elections!)

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Scotland? The figures across Scotland show that more people actually voted against the SNP than for it but the first past the post system helped the SNP gain seats.

And to me, that is the problem. Similar to Quebec here in 1995.

If there were to be a referendum on Scottish independence again, the result isn't certain. What the SNP want is for Westminster to piss off the Scots. If the Prime Minister said 'go for it -now!' the SNP might be buggered.

True, but suspect the SNP will use the same tactics as the Block did/does. Try to work Westminster to be the scourge to the Scots, and paint the SNP as the golden warrior setting them free....

 

[rae121452]

Many on the left have compared Boris Johnson to Donald Trump.

Like with Trump, they have misrepresented Johnson's policies and exaggerated or simply lied about flaws in his character.

Like with Trump, these defamations of Johnson largely backfired.

The USA's left is in denial about their current prospects for the 2020 elections.

Ignoring what just occurred in Britain is the latest manifestation of that denial.

i hate to be the one to break the news, but...the american left and the rest of the world in general just doesn't really give a shit. you have a country the size of a thumbnail who still thinks of itself as 'empire', even though it can't even support its own industries. the uk is fucked because it fucked itself. honestly, who cares?

 

[oggbashan]

i hate to be the one to break the news, but...the american left and the rest of the world in general just doesn't really give a shit. you have a country the size of a thumbnail who still thinks of itself as 'empire', even though it can't even support its own industries. the uk is fucked because it fucked itself. honestly, who cares?

The US might have cared if we had elected Corbyn. He wanted to scrap our nuclear deterrent, was anti-war and anti-american. He might have wanted US bases removed from UK soil and our outlying places such as Cyprus and Diego Garcia which would have degraded US military possibilities.

 

[DMBFFF]

If there were to be a referendum on Scottish independence again, the result isn't certain. What the SNP want is for Westminster to piss off the Scots. If the Prime Minister said 'go for it -now!' the SNP might be buggered.

True, but suspect the SNP will use the same tactics as the Block did/does. Try to work Westminster to be the scourge to the Scots, and paint the SNP as the golden warrior setting them free....

I figure Quebec independence/secession was/is more likely than Scottish independence/secession.

True, they have a good chunk of Britain, but they have about 1/10th the population and thus about 1/10th the economy, presumably more affection for the monarchy, and speak English—however dialectized.

The Bloc works well with minority governments. Trudeau is in as good a position as Harper was 10-15 years ago

the american left and the rest of the world in general just doesn't really give a shit.

Rare in the past 40 years have the Tories run UK while Democrats were in the WH.

you have a country the size of a thumbnail

bigger than Minnesota.

still thinks of itself as 'empire'

6th largest economy.

even though it can't even support its own industries.

It does, including by trade.

honestly, who cares?

apparently not you.

 

[oggbashan]

I figure Quebec independence/secession was/is more likely than Scottish independence/secession.

True, they have a good chunk of Britain, but they have about 1/10th the population and thus about 1/10th the economy, presumably more affection for the monarchy, and speak English—however dialectized.

The Bloc works well with minority governments. Trudeau is in as good a position as Harper was 10-15 years ago


...

The Scottish economy is propped up by North Sea Oil which is a diminishing resource. An independent Scotland could go broke, particularly if they insisted the nuclear submarine base and the thousands of well paid jobs have to go too. An independent Scotland might be viable but barely.

 

[DawnONight]

I can understand how the simple minded would come to the conclusions expressed above by the OP in #1.

Although it is tempting to compare Johnson and trump as being similar they are worlds apart. In my opinion Johnson is playing a role, one that he has found brings him base support. Trump on the other hand is just being himself, no playing of roles with him.

I think the key to johnsons success is 3 fold, a strong anti immigration stance, which is racist at its core. Brexit, the Brits want out of this and this too is racist based. And finally Corbyn, the failure of the Labour Party to find a credible leader, and they haven't had one since Tony Blair.

Interesting comments.

Original post: "Many on the left have compared Boris Johnson to Donald Trump."

Your reply: "I can understand how the simple minded would come to the conclusions expressed above...."

I'm glad you recognize that the Left is simple minded.

Your point-by-point analysis of why Johnson won:

1. Immigration ("a strong anti immigration stance"): You would say Trump has the same position, wouldn't you?

2. Nationalism/Sovereignty ("Brexit, the Brits want out of this"): another Trump value, right?

3. Weak Opposition ("the failure of the Labour Party to find a credible leader"): Have you seen what the Democrats are running?​

So, what can we expect in the USA next November?

 

[DMBFFF]

The Scottish economy is propped up by North Sea Oil which is a diminishing resource. An independent Scotland could go broke, particularly if they insisted the nuclear submarine base and the thousands of well paid jobs have to go too. An independent Scotland might be viable but barely.

Didn't Venezuela ride high on all those petro-dollars some years back?

De-denuclearize? Yeah that didn't work well for Ukraine either.

I wonder if they'll release more sickly Libyan bombers who will miraculously heal when they get home.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_status_of_Orkney,_Shetland_and_the_Western_Isles

A movement called Wir Shetland was launched in October 2015[27] to secede from the rest of Scotland in favour of becoming either a Crown Dependency or a British Overseas Territory, as a means of achieving greater autonomy for the Shetland Isles.[28]

Offshore banking, holding companies, and even more flexibility in government.



Agreed, I can see it working, but it might take a long time to return to pre-independence PCIs. Ireland took several decades, and I presume their position vis-à-vis the EEC was better than Scotland would be now, and religion was more of a motivation. My comments about Brexit applies even more with Scottish independence. Don't BS the people: Scots aren't dumb.



(some relatively quick thoughts)
Johnson and Trump.
1. Johnson probably had to hustle more than Trump.
2. He's probably smarter.
3. He became British PM at 55. Trump didn't become president until he was 69.
4. probably twitters less
5. His Tories got more votes than Labour. Clinton got more popular votes.
6. He doesn't seem to be as protectionist.
7. Who's going to be Britain's Nancy Pelosi?
8. Speaking of which, Trump isn't the Prime Minister of the US, he's just its President.

 

[oggbashan]

](some relatively quick thoughts)[/color]
Johnson and Trump.
1. Johnson probably had to hustle more than Trump.
2. He's probably smarter.
3. He became British PM at 55. Trump didn't become president until he was 69.
4. probably twitters less
5. His Tories got more votes than Labour. Clinton got more popular votes.
6. He doesn't seem to be as protectionist.
7. Who's going to be Britain's Nancy Pelosi?
8. Speaking of which, Trump isn't the Prime Minister of the US, he's just its President.

The Prime Minister of the UK has less power than a US President. Our Head of State is still Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth 11 (or 1 in Scotland) who has even less power than the Prime Minister.

 

[stickygirl]

American Litsters: please don't believe everything posted about UK politics here. Too much over-simplified, glossed-over BS. If you prefer to believe The Sun, Daily Mail, Telegraph and News Statesman, then lap it up. The truth is out there, but it's best not to trust Murdoch's media .