Unpasteurized Milk

[CandiCame]

So I was reading this article about people who want to be able to buy milk in it's still-poisonous, e-coli ridden, salmalicious state, and the FDA's like, "No, you can't just buy a big gallon jug of poison". And I'm sitting here, reading this, smoking a cigarette after I finished making cookies and eating all the raw cookie dough left in the bowl, and it doesn't sit right with me. The people advocating this say that the non-pasteurized milk taste better, and they are, presumably, adults. So I don't get why they aren't allowed to legally poison themselves. I guess they're afraid that because it's milk, kids will get in it, in the same way that a kid can potentially get a white Russian, but, IDK. Seems weird to me.

 

[Not Normal]

I think Milk is quite different from vices like cigarettes or booze. Its not like "toxic" milk can be used in moderation and won't cause a problem.

 

[Que]

There's a great episode of Chef on PBS (I think it was a BBC series) about him going to the countryside and doing a drug-style deal for some illegal unpasteurized Stilton.

 

[CandiCame]

There's a great episode of Chef on PBS (I think it was a BBC series) about him going to the countryside and doing a drug-style deal for some illegal unpasteurized Stilton.

Jesus Christ, it must be good then.

 

[butters]

maybe it's really down to what it costs in terms of medical care for those who get sick, the dangers to the foetus if pregnant women eat unpasteurised milk-products (very very bad) and, overall, general standards of public health which (i'd imagine) are better for having the pasteurising process in place. maybe it's just about someone making money they'd rather not lose out on if things revert.

just went and took a look - it seems the restrictions are area/cultural specific, and that listeriosis isn't necessarily killed by pasteurisation. guess a whole lot depends on the kind of farming undertaken, how much good husbandry's involved compared to cost-cutting for profit. seems to me that if the standards are good and the food is clearly labelled as having used 'raw milk', and people are aware of the possible dangers, then it should be ok. since those three don't always come together in a neat package, safety has to be a concern.

 

[Que]

Jesus Christ, it must be good then.

You know...its funny I am kind of a dilettante foodie. Unschooled. I like new things, I like to cook, I like to experiment. (boysenberry terryaki just for an example was a fail.)

I wondered after the episode for years wtf is Stilton?? I don't remeber how I figured it out, I think in another recipe somewhere...Stilton is Roquefort not made in a cave in France. It's like how the french call German Shepards, "Alsatians." No one wants to admit that the other country has something good so they re-label it.

Some actual foodie will probably explain the nuanced differences between the two, but they are both delicious moldy blue (or bleu) cheeses.

 

[butters]

You know...its funny I am kind of a dilettante foodie. Unschooled. I like new things, I like to cook, I like to experiment. (boysenberry terryaki just for an example was a fail.)

I wondered after the episode for years wtf is Stilton?? I don't remeber how I figured it out, I think in another recipe somewhere...Stilton is Roquefort not made in a cave in France. It's like how the french call German Shepards, "Alsatians." No one wants to admit that the other country has something good so they re-label it.

Some actual foodie will probably explain the nuanced differences between the two, but they are both delicious moldy blue (or bleu) cheeses.

different animals - sheep's milk for roquefort and cow's milk for stilton - taste and appearance are different, with the stilton being a creamy colour and the roquefort having whiter appearance. there's also something about the R having the penecillin spores injected with a needle which makes it look different again.

 

[about_average]

Jesus Christ, it must be good then.

It is good.
In the 70's my dad and I made arrangements with a semi-local farmer to stop on the way home from work and get a couple gallons direct from the holding tank in his milk house.
We used it for everything you'd use milk for: drinking, ice cream, cooking, eggnog, making butter (let the cream rise then skim it off and churn it), etc.
I really miss it. Milk carton milk, even organic, is no where near as good.

The downside is that you get the flavor in the milk of what the cows (or goats, I used to get raw goats milk too) have been eating. It's shock if they found lots of wild onions.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Growing up, we had milk delivery service to the house twice a week. You could choose from pasteurized milk or "certified" (unpasteurized) milk. The latter was much more expensive.

 

[about_average]

there's also something about the R having the penecillin spores injected with a needle which makes it look different again.

My understanding is that originally the spores were naturally occurring in the caves, but are now mostly cultured in a lab because too many people don't like variation in their food.

 

[RobDownSouth]

It is good.
In the 70's my dad and I made arrangements with a semi-local farmer to stop on the way home from work and get a couple gallons direct from the holding tank in his milk house.
We used it for everything you'd use milk for: drinking, ice cream, cooking, eggnog, making butter (let the cream rise then skim it off and churn it), etc.
I really miss it. Milk carton milk, even organic, is no where near as good.

The downside is that you get the flavor in the milk of what the cows (or goats, I used to get raw goats milk too) have been eating. It's shock if they found lots of wild onions.

Did you ever wonder if unpasteurized milk might be the reason your left leg is an inch shorter than your right leg?
(I keed! I keed!)

 

[CandiCame]

It is good.
In the 70's my dad and I made arrangements with a semi-local farmer to stop on the way home from work and get a couple gallons direct from the holding tank in his milk house.
We used it for everything you'd use milk for: drinking, ice cream, cooking, eggnog, making butter (let the cream rise then skim it off and churn it), etc.
I really miss it. Milk carton milk, even organic, is no where near as good.

The downside is that you get the flavor in the milk of what the cows (or goats, I used to get raw goats milk too) have been eating. It's shock if they found lots of wild onions.

See, you're not dead.

I still wouldn't give to my kid, but as an adult, I think that you should be able to drink it if you want it. What's the difference? In taste, I mean. It's gotta be damn good if people are willing to risk food poisoning AND do drug-deal type transactions to get it.

 

[butters]

My understanding is that originally the spores were naturally occurring in the caves, but are now mostly cultured in a lab because too many people don't like variation in their food.

i expect they were. makes sense. all i know is that the penicilin spores are either mixed in at some stage of the process (curds, i think) or, in the case of roquefort, injected which also admits air to allow the bacterial growth. more about appearances maybe. the big difference, though, is the sheep/cow milk as ingredient.

 

[RedAllan]

I remember the milk deliveries in the UK offering a choice of pasteurized and unpasteurized milk, has did the corner shop, I think the unpasteurized came in different shaped bottles.

 

[CandiCame]

maybe it's really down to what it costs in terms of medical care for those who get sick, the dangers to the foetus if pregnant women eat unpasteurised milk-products (very very bad) and, overall, general standards of public health which (i'd imagine) are better for having the pasteurising process in place. maybe it's just about someone making money they'd rather not lose out on if things revert.

just went and took a look - it seems the restrictions are area/cultural specific, and that listeriosis isn't necessarily killed by pasteurisation. guess a whole lot depends on the kind of farming undertaken, how much good husbandry's involved compared to cost-cutting for profit. seems to me that if the standards are good and the food is clearly labelled as having used 'raw milk', and people are aware of the possible dangers, then it should be ok. since those three don't always come together in a neat package, safety has to be a concern.

I was thinking that same thing. Slap a warning label on it like a pack of cigs. Because, again, it's not one of those things that you don't know is bad for you. Like to cookie dough I ate earlier, I KNOW I can get food poisoning, but I ate it because cookie dough is fucking delicious. Cookie dough has a warning on it. http://www.momstakeonthings.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/TollHouseCookieDoughBarLabelInstructions2.jpg

I mean, mine didn't because I made it from scratch, but prepacked does. But my eggs were just as uncooked as the ones that Nestle uses. My point is, there's a system in place for companies to cover their ass.

Tho it does say something about us as a society that we have to put warning labels telling you not to eat uncooked food.

 

[about_average]

I rarely use dough from the store, maybe once a year when I want cookies but am too tired to make them. I'd never eat cookie dough I bought.
I have no qualms at all eating dough I make.

 

[about_average]

Did you ever wonder if unpasteurized milk might be the reason your left leg is an inch shorter than your right leg?
(I keed! I keed!)

That's my middle leg.

















I'm only 3' tall.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I grew up on farm milk.





I would not sell it even of it was legal. Too much liability, too many people looking for someone to sue.

 

[CandiCame]

I grew up on farm milk.





I would not sell it even of it was legal. Too much liability, too many people looking for someone to sue.

Yeah, but you pasturise farm milk, right? I mean, my aunt raises cows and I drink that all the time, and it doesn't taste any different from organic milk. I mean all you do is boil the germs out of it. It's not like you need a lab or anything.

 

[Que]

different animals - sheep's milk for roquefort and cow's milk for stilton - taste and appearance are different, with the stilton being a creamy colour and the roquefort having whiter appearance. there's also something about the R having the penecillin spores injected with a needle which makes it look different again.

Ha.

right on cue.

I have had Roquefort, but not Stilton. I never realized it was from sheep's milk.

I don't think I have ever had proper mozzarella, isn't it supposed to be from water buffalo?

 

[glynndah]

See, you're not dead.

I still wouldn't give to my kid, but as an adult, I think that you should be able to drink it if you want it. What's the difference? In taste, I mean. It's gotta be damn good if people are willing to risk food poisoning AND do drug-deal type transactions to get it.

The problem, it seems to me, is that since milk is a product presumed to be primarily consumed by children, how are you going to sell it to be used "only" to adults?

There is also this to consider: Pound for pound, children consume much more of their body weight in milk and their immune systems aren't always as adept at dealing with germs and the like so they may have much more severe reactions from drinking unpasteurized milk whereas an adult may be able to just shake it off.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Yeah, but you pasturise farm milk, right? I mean, my aunt raises cows and I drink that all the time, and it doesn't taste any different from organic milk. I mean all you do is boil the germs out of it. It's not like you need a lab or anything.

No, we drank it straight from the pitcher, still warm and frothy...

 

[glynndah]

I rarely use dough from the store, maybe once a year when I want cookies but am too tired to make them. I'd never eat cookie dough I bought.
I have no qualms at all eating dough I make.

I wouldn't eat store-bought dough, either, but I have no problems eating the dough I make. Since I'm usually eggs from the chickens in my backyard and I know the conditions they're living in, salmonella {the usual issue behind the warnings} isn't an issue for me.

 

[CandiCame]

I wouldn't eat store-bought dough, either, but I have no problems eating the dough I make. Since I'm usually eggs from the chickens in my backyard and I know the conditions they're living in, salmonella {the usual issue behind the warnings} isn't an issue for me.

Isn't it? Because I know that my chickens shit in their own water. And their hay. And their children. And they're really rapey. They're not a clean society, is my point. Cleaning up after him is a ridiculous, time consuming task. I kind of hate them. I only like to eat animals that I personally have a vendetta against.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

They are fowl creatures...