Universal Declaration of Human Rights

[REDWAVE]

Harbinger

First, that article is an Op/Ed piece, not a news article. In other words, it is openly presented as just the opinion of its author, not fact.

Secondly, evidently you didn't even read the whole piece, just selectively quoted what you found useful. Here's another quote from that very same article:

"Officials at Amnesty International, long a prime source of these repellant accounts, grow indignant when they hear their exposes repeated by George Bush and Tony Blair, men whose motives they regard as impure.

'The selective attention to human rights is nothing but a cold and calculated manipulation of the work of human rights activists,' declared Irene Kahn, the secretary general of Amnesty. . ."


In all the political debates I have had, the one thing which strikes me the most is the blatant and overwhelming intellectual dishonesty of my opponents, with very few exceptions.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Oh fuck me.... I actually went back and read your thread post.

This is about the UN?????
Give me a break, the most worthless intstitution created by mankind. Shit.

 

[Ham Murabi]

Oh fuck me.... I actually went back and read your thread post.

This is about the UN?????
Give me a break, the most worthless intstitution created by mankind. Shit.

Amen to that.

And Redwave, the next time you go out pick me up a quarter-pounder with cheese.

 

[REDWAVE]

Thanks, Rosie

Thanks, Rosie, for being so predictable. I was waiting for someone to say that.

Most worthless institution? Even worse than the Soviet Union?

 

[JazzManJim]

Re: The UDHR is international law

The UDHR is international law binding on the U.S.-- at least in theory. The practical problem is how to enforce it on "the world's only superpower."

No, the problem is how to enforce it on anyone.

The UN has no full-time law-enforcement personnel. It's dependent on the member nations to supply any forces it might need to enforce whatever it beleives enforceable.

And beyond that, any potential violation is not subject to a certain codified penalty. The penalties are subjective and may not even be enforced at all which makes it not only useless as law of any sort, but barely worth being called a treaty.

The problem is that the UN has to be consistent in enforcement and have a ready means to enforce any violations. It lacks both.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Thanks, Rosie

Thanks, Rosie, for being so predictable. I was waiting for someone to say that.

Most worthless institution? Even worse than the Soviet Union?

The Soviet Union is not a fair comparison. But they are on equal parity. And look what happened to the USSR...

Name me one successful thing the UN has engaged in. I am sure whatever you name, it can be debunked.

 

[A Desert Rose]

As JazzMan has so well stated, the UN has NO power, no teeth, not even a decent bark. It is the most impotent organization and we are fools to support it in any fashion.

 

[Ham Murabi]

Re: Harbinger

"Officials at Amnesty International, long a prime source of these repellant accounts, grow indignant when they hear their exposes repeated by George Bush and Tony Blair, men whose motives they regard as impure.

'The selective attention to human rights is nothing but a cold and calculated manipulation of the work of human rights activists,' declared Irene Kahn, the secretary general of Amnesty. . ."


In all the political debates I have had, the one thing which strikes me the most is the blatant and overwhelming intellectual dishonesty of my opponents, with very few exceptions.

So what's Amnesty International's beef? Do they not care about the plight of common Iraqis? If they do, shouldn't they welcome regime change?
Would the common man (you know, Redwave, the one you are looking out for) in Iraq be better off without Saddam? Seems to me losing Saddam would go along way toward fulfilling the fantasy spelled out by the U.N.

 

[ma_guy]

It's interesting that the first item listed in this Declaration is "Everyone has the right to work" yet REDWAVE consistantly bitches and whines about how all those nasty "Right to work" laws in the US are destroying us...

So tell us REDWAVE, why is it ok for YOU systematically violate our rights?

 

[Harbinger]

Re: Harbinger

First, that article is an Op/Ed piece, not a news article. In other words, it is openly presented as just the opinion of its author, not fact.

Bullshit. So the stories of Iraqi torture are not true? Because a piece is Op/Ed makes it a work of fiction?

Secondly, evidently you didn't even read the whole piece,

More bullshit.

just selectively quoted what you found useful. Here's another quote from that very same article:

"Officials at Amnesty International, long a prime source of these repellant accounts, grow indignant when they hear their exposes repeated by George Bush and Tony Blair, men whose motives they regard as impure.

'The selective attention to human rights is nothing but a cold and calculated manipulation of the work of human rights activists,' declared Irene Kahn, the secretary general of Amnesty. . ."

What gives you the slightest inkling what I think about Bush? I happen to agree with the piece, and feel that if we are going to hold up the standards of Liberty and Freedom, we should do it universally, and not just when it is convenient to our interests.

In all the political debates I have had, the one thing which strikes me the most is the blatant and overwhelming intellectual dishonesty of my opponents, with very few exceptions.

Now THAT'S the pot calling the Georg Jensen handmade sterling silver tea kettle black. What strikes me is how you respond to people disagreeing with you by putting words into their mouths. They disagree on one point, and you start listing all the other things you don't like. With very few exceptions.

 

[REDWAVE]

Desert Rose

Never mind the U.N. for a moment. I want to go back to something you asked me, Rose, that I just read. You asked if I had ever worked for MacDonald's. No, but a long time ago I did work for a franchisee of Burger King in New Jersey as an assistant manager. I don't usually talk about my personal life here much, because I know the reactionaries will eagerly seize upon anything I divulge about myself to try to use it against me. But let me tell you a little about that experience.

As a manager, I was better off than the crew members (most of whom were teenagers, high schoolers making some spending money), but it still was a demanding job with low pay and long hours. Even Restaurant Managers didn't make that much, considering the enormous responsibility they were burdened with. I often had to do extra work without pay just to keep my job. Lower level management like myself was constantly being reamed by the higher ups-- and that included even the very best managers, with the best numbers. The big bosses fucked even with them big time.

We were constantly told to push our teenage crews as hard as possible, and pay them as little as possible. "Give 'em a nickel an hour raise," I remember our District Manager saying to us, with a twinkle in his eye, "they love it." We were expected to get a $10/hour job out of kids who were making about $5/hour. Officially, Burger King (and its franchisees) had a policy of throwing away sandwiches which had been sitting under the heat lamps more than 10 minutes. But our District Manager told us (strictly off the record, of course) just to change the markings on the boxes, to make it look like the sandwiches had only been sitting there 10 minutes or less. To actually throw the sandwiches away would be too much waste, and cut into corporate profits. But his most memorable quote was about the method of preparing french fries: "We finally decided, to hell with people's stomachs-- we want to make money!"

So a job at MacDonald's (or any place like it)-- No, thanks!

 

[A Desert Rose]

Oh my.

I have only this to say to you RED.... Welcome to the real world. There is no Utopia, never was, never will be. We work, we try to make ends meet, we look for happiness and we go back to work again.

I have had shit jobs too, and might again in the future. But one does what one has to at any given time.

 

[SINthysist]

Re: Thanks, Rosie

Most worthless institution? Even worse than the Soviet Union?

Actually, the Soviet Union was quite useful as a working study of what happens when your idiology is given its fair chance.

 

[SINthysist]

And quite often the young get the shit jobs. As it should be. They'll improve their circumstances as they age and mature. Like you should have...

 

[SINthysist]

Nice to see YOU did not stand up for YOUR principles...

Or did you?

 

[A Desert Rose]

And quite often the young get the shit jobs. As it should be. They'll improve their circumstances as they age and mature. Like you should have...

Ditto that remark.

 

[Harbinger]

They have McDonald's in Russia now. Maybe we should poll the employees there, see if they want REDWAVE to explain it all to them.

 

[SINthysist]

If REDWAVE is indicative of Burger King's hires, it's no wonder they've had business difficulties.

 

[SINthysist]

In Beijing, too.

He could have his pick of Utopias.

 

[Harbinger]

It's his latent Burger King loyalties that make him hate McDonald's so much. A Company Man to the bone.

 

[SINthysist]

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