Unions = Organized crime

[Dazzle1]

The Labor union movement is no better than the Mafia.

They should be prosecuted

 

[BoyNextDoor]

The Labor union movement is no better than the Mafia.

They should be prosecuted

Sure. As long as you also prosecute the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association.

 

[Exquisition]

The Labor union movement is no better than the Mafia.

They should be prosecuted

Beans = farting episodes

 

[unregistered]

 

[Exquisition]

Shit for brains=Liberal

How come?

 

[Lokishoney]

The Labor union movement is no better than the Mafia.

They should be prosecuted

The concept is needed and the original intent is valid, however, like everything else touched and managed by human hands, the system needs overhauled.

First and foremost, the cautionary knowledge of the corrupting influence of human greed and abuse of power should be kept firmly in place as a ruler to measure the level of effectiveness the organization is maintaining.

In a perfect world, unions would work towards the mutual benefit of both company and worker as both need the other for survival. But, as long as two-legged, ego-driven animals are involved, we're screwed.

 

[chillywilly2]

Shit for brains=Liberal

The world belongs to all of its inhabitants...not just the ones with money

 

[unregistered]

 

[chillywilly2]

Because it's a form of mental illness.

So, wanting to be fair with people is a sign of a sick mind but being greedy and wanting to walk all over everybody is good.

 

[shoulderblade]

In a perfect world, unions would work towards the mutual benefit of both company and worker as both need the other for survival. But, as long as two-legged, ego-driven animals are involved, we're screwed.

I am sure therer are situations where company and union work well together for mutual beneifit it is just that we never hear about them. When we hear about unions it is almost always in a conflict (often irrational) situation where productivity is stalled and often tyhere is considerable damade to innocent third parties.

A perfect example of this is the present National Hockey League lockout, You have rich players and even richer owners stuck for an agreement on a number of issues. Meanwhile the fans have no games and a lot of little people who depend on the league for a modest living are out of work.

The problem seems to be that the company and union lock up in a battle mode that makes them oblivious to the big picture.

 

[Lokishoney]

I am sure therer are situations where company and union work well together for mutual beneifit it is just that we never hear about them. When we hear about unions it is almost always in a conflict (often irrational) situation where productivity is stalled and often tyhere is considerable damade to innocent third parties.

Good point... and I agree.

But with the undeniable evidence of a prevalent abuse of power and self preservation on both sides, I believe the system is over-due for restructuring.

And I am still of a mind that neither side would be able to achieve a full and positive comprehension of working towards unity for the good of the whole as opposed to preserving their own interests first and foremost. Unfortunately, the reality of human nature requires an impartial system of checks and balances to sustain a fair environment for workers.

 

[LiFeNdEaTh]

if you say so...

 

[Shagly]

G.M. vehicles, "Made in China".

 

[Exquisition]

Because it's a form of mental illness.

Sources?

Let's have a credible post from you for a change not based upon your personal opinion and ignorance.

 

[Mike_Yates]

The Labor union movement is no better than the Mafia.

They should be prosecuted

Labor unions and organized crime work hand and hand. The Jimmy Hoffa incident is proof of this.

 

[badbabysitter]

No , this is organized crime...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libor_scandal

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324478304578171650887467568.html


unless you consider fraud and money laundering " job creation"

 

[shoulderblade]

But with the undeniable evidence of a prevalent abuse of power and self preservation on both sides, I believe the system is over-due for restructuring.

And I am still of a mind that neither side would be able to achieve a full and positive comprehension of working towards unity for the good of the whole as opposed to preserving their own interests first and foremost. Unfortunately, the reality of human nature requires an impartial system of checks and balances to sustain a fair environment for workers.

Realistically there does not seem to be a lot available in the way of options. "Right to work" legitlation more or less undercuts the ability of unions to raise funds to support themselves. Removing the right to strike also removes the unions primary leverage in negotiations.
Dark days for unions, I think, given that most workers are not unionized and generally do not have the wages and benifits that they enjoy.

 

[Liar]

Realistically there does not seem to be a lot available in the way of options. "Right to work" legitlation more or less undercuts the ability of unions to raise funds to support themselves. Removing the right to strike also removes the unions primary leverage in negotiations.
Dark days for unions, I think, given that most workers are not unionized and generally do not have the wages and benifits that they enjoy.

Look at you two, having a sensible and nuanced discussion in a Dazzle thread.

 

[Lokishoney]

Realistically there does not seem to be a lot available in the way of options. "Right to work" legitlation more or less undercuts the ability of unions to raise funds to support themselves. Removing the right to strike also removes the unions primary leverage in negotiations.
Dark days for unions, I think, given that most workers are not unionized and generally do not have the wages and benifits that they enjoy.

Well stated and absolutely correct. There are no feasible options that can be applied from within the general mindset of the human population. To me the root of this issue (and many like it) is firmly entrenched in flawed human nature.

As you point out, current legislation grinds the situation to near impasse, along with other problems. Unfortunately, the wheels of said legislation are heavily greased by those loyal to the interest of the "owners" who have more money, power, backing and time at their disposal than the Union Representatives. And, let's face it, the majority of the "owners" are more focused on profit margin than cultivating a valued, loyal work force.

On the other hand, the majority of today's workers do not seem to possess the work-ethic, dedication, unity or farsightedness needed to prompt a willingness towards doing the work to their fullest ability let alone making the necessary sacrifices to ensure the future.

IMHO, "individuals" have become so consumed with the need to present an over-blown life status by acquiring accoutrements (mostly useless) and "trophy" moments that the understanding of working towards the unified preservation of their rights, their jobs, or the work force is a non-concept.

That is not to say that the situation should be abandoned out of a sense of hopelessness. We should strive constantly towards improvement - in any endeavor. The problem is, either from laziness or overloaded with commitments, most have the tendency to set something in motion and then walk away with the false idea that the machine will tend itself. Time and again, we have seen that it does not. However, there are too few willing to make the sacrifice of watchfulness with the good of others in mind.

~ A personal aside - Hats off to your debate style, sir. It is a pleasant surprise to find a calm, articulate presentation of opinions and ideals on this forum. Thank you.

 

[Lokishoney]

Look at you two, having a sensible and nuanced discussion in a Dazzle thread.

LMAO! I know. Right? If this keeps happening I might actually have a valid reason for coming to this insane asylum...

 

[mercury14]

G.M. vehicles, "Made in China".

Because then they can cars in the Chinese market without eating their massive import tariff. Why do you oppose this?

 

[Exquisition]

Labor unions and organized crime work hand and hand. The Jimmy Hoffa incident is proof of this.

Yeah, cos they haven't changed one lil bitty bit nor labour laws in the DECADES since good ol Hoff meister was in the pocket of the Cosa Nostra.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Not to get all meta here, but conservative pyschology interests me. There's such intense resentment at the notion of the weak upsetting the naturally ordained balance of power by ganging up on the strong ("organizing").

At the heart of the conservative soul there seems to be a voice screaming out:

"I am the strong, I have gained my status and power in this world through triumph in the struggle, and now the undeserving impudent weak who could not defeat me mano a mano seek to take what is rightfully mine away from me by cowardly collusion, plotting and intrigue"

You see this in all phases of conservative thought about any topic. It's absolutely maddening to a certain type of personality that the many weak can defeat the few strong.

 

[Exquisition]

Not to get all meta here, but conservative pyschology interests me. There's such intense resentment at the notion of the weak upsetting the naturally ordained balance of power by ganging up on the strong ("organizing").

At the heart of the conservative soul there seems to be a voice screaming out:

"I am the strong, I have gained my status and power in this world through triumph in the struggle, and now the undeserving impudent weak who could not defeat me mano a mano seek to take what is rightfully mine away from me by cowardly collusion, plotting and intrigue"

You see this in all phases of conservative thought about any topic. It's absolutely maddening to a certain type of personality that the many weak can defeat the few strong.

'Success' is the result of many factors but some or all of the following have a role to play:

luck, connections, looking attractive, the face fitting, being socially erudite, having charisma, having intelligence as well as good old hard graft.

Many of the above are 'accidents', dints of birth. How many people have been denied in history by having the odds stacked against them?

People choose to live in societies presumably because it gives them advantages. With such a choice comes an unwritten contract or responsibility for all people in that society.

The reason why Republicans are so vocal in their defence of the status quo?

Fear.

 

[shoulderblade]

IMHO, "individuals" have become so consumed with the need to present an over-blown life status by acquiring accoutrements (mostly useless) and "trophy" moments that the understanding of working towards the unified preservation of their rights, their jobs, or the work force is a non-concept.

That is not to say that the situation should be abandoned out of a sense of hopelessness. We should strive constantly towards improvement - in any endeavor. The problem is, either from laziness or overloaded with commitments, most have the tendency to set something in motion and then walk away with the false idea that the machine will tend itself. Time and again, we have seen that it does not. However, there are too few willing to make the sacrifice of watchfulness with the good of others in mind.
.

Welcome to the board, nice to meet you. I have been here for several years as I find that there are a number of posters who are artiulate, creative, well read, funny or who have an extensive knowledge on certain topics. If you put all the gonzos on ignore you can thin out the traffic and make it a much more manageable and lucid experience than it would otherwise be. As per style I took Chemistry in university and can only type with two fingers so I stay concise and am immune to rants or sudden outbursts.

I think I get your point on the "human character" side. It looks like once people achieve a certain level of privlidge they not only want more but seem to think they deserve more. It is like they are living in a bubble world cut off from the rest of society.

An "in real time" example of this is the National Hockey League lockout. For the third time in the last few years there is no product in the market. Rich players and even richer owners argue their issues meanwhile the fans and all the people who make a modest living on the league are completely cut out. This situation has attracted a lot of attention as it is repetitive and ridiculous. It is not as if they could not see the "end of contract' deadline coming.

I read something interesting re. the emergence of greed in recent years. It was on the 1% thing and the increasing concentration of wealth into fewer hands. Their idea was that in the 50's and 60's, when the American economy was very dominant on the global scene, US business people could stay home with their own people and do all that needed to be done. Globalization brought more travel and more exposure to outside cultures and thus less attachment to America and their own people thus a reduced inclination to share.

I think the strike/lockout feature of labor relations is the real glitch as it implies an inherent hostility.

Look at you two, having a sensible and nuanced discussion in a Dazzle thread.

Hmmmm. I guess I am a topic poster. I never even noticed Dazzle.