Understanding People

[UnseenChagrin]

This may get moved to the General Board, but I feel it should be posted here. I'm not a psychologist, or even a psych student, but today I had some prominent musings about people. I guess these are things I can't grasp, and in a way I am searching for how I can relate.

*Why would anyone want to intentionally destroy the happiness of another?

*Why are people so frightened of being honest, when the consequences of lying are so much worse.

*Why must we see each other as fundamentally different to the extent that we can no longer communicate or cooperate?

*What is it in us that allows us to believe we can achieve anything if we work hard enough, but nothing will change no matter how hard we try?

*Why do people fix their televisions before they fix their families?

*How can a person be so blind to walk over the poverty-stricken, deaf to the cries of the suffering, and so outspoken about celebrity relationships?

*Why would anyone wake up in the morning and try to make it through another day they didn't intend to remember?

 

[fgarvb1]

Damn those are easy questions.

Start with Genesis

 

[Stiffy Says...]

good questions.....

...I spend (some say too much) time pondering them often...

wish I had answers that weren't depressing....like Durkheim's anomie theory, or that we are really just simple, easily manipulated creatures, or well intentioned but misguided...

let me know if you come up with any good answers, I could use them

 

[Willing and Unsure]

*Why would anyone want to intentionally destroy the happiness of another?

Some people that are unhappy choose to ruin others good happy moods and whatnot so that they arent the only one that is unhappy. And people do this everyday.


*Why are people so frightened of being honest, when the consequences of lying are so much worse.

Some people are afraid of what is ahead if they are honest, and then think that it may just be easier to lie about it.


*Why must we see each other as fundamentally different to the extent that we can no longer communicate or cooperate?

I dont have an answer for this one.


*What is it in us that allows us to believe we can achieve anything if we work hard enough, but nothing will change no matter how hard we try?

couldnt tell ya



*Why do people fix their televisions before they fix their families?

some people have the opinion that if they pretend the problem isnt there, then it isnt. It's the worst feeling inthe world to the person with the problem that someone that is supposed to be really close to them doesnt seem to care.


*How can a person be so blind to walk over the poverty-stricken, deaf to the cries of the suffering, and so outspoken about celebrity relationships?

some people dont like to look at the bad parts of reality.


*Why would anyone wake up in the morning and try to make it through another day they didn't intend to remember?

they dont have a reason to die, but no reason to live either....


that's the best I can do, hope it helps.

 

[MelissaDyan]

Re: Re: Understanding People

*Why would anyone wake up in the morning and try to make it through another day they didn't intend to remember?

they dont have a reason to die, but no reason to live either....

Some of us just breathe a sigh of relief to have made it at all.

 

[Bobmi357]

*Why would anyone want to intentionally destroy the happiness of another?

- Some people have grudges and will intentionally ruin the happiness of the person they hold the grudge against. And then there is the old axiom, "Misery loves company". It is more true that you'd want to believe.

*Why are people so frightened of being honest, when the consequences of lying are so much worse.

- Honesty = Vunerability. If I bare my soul to you I am laying before your feet a set of weapons you can use against me. Weapons for which I would have no defense and therefore would be most damaging. Lying or telling only partial truths is a defense mechanism. Its a way of our protecting our deepest fears and concerns and keeping our vunerabilities hidden.

*Why must we see each other as fundamentally different to the extent that we can no longer communicate or cooperate?

- Perhaps its because we ARE fundamentally different. National and Religious ethics instill different sets of values upon people. Cooperation is only possible when both parties are willing to talk to each other. As long as both parties hide behind their ethical identities, that isn't going to happen.

*What is it in us that allows us to believe we can achieve anything if we work hard enough, but nothing will change no matter how hard we try?

- You change what you can, accept what you cannot change. Its that simple. We hold a certain amount of control over our individual lives, but there are external influences over which we have no control.

*Why do people fix their televisions before they fix their families?

- Fixing televisions is far easier to do than fixing interpersonal relationships. It all goes back to that honesty thing.

*How can a person be so blind to walk over the poverty-stricken, deaf to the cries of the suffering, and so outspoken about celebrity relationships?

- Unless those poverty striken are in your face all the time, we don't see them. But we do see the celibrities, they are forced into our faces every day on tv, newspapers, magazines etc..

*Why would anyone wake up in the morning and try to make it through another day they didn't intend to remember?

- Because today is temporary and tomorrow might be better. Suicide is permanent.

 

[fsumusic1981]

I'll answer some of these for you.

*Why would anyone want to intentionally destroy the happiness of another?

Because some people are that unhappy.

*Why are people so frightened of being honest, when the consequences of lying are so much worse.

Because it's easier.

*Why must we see each other as fundamentally different to the extent that we can no longer communicate or cooperate?

Capitalism needs it to be this way. As soon as we see our similarities and how alot of our dissatisfaction in life is created and unnecessary, we will begin to foment some kind of disgust with the system that creates such dissatisfaction and unhappiness.

*What is it in us that allows us to believe we can achieve anything if we work hard enough, but nothing will change no matter how hard we try?

Capitalism needs it to be this way. Capitalism needs to get us to think we can do everything we want, but then make us feel helpless and isolated. The perfect recipe for alienation, the feeling that in its purest forms turns us into atoms of consumption.

*Why do people fix their televisions before they fix their families?

Uh. Because TV lets us escape. Why fix your family when your TV will cover it up? It's like drinking to hide your sorrows, a much easier solution. Except that TV doesn't kill your body, just your mind and heart. And why is TV so damned addictive? Because it lets us escape our alienation and isolation. We start to see TV characters as 'real' friends, when we should know good and well they are fictitious. Ever notice how unneighborly neighborhoods are now? Thank TV for that. No, gay marraige and the ACLU aren't destroying America, it's TV and the unrelenting advertising that fuels it.

*How can a person be so blind to walk over the poverty-stricken, deaf to the cries of the suffering, and so outspoken about celebrity relationships?

Uh, we've lost our sense of compassion. We are unable to see ourselves in the poor and downtrodden. We have forgotten that we were by chance born into America and not into Haiti. Christ's message to care for the poor has been forgotten by our "religious" government officials and replaced by tax-breaks to the richest of the rich. Do I blame it on the elephant in the corner, capitalism? Not really. I blame it on all of us. If we were to just do more to support a more "socialized" form of government, like the scandanavian countries or Canada, the poor would be very well cared for. And our standard of living, while scaled-down a bit from our SUV-loving nature, would improve as well.

*Why would anyone wake up in the morning and try to make it through another day they didn't intend to remember?

I don't know.

Hope this helps.

-Peace

 

[JRaven]

Something else

Why do I sense an unwritten, specific hurt?
PM or email me if you need to vent.

 

[lovechild27]

wondering why you have all these questions and where they are coming from...


the answer to them all?

because we are simply human

I hope everything is ok and someone hasnt done something to hurt you

 

[MagicFingers]

This may get moved to the General Board, but I feel it should be posted here. I'm not a psychologist, or even a psych student, but today I had some prominent musings about people. I guess these are things I can't grasp, and in a way I am searching for how I can relate.

*Why would anyone want to intentionally destroy the happiness of another?
Because of lawyers and judges! To get his money

*Why are people so frightened of being honest, when the consequences of lying are so much worse.
When we learn from watching lawyers and judges, managers, business owners, sales people, women, exes, presidents, CEOs, et al, all lying and getting rewarded for it, we begin to believe that WE should lie too. When we are honest and get shot down over and over again and persecuted for our honesty, we begin to wonder if our parents were wrong to teach us to be honest.

*Why must we see each other as fundamentally different to the extent that we can no longer communicate or cooperate?
All people around the world are more fundamentally the SAME than different! (See "Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth".)

*What is it in us that allows us to believe we can achieve anything if we work hard enough, but nothing will change no matter how hard we try?
It's amazing how we believe we can learn and grow and raise ourselves up from poor to rich, or from lower middle class to upper middle class. In the end we will still wind up right where we started. Maybe we believe that we must have hope to live? Without hope and the belief of something better, WHY should we even try?

*Why do people fix their televisions before they fix their families?
It's easier. A TV is either broken or working. People aren't so easy. We are all broken in different degrees and it's so hard to figure out which part to replace. And the costs can be so great.I fixed my TV with a hot-wired $10 part 3 years ago and it's still working great. Been working on myself for 20 years with only some success, and gave up on 1/4 of my "Family" because it was too disfunctional to fix.

*How can a person be so blind to walk over the poverty-stricken, deaf to the cries of the suffering, and so outspoken about celebrity relationships?
Does this mean that celebrities do so much for the poor that we should overlook their relationship problems? OK, many of us do! Heck, look at all the people that didn't die when Clinton was Pres. I can overlook his cigar-under-the-desk affairs when I have a job and the world is at peace.

*Why would anyone wake up in the morning and try to make it through another day they didn't intend to remember?
I didn't want to wake up today, nor would I like to remember today. We have little choice. Life happens whether we like it or not. As much as I didn't want this day to come, I DID have one wonderful hour with my boys this morning. I DO want to remember that. We must strive to take the little victories and moments and hold onto them while letting the rest slide away

[/QUOTE

 

[fsumusic1981]

I know this is getting really off-topic, and for that I apologize, but I feel obligated to respond to some of Magic Fingers' comments to which I took personal offense.

Magic fingers, you wrote this:

*Why would anyone want to intentionally destroy the happiness of another?
Because of lawyers and judges! To get his money

and this:

*Why are people so frightened of being honest, when the consequences of lying are so much worse.
When we learn from watching lawyers and judges, managers, business owners, sales people, women, exes, presidents, CEOs, et al, all lying and getting rewarded for it...


Now, I don't know why you think all lawyers and judges are bad and money-grubbing, but you really aren't right. I could offer you a thousand examples, but instead I will just offer a few. Read about Jan Schlictmann in "A Civil Action" or see the movie. Many environmental lawyers are looking out for the planet.

By and large, most people seem to think personal injury attorneys are out to get money money money. This is not the case. Many personal injury attorneys are in their line of work in order to hold corporations responsible for their actions, and money is the only way to do it. And there are many other attorneys out there who work for peanuts because they want to see justice done. Think: Prosecutors, Public Defenders, Public-Interest Attorneys, human-rights lawyers, immigration attorneys (for immigrants). While attorneys do tend to make good money, keep in mind that money is not usually the prime motivation for going to law school for most people. Most people attend law school because of an interest in the law and a desire to see justice (however they may see it) upheld in this world. That is why, if you were to really look at what lawyers are doing with their lives, you would see many of them doing pro-bono work because they want to do the right thing.

And another thing. Judges don't profit from other people's losses. Federal judges are appointed for life. Other judges are elected by the people or appointed from our representatives in government. They are paid SALARIES. They do not win a percentage of settlements. They are there to be impartial.

And as for attorneys not being honest. I understand how it is convenient to see attorneys in this light and how easy it is to mistake fiction for fact. Attorneys deal with the law. It is said that lawyers are greater interpreters of the law than poets are of nature. Why? because the law is not black and white, contrary to what you may think. The law is 99% grey. That is why there is such a debate in this country over such things as "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" (the church-state question) or the 'penumbral' right-to-privacy hidden in the words of the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 9th amendments.

And another thing. Salespeople are not all "used-car" types. Most salespeople understand that the proper way to sell something is to make sure it's what your customer NEEDS. If you oversell them, they will return the product.

Business owners are not all bad people. Have lunch at your local hole-in-the-wall independent diner and talk to the owner. Get a feel for his constant struggle to fight against the McDonaldization of this world. Ask your mom-and-pop corner shop owner about how it feels when Wal-Mart moves in nextdoor to him. Then ask him about how it feels when a second Walmart is built on the other side of his store. That owner will be an honest person, trying to get by just like you are.

And for some reason, you decided to throw "women" in there too. I've really got to ask you, does over 50% of the world's population lie? Has every woman you've ever met been dishonest? Shit, I'd say that men are more dishonest than women, and I am a man.

And for the record, I think you ought to publicly state what you do for a living. And I think you owe it to everyone here who has an occupation that you decided to lump into those categories of yours how it is that you are so much more honest than they are. Because if you can, you just might very well be the beacon of light we need in this world.

-Peace

 

[Topher]

Business owners are not all bad people.

UNLESS, I suppose, they own corporations -

Many personal injury attorneys are in their line of work in order to hold corporations responsible for their actions, and money is the only way to do it.

- like McDonald's and Wal-Mart -

Get a feel for his constant struggle to fight against the McDonaldization of this world. Ask your mom-and-pop corner shop owner about how it feels when Wal-Mart moves in nextdoor to him.

I guess we all draw lines, albeit differently from each other, to demarcate beyond which lie the "bad people."

 

[UnseenChagrin]

Hmm. Thanks for the responses. I was just in class and listening to environmental ethics issues and whatnot, and my mind went off on a tangent. Yesterday was a strange day for me where I decided that after I receive my B.S. in a couple months, I want to go back to school and become a teacher. I want to make a difference in the world.

I suppose I threw these questions out there also because I was just curious what people thought. I don't think there's a right answer, or a wrong answer. Maybe there aren't any answers. Maybe I just wanted to get other people thinking.

In a lot of ways, each of those had underlying, specific things I had in mind. For instance, when I was thinking about why would people intentionally hurt another, I was thinking about all this bullshit regarding gay marriages. It's so rediculous to me to consider that just because I don't like something means that I should set out to ensure that nobody can enjoy it.

Or fixing TVs rather than families... for me it wasn't necessarily about the actual fixing of the TV, but the concept behind it. Families are fucked and people would so much rather not deal with it. It makes me sad. I worry for the future when I think about things like this.

People waking up intending not to remember a day: I was thinking of my fellow classmates that have been partying for weeks straight. They can barely walk, barely speak, and barely think. They smell horrible and are perpetually hungover. They purposely are consuming so much alcohol so they can have the joys of not remember what happened. I even do this sometimes (I think most people have their share of drunken nights at the bar where you almost get kicked out, right? hehe), but I don't understand the need or want to do it daily.

My problem with all of this is that it is easy to give reasons for why it happens. It is easy to understand the overlaying, and some underlying, issues that creep into day to day lives. It isn't just America; it is the world. It needs to end and I want so desperately to do something to change this. But how? It is truly infeasible to consider that at this point in the history of the world, with so many deeply rooted nations and traditions, that the entire population of people are going to give up their "identities" and work together to ensure the ultimate success of our species and the sustainability of our planet.

Even reading through the responses of this thread it is so easy to see everyone's different thoughts. People are getting upset over opinions of others and it leads to defense mechanisms and strategy. I don't know if there is truly a way to discuss the matters of the human mind and not piss someone else off. Nothing will ever change if people can't agree. One of my favorite quotes, from "A Time to Kill," relates my views of necessity in uniting the world:

And until we can see each other as equals, justice is never going to be even-handed. It will remain nothing more than a reflection of our own prejudices.

Just food for thought.

 

[Topher]

but I don't understand the need or want to do it daily.

That means you're growing up.

 

[Topher]

You probably won't be able to change the world; just make sure you remain true to yourself. Always use your turn signal, don't drive a car bigger than you need, don't park in the fire lane (even if you are "just going to be a minute"), don't talk on your cell phone while you are driving, be aware of who is around you and their needs for space and such when you are shopping in Wal-Mart, don't put your TV above your loved ones, don't put the neuroses of your loved ones above your own mental health, respect the right of way of pedestrians, and, above all, enjoy every day of your life! If more people were self actualized many of our social ills would disappear, but you can't wave a magic wand and make that happen for them. You can only make it true for yourself.

Also, and this is something I struggle with everyday, try not to resent people for not reciprocating your consideration. The fact that you are conscientious and others don't give a shit about it threatens to make you resentful. It does me anyway.

 

[Topher]

Yes, I am susceptible to road rage, but I think that a lot of what can be improved upon in our society plays out in places where there is traffic - whether vehicle or pedestrian.

And I say to drive smaller vehicles not because of the environment, but only because your ostentatious and obnoxious Hummer blocks my view and threatens my safety, especially when you think you are too good to stop at red lights.

 

[fgarvb1]

*Why would anyone want to intentionally destroy the happiness of another?

People at one time or another are petty, jealous and spiteful. Most people grow out of this, as they get older. It started with Cain and Able.


*Why are people so frightened of being honest, when the consequences of lying are so much worse?

All people lie, some lie more than others do. To some people lying has become a way of life. I have a friend who has lied so much for so long that she believes the lies herself and forgets the truth.
Many people are afraid of presenting as they really are, or to state what they really think. They think no one will like them or that people will make fun of them.

Who is the father of all liars?

*Why must we see each other as fundamentally different to the extent that we can no longer communicate or cooperate?

Fear, suspicion, mistrust, ignorance.

A lot of people are so wrapped up in themselves they have no time to understand their fellow human beings or even to make an effort to. People are selfish and do not want to invest their time or emotions in other people.


*What is it in us that allow us to believe we can achieve anything if we work hard enough, but nothing will change no matter how hard we try?

We live in a world where unrealistic expectations and instant gratification is fast becoming the normal way of life. We were taught this in school, by the media and even by other people. What we need the most we cannot achieve by ourselves through physical external means.

*Why do people fix their televisions before they fix their families?

Growing up in a dysfunctional home a person does not know anything is wrong. To them that is normal. They will take their dysfunctional lifestyle and pass it to their children; it does indeed travel through the generations.

Some people just do not care.


*How can a person be so blind to walk over the poverty-stricken, deaf to the cries of the suffering, and so outspoken about celebrity relationships?

They are many hardhearted self-centered selfish people in this world who spend their whole lives focused on himself or herself or some other person or project that does not amount to much of anything in the grand scheme of things.

*Why would anyone wake up in the morning and try to make it through another day they did not intend to remember?

Because they know no other way.

Let me share a little something with you, I many years ago, was much as you described in your questions. I was not worth the gunpowder it would take to blow my brains out and did not care enough if I lived or died to do it.

At this point in my life, I am almost completely the opposite. What changed me was the grace of God, much prayer and several 12-step programs.

I was serious about starting in Geneses.
.

 

[Topher]

 

[fgarvb1]

Oh, Yeah?

Tell me something about the way life is, how people are and why they do the things they do that is not in the bible.

 

[Topher]

How about the Mahabharata (look it up)? The Qur'an, the Greek and Roman myths?

Yes, you can learn a lot about human nature as it is reflected in all the mythologies of the world.

 

[Topher]

If you really want to begin to understand why humans behave the way they do then read something like this.

 

[fgarvb1]

How about the Mahabharata (look it up)? The Qur'an, the Greek and Roman myths?

Yes, you can learn a lot about human nature as it is reflected in all the mythologies of the world.

At one time or another I read the Greek and Roman mythologies

and even all I could stand of the Qur'an as you call it.

as for the Mahabharata I know very little of it.

I have to have something that actually works to my good as well as being a good read.

 

[Topher]

Glad you found something to help you out. The Tanakh and the New Testament are indeed very interesting products of human culture. Have you ever read any of them in Hebrew or Greek? It's even more fun I can tell you.

 

[MagicFingers]

I stand behind everything I said.

Topher, fgarvb1, UnseenChagrin, & even fsumusic, those are all good posts!

UC, I could see you were serious and that is why I took the time to post my thoughts here. I knew they would be different from the norm or expected answers. You are right to see that the world needs to change and that we should all just learn to get along and see things the same. There was a quote about justice happening after we all see each other as equals. That's the problem - certain courts (Justice) do not see one certain gender of people as equal to the other. So one will always get a raw deal.

I will not get into a defensive nor attacking mode here. I have no wish to be right all the time any more. Know what you experience when you are right? RIGHTeousness! That's all.
I stand behind everything I said and can back up each with facts. If you really want to know, PM me. I won't go into details here or tell you where I work or what I do. Would that matter? Would you have a different opinion of me if you knew?

I don't care if people are offended by what I posted up there in THIS thread. If you are a good person and not an object of my words, then it doesn't apply to you. If you ARE one of those people I mentioned, then you will probably not even understand WHY or care why you are in that group. Only the individual knows if he/she is lying, cheating, stealing their way through life at the expense of others. And they are not going to admit it until they begin to make a change in their lives.

FSUmusic, I didn't say ALL people are bad.
You reference a book and movie. Those are not real life.
Not all lawyers and judges and CEOs and business owners are honest! Judges are not impartial! Lawyers lie! Women lie. Men lie. Foreigners lie. Americans lie. Salespeople lie! This is real life.
We all have different agendas and that is part of the problem.
I'm a long time FSU and Music fan, so don't feel like I'm attacking you. You stated your views well and I really don't disagree with them. But keep your eyes and mind open and you will see that not everything is as it should be in our world!

I like every one of you and all your posts. You are all entitled to and have a right to your own opinions, as I am. (As am I?)

The "Beacon of light",
making the world better, one post at a time,
MF

 

[CoyoteTales]

Yum. Needed some philosophy questions tonight.

*Why would anyone want to intentionally destroy the happiness of another?
Because there are folks out there who cannot stand seeing people more happy then they are. You get folks who feel that they deserve more than others do, and when someone else 'gets lucky' or gets something through hard-earned effort, the people who do not have cannot be happy for the person, but rather, feel sorry for themselves.

I do not understand this dynamic, really, because I find causing pain intentionally and maliciously to be wrong. It's on the list with 'getting back at someone.'

*Why are people so frightened of being honest, when the consequences of lying are so much worse.

Because honesty is a trust thing; it is a trust of another with a truth that is shameful to us, or hurtful to speak of. When I find people I think I can trust, I open up to them far more than people who I cannot trust with the same truth.

The consequences of lying are appropriate to the nature of the awful truth.

One of my favorite quotes: "if the truth will set you free, why is therapy so expensive?"

*Why must we see each other as fundamentally different to the extent that we can no longer communicate or cooperate?
Because it's a fast route to finding reasons to stay angry at someone, or make it so we think they don't understand us, and the farther away we can push someone, the less we have to work with them.

Because we are taught that there's an 'us' and a 'them' at some point in our lives, and it's usually early enough that most of us never unlearn it, in order to see everyone as an individual, unique, and with great potential for merit.

Because we get told multiple times that we have to 'fit in' with 'our folk', be it a religious, national, or locality commonality, and then it's a short jump to 'and we should shun/hate/drive away the outsiders.'

*What is it in us that allows us to believe we can achieve anything if we work hard enough, but nothing will change no matter how hard we try?
It's the yin and the yang of personal growth versus societal progress. You can apply yourself to get only so high, before you need the help of other people. And the hardest thing for us to change is someone else.

*Why do people fix their televisions before they fix their families?
A broken television is obvious. A broken familial dynamic usually has one or more members compensating, enabling, or forgiving the damaged dynamic. Sometimes it's a matter of the problem family member not being able to see the problem as a result.


*How can a person be so blind to walk over the poverty-stricken, deaf to the cries of the suffering, and so outspoken about celebrity relationships?
Because the homeless folks are not visible in the media very much; because we've been told that homeless folks are such because they're alcoholics don't want to work.

Me, I help when I can. Which isn't as often as I'd like, but a lot of folks I know, myself included, do, in fact, have at least one story which they admit to helping out someone who wasn't in it for the liquor.

*Why would anyone wake up in the morning and try to make it through another day they didn't intend to remember?
Some days are so awful to contemplate that we want to escape, with our poison of choice.

Me, I tell myself, 'tomorrow will be better'. Even if I don't know that for sure.