Underdog Stories Breed People That Need a Face Stabbing.

[Joe Wordsworth]

I can't believe that at my age, there are still guys out there who are whining about how "nice guys finish last".

A friend of my girl's, we'll call him Roger, managed to borrow my ear for an hour while he went on and on and on and on about how he just doesn't understand women... and how they're so superficial and only want "jerks who treat them badly".

He ran the full gamut of high school girls never giving him the time of day, and how high school is to blame for not putting enough emphasis on academics and letting "sports and brutes win the day". And then hit college and how "even smart girls, college girls, only want to party and drink and sleep with whoever has the most money or the coolest car". He finished up with how his girlfriend had dumped him, after he treated her like an angel for two years, to go out with some other guy who was an idiot.

He told me that the dating pool for smart and genuinely nice guys like him is so small and "all the good ones are taken".

I drank three beers listening to this, and a margarita... but the booze, dear God, did not curb my desire to slap him like a bitch. The public setting? That did it. But, man, oh man--he's twenty-four. Twenty-four!

Jesus H. Christ.

 

[scheherazade_79]

The worm will turn eventually. Give him a couple of years and he'll compensate for everything by turning into a worse bastard than the guys he was describing. Trust me, I've seen it happen...

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

The worm will turn eventually. Give him a couple of years and he'll compensate for everything by turning into a worse bastard than the guys he was describing. Trust me, I've seen it happen...

What sealed it for me was that he went through every cliche' reason for romantic failure from "other guys" to "society" to "Hollywood" and back... and not once addressed any actual failing on his part.

I mean, he talked about everyone and everything else that was keeping him down or rigging the situation--covering "I treat women with respect, and praise, and worship them, and they're so great and they get involved with shit men who are horrible and losers and jerks and..." and he not once supposed that he might be part of the problem.

Not even once supposed that he wasn't in good enough shape or had a confident enough plan in life, or had more interesting hobbies, or more relavent life experiences, or... anything.

Somehow, he was flawless and only the system was flawed.

It was like watching a schizophrenic guy swat at birds while eating lunch--neither of which are actually there.

 

[scheherazade_79]

Can you set him up with a girl who's brutally, brutally honest?

 

[English Lady]

I can't believe that at my age, there are still guys out there who are whining about how "nice guys finish last".

A friend of my girl's, we'll call him Roger, managed to borrow my ear for an hour while he went on and on and on and on about how he just doesn't understand women... and how they're so superficial and only want "jerks who treat them badly".

He ran the full gamut of high school girls never giving him the time of day, and how high school is to blame for not putting enough emphasis on academics and letting "sports and brutes win the day". And then hit college and how "even smart girls, college girls, only want to party and drink and sleep with whoever has the most money or the coolest car". He finished up with how his girlfriend had dumped him, after he treated her like an angel for two years, to go out with some other guy who was an idiot.

He told me that the dating pool for smart and genuinely nice guys like him is so small and "all the good ones are taken".

I drank three beers listening to this, and a margarita... but the booze, dear God, did not curb my desire to slap him like a bitch. The public setting? That did it. But, man, oh man--he's twenty-four. Twenty-four!

Jesus H. Christ.

Do you know what women don't like? Whiny men. *nods*

My hubby was a computer geek, is a computer geek. He's big, he's intelligent and he has a totally col sense of humour, he's kind and always listens.

He's NEVER had a shortage of women in his life.

He's a typical nice guy -he's had his share of bullying, more than his share in fact, a severely broken leg -twice put him out of sports for 90 % o his school career and he had no problems with girls, okay, the one he really wanted wasn't interested -but that happens to us all, right?

It's all an attitude thing. Send out vibes that you're a loner loser and well, you end up being a loner loser, simple as that.

 

[S-Des]

Do you know what women don't like? Whiny men. *nods*

My hubby was a computer geek, is a computer geek. He's big, he's intelligent and he has a totally col sense of humour, he's kind and always listens.

He's NEVER had a shortage of women in his life.

He's a typical nice guy -he's had his share of bullying, more than his share in fact, a severely broken leg -twice put him out of sports for 90 % o his school career and he had no problems with girls, okay, the one he really wanted wasn't interested -but that happens to us all, right?

It's all an attitude thing. Send out vibes that you're a loner loser and well, you end up being a loner loser, simple as that.

Ok, I've got to disagree. First, I had a roomate who was a complete loser (no job, no plans, no interesting hobbies). What did he like to do? Walk into a bar, pick up the best looking woman (often one who was with a guy) and leave with her soon after. He would usually end up fucking a new girl every night (after they bought him dinner). He was good looking, but not Brad Pitt. He would constantly brag that all he had to do was treat a woman like shit and she couldn't wait to have sex with him. He'd occasionally call her a week or two later if he didn't have anyone else and they would often drive over (did I mention at 24 that he didn't have a car), pick him up, and go somewhere to have sex again.

Next, look through the hate threads for about 20 seconds and you'll find women talking about guys they married, who left them high and dry with kids (or just were cheating assholes). Were these good men who suddenly changed after marriage?

Last, I was the guy who didn't date much in high school or college. I finally gave in (like scheherazade mentioned) and treated women badly just like my friends (who rarely had trouble finding dates). What happened? I had an amazing new effect on women. It lasted until a relationship that I will never talk about because I was such a dick that I couldn't deal with it afterwards. After that, well, you guessed it, things went back to the way they were before. I still did OK, but nothing like during the period where I was a jerk.

I know some guys do the whiney thing (I would never bend a guy's ear for an hour about my problems), which is a major turn-off. Some guys don't do enough to make themselves attractive physically. Sometimes it's just bad timing. But there is an abundance of women out there who for some reason I can't fathom, find jerks attractive. I never went out with a woman who would treat me like shit. Didn't see the upside in it.

I'm not asserting any absolutes, even women who end up with jerks probably dated some nice guys in between. But in 20+ years of dating, I've seen a lot of things that made me wonder about a lot of women's sanity.

....S-Des

 

[English Lady]

Ok, I've got to disagree. First, I had a roomate who was a complete loser (no job, no plans, no interesting hobbies). What did he like to do? Walk into a bar, pick up the best looking woman (often one who was with a guy) and leave with her soon after. He would usually end up fucking a new girl every night (after they bought him dinner). He was good looking, but not Brad Pitt. He would constantly brag that all he had to do was treat a woman like shit and she couldn't wait to have sex with him. He'd occasionally call her a week or two later if he didn't have anyone else and they would often drive over (did I mention at 24 that he didn't have a car), pick him up, and go somewhere to have sex again.

Next, look through the hate threads for about 20 seconds and you'll find women talking about guys they married, who left them high and dry with kids (or just were cheating assholes). Were these good men who suddenly changed after marriage?

Last, I was the guy who didn't date much in high school or college. I finally gave in (like scheherazade mentioned) and treated women badly just like my friends (who rarely had trouble finding dates). What happened? I had an amazing new effect on women. It lasted until a relationship that I will never talk about because I was such a dick that I couldn't deal with it afterwards. After that, well, you guessed it, things went back to the way they were before. I still did OK, but nothing like during the period where I was a jerk.

I know some guys do the whiney thing (I would never bend a guy's ear for an hour about my problems), which is a major turn-off. Some guys don't do enough to make themselves attractive physically. Sometimes it's just bad timing. But there is an abundance of women out there who for some reason I can't fathom, find jerks attractive. I never went out with a woman who would treat me like shit. Didn't see the upside in it.

I'm not asserting any absolutes, even women who end up with jerks probably dated some nice guys in between. But in 20+ years of dating, I've seen a lot of things that made me wonder about a lot of women's sanity.

....S-Des

I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing,here. I think our definitions of dating and getting girls might be different.

girlies who want a fuck are going to o for the guy who is charming, cute and lets them know they want to fuck -makes sense, right? Often this kinda correlates that the bad boys get the girls -or the one night stands/short term relationships. And i do guess some girls marry this kinda guy, but i imagine more often they marry a "nice" guy and things change or the relationship breaks down. People change over time, and it seems this fucks up alot of marriages as it sems no room is given for change. (all speculation, and what i think. I'm open to other opinions )

Anyhow, My husband is a nice guy. He is shy, he's not very confident but he's fun to be with. He's had a few girlfriends, had a few one night adventures- but mostly they've been fairly long relationships that have gone well. I think nice guys can have that, if they believe it.

I also think if you are desperate for a woman, you give out a desperate vibe. I think there is alot to be said for being happy with yourself, happy with your life without a memeber of the opposite/same sex in it. I think soemone who enjoys life, enjoys who they are will be more likely to attract a partner -maybe.

I also may be totally wrong -but I don't think we're disagreeing, maybe seeing the same thing slightly differently

 

[S-Des]

I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing,here. I think our definitions of dating and getting girls might be different.

girlies who want a fuck are going to o for the guy who is charming, cute and lets them know they want to fuck -makes sense, right? Often this kinda correlates that the bad boys get the girls -or the one night stands/short term relationships. And i do guess some girls marry this kinda guy, but i imagine more often they marry a "nice" guy and things change or the relationship breaks down. People change over time, and it seems this fucks up alot of marriages as it sems no room is given for change. (all speculation, and what i think. I'm open to other opinions )

Anyhow, My husband is a nice guy. He is shy, he's not very confident but he's fun to be with. He's had a few girlfriends, had a few one night adventures- but mostly they've been fairly long relationships that have gone well. I think nice guys can have that, if they believe it.

I also think if you are desperate for a woman, you give out a desperate vibe. I think there is alot to be said for being happy with yourself, happy with your life without a memeber of the opposite/same sex in it. I think soemone who enjoys life, enjoys who they are will be more likely to attract a partner -maybe.

I also may be totally wrong -but I don't think we're disagreeing, maybe seeing the same thing slightly differently

No, I think you made your point very well. Definitely being a bad boy for a while helped with short-term flings. I totally agree that desperation is a bad thing (for a guy or a girl). Nothing more scary than a clingy woman who seems desperate to find a guy to settle down with, I can only imagine what it's like from your perspective.

I have to say, I'm very glad you found a good guy and it's worked out well. I wish it would happen that way more often. Maybe if women forced guys to be better people, there wouldn't be so many stories about jerks mistreating them. I think about it a lot, even though my daughter is still just a child. I hope that I manage to raise her well enough that she never lets a guy mistreat her the way that I've seen over the years.

I might disagree with you occasionally, but it will always be with a smile. You consistently make excellent points that are hard to argue with. I just didn't want to see "nice guys" get beaten up.

 

[English Lady]

No, I think you made your point very well. Definitely being a bad boy for a while helped with short-term flings. I totally agree that desperation is a bad thing (for a guy or a girl). Nothing more scary than a clingy woman who seems desperate to find a guy to settle down with, I can only imagine what it's like from your perspective.

I have to say, I'm very glad you found a good guy and it's worked out well. I wish it would happen that way more often. Maybe if women forced guys to be better people, there wouldn't be so many stories about jerks mistreating them. I think about it a lot, even though my daughter is still just a child. I hope that I manage to raise her well enough that she never lets a guy mistreat her the way that I've seen over the years.

I might disagree with you occasionally, but it will always be with a smile. You consistently make excellent points that are hard to argue with. I just didn't want to see "nice guys" get beaten up.

Aww, bless. I like nice guys, I do. I just think that you can sit around moaning about life being bad to ya and get everything you want. You've got to go for it. "Be yourself" is great advice, but I think it needs to be coupled with "enjoy being yourself." I know it's not as easy as that, but I think self love, loving what you have, who you are and thinking positive would do the whole world alot of good.

I am sure you'll bring your daughter up just great, you seem like you've got your head screwed on right, and debate is always good

 

[3113]

I think the "bad guy" vibe all has to do with being active. The bad guy (not "evil guy" just "bad boy") image on television and in movies is the guy who acts, who does, and who is often the "hero." The loner who comes into town, says nasty things to women and the establishment, but is eventually turned around by the girl (Han Solo, Spike, etc.)--this media/story illusion of beauty and the beast allows women to believe they can have both--an exciting, powerful guy who is, at heart, nice.

A "bad guy" keeps a woman on the edge. She never knows what he's going to do. She is not in control. Being on edge is emotionally and hormonally exciting and that translates, rightly or wrongly, to passion. The nice guy is predictable and under her control. That might be okay, but it also means flatline. She KNOWS what he's going to do. There's nothing unexpected or exciting, no ups-and-downs, no edge. And so she rightly, or wrongly, thinks there's no passion.

Now here's where we get to the dating scene: girls involved in certain dating scenes are the ones who not only want excitement, but they may well have become addicted to it. They can't imagine romance without that "passion" of unpredictablity. They need to feel spikes of emotion. One night with an unpredictable guy who dumps them and might call them again gives them the emotional and hormonal fluxuations they need. A date with nice guy who doesn't give them any spikes will bore them.

That said, there are girls who have a "fetish" for nice guys. I just got an e-mail from one who wants more "nice guy" stories from me. And I know one girl who ONLY dates nice guys. The nicest, most limp-wristed, polite, unexciting guys she can find. Guys who live to please her. Know what kind of woman wants that? Women who LIKE complete control. She wants a guy who follow her around like a puppy, a guy who put up with her unpredictable fluxations in mood, a guy who will jump to obey her.

Would this guy whining about how girls go for bad boys WANT a girl like that? They're out there. He just has to surrender control.

Is there an inbetween? Absolutely. But it means that both man and woman have to accept those times of predictablity and boredom, not decide that the relationship is over because it's become routine. They have to share control and surrender of control. They have to find ways to give each other what each other needs when they need it. Which, ultimately, gets back to the main point. Deciding who you are, what you might change to be the best who-you-are that you can be, and finding someone who appreciates THAT, rather than becoming what you're not out of desperation. And, likewise, deciding what you want, what you really, realistically want--not what you think you want.

 

[BlackShanglan]

It's true that "nice guys" can have some problems. There seems to me to be points in everyone's age where they are attracted to that which is least likely to make them happy in the long run. But then, that goes for "nice girls" as well, and I often wonder about that when I hear someone like Joe describes - who is, as he points out, 24 - complaining about allegedly being a "nice guy" and suffering for it. Is he, perhaps, as attached to the sorority/party-girl/cheerleader model as those objects of his desire are to the bad-boy model, or is he looking at "nice girls" - those who are thoughtful, fair, grounded, intelligent, and looking for someone with the same qualities? If he's still stuck at desiring only superficial things, it's hardly surprising that his hidden worth is not appreciated by those he desires.

On the whole, I agree with Joe. It's true that it's not easy to be patient, particularly when one is young; at times it may seem that one's own particular nature is universally despised. But there's no easy way out of that situation if one spends one's time blaming everyone else and not examining one's own behavior. I've known several people who have trotted out the "nice guys/girls" line (for both sexes use it) in real life, and all of them have had serious personality or social issues that were entirely obvious to everyone around them. I have also known truly decent and wonderful people who honestly did suffer a good deal of loneliness and unhappiness before eventually being recognized by some lucky individual. The chief difference seems to have been the decision not to elevate themselves to the hallowed "nice guy/girl" hall of fame, with the implicit suggestion that the "nice" person had absolutely no problems and nothing that he or she might want to change.

I've seen people overcome some amazing difficulties to find happiness. One was gay, living in the deep south, and tipping the scales at about 300 pounds. Another described himself as looking like an overgrown Sam Gamgee and was cursed with shyness and a distinct and not especially pleasant personal scent that no amount of washing could banish. Another was so shy and quiet a presence as to be underrated even by her own parents, who prevented her from taking the advanced courses in high school because they were "too much for her" (she's now a neurosurgeon, I'm pleased to report, and happily married). All of them are wonderful people, kind and caring toward others and full of courage and strength and interest. None of them were given to electing themselves to sanctified heights and blaming others for not acknowledging their staggering merit. The activity itself puts people off, as Joe notes. It smacks of arrogance, self-worship, and externalization of one's problems. If one absolutely cannot help believing it, one ought at least not to make a habit of announcing it.

After all, someone out there even cares for the company of a genderless horse. If that can be done, surely most other things can be accomplished.

Shanglan

 

[Liar]

It's not nice guys that finish last. It's shy guys, who shun making the effort "because, as we all know, nice guys finish last".

Now and then shyness and lack of self esteem correlates with niceness, but there's no actual connection.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Now and then shyness and lack of self esteem correlates with niceness, but there's no actual connection.

You're wonderfully pithy, Liar.

 

[3113]

Another described himself as looking like an overgrown Sam Gamgee and was cursed with shyness and a distinct and not especially pleasant personal scent that no amount of washing could banish.

Now you've got me curious. What happened to this guy? Did he ever find a way to alter his scent? Or did he find a woman who liked it?

 

[BlackShanglan]

Now you've got me curious. What happened to this guy? Did he ever find a way to alter his scent? Or did he find a woman who liked it?

It's not clear to me whether the scent changed or whether his charming wife simply accepts or doesn't notice it. Our contact has been largely electronic for some time. I do know that they met while volunteering at the same charity, which I think a lovely thing. Certainly I'd find someone who was dedicating his time to helping the less fortunate a great deal more interesting than someone who spent his hours bewailing himself as one of those less fortunate.

Shanglan

 

[Guest]

Another described himself as looking like an overgrown Sam Gamgee and was cursed with shyness and a distinct and not especially pleasant personal scent that no amount of washing could banish.

Now you've got me curious. What happened to this guy? Did he ever find a way to alter his scent? Or did he find a woman who liked it?

It's not clear to me whether the scent changed or whether his charming wife simply accepts or doesn't notice it. Our contact has been largely electronic for some time. I do know that they met while volunteering at the same charity, which I think a lovely thing. Certainly I'd find someone who was dedicating his time to helping the less fortunate a great deal more interesting than someone who spent his hours bewailing himself as one of those less fortunate.

Shanglan

Perhaps a change in diet? Or perhaps he wed a woman with a weak sense of smell.

I think you've all struck a truism. Not feeling sorry for one's self, or deciding that one's problems have at least a small beginning in one's self (and are thus suseptible to change, either in source or in reaction) is far more attractive than the opposite. It is very difficult to long support a person who persists in wallowing in their misfortunes.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

What sealed it for me was that he went through every cliche' reason for romantic failure from "other guys" to "society" to "Hollywood" and back... and not once addressed any actual failing on his part...

Somehow, he was flawless and only the system was flawed.

I like what's been said in this thread, save for the smelly hobbit part. Hobbits smell bad to begin with (that's why there are lawn gnomes instead of lawn hobbits, the flowers wilt), but an especially smelly one...?

The part I quoted... This seems to be nothing shy of a universal trend in our society today. i spilled hot coffee, but it's McDonald's fault; it simply has nothing to do with me being a complete idiot. It's one of the many things that are making our culture just... well, gradually more and more sad.

Q_C

 

[English Lady]

I like what's been said in this thread, save for the smelly hobbit part. Hobbits smell bad to begin with (that's why there are lawn gnomes instead of lawn hobbits, the flowers wilt), but an especially smelly one...?

The part I quoted... This seems to be nothing shy of a universal trend in our society today. i spilled hot coffee, but it's McDonald's fault; it simply has nothing to do with me being a complete idiot. It's one of the many things that are making our culture just... well, gradually more and more sad.

Q_C

I completelt agre -even about the hobbits

 

[Tom Collins]

I like what's been said in this thread, save for the smelly hobbit part. Hobbits smell bad to begin with (that's why there are lawn gnomes instead of lawn hobbits, the flowers wilt), but an especially smelly one...?

The part I quoted... This seems to be nothing shy of a universal trend in our society today. i spilled hot coffee, but it's McDonald's fault; it simply has nothing to do with me being a complete idiot. It's one of the many things that are making our culture just... well, gradually more and more sad.

Q_C

Yep...it's the Pass the Buck syndrom.

What especially pisses me off is when someone pulles themselves out of a bad situation and makes something of their life and does good and all the people in the same situation they were in can do is make them feel like shit for not coming back and pulling them out too.

This person managed to get out of a getto, put themselves through Med School or something and graduate with good scores and get a great job...all through hard work and massive amounts of determination.

But then you've got this person who's from the same neighborhood and is a criminal, a thief and a murderer, and he seems to think that his problems are the first person's fault because they didn't come back to the Hood and start handing out money and putting people through college or what ever it is that people like him expects this hard working and determined person to have done for him and all the rest of the people like him.

Never occures to this shiftless piece of filth that maybe he should have put the gun down and picked up a book...worked in a store instead of robbing it...he just gets pissed off because he was too lazy to pull himself up by his bootstraps and go out and claim a life for himself rather than taking the life of another.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

Yep...it's the Pass the Buck syndrom.

What especially pisses me off is when someone pulles themselves out of a bad situation and makes something of their life and does good and all the people in the same situation they were in can do is make them feel like shit for not coming back and pulling them out too.

This person managed to get out of a getto, put themselves through Med School or something and graduate with good scores and get a great job...all through hard work and massive amounts of determination.

But then you've got this person who's from the same neighborhood and is a criminal, a thief and a murderer, and he seems to think that his problems are the first person's fault because they didn't come back to the Hood and start handing out money and putting people through college or what ever it is that people like him expects this hard working and determined person to have done for him and all the rest of the people like him.

Never occures to this shiftless piece of filth that maybe he should have put the gun down and picked up a book...worked in a store instead of robbing it...he just gets pissed off because he was too lazy to pull himself up by his bootstraps and go out and claim a life for himself rather than taking the life of another.

Yep. I can build you a school, fill it with books, hire teachers. I can't take the tests for you. And it's not my fault if you fail. I understand full well that it's not as easy for them as it is for me (and I have trouble keeping my shit straight, LOL) and I also understand that sometimes, the things that are in your way can weigh you down. Some can't overcome it, and we can't fault them for it. But it's your life. No one else lives it for you. No one else can make your decisions, and no one else is responsible for them. I'll be honest with you, I think the problem in the U.S. (in many places, but I don't want to presume to know anyone else's homeland; I merely live here, in mine) is that we've gotten to the point that we've got too much going for us, and we're used to it. We're taking it for granted to the point that there are televisions in nearly every household, window's to the world, cable and satellite communications enhancing it, computers almost as many, internet connections in only a few less, roofs over our heads, nearby centers where we can purchase food instead of having to grow our own and hope we have enough for the winter come fall, and we're constantly in search of more. Yeah, life could be easier, but when many of our biggest problems have to do with Suzy Rottencrotch and worrying about why she dumped me, wondering if it's because all that fast food is making me too overweight... Shit, I don't have it that bad.

Q_C

 

[FallingToFly]

Your horse kicked me!

I told you not to pull his tail.

He didn't kick me when I pulled his tail!

I also told you not to put the hand holding your cigarette on his rump and tap the ashes off.

He didn't kick me when I did that either.

I also warned that under no circumstances were you to scream, or try to snatch up the baby when the baby started climbing his front legs.

Well, that's when he kicked me!

.....


(And fyi... the horse's front legs never moved, and he never picked his head up from where he was nibbling at the baby's hair. he kicked the stupid bitch -away- from my son. He's a possessive and protective kind of critter.)

 

[Tom Collins]

Yep. I can build you a school, fill it with books, hire teachers. I can't take the tests for you. And it's not my fault if you fail. I understand full well that it's not as easy for them as it is for me (and I have trouble keeping my shit straight, LOL) and I also understand that sometimes, the things that are in your way can weigh you down. Some can't overcome it, and we can't fault them for it. But it's your life. No one else lives it for you. No one else can make your decisions, and no one else is responsible for them. I'll be honest with you, I think the problem in the U.S. (in many places, but I don't want to presume to know anyone else's homeland; I merely live here, in mine) is that we've gotten to the point that we've got too much going for us, and we're used to it. We're taking it for granted to the point that there are televisions in nearly every household, window's to the world, cable and satellite communications enhancing it, computers almost as many, internet connections in only a few less, roofs over our heads, nearby centers where we can purchase food instead of having to grow our own and hope we have enough for the winter come fall, and we're constantly in search of more. Yeah, life could be easier, but when many of our biggest problems have to do with Suzy Rottencrotch and worrying about why she dumped me, wondering if it's because all that fast food is making me too overweight... Shit, I don't have it that bad.

Q_C

No shit, Q_C...I'm living in the lap of luxury and bloody well know it. I have the social and economic freedom to eat food that is total garbage if I want to while there are a lot of people out there who can't say that. Too many who have to scrape to have anything at all to eat.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

People are just too picky about the wrong things. Even for a one-nighter, which is cool with me (they're fun, after all), it's not necessarily best to assume that you should go for that hottie alone. Maybe you'll get lucky and she'll be desperate because others were intimidated, so don't exclude her, but don't limit yourself to her. That girl who would be hotter if she wore more or less makeup or had contacts, or whatever, might be just as hot for you or more so. Don't limit your choices and then whine about it.

And don't be a whiner, period. Whining is not going to attract too many people of any sort, for any reason. Take for example this cute brunette that I once knew. I had a serious infatuation with her, but not long after she turned me down (a general refusal for anything from trysts to marriage, she didn't specify any more than I did), I discovered that she was a bit on the whiny side. First, she whined that the computer stations were occupied. Then, she whined that she would NEVER get a husband. Then, she whined that it was too hot (for Apollo's sake, it wasn't even 100 and it WAS Arizona!). She whined about her ex. She whined about her ex's parents wanting to have dinner with her (hell, if she didn't want to go out with them, she could have just told them that). And she whined about a fight with her best friend. Jeez Louise, enough already! God, I dodged a bullet!

Get the picture? Not attractive at all, no matter how good she looked (and she was HOT, I'll say even now). Or no matter how "slender" she was or wasn't (she was one of those thin girls who INSIST that they are too fat ).

As for power, people like different levels, and you'll have always have either as much power as you want or as much as you don't give up. The main thing is to know what you really want ahead of time, like 3113 said. Then go for that.

 

[Munachi]

hm... i find the topic about nice guys always interesting... my brother is very much of a nice guy. and shy, very shy. he says when he likes a girl he usually doesn't manage to even talk to her. he's 25 now, and he has had one girlfriend so far, and that lasted about three months, and then took him a year to get over her...

in his case, he is not usually whining except sometimes when he feels really bad and i encourage him to talk he says some things - not sure if he whines in front of his friends, but i doubt it...

the problem in his case is mainly shyness, but also some things about life style. like, first of all his job - he is a nurse and works almost exclusively late shifts from 3 to 11 pm, and since his job is quite tiring of course, he ends up usually just working and sleeping and maybe hanging out with his best friend. this friend is actually another problem - he is quite the opposite, always has had lots of girlfriends, flirts a lot, not shy at all - and i think this leads to my brother kind of disappearing behind him. he does go out at times, but usually to drum and base places, and my impression from the few times i went to some is they aren't that good for meeting people...

anyway, so what i want to say with this, in part i guess it has to do with life surroundings, with what one does, with how many chances there are to even meet girls (or guys)... and that adding up with shyness can make things quite difficult. i guess it is hard to get out of something like this, because of course self confidence doesn't grow without positive events, and neither does the courage to try new things - but in the end change can only come from oneself...

 

[sweetnpetite]

Ok, I just have to ring in here. My bet is that this guy only wants a certain 'type' of woman- ie thin, beautiful, big breasts, nice ass, ect. In other words, maybe he's not so 'nice' after all because truth be told, he's pretty damn superficial. I notice that most people that say stuff like "oh the babe's never date guys/girls like us- they are SO superficial!" don't consider that they of course are being superficial themselves.

For all people- STOP worrying about who WON'T date you and start focusing on the people that will. STOP wanting only what you can't have, and be willing to take a second look at all those you've been so quick to dismiss yourself.