Underage sex/sex with minors

[BTTap]

One thing I don't get about this site....

is its heavy-handed treatment of the sex with minors thing. The stories can have rape, incest (hell, whole categories are dedicated to those things), murder, mayhem and all sorts of illegal, immoral and objectionable behavior, but heaven forbid there is a reference to sex with someone under the age of 18. Guess what? The legal age of consent in most US states is 16. In many, it is 15, or even 13. Even when it is illegal for an adult to have sex with a minor, most states allow it if the older party is two years older or less. Even mainstream movies have often depicted underage sex (see Kids, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, and The Lover, for a few examples) which might constitute a criminal statutory rape in the eyes of the law. But, you can depict it legally (and not be in danger of prosecution for child pornography) if it has artistic merit. I guess the powers that be at this site have decided to be very strict about such things and cut off any trouble at the pass, but it is a strange zero-tolerance policy.
Or is it? What is the Literotica editorial policy on depicting sexual activity by/between minors? I searched for it, but didn't find it.

 

[lovecraft68]

I agree with your point to a degree. However....

They made the site, they make the rules. If you want to write/read under age go to asstr or storiesonline.

 

[Safe_Bet]

One thing I don't get about this site....

is its heavy-handed treatment of the sex with minors thing. The stories can have rape, incest (hell, whole categories are dedicated to those things), murder, mayhem and all sorts of illegal, immoral and objectionable behavior, but heaven forbid there is a reference to sex with someone under the age of 18. Guess what? The legal age of consent in most US states is 16. In many, it is 15, or even 13. Even when it is illegal for an adult to have sex with a minor, most states allow it if the older party is two years older or less. Even mainstream movies have often depicted underage sex (see Kids, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, and The Lover, for a few examples) which might constitute a criminal statutory rape in the eyes of the law. But, you can depict it legally (and not be in danger of prosecution for child pornography) if it has artistic merit. I guess the powers that be at this site have decided to be very strict about such things and cut off any trouble at the pass, but it is a strange zero-tolerance policy.
Or is it? What is the Literotica editorial policy on depicting sexual activity by/between minors? I searched for it, but didn't find it.

You couldn't have searched too fuckin hard cuz even I found it!

3. No sexual activity involving bestiality (you can write stories about supernatural beasts like ghosts, unicorns, werewolves, etc.) or underage persons will be considered. For the purposes of this site, the minimum legal age is 18. This site does not publish stories, articles, essays, or other material supporting, encouraging, or defending child abuse and/or exploitation.

In other words, no fucking till they are out of high school.

As for why? Because they don't damn well want to have it, dude. Their site, their rules. Want their readership, abide by the rules. Wanna write underage shit, knock yourself out and post it on SOL or ASSTR.

Know what I mean, Jelly Bean???

 

[Weird Harold]

One thing I don't get about this site....

Don't like Lit's editorial policy?

Don't let the door hit you in the ass as you leave.

 

[PennLady]

What is the Literotica editorial policy on depicting sexual activity by/between minors? I searched for it, but didn't find it.

Safe_Bet found the policy, so I won't repeat it here. The only thing I will echo is that it really doesn't matter what the reasoning is. This is a private site, so they get to set the rules. There are other sites with fewer rules, and sites with more rules. EroticStories doesn't allow incest or violence or underage; LushStories doesn't allow underage sex, and is very strict on violence.

If you don't like the rules, don't post here.

 

[Bramblethorn]

But, you can depict it legally (and not be in danger of prosecution for child pornography) if it has artistic merit.

That's a bit naive. Let me modify that statement:

Within US law, you can depict it legally (and not be in danger of conviction for child pornography) if you can convince a judge and/or jury that it has artistic merit.

None of those things can be taken for granted. Extraterritorial jurisdiction means that even a US-based publisher may have to deal with non-US laws (look up "Gutnick vs Dow Jones" for an example). A court might not agree that every story on Lit has artistic merit. And even if you're certain that the law is on your side... well, even an unsuccessful prosecution - or just an investigation that never goes to court - can wreck lives and destroy businesses. Look up "SJ Games vs the Secret Service" and then imagine a scenario like this:

Somebody who is involved in RL child abuse posts a fictionalised account of it on Literotica. Cops investigating that case discover this connection, and decide to go after Literotica to find out whether he's been communicating with other pedophiles on the site. So they stage a raid, seize the servers, and go over them with a fine-toothed comb. The site is down for months, losing revenue. Anybody who ever communicated with the culprit gets investigated. None of them are ever charged - but some of them get outed. What happens to John Smith when his family, neighbours, and workmates discover that he's been talking to a convicted pedophile on a "sexy stories" site? And so on.

That's not the worst case: what happens if a group of RL pedophiles do start using Literotica as a hangout and as a place to find new members? One of the things that makes pedophilia different from the other categories you mention is that RL pedophiles make heavy use of the internet to network and share child-rape porn. Police are aware of this, and put a lot of effort into chasing down those networks.

So if you're running a porn site that has a category that would be attractive to pedophiles, you are taking a very big risk on more levels than one. I can see why they might have decided to draw that line.

 

[Stella_Omega]

All we need to know is that Laurel doesn't want sex with minors or animals on her website.

She never has-- and this site has been collecting amateur writers since 1998.

I doubt you have any arguments that will change her mind.

 

[estragon]

There are state laws in the US that make a criminal offense out of watching child porn on a computer (or otherwise), even if not downloaded or further distributed, where real children are involved. I don't blame the proprietors in the least. After years of neglect, legislators and prosecutors are hunting child pornographers with hydrogen bombs. And heaven help anyone who gets too close.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Now, do you get it?

 

[Cruel2BKind]

Sorry BT, this has been discussed at length here, so everybody knows all sides of the argument. We just gave you the short and ugly version of it.

If you want to read about kiddie sex, read stories with eighteen year olds and imagine them younger. That's what many of the authors are doing anyway.

 

[Darkniciad]

Okay, I know this discussion comes up over and over again, and quite often, it turns ugly. But, do we really need to talk down to the OP in anticipation of a nasty retort when it happens as if they're aware of what has come before and should know better?

No, I don't accept the "they should search" argument. Have you ever tried to search for anything on this forum? Good luck with that. The search function is completely useless unless you have a member name to work with.

Show of hands: How many believe the FAQ is easy to navigate, clear in what it says, an comprehensive?

Is it so hard to answer the question by citing the FAQ, Laurel's statements, and previous threads for someone new without taking the "if you don't like it fuck off" attitude or accusing them of being a pedophile?

How about we give people a chance before assuming they're going to follow in the footsteps of too many who have come before?

Since the FAQ has already been cited, here's Laurel ( that's the site owner ) giving her take on it.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=2151906

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

All we need to know is that Laurel doesn't want sex with minors or animals on her website.

She never has-- and this site has been collecting amateur writers since 1998.

I doubt you have any arguments that will change her mind.

Youre a childish animal.

 

[lovecraft68]

For the record, I wouldn't quite site this as zero tolerance.

What the site wants is nothing that blatantly states under age. I.E. "When I was 13 I did xyz and described in detail.

However, there are many authors here that when you read their work you jusy know these people are underage, but they're not stating it. The site is fine with that because the story is getting them hits, but if anything ever came of it they can say "well, they didn't state the age.

They are clever in this. Things like not allowing "baby sitter" in a story title or tag, but you can write about them. They are conscience of people searching for underage stories through google and don't want to pop up on top of the searches.

Same goes for no use of the word "rape" in titles and tags. You can certainly write about it, but its called non consent.

Its all semantics. Lit is a business and Laurel will accept whatever she can to make money, but is smart enough to have ways for some CYA.

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

Oh really - this topic again! *yawns*

What does it matter if they are 16 - 26 -57 - 108 ---- it's all sex and FICTION! If you want them 16, then read and imagine they are 16, if you don't like the rules - LEAVE - but good grief KILL THIS TOPIC!!

 

[lovecraft68]

Oh really - this topic again! *yawns*

What does it matter if they are 16 - 26 -57 - 108 ---- it's all sex and FICTION! If you want them 16, then read and imagine they are 16, if you don't like the rules - LEAVE - but good grief KILL THIS TOPIC!!

Free speech site. No topic is "killable."

But Dark has the best answer here. The site is difficult to navigate and it seems as if the site would rather have the rules hidden then put it somewhere that they are easily found.

They set themselves up for this. No, they set us up for this, because this is where people come to ask questions, then we all come in with our opinions.

Not for the first time, I think this is deliberate and Laurel reads these things and laughs her ass off.

Good for her, I can respect that type of humor.

 

[jomar]

While we're on it, I need help finding a story...

 

[Safe_Bet]

Free speech site. No topic is "killable."

But Dark has the best answer here. The site is difficult to navigate and it seems as if the site would rather have the rules hidden then put it somewhere that they are easily found.

They set themselves up for this. No, they set us up for this, because this is where people come to ask questions, then we all come in with our opinions.

Not for the first time, I think this is deliberate and Laurel reads these things and laughs her ass off.

Good for her, I can respect that type of humor.

Dude, both you and Darkbitch are full of shit.

I had NEVER looked for the rules before and it took me a half dozen clicks and 30 seconds to find them and as MANY here will agree I'm not Einstein. It's just not that difficult. All that is required is to be WILLING to find rules your Prima Donna asses prolly don't want to comply with in the first place.

If it proves too difficult for most writers to navigate then that would also explain why most of them can't write worth a shit either. Consider it a very basic intelligence test. If you can't "pass" it you have no business posting yo shit!

 

[Stella_Omega]

While we're on it, I need help finding a story...

And how about those horrible comments!

Oh, and how long does it take my story to post?

 

[Darkniciad]

Two more topics where newcomers are often raked over the coals or treated as a joke before receiving anything resembling an answer.

Am I the only one who sees the pattern here?

This is just as much of a problem as the political threads, the post stalking, and all the other nastiness.

So, a question comes up several times. Why exactly is that offense punishable by immediate ostracizing? Copy a response and keep it somewhere so you can paste it when the question comes up. That's what I do with editing/deleting questions.

If that's too much trouble, here's a novel idea. Don't bother replying. If they're not worth the time to respond to with an answer, then don't waste the time responding at all.

At least then, the worst case scenario is that the poster assumes people are snobs and assholes, instead of people proving it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

[BTTap]

Ok

I guess my question on what the policy is answered. I couldn't find it, so if that makes me a fucking idiot, so be it. The rationale is what it is, I guess-the consensus seems to be: because that's how it is. What made me ask was not a particular interest in under-age erotica; frankly, I have no interest in reading or writing it. It's just that I was reading a new submission which apparently had a difficult time getting through the screeners; not because it portrayed sex with/between minors, but because it had passing references to a fictional religious sect that practiced it. The author mentioned the problems he had getting the story published here, so that got me wondering.
Thank you to those who bothered to answer my question. And to those who popped off at me, fuck you very much.

 

[scouries]

Okay, I know this discussion comes up over and over again, and quite often, it turns ugly. But, do we really need to talk down to the OP in anticipation of a nasty retort when it happens as if they're aware of what has come before and should know better?

No, I don't accept the "they should search" argument. Have you ever tried to search for anything on this forum? Good luck with that. The search function is completely useless unless you have a member name to work with.

Show of hands: How many believe the FAQ is easy to navigate, clear in what it says, an comprehensive?

Is it so hard to answer the question by citing the FAQ, Laurel's statements, and previous threads for someone new without taking the "if you don't like it fuck off" attitude or accusing them of being a pedophile?

How about we give people a chance before assuming they're going to follow in the footsteps of too many who have come before?

Since the FAQ has already been cited, here's Laurel ( that's the site owner ) giving her take on it.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=2151906

While I don't generally agree with darkboy in this case he has hit the nail on the head (perhaps because it didn't involve any mathematics and/or graphing).

For some reason every time some newby asks a relatively straight forward question he gets ganged up on by the same old AHers. "If you don't like it fuck off" is invariably shouted at him.

Maybe these old AHers should start asking themselves why these same questions keep being asked.

The FAQ of this site is difficult to navigate and hasn't been updated in years (something db tried to correct some time ago).

The other observation I'll make is that simply because there is a policy in place (even if difficult to find) doesn't mean there can't be discussions about the policy by users of the site.

In fact a forum called the Authors Hangout should be exactly the place to raise it and discuss it.

And why pray tell do these same members of the old guard invariably use words like "kiddie sex", "child porn", "pedophilia" the second someone suggests that its odd that an erotic story site does not allow anyy description of sexual contact between people under eighteen. Most all of us had sexual experiences (and probably very memorable ones) before this age.

And no, most of them didn't involve phedophiles.

LAUREL has taken a position that is understandable but certainly not to be lauded. To get rid of potential problems for herself she has gone against her beliefs.​

 

[PennLady]

BTT -- Sorry for the rough welcome.

I suppose it is a bit frustrating, but most of us find the rationale behind the no-underage-sex rule just doesn't matter. Them's the rules.

As for the story you mentioned, I'm not sure why it was initially rejected or whatever, but there are plenty of reasons a story might not make it on the first pass, from not being long enough to bad punctuation.

 

[Darkniciad]

Odds are that the rejection was for underage, and that was specifically cited in the author's discussion attached to the story. That's what I'm gathering from the posts, anyway.

Which brings me to something I stress whenever the subject of rejection comes up. There's only one person screening stories. By necessity, that involves speed reading to keep up with the number of stories released daily.

Inevitably, that's going to result in some things getting through that probably shouldn't, and things getting rejected that probably shouldn't be.

If your story is rejected on content grounds, and you don't believe it should have been, the first step...

( Maybe... There's a chance that someone else such as another forum member who's been around longer may be able to read your story and find the red flag that caused the rejection, so that's an option before re-submitting. )

...is to re-submit with a note in the "notes" section. Usually, there's something in the story ( as in this case ) which dances on the line of a content rule. You mention in the notes section that you don't feel it does, point it out, explain it, and whatever content caused the initial rejection will get more scrutiny on the second pass. If you're right, it will go up. Otherwise, you know that the content goes over the line, even if you didn't believe so.

If you don't have any idea what triggered the content rejection, then you'll have to say you don't believe there's anything that breaks content rules in the notes section. If it's rejected in that case, your only absolute recourse is to contact Laurel via PM and ask.

The "Notes" section is your friend. Utilize it whenever you have anything that dances on the edge of content rules, or could be mistaken as such. Maybe there's a character in the story who's stated to be thirteen, but is never anywhere near the sex. On a speed read, it's possible to mix up the underage character and the one in the sex scene. If you mention the young character, saying they're never around the sex in the "notes" section, that mistake isn't going to happen.

The same applies for many things. Do you write with the British convention of punctuation in dialogue? Point that out so you don't get rejected for breaking the American version of the grammar rules. Is there a section where bad spelling or puctuation is used intentionally, as part of the story? Point it out before submitting.

 

[RodenAddison]

Underage

Personally, I think it's a good policy. Don't want it to turn into a kiddy porn site. I wrote a story where a couple role played an underage situation and got rejected. At first I was kind of miffed, but then I considered how much I'm paying (nada) to see my stories on a site and get access to editor's comments.

I wrote a series, which was accepted and posted about a tiny woman (four foot eight) who's twenty-two. (Wild Things Have No Names) Her body description is almost childlike and there are many women out there who are built exactly that way even though they are adults. Why do people feel it's so important to drag underage characters onto the site. Sure it happens in real life but that doesn't mean it's the right thing. Sure in some past cultures people married who were in their early teens. So what. The way I look at it is that it's their site. They can set whatever policy they like.

Sexually, I have no desire to be with children. Maturity and experience are what brings ultimate pleasure. Lots of virgins out there too (contrary to popular belief) who are also the age of majority.

 

[lovecraft68]

And how about those horrible comments!

Oh, and how long does it take my story to post?

And what about all those views that show up while my story is still pending!

Oh, and umm, any hot girls in the New England area want to chat?