Unconsensual exposure

[Krinaia]

I recently met some local "lifestylers" and they were a really nice bunch of people - very friendly, very welcoming. Of course, I am a single young woman new to their midst, so who can really guess what their admittedly devious minds were up to. The occasion of meeting them and introducing myself to their group brought up several questions and perhaps concerns.

My career dictates that I cannot be licensed if I am charged with a crime. My salary doubling and eight years to nine years of my life with close to 40,000 of student loans depend on my ability my ability to be licensed. I need to research that more intensely what can inhibit my being licensed, but definitely felonies are a no-no. So living, in a bible belt state where most enjoyable sex is against the law, I had some questions to ask the experienced locals and got some excellent answers and offers of assistance. The main point of an ex-cop I spoke to, was that if you keep your kink behind closed doors and don't expose other people to it, and act with common sense, you won't have a problem It is the non-consensual exposure to the vanilla world that makes the activities a problem – in terms of getting caught and booked. And that got me to thinking about issues of consent.

Several codes of conduct have been created by those in the kink lifestyle to protect matters of consent and safety. We don’t allow children or animals who cannot consent because of maturity and intellect – be included in our sexual escapades. Some of us enjoy the occasional “rape” scene but hopefully, we have pre-consented to the affair before it happens and have outs if we change our minds. But those of us with exhibitionist or voyeur streaks (not personally one of them) – can we ever really get the consent of those we might involve in our kink? Can the general public ever consent? They can’t really and laws are there to protect them, I know I have no desire to have my innocent trip to the grocery store interrupted by some dominant bending a submissive over a shopping cart and spanking her for having dented a can. So maybe we arrange for a friend to stand outside our window and watch us. Or we take the chance and let someone play under our skirt beneath the white linen table cloth of our favorite restaurant.

Is it fair of us? Do we care?

 

[DVS]

...But those of us with exhibitionist or voyeur streaks (not personally one of them) – can we ever really get the consent of those we might involve in our kink? Can the general public ever consent? They can’t really and laws are there to protect them, I know I have no desire to have my innocent trip to the grocery store interrupted by some dominant bending a submissive over a shopping cart and spanking her for having dented a can. So maybe we arrange for a friend to stand outside our window and watch us. Or we take the chance and let someone play under our skirt beneath the white linen table cloth of our favorite restaurant.

Is it fair of us? Do we care?

The "non" of non-consent is the stickler here. The general public can't consent, because the whole idea behind exhibitionism and other exposures is the risk of doing so in front of a stranger. If you find a stranger and ask their consent, they are no longer a stranger (if they stick around for the show, after you explained your intentions) and there is really no longer any risk.

I'm not into exhibitonism, myself, but I do see it as exciting, so I'm a bit of a voyour to exhibition, I guess. But, it all comes down to the "non" prefix. Strangers are not likely to be consensual for the exhibitionist, and that means they will more than likely be offended by such an overt act of sexual nudity.

A major part of exhibitionism is the risk of getting caught. If you don't get caught, you get your thrills for the day, and are enamored to try again tomorrow. But, if the persistant neighborhood busy body, who just happens to be watching, makes a phone call to the police, this will quickly become a non-issue, because the exhibitionist will be in jail.

Is it fair?
That's a two sided question. Both sides have valid arguments. But, the law will only favor one side, I'm sure.

Do I care?
Well, I like to see everybody get what they want in life, as long as it doesn't bother others. Do I see this as bothering others? First, I don't have kids. I do see it as a problem, if exhibitionists target kids. But, mostly it depends on the naked body of the exhibitionist in question and... (if this body is not that pleasant looking) how close to the dinner hour it is.

Hey, find an apartment adjacent to some swingin' singles and leave your shades open. It worked in "FRIENDS". Even though he was ugly, they still looked.

 

[Krinaia]

Hey, find an apartment adjacent to some swingin' singles and leave your shades open. It worked in "FRIENDS". Even though he was ugly, they still looked.

Well I have a second question of a similar nature attached to this one meeting experience - but I'm reserving it until more people post here, that way I'll know better how to word it so that it only gets rhetorical (hopefully) attention and no one takes it to heart.

And, I keep my shades strictly SHUT. There are small children in this neighbordhood - but you should check out my living single and alone thread if you want to know others ways besides exhibitionism that I take advantage of my situation.

 

[brioche]

I do see some of your concerns, Skyline. If you check out my posts, I am a teacher, of little kids at that, and I can be fired for "Commiting acts which another member would consider unbecoming of the profession", or some crap like that. So yeah, I worry about exposure too.

As to the other issue, I have no opinion, because it's stormy here and I have a headache.

There were floods (including a little from the storm drain in our basement), possible tornadoes, winds, and lots and lots of rain. Tree branches all over.
I should have used my brain and taken my migraine med earlier, when I woke up from my nap.
Fuck.
brioche

 

[FurryFury]

He he well, I am not one to let others see a damn thing, although I like the idea of doing it in public places, just hidden.

That being said, I have gotten caught once but since that couple was clearly coming to the pool to fuck too and laughing, enjoying watching us, I ain't sweating that one.

The other night though we had a little oopsie. This kid comes over to play with our son all the damn time. The minute my husband walks in the door after work I tell them time is up and tell him to go home. Well the other night I was busy, didn't watch things at all and just assumed that the kid was gone.

My husband didn't know or think about anyone else being in the house. This is why I worry. He went straight in the kitchen and began to take off his clothes as usual. So then he went straight to the bathroom. He just about walked his dick into this kids face. Rut Roo!

Then my girl said this kid has seen her nude too! Soooooo. No wonder this kid likes to hang out here.

Yikes!

Fury

 

[graceanne]

Well, I'm not an exhibitionist and I'm a mother. I can tell you that if someone's gonna do something in front of my children, they're gonna have a new asshole.

There are places you can do the whole exhibitionist thing. Like the local makeout spot. I'm sorry, but if someone goes to a make out spot, in the evening, thry shouldn't be surprised if they see someone naked. lol

 

[FurryFury]

Well, I'm not an exhibitionist and I'm a mother. I can tell you that if someone's gonna do something in front of my children, they're gonna have a new asshole.

There are places you can do the whole exhibitionist thing. Like the local makeout spot. I'm sorry, but if someone goes to a make out spot, in the evening, thry shouldn't be surprised if they see someone naked. lol

Hi Beautiful Graceanne!

I agree with you, I would never do anything in front of kids on purpose. I try to keep things ordered so that accidents don't happen too.

Knowing this kid the way I do, he is probably looking for opportunities. That won't happen again. I'm going to keep a closer watch on him from now on.

There are places that you shouldn't expect a G rating in public though.

Fury

 

[Krinaia]

He he well, I am not one to let others see a damn thing, although I like the idea of doing it in public places, just hidden.

That being said, I have gotten caught once but since that couple was clearly coming to the pool to fuck too and laughing, enjoying watching us, I ain't sweating that one.

The other night though we had a little oopsie. This kid comes over to play with our son all the damn time. The minute my husband walks in the door after work I tell them time is up and tell him to go home. Well the other night I was busy, didn't watch things at all and just assumed that the kid was gone.

My husband didn't know or think about anyone else being in the house. This is why I worry. He went straight in the kitchen and began to take off his clothes as usual. So then he went straight to the bathroom. He just about walked his dick into this kids face. Rut Roo!

Then my girl said this kid has seen her nude too! Soooooo. No wonder this kid likes to hang out here.

Yikes!

Fury

Okay and here comes my second question.

Last night at the munch, someone mentioned their daughter and put several things for her toy bag on her X-mas list which I inwardly chuckled at seeing as how there are so many workshop days left til Christmas. But then the daughter's age was said - 16. !6 is not old enough to consent or be collecting toys, in my opinion. Not to say you can't be open and exploratory at that age - but it raises the concern for me that it's wrong to expose your child to your sex life. It's one thing if they know mommy and daddy like leather but to have detailed knowledge and be involved in it? They can't consent to it. Now this attitude may be a unique part of my own upbringing - my parents sheltered me from religion until I was old enough to BEGIN to understand death and the concept of the divine. I was taught to ask questions and recognize right from wrong by making my own educated and truthful judgement calls. It is perhaps why I never questioned that something was wrong with my kinky bondage loving self until I was 18 or 19.

And maybe it says something - what, I dunno - but I feel a little uneasy even just realizing my parents make out much less fuck. Or ever did. Bleh. So what kind of impression can it make on children when parents are TOO open about their sexuality?

I had a roommate that had this problem - she didn't understand that strangers didn't want to be involved involuntarily in her sex life or see it. She would allow her boyfriend/fiance to come unannounced into our tiny shared space at all times. She was CONSTANTLY on the phone discussing everything from birth control methods to sex positions. WE had some nasty fights involving my right to be able to relax in "our" room. She also would have long conversations from under her bedspred - or not - involving a lot of repetition of coy laughing little "yes"'s and "no's". Gag me. Another time, my best friend who also lived on our floor of this particular co-ed dorm, walked by our room, the door was open, her shirt was off and he was unhooking her bra and licking the tops of her breasts. The door was open. In a dorm. Another time, she told me that her mom taught her everything she new about giving a good blowjob. And there is something to educating your children and then there is this fine line that disallows them from knowing where boundaries of personal space and politeness exist.

To me, it is personally an unresolved issue. I think that parents should sheild their children yet educate them - allow for personal boundaries to remain in place. Let them figure out their own way in the world and try to stop catasrophies but allow them to experiment safely on their own. Children can't consent to somet of these things. Where does this fine line exist? I mean should you really be encouraging your 16 year old to improve her spanking skills? Shouldn't she just be working on her ability to relate to other 16 year olds without the kink? I mean if my roommate had been taught that, she wouldn't have been so dumbfounded by the fact that 1 - I didn't want to be exposed to hours upon hours of "yes.... yes.... giggle, yes... yes..."

Course, I don't have kids so what do I know.

Where does the line exist between allowing yourself to be as kinky as you want to be and not forcing your kinky self on the entire world who can't necessarily consent to be exposed?

 

[Netzach]

I will only push the edges lightly in public in a bar where everyone's over 21 and even then it's very unclear to most people watching what's going on.

 

[Krinaia]

I will only push the edges lightly in public in a bar where everyone's over 21 and even then it's very unclear to most people watching what's going on.

I suppose that this is a "controlled" environment where it can be hot and unoticed yet noticable.

I'll keep this in mind.

 

[Krinaia]

I want to add, that I meant bars are one thing - if their is dancing, people are dry humping anyhow...

I suppose my rhetorical questions are more about mor epublic places where not so horny people are hanging out.

 

[FurryFury]

Okay in my opinion parents who are either too open and too interested in their kids sexuality or their own OR people who are too uptight about it do wrong by their kids.

My parents told me nothing. I mean I was told not to look, touch or think about things down "there."

On the other hand, certain family members were waaaay too interested in my sexuality.

I also found some serious sex toys at my grandparents house at a young age.

So I got both ends of the above problems.

With my kids, I never push anything in their faces. I simply remain open to discuss anything they want to, when they want to, to the extent they want to.

We do not flaunt what we do in front of them. They might hear a few things. They will see us hug and kiss in public. In our own home we will walk nude to the bathroom from time to time, that is life, bodies are beautiful but it's not directed at the kids for show. They walk around nude at times too. We when get busy we expect them to respect our privacy. When they want privacy we respect that too.

However what I will do in a bar? That is a whole nother story.

Fury

 

[Rrrosyn]

I discussed this with a former submissive once. High-powered job, marketing, met a lot of people and he didn't want anyone to suspect he wanted to be treated like a dog.

We finally decided the only way would be to travel out of the area. And go to a club (or private party) where such behavior was acceptable. The key being no one would recognize him out of area. Also we discussed simple feature covers, such as slicking his hair back or face paint to make him a puppy.

 

[FurryFury]

I discussed this with a former submissive once. High-powered job, marketing, met a lot of people and he didn't want anyone to suspect he wanted to be treated like a dog.

We finally decided the only way would be to travel out of the area. And go to a club (or private party) where such behavior was acceptable. The key being no one would recognize him out of area. Also we discussed simple feature covers, such as slicking his hair back or face paint to make him a puppy.

Makes sense to me!

Fury

 

[catalina_francisco]

On the issue of kids having interests in kink and at what age it is their choice and consensual, I have to differ....not about exposing them to it, but about when they begin to have their own ideas which are not from anything they have seen or heard. I know I had deviot D/s type fantasies at a very early age (pre double figures) and my own parents were not sexual in the least and it was not discussed in the home, nor was nudity seen as normal. Then my parents accidentally found my daughter's little book of fantasies when she was about 8......hmmmm, well at that stage I was not actively in BDSM and she had been detailing her fantasies for a couple of years in her book (so from about 6) and they were nearly all about being tied up by boys, or the headmistress, being forced to perform sexual favours, being spanked, spanking other etc., so clearly she knew what she wanted from an early age as many here have also said they did....then she went and bought her first flogger at 16 on her own and without my knowing until she pulled it out to show me...and I didn't even have one!!! Given all that, I think it just as wrong to try and suppress someone like that or make them think what they fantasise about or want is bad.

As to the exhibitionist thing....it doesn't work if you arrange things so it is all consensual, but you can also use your head when and where you do it. Consent is important, but in the areas of exhibitionisma nd voyeurism, it is the surprise element and unknown quality which adds a lot of the attraction and fix for the act. Fortunately, it is not something here which people go into vapours over regularly, but we also need to be mindful because of career risks. That being said though, we do not usually do anything where children might be around, or if they might be, we are very careful and keep an eye out. We also usually chose very secluded places, late night as a time, or places which are recognised as sex spots or where people are going to be ore likely to accept it. It is manageable and it is more often than not, if seen by others, appreciated for the fact it is a fun act and sexual freedom.

Catalina

 

[Krinaia]

On the issue of kids having interests in kink and at what age it is their choice and consensual, I have to differ....not about exposing them to it, but about when they begin to have their own ideas which are not from anything they have seen or heard. I know I had deviot D/s type fantasies at a very early age (pre double figures) and my own parents were not sexual in the least and it was not discussed in the home, nor was nudity seen as normal. Then my parents accidentally found my daughter's little book of fantasies when she was about 8......hmmmm, well at that stage I was not actively in BDSM and she had been detailing her fantasies for a couple of years in her book (so from about 6) and they were nearly all about being tied up by boys, or the headmistress, being forced to perform sexual favours, being spanked, spanking other etc., so clearly she knew what she wanted from an early age as many here have also said they did....then she went and bought her first flogger at 16 on her own and without my knowing until she pulled it out to show me...and I didn't even have one!!! Given all that, I think it just as wrong to try and suppress someone like that or make them think what they fantasise about or want is bad.

I never said anything about supressing children - I'm not trying to aim my questions about what is right or wrong to tell your children only what is sensible to expose your children to. Nudity occasionally I think would maybe be okay. I never have seen my parents naked and while the thought is somewhat uneasy and maybe gorss - I have to admit if I had learned that they chubbiness was okay and beautiful at a young age, I might not have the self-image issues that I do. You can leave educational books laying around knowing your children will read them (on sex or bdsm) as a more passive form of educating your children without showing them it's okay when daddy or mommy beats mommy or daddy - that's just too much right?

late night as a time, or places which are recognised as sex spots or where

My issue with known sex spots (say parks or make out look outs) is that usually the police are aware of these places and regularly patrol such areas. Getting caught by police and perhaps arrested because they find you tied up in the back seat of your car sucking your lovers cock like a good girl - might be received incorrectly by that policeman's well meaning intrusion. Just making out there or having your shirt off might seem okay to him but if he sees you tied up, he might suddenly pull his gun and start demanding your lover to get out of the car and spread his legs - an experience you guys hadn't counted on... right?

 

[catalina_francisco]

My issue with known sex spots (say parks or make out look outs) is that usually the police are aware of these places and regularly patrol such areas. Getting caught by police and perhaps arrested because they find you tied up in the back seat of your car sucking your lovers cock like a good girl - might be received incorrectly by that policeman's well meaning intrusion. Just making out there or having your shirt off might seem okay to him but if he sees you tied up, he might suddenly pull his gun and start demanding your lover to get out of the car and spread his legs - an experience you guys hadn't counted on... right?

LOL well we don't live in the US and the sex spots here are listed on the net for all to see and know and not of interest to police...they are places to go for anonymous encounters with others, or just yourselves for the benifit of others who might happen to also be there..the police tend to think there are more important things for them to checkout. Nudity is legal here, and if you want to go to Germany to the right places, sunbathing naked in the local park while on your lunch break is completely legal...BDSM is also legal here in Holland so is not going to be an arrest risk. It is not a rarity here in the Netherlands (especially Amsterdam) to see someone exposed or playing in a risque sexual way in public....doesn't usually warrant even a second glance unless the observer finds it hot and wants to watch. The Red Light District is very popular with tourists simply because I think most find it unreal to be in such a sexually open environment where no matter where you look, flesh is on display in various shapes, colours, genders, sexual orientations, and sizes...it is just a totally different culture.

As to children...I didn't say you suppressed children nor did I think it as you have none to my knowledge....but the topic was raised by you about whether sexuality should be recognised or accepted at 16 and that you did not question your liking for such things until you were 18/19. You voiced your disapproval of the parents of the 16yo in question who you met at the munch, and as I read it (and I could have misinterpreted your words) you assumed the parents had influenced that teenagers sexual choices. I was pointing out that it isn't necessarily so and if you have a child who is so inclined, to poo poo it and make them feel they are not capable or ready to feel those things, or they are bad, can cause just as much harm as someone needlessly exposing them at an early age. I think it is far healthier to acknowledge it and be able to openly talk about it with your child/ren.

My children did not see nudity in my home (hve never seen me nude to my knowledge), did not see anyone having sex, were not molested, were not educated by me as to what was good sex except for the usual molestation safety talks, and were not given porn to read at bedtime, but they had the usual sexual feelings many children have felt and develop and as many have posted here in the past, their fantasies of a D/s or sexual nature began in early childhood without provocation from anyone or anything. My own daughter has told me she would likely be dead by now if she had not had a mother she could ask questions of, talk to, and who taught her the realities when she was ready and asked and made sure she knew what safety meant in all things sexual. The reality is children do have sexual curiosities from the age of 3-4 at least, and many do develop sexual fantasies from an early age thoug h at the time they may not know it to be sexual, and many do not have any outside influences to form those fantasies..they just are.

Catalina

 

[Krinaia]

It isn't so much that I disapprove so much as that the idea of a 16 year being that open about her sexuality with her kinky parents that just makes me uneasy and maybe that to is my American prudishnes showing. I don't know. I don't know the circumstances of how their daughter decided to be a dominatrizx at 16. It just makes me curious and the only reason I questioned it at 18/19 had nothing to do with my choice of being able to get off in a kinky manners so much as that I thought I was ugly and didn't deserve happiness. Which is an entire different matter.

I guess the entire thing I'm putting into consideration - is what is consent, who can consent for themselves and the repucrssions of this if you are noisy or an exhibitionist. And I suppose an issue that must be raised to is what culturally is acceptable or unacceptable because as you've just illustrated, the question of right or wrong of public sceneing (at least in legal terms) is not even under debate in the Netherlands. I'm curious - I wonder what about that part of the world that makes them so much more free with their sexuality?

 

[caela]

It isn't so much that I disapprove so much as that the idea of a 16 year being that open about her sexuality with her kinky parents that just makes me uneasy and maybe that to is my American prudishnes showing. I don't know. I don't know the circumstances of how their daughter decided to be a dominatrizx at 16. It just makes me curious and the only reason I questioned it at 18/19 had nothing to do with my choice of being able to get off in a kinky manners so much as that I thought I was ugly and didn't deserve happiness. Which is an entire different matter.

I guess the entire thing I'm putting into consideration - is what is consent, who can consent for themselves and the repucrssions of this if you are noisy or an exhibitionist. And I suppose an issue that must be raised to is what culturally is acceptable or unacceptable because as you've just illustrated, the question of right or wrong of public sceneing (at least in legal terms) is not even under debate in the Netherlands. I'm curious - I wonder what about that part of the world that makes them so much more free with their sexuality?

Consent is a mental process, some 16 year olds are mentally able to give it and some simply aren't. Legally of course in most place the age of consent is 17 or 18 for sex but everyone knows teenagers younger than that are consenting to sex.

I grew up with my mom and she wouldn't have talked about sex with me when I was younger to save my life. That might sound like an exaggeration but it's not, my stepdad was the one to pull out one of her medical books and explain to me what was going on when I hit puberty! My father on the other hand has always been very open about sex and sexuality and has always been someone I could talk to. At 16 he gave me a handcuff key (I was so naive I had to ask what the heck it was) and told me to keep it on my keychain because someday some idiot boy would lose his and he wanted me to be prepared. I was embarassed a bit but it's been on my keychain since and come in handy a time or two for friends as well as myself lol.

These days both my parents are open to talking about sex with me and I'm out as far as my kinkiness goes with both of them. Personally I think it's kinda cool that this girl feels she can be so open with her parents at such a young age and that they are supportive of her. It's not your typical situation but it doesn't sound like a necessarily bad situation either. Heck, I'm actually a little jealous...I wish my folks would buy toys for me!

Sorry this was all just a really long way of saying that the only ones who really know if she's mature enough to consent are herself and her parents but I am in a rambling mood today.

 

[Netzach]

I'll say I think what those parents are doing is dangerous and stupid, for a completely different reason -- what would happen if not you, but people with a whole lot of paranoia got wind of it.

It doesn't take much to start a witch hunt when kids and sexuality are concerned. They are jeopardizing their freedom and their custody, IMO.

 

[graceanne]

First of all, I agree with Netzach about the witch hunt. I don't even take frontal nude pictures of my children, cause i'm afraid that somone's gonna decide that's pornography and turn me in. (Which just makes me wonder about the person who thinks that that' pornography - does it turn them on? )

And the mental image of the cops finding a couple, one tied up, and all that . . . *giggles* I'm sorry my weird sense of humor got me. It wouldn't be funny in r/l, but it is to imagine. But beyond that, I think the chances of getting arrested depends on how tied up you are. If you have a set of handcuffs, well even Cosmo (the magazine) suggests that as a way to spice up your sex life. And bondage is not necessary for domination, nor is it necessary for exhibitionism.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I don't even take frontal nude pictures of my children, cause i'm afraid that somone's gonna decide that's pornography and turn me in. (Which just makes me wonder about the person who thinks that that' pornography - does it turn them on? )

LOL, I don't have any nude pics of my chidren past the bathtub and on the rug standards at a few months of age....but then I also think if people take them because they love their children and see the beauty of the moment, there is nothing wrong with it. What I thik is happening in our society is a lot of people do have such thoughts that are not acceptable and then see fit to project them onto others to hide their own guilt and decadence.

Catalina

 

[graceanne]

LOL, I don't have any nude pics of my chidren past the bathtub and on the rug standards at a few months of age....but then I also think if people take them because they love their children and see the beauty of the moment, there is nothing wrong with it. What I thik is happening in our society is a lot of people do have such thoughts that are not acceptable and then see fit to project them onto others to hide their own guilt and decadence.

Catalina

That's what I think. I think if someone looks a picture of a naked child and immediately thinks pornography, then they're the perverts - not me. Beyond that, it's not like I haven't seen all their parts. If I didn't see all their parts (during diaper changes) I'd be in trouble for neglect. (And no I don't want to take pictures of them like that - I'm just making a point.) So it's not seeing them naked that's the issue, it's taking a picture of it. Once, when my dad was visiting, D was running around naked, and he found my dad's cowboy boots and hat. Fully naked he put on the boots and the hat and was walking (sorta - he's only 2) around in them. It was so funny! And more so cause he was naked. I did not take a picture of it, though, because he was naked, and I'm not gonna risk loosing him for that picture.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm curious - I wonder what about that part of the world that makes them so much more free with their sexuality?

I'm not sure I have the answer though as an outsider who now lives here, the differences hit me in the face every day if I stop to think about them. When I first came here it was more a point of notice for me but now has dulled somewhat due to aclimatising somewhat. The best I can do is that I think it a total different cultural approach to many things. Coming from Oz and also having visited the US and grown up in a culture largely influenced by US and UK culture, the differences are sometimes like black and white.

Some of the big differences that hit me include behaviour and age. It is rare to hear a parent raise their voice at their children here, or the child to throw a tantrum in the local shopping centre or playground....in Oz it is a common thing to see/hear...here there is a respect and air of caring and nurturing children, and most children behave well and maturely and are listened to by their parents no matter what is going on around them.

In Oz and the US for the most part a woman of a certain age is expected for the most part to dress and act according to what society sees fit for her age....hence a lot of those who think it icky to consider their parents having sex or being naked. Here it is totally different. My observations in Holland are women are not out of place to dress sexily at any age, and without the benefit of plastic surgery....it is not unusual to see women in their 50-70's out shopping in mini skirts, leather, stilletto's and fishnets...it is considered normal and sexy, even if she has the wrinkles of a 60 yo...and most do look sexy as well as comfortable and happy with their age and sexuality. It is not unusual to see old people holding hands, kissing, light caressing in public.....it is just seen as natural.Even in the media, an older woman is respected and seen in front of the camera, wrinkles and all...and even on some of the programmes where people are interviewed or filmed nude or scening.....older men and women are featured just as naturally as younger people...it just is not seen as bad or unusual.

Age of consent for sex is also a little different here. Chidren under 12 are not permtted to have sex, but from 12-16 it is a matter of debate. Though it is not illegal it is not legal either in a sense. If they do have sex, as long as their parents, themselves, police or a child protection agent does not press charges, it is accepted as OK. Prostitution is legal from 18. Then issues of homosexuality is also a big difference where it is not only OK, but has protections within the law for gays, and for some parts of the armed forces, tests are carried out before accepting an enlistment to determine if they will be gay friendly or not...if not, they do not get any further. In all areas of the Dutch armed forces to my knowledge to be actively gay is accepted as equally as it is for heterosexuals. The whole mindset of the culture seems so different in so many areas to what we in Oz and the US are raised to know and live by.

Catalina

 

[Krinaia]

First of all, I agree with Netzach about the witch hunt. I don't even take frontal nude pictures of my children, cause i'm afraid that somone's gonna decide that's pornography and turn me in. (Which just makes me wonder about the person who thinks that that' pornography - does it turn them on? )

And the mental image of the cops finding a couple, one tied up, and all that . . . *giggles* I'm sorry my weird sense of humor got me. It wouldn't be funny in r/l, but it is to imagine. But beyond that, I think the chances of getting arrested depends on how tied up you are. If you have a set of handcuffs, well even Cosmo (the magazine) suggests that as a way to spice up your sex life. And bondage is not necessary for domination, nor is it necessary for exhibitionism.

No... but I'm a bondage fetishist and I let my ex-boyfriend, well not let him so much as encouraged him - to tie me up in the backseat of my car. It was a secluded wooded area and he tied my wrists to the handle above the door and we had our wicked ways with each other. Very sexy.... but perhaps, also very dangerous. And now I'm wondering if we let our horniness get the better of our judgement. It was insanely hot, I wanted to remain there all night - but now, just realizing the risk we might have been taking, makes me shake my head in disgust. it was still hot though.