UK Schooling

[Vermilion]

The longer I observe what's happeneing to State education in this country the more disgusted I am by it. Schools seem to be shutting down all extra-curricular activities in favour of more time spent learning formulae - learning *how* to pass exams and precious little else. Nobody teaches life skills or how to think for oneself. Even 'Home Economics' has transmuted into 'Food Technology' where instead of learning how to make good, basic and nutritious food kids are taught how to make flow charts and figure out calorie content.

I just watched a choir competition where, out of six finalist school choirs, only one was from a State school. One of the remaining five was one of the last grammar schools and the rest were public schools. It just demonstrates that the state is no longer concerned with a broad education that caters to the many and teases out any skill or talent a child might have in favour of spoon-feeding and exam-passing.

Of course, I may be wrong about this. My mum has told me about learning Kings and Queens by rote and my dad was taught Latin by constant repetitions, so perhaps some of the teaching methods have improved. Perhaps what I'm sad about is the lack of variety. The way that children who aren;t any good at the exam-passing and the academic side of things are made to feel stupid or 'less than' because, maybe, they're musical, good with cars or really care about looking after animals.

Is there any way that we can change this without spending a fortune sending children to independent schools that cost a fortune and act like a pressure cooker (believe me, I went to one and know) but do at least try and provide lots of extra-curricular activity or do we home-school and have our children miss out on the social side of schooling and activities?

Fiance and I have been talking about children and we're both agreed that we hate the schools-system as it stands, but we're also agreed that we have no idea what to do instead.

What do you think? Do you agree with me? How have you arranged your children's education? Have you had any problems? Can you think of a solution? Do you think we have a hope in hell of changing things by starting a campaign?

Just tell me your thoughts generally...

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[Jenny_Jackson]

The longer I observe what's happeneing to State education in this country the more disgusted I am by it. Schools seem to be shutting down all extra-curricular activities in favour of more time spent learning formulae - learning *how* to pass exams and precious little else. Nobody teaches life skills or how to think for oneself. Even 'Home Economics' has transmuted into 'Food Technology' where instead of learning how to make good, basic and nutritious food kids are taught how to make flow charts and figure out calorie content.

I just watched a choir competition where, out of six finalist school choirs, only one was from a State school. One of the remaining five was one of the last grammar schools and the rest were public schools. It just demonstrates that the state is no longer concerned with a broad education that caters to the many and teases out any skill or talent a child might have in favour of spoon-feeding and exam-passing.

Of course, I may be wrong about this. My mum has told me about learning Kings and Queens by rote and my dad was taught Latin by constant repetitions, so perhaps some of the teaching methods have improved. Perhaps what I'm sad about is the lack of variety. The way that children who aren;t any good at the exam-passing and the academic side of things are made to feel stupid or 'less than' because, maybe, they're musical, good with cars or really care about looking after animals.

Is there any way that we can change this without spending a fortune sending children to independent schools that cost a fortune and act like a pressure cooker (believe me, I went to one and know) but do at least try and provide lots of extra-curricular activity or do we home-school and have our children miss out on the social side of schooling and activities?

Fiance and I have been talking about children and we're both agreed that we hate the schools-system as it stands, but we're also agreed that we have no idea what to do instead.

What do you think? Do you agree with me? How have you arranged your children's education? Have you had any problems? Can you think of a solution? Do you think we have a hope in hell of changing things by starting a campaign?

Just tell me your thoughts generally...

x
V

V,
My first 3 years of school was in Belfast. Then I was moved to the U.S. I was totally bored. I was far beyond these kids in everything except Thanksgiving. It was hard to even bother going to school.

This lasted through most of the 5th grade.

What I see now is even worse. Dumb-asses graduating from High School who can't read (?) That's a bloody crime.

 

[vampiredust]

GCSE and A-Level results have been improving year on year but what's disappointing is that the basics (subjects like English and maths) haven't improved that much

According to the figures for 2006, " The proportion of English entries awarded grade C or above was up 0.7 to 61.6%. In maths the rise was 0.9, to 54.3%."

(I'm quoting from a BBC story here)

There are significant numbers of youngsters leaving school without qualifications.

This is tragic

We need to focus not just on the three R's but on strengthening the social foundations

 

[jomar]

In the US some public school districts have magnet schools, where special elementary school (kindergarten through fifth or sixth grade) programs are emphasized - art, science, music. Middle schools (5 or 6th through 8th grade) and high schools (9th through 12th grade) have academies for the highly gifted and talented, and advanced classes for others.

Around here, if you don't want to go to a private school, the best bet is to live near a schools with strong reputations so your kids will go there. Though none are immune from "teaching to the test" that goes on these days.

 

[CeriseNoire]

V,
My first 3 years of school was in Belfast. Then I was moved to the U.S. I was totally bored. I was far beyond these kids in everything except Thanksgiving. It was hard to even bother going to school.

This lasted through most of the 5th grade.

What I see now is even worse. Dumb-asses graduating from High School who can't read (?) That's a bloody crime.

Having done my schooling in Europe up to 9th grade. High school here in the States was a total waste of time.

As for high school graduation becoming meaningless,that's because we've gone from the extreme of labeling all kids who don't fit in as stupid, to denying that there are various levels of academic aptitudes.

As a 7th grade English teacher, I'm often handed kids who read at a 3rd grade level and am expected to teach them how to analyze literature. And shame and doom for me should any of them fail.

Personally, I think that if i ever have kids, I'll have to homeschool them up to 5th grade or so.

ETA: As for 'teaching to the test', believe me, it's not the teachers' preferred choice

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Around here, if you don't want to go to a private school, the best bet is to live near a schools with strong reputations so your kids will go there. Though none are immune from "teaching to the test" that goes on these days.

That doesn't work here worth a shit. All the best public schools are in the high-priced west hills. So you spend the $500,000-$1,000,000 for a house to live there, then find your kid being bussed to a school in the ghetto so the "underprivaliged" can have "parity."

 

[jomar]

As for 'teaching to the test', believe me, it's not the teachers' preferred choice

I know. It creates lots of pressure, stress and anxiety for teachers. It does seem to help the pharmaceutical industry though.

 

[CeriseNoire]

I know. It creates lots of pressure, stress and anxiety for teachers. It does seem to help the pharmaceutical industry though.

That and the local liquor stores.

 

[jomar]

That doesn't work here worth a shit. All the best public schools are in the high-priced west hills. So you spend the $500,000-$1,000,000 for a house to live there, then find your kid being bussed to a school in the ghetto so the "underprivaliged" can have "parity."

That's too bad, Jenny. Lot of diversity where I live so you don't have to be wealthy to get a decent education.

 

[jomar]

That and the local liquor stores.

True.

 

[Vermilion]

well we have the post-code lottery round here that applies to both education and health care. If you live in the right one you get good drugs for cancer and your kids get a pretty good education. Live in the wrong one and you get the cheapest drugs available and your kids suffer the fallout from disillusioned teachers and an overload of 'trouble' students.

One thing I really love is a teacher friend of ours who says their shcool just bought ten tonnes of super-expensive staplers because if they don't spend to the limit of their budget their budget gets cut. No rollover, just a budget cut, so they waste the money instead.

It's absurd.

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[oggbashan]

Where I live we still have grammar schools, frequently bashed by the government, but still surviving.

Two of our local High Schools are very popular with parents because of their achievements.

All the local schools, primary and secondary, have significant extra-curricular activities but the activities are hampered by the real threat of compensation culture. If a child is hurt or upset, some parents want to sue just for the heck of it. That deters volunteers from helping with activities (as do the hoops volunteers have to jump through to prove they are not paedophiles).

Our local primary schools compete with each other to offer the best chances to our local children. They achieve but parental attitude to education makes the difference. Supportive parents have children who realise their potential. Parents who can't be bothered and who use the television, DVD player and computer games as ways NOT to talk to their children aren't going to produce grammar school kids, nor upper streams in the High Schools.

My nearest Junior School is proud of the fact that over the past thirty years only the children of one family left that school at the age of 11 unable to read. They continued to work with the High School for those kids from 11 to 16 and the family's children could read by 16. The mother has also learned to read. Only the father still cannot ( and doesn't want to learn).

Our local education system isn't perfect. We have failing schools nearby that some of our children have to go to but the community support their schools as best they can. Government action has usually been counter-productive and sometimes destructive.

Og

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Laughing my ass off. Someone noticed that the schools are turning out dumb-asses right and left. Someone at the school board came up with an absolultly brilliant idea: Grade the teachers as well as the kids. That program lasted less than a month

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I was just htinking about thi the other night on my drive home.

When I was in school (fifteen years ago or so) they were trying to faze out all of the shop programs. Wood shop, autoshop, and metal shop. They were talking students out of classes saying "Not enough are signing up for it," when the truth of the matter is, if you spoke to the students, enough of us were trying to sign up for it and all of us were fed the same lie.

Why did they do this? To push college prep courses. They wanted EVERYONE to go to college so that they would look like a good school to send your children if you wanted to go to college. Forget the fact that college isn't for everyone, and that most students would be better off learning a specific trade so that they can actually find a job that they would like and make some money doing something with their lives instead of living in debt to creditors because they went to a college that they couldn't afford in the first place.

All school systems are messed up. If not by teaching the right htings the wrong way, than by teahcing the wrong things to the wrong people, or the wrong things the wrong way, or not teaching at all. Every system has it's problems, and that's a problem that I doubt will ever really be fixed.

 

[Vermilion]

I was just htinking about thi the other night on my drive home.

When I was in school (fifteen years ago or so) they were trying to faze out all of the shop programs. Wood shop, autoshop, and metal shop. They were talking students out of classes saying "Not enough are signing up for it," when the truth of the matter is, if you spoke to the students, enough of us were trying to sign up for it and all of us were fed the same lie.

Why did they do this? To push college prep courses. They wanted EVERYONE to go to college so that they would look like a good school to send your children if you wanted to go to college. Forget the fact that college isn't for everyone, and that most students would be better off learning a specific trade so that they can actually find a job that they would like and make some money doing something with their lives instead of living in debt to creditors because they went to a college that they couldn't afford in the first place.

All school systems are messed up. If not by teaching the right htings the wrong way, than by teahcing the wrong things to the wrong people, or the wrong things the wrong way, or not teaching at all. Every system has it's problems, and that's a problem that I doubt will ever really be fixed.

That's exactly the sort of thing that I meant and I just find it so sad.

 

[gauchecritic]

Is there any way that we can change this without spending a fortune sending children to independent schools that cost a fortune and act like a pressure cooker (believe me, I went to one and know) but do at least try and provide lots of extra-curricular activity or do we home-school and have our children miss out on the social side of schooling and activities?

x
V

Join the school board so that you have direct influence either as a parent/governor or join the local leading political party and be appointed.
Join the parent teacher association, volunteer lots and lots.
Probably the easier way is: when your child is very young read books. You don't even have to read them to the children just let them see you reading rather than sat watching tv. Take an interest in everything in the world and spend plenty of time discussing things of interest both with them and in front of them. Be attentive. Where possible have both parents not having to work until the kid takes their first steps or their first birthday.
Don't row. Don't moan about things that you are unable or unwilling to change. Behave as you would wish your child to behave.
Teach them things. Reading, writing, elocution. Let them play. Allow them to learn some of the hard things in life, like being hit by other kids for childish reasons, like skinning their knees by coming down the slide the wrong way.
Let them eat dirt. Let them be giddy. Let them be exhausted. Let them be dirty until they must be hygenic.

Other than that become a politician and increase taxation and pay for there to be fewer kids in each class.

 

[Misty_Morning]

V,
My first 3 years of school was in Belfast. Then I was moved to the U.S. I was totally bored. I was far beyond these kids in everything except Thanksgiving. It was hard to even bother going to school.

This lasted through most of the 5th grade.

What I see now is even worse. Dumb-asses graduating from High School who can't read (?) That's a bloody crime.

I experienced something similar in the US moving from one geographical location to another.

My first 6 years of school I was educated in Massachussetts then I moved with my family to Mississippi. I was considered average in MA and extremely accelerated in MS. Thing is, that gave me the self confidence to maintain my accelerated level throughout the rest of my life.

What's odd is that one of my former sister-in-laws graduated from the same high school as me. I was college prepp and clepped out of my first year of college. She on the other hand graduated from high school unable to read. When we were both in our 20's I bought her "Hooked on phonics" because I couldn't stand to see her struggle and the pain she endured. She taught herself how to read...something that the school system didn't have time to do.

Very sad indeed.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Government schools are hopeless disasters in both the U.S. and Britain. At best they are relentlessly mediocre and at worst they destroy children. One anecdotal piece of evidence - in the national spelling competitions in the U.S., finalists include a increasingly large proportion of home schooled children.

Essentially, these institutons have become places run for the benefit of the unionized and politically well-connected adult staffs, not the children. Here is a longish article that desribes the pathologies of the government schools in Britain, after a description of the equally dysfuntional law enforcement establishment:

How Not to Do It by Theodore Dalrymple
City Journal, Winter 2007
http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_1_oh_to_be.html

I highly recommend it (and other works by this author), and highly recommend that you do not put your children's futures at the mercy of this institution.




PS. For a deeper understanding of some of the social pathologies that have brought this about I highly recommend an article reviewing one of Dalrymple's books, "Rousseau's Children," by Roger Donway. The book is "Life at the Bottom: The Worldview that Makes the Underclass."

 

[Misty_Morning]

Government schools are hopeless disasters in both the U.S. and Britain. At best they are relentlessly mediocre and at worst they destroy children. One anecdotal piece of evidence - in the national spelling competitions in the U.S., finalists include a increasingly large proportion of home schooled children.

My god daughter's father currently spends more than $10,000 a year on private schooling for her in a major southern US city, she's in the first grade. When she was in pre-school he was paying more than $7000 a year for a 4 year old.

This is very scary...

 

[Vermilion]

My god daughter's father currently spends more than $10,000 a year on private schooling for her in a major southern US city, she's in the first grade. When she was in pre-school he was paying more than $7000 a year for a 4 year old.

This is very scary...

Yup. Same numbers but in pounds sterling over here.
So a 10 year old kid could cost you $20k per annum.
More than 1 kid and you're paying an annual income to school them.
Luckily fiance and I have most subjects covered between us. I can help with art, English, History, Cooking and sewing. He can do Maths, Science, Geography, Woodwork/mechanics and languages.
We may do additional tutoring at home rather than homeschooling, but we're prepared to have to do quite a bit of work ourselves.
x
V

 

[matriarch]

Government schools are hopeless disasters in both the U.S. and Britain. At best they are relentlessly mediocre and at worst they destroy children. One anecdotal piece of evidence - in the national spelling competitions in the U.S., finalists include a increasingly large proportion of home schooled children.

Essentially, these institutons have become places run for the benefit of the unionized and politically well-connected adult staffs, not the children. Here is a longish article that desribes the pathologies of the government schools in Britain, after a description of the equally dysfuntional law enforcement establishment:

How Not to Do It by Theodore Dalrymple
City Journal, Winter 2007
http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_1_oh_to_be.html

I highly recommend it (and other works by this author), and highly recommend that you do not put your children's futures at the mercy of this institution.




PS. For a deeper understanding of some of the social pathologies that have brought this about I highly recommend an article reviewing one of Dalrymple's books, "Rousseau's Children," by Roger Donway. The book is "Life at the Bottom: The Worldview that Makes the Underclass."

As someone who has knowledge of the UK school system from all three angles....as a mother of two, as a school worker in the classroom, and as an administrator within the local education department, I find your comment that UK schools are "at best ... are relentlessly mediocre and at worst they destroy children." both insulting and breathtaking in its generalisation.

 

[scheherazade_79]

In Defence of State Schools

I attended one, got double the UCAS points that an average private school pupil gets and got offered a place at Cambridge to read English. I also received free music lessons as part of my schooling.

I got to where I'm at as the result of some fucking good teachers, who believed that a decent education shouldn't be the reserve of the wealthy.

For the same reason, I could never teach at a fee-paying school.

Yes, there are some severe problems within the state education system - but these have been created by the politicians. As soon as they stop using schools as a way of proving their own success as a government, things should improve. Only then will there be less emphasis on assessment and number-crunching, which will free up teachers to actually do some teaching, instead of fulfiling quotas drawn up by people who know nothing about the school system, other than what they learned as pupils.

What you have to bear in mind is that not all state school teachers sing from the government hymnsheet.

 

[oggbashan]

I agree with Mat and Zade.

Locally our schools do better than most because they have significant support from the community. Parents, businesses, politicians and others work together to help the schools' staff.

We have one failing school. It has suffered from changed direction several times in recent years and now has a poor reputation that is self-fulfilling. Our local High School was like that 20 years ago. Now it is a Sports College and is sought after, with 2.2 applicants for each place.

We hope that the failing school will be turned around. One local primary was under threat of closure in 2005. That has been saved and seems safe for the next few years.

The community support makes a difference to the staff and to the pupils. If they know that a helping hand exists, it adds to their self-esteem.

Og

 

[wehstar]

The longer I observe what's happeneing to State education in this country the more disgusted I am by it. Schools seem to be shutting down all extra-curricular activities in favour of more time spent learning formulae - learning *how* to pass exams and precious little else. Nobody teaches life skills or how to think for oneself. Even 'Home Economics' has transmuted into 'Food Technology' where instead of learning how to make good, basic and nutritious food kids are taught how to make flow charts and figure out calorie content.

I just watched a choir competition where, out of six finalist school choirs, only one was from a State school. One of the remaining five was one of the last grammar schools and the rest were public schools. It just demonstrates that the state is no longer concerned with a broad education that caters to the many and teases out any skill or talent a child might have in favour of spoon-feeding and exam-passing.

Of course, I may be wrong about this. My mum has told me about learning Kings and Queens by rote and my dad was taught Latin by constant repetitions, so perhaps some of the teaching methods have improved. Perhaps what I'm sad about is the lack of variety. The way that children who aren;t any good at the exam-passing and the academic side of things are made to feel stupid or 'less than' because, maybe, they're musical, good with cars or really care about looking after animals.

Is there any way that we can change this without spending a fortune sending children to independent schools that cost a fortune and act like a pressure cooker (believe me, I went to one and know) but do at least try and provide lots of extra-curricular activity or do we home-school and have our children miss out on the social side of schooling and activities?

Fiance and I have been talking about children and we're both agreed that we hate the schools-system as it stands, but we're also agreed that we have no idea what to do instead.

What do you think? Do you agree with me? How have you arranged your children's education? Have you had any problems? Can you think of a solution? Do you think we have a hope in hell of changing things by starting a campaign?

Just tell me your thoughts generally...

x
V

I agree - the academic focus has gone far too far. Now I took my GCSE's ten years ago, and I imagine it has only got worse since then. There was absolutely no focus and no time for anything except for academic stuff. Even then it wasn't about knowledge, but getting you to be able to pass an exam.

For example, in biology you were guaranteed to get a question on photosynthesis. Probably I'll get this wrong now, but the basic mechanism was:-

If you get a question with the word photosynthesis in, write anything so long as it has the key words light, water, carbon dioxide, oxygen and energy in. The examiner won't read the words inbetween as they are overworked.

Even worse as you mentioned was woodwork and cookery. Instead of learning how to cook and make / fix things, we spent all the time working with budgets and calculating materials etc.

What scares me is that if you don't have worthwhile parents - and a lot of kids don't, school just isn't geared up to help you get through life. And surely that's what school is about, isn't it?

I got a lot better in education the further up it went - I refused to learn parrot fashion, and didn't need to as the level of expertise required improved.

On a lighter note, some of my friends are primary school teachers. They claim that without doubt the standard of teaching, at least of those in the 5-11 yrs bracket is incomparably better than it was when we were at school. What they base that opinion on I don't know, but I think its along the lines of they have looked at teaching methods and worked out what does and doesn't work for different kinds of kids.

 

[rgraham666]

Tanstaafl.

In a society where the bottom line is the most important thing, and we're not will to pay for other people's children to have a decent education (meaning higher taxes), what else can we expect but a damaged education system?