UK bill for mandatory subscription!

[butters]

the fucking bastards have kept this awfully quiet
high youth unemployment - due to politicians and investment bankers - will always see calls for national service. what we need are more jobs, not an 'opportunity' for the youth to be sucked up as cannon fodder.

UK Government: Stop the National Service Bill 2013-14
By Debbie Sayers
Truro



Currently there is a Private members Bill presented by Mr Philip Hollobone MP that is passing to its second reading in the house of commons that asks, the government to pass a law to provide a system of national service for young persons.

We the undersigned do not want our children and grandchildren to be forced to undertake mandatory conscription or service in to any system that requires them by law to submit to training or residential activity, that is not optional and carries a criminal penalty for non compliance. We do not support any attempts to force young people between the ages of 18-26 in to any training that carries the option of military style training or conscription in to the military for any reason that is not voluntary.

It is unacceptable to force any person to engage in training that has mandatory residential elements, military training and or actual service in the military without the ability to refuse, without placing themselves in a position of having to break the law and gaining a criminal record. We do not want our children and grandchildren to fight and die in wars, or in training that they or we have no control over.

We ask that the Private Members Bill, The National Service Bill 2013-14 Presented by Mr Philip Hollobone be rejected in its entirety and that our government reassure us that non voluntary service and any residential or military style training, or service will always be a freedom of choice and not a system of conscription imposed upon UK citizens, especially young people, who should be able to choose their own futures.

 

[Sean]

Private members bills are bollocks. They are the equivalent of shouting "look at me!" for the Westminster village.

 

[warrior queen]

Personally, I want our gov't to bring it back.... for both male and female young people.
If you haven't secured a job and aren't furthering your education after you leave high school, National service should be mandatory.
It would put a halt on the hordes of unemployed layabouts I see downtown every time I go there. Useless lumps who thinks they're entitled to the same respect that hard-working folk are, and end up doing fuck-all with their lives.

 

[butters]

Private members bills are bollocks. They are the equivalent of shouting "look at me!" for the Westminster village.

how does it get as far as a second reading? what criteria does it have to reach for it to progress?

 

[Sean]

how does it get as far as a second reading? what criteria does it have to reach for it to progress?

There's no debate or vote after the first reading.

 

[Sean]

http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/passage-bill/commons/coms-commons-first-reading/

 

[butters]

There's no debate or vote after the first reading.

soooo, is a second reading automatic then? does it depend on what other stuff they have filling up the agenda? and what happens after the second reading? yeah, i suppose i could go look it all up but if you know it'd save me some effort. ty

 

[butters]

http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/passage-bill/commons/coms-commons-first-reading/

cheers

 

[Wyldfire]

soooo, is a second reading automatic then? does it depend on what other stuff they have filling up the agenda? and what happens after the second reading? yeah, i suppose i could go look it all up but if you know it'd save me some effort. ty

This is the reason National service ought to be required for citizenship. Too lazy to do the leg work........

 

[neci]

i would raise holy hell, if someone tried to pull that shit here. if you are going to force youth into service, there should be a social service option where people not wanting to go into the military can stay at home and do good in their communities. see austria. personally, i only think that card should be pulled in a world war.

 

[Sean]

soooo, is a second reading automatic then? does it depend on what other stuff they have filling up the agenda? and what happens after the second reading? yeah, i suppose i could go look it all up but if you know it'd save me some effort. ty

It depends on the time and how they're introduced, ballot, ten minute rule, etc. Ballot bills have a better chance of going further.

 

[butters]

This is the reason National service ought to be required for citizenship. Too lazy to do the leg work........

look, we're speaking about UK events. if sean has the information to hand it simply saves me time - it's called 'making use of resources'.

IF a country's populace decides, as a majority, that national service is the way forward for their country then fair enough. what i don't want to see is the unemployment problems 'solved' NOT by creating a healthy economy with an active job market but by the hoovering up of disenfranchised youth as disposable 'bodies' to be used in whatever military action future governments decide to get involved in.

 

[butters]

i would raise holy hell, if someone tried to pull that shit here. if you are going to force youth into service, there should be a social service option where people not wanting to go into the military can stay at home and do good in their communities. see austria. personally, i only think that card should be pulled in a world war.

this.

 

[warrior queen]

look, we're speaking about UK events. if sean has the information to hand it simply saves me time - it's called 'making use of resources'.

IF a country's populace decides, as a majority, that national service is the way forward for their country then fair enough. what i don't want to see is the unemployment problems 'solved' NOT by creating a healthy economy with an active job market but by the hoovering up of disenfranchised youth as disposable 'bodies' to be used in whatever military action future governments decide to get involved in.

In a perfect world, an active job market would solve some of the problems of disenfranchised youth.
Trouble is there's almost no place in the world that doesn't have some kind of unemployment issue.
I firmly believe that were a compulsory National Service on the table, a heck of a lot more people would be actively working or furthering their education to better their prospects (especially in places like Aus, where it's entirely too easy to do neither and subsist on the dole.)

 

[trysail]

Environmental extremism based on shonky science has consequences:

http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2013/9/6/where-we-went-wrong.html


Madness. Simple madness.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ch-coal-wood-chips--wont-help-planet-jot.html



_______________

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/en...ayback-time-for-our-insane-energy-policy.html
It’s payback time for our insane energy policy
An obsession with CO2 has left us dangerously short of power as coal-powered stations are forced to close
by Christopher Booker

As the snow of the coldest March since 1963 continues to fall, we learn that we have barely 48 hours’ worth of stored gas left to keep us warm, and that the head of our second-largest electricity company, SSE, has warned that our generating capacity has fallen so low that we can expect power cuts to begin at any time. It seems the perfect storm is upon us.

The grotesque mishandling of Britain’s energy policy by the politicians of all parties, as they chase their childish chimeras of CO2-induced global warming and windmills, has been arguably the greatest act of political irresponsibility in our history.

Three more events last week brought home again just what a mad bubble of make-believe these people are living in. Under the EU’s Large Combustion Plants Directive, we lost two more major coal-fired power stations, Didcot A and Cockenzie, capable of contributing no less than a tenth to our average electricity demands. We saw a French state-owned company, EDF, being given planning permission to spend £14 billion on two new nuclear reactors in Somerset, but which it says it will only build, for completion in 10 years’ time, if it is guaranteed a subsidy that will double the price of its electricity. Then, hidden in the small print of the Budget, were new figures for the fast-escalating tax the Government introduces next week on every ton of CO2 emitted by fossil-fuel-powered stations, which will soon be adding billions of pounds more to our electricity bills every year.

Within seven years this new tax will rise to £30 a ton, and by 2030 to £70 a ton, making it wholly uneconomical to generate any more electricity from the coal and gas-fired power stations that last week were still supplying two thirds of our electricity. Put all this together and we see more starkly than ever the game the Government is playing. It knows that no company would build wind farms unless it is given subsidies that, in effect, nearly double or treble the price of its electricity. The Government will only get CO2-free nuclear power if it promises it an equal subsidy. And now the Coalition is also hell-bent on driving our much cheaper and more reliable coal and gas-fired plants out of business, by imposing a carbon tax that will not only eventually double the cost of their electricity, but also make it impossible for them to survive. So mad is this policy of “double-up all round” that it is driving even the largest and most efficient power station in the country, Drax, capable of supplying seven per cent of all the power we use, to switch from burning coal to wood chips, imported 3,000 miles across the Atlantic from the US. And how has the Government forced Drax to do this? By giving it a subsidy on wood chips that doubles the value of its electricity, while putting an increasingly prohibitive tax on coal.

This is all insane in so many ways that one scarcely knows where to begin, except to point out that, even if our rulers somehow managed to subsidise firms into spending £100 billion on all those wind farms they dream of, they will still need enough new gas-fired power stations to provide back-up for all the times when the wind isn’t blowing, at the very time when the carbon tax will soon make it uneconomical for anyone to build them...

So we are doomed to see Britain’s lights going out, all because the feather-headed lunatics in charge of our energy policy still believe that they’ve got to do something to save the planet from that CO2-induced global warming which this weekend has been covering much of the country up to a foot deep in snow. Meanwhile, the Indians are planning to build 455 new coal-fired power stations which will add more CO2 to the atmosphere of the planet every week than Britain emits in a year.

Thank you, David Cameron, leader of “the greenest government ever”. Thank you, Ed Miliband, father of the Climate Change Act, the most expensive suicide note in history. Between you, you seem determined to switch off our lights, lock the door and throw away the key. We owe you more than we can say.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/en...ayback-time-for-our-insane-energy-policy.html

 

[Wyldfire]

look, we're speaking about UK events. if sean has the information to hand it simply saves me time - it's called 'making use of resources'.

IF a country's populace decides, as a majority, that national service is the way forward for their country then fair enough. what i don't want to see is the unemployment problems 'solved' NOT by creating a healthy economy with an active job market but by the hoovering up of disenfranchised youth as disposable 'bodies' to be used in whatever military action future governments decide to get involved in.

It would give them a little incentive to not be so disenfranchised now wouldn't it? And what do they have to be disenfranchised about anyway? Did their mommies not give them enough titsucking as babies? Or is it the same bullshit we have here in the states believing McDonalds burger flippers deserve $30,000 a year?

 

[Wyldfire]

i would raise holy hell, if someone tried to pull that shit here. if you are going to force youth into service, there should be a social service option where people not wanting to go into the military can stay at home and do good in their communities. see austria. personally, i only think that card should be pulled in a world war.

I agree 100% on the social service aspect! But they should be required to serve their country in one way or another.

 

[colddiesel]

National Service with daily thrashings should be compulsory for people who can't tell the difference between Conscription and Subscription.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Or is it the same bullshit we have here in the states believing McDonalds burger flippers deserve $30,000 a year?

Don't forget the full benefits package with dental too......!!! It's a right

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

the fucking bastards have kept this awfully quiet
high youth unemployment - due to politicians and investment bankers - will always see calls for national service. what we need are more jobs, not an 'opportunity' for the youth to be sucked up as cannon fodder.

Mandatory subscription? surely you mean conscription? mate.

Mandatory subscription means having to pay for the so right on fucking BBC through the tv licensing system. The broadcasting wing of the Labour party and tv version of the Guardian would struggle if it had to compete on a level playing field with Sky and ITV.

 

[planetqueen]

Mandatory subscription? surely you mean conscription? mate.

Mandatory subscription means having to pay for the so right on fucking BBC through the tv licensing system. The broadcasting wing of the Labour party and tv version of the Guardian would struggle if it had to compete on a level playing field with Sky and ITV.

Possibly - but it still doesn't mean it shouldn't be so (but I am a radio 4 listener and guardian reader)

Butters - Right now, I think a bit of army discipline might be good for my son. As long as he didn't have to go to war, I think I might support it.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

In a perfect world, an active job market would solve some of the problems of disenfranchised youth.
Trouble is there's almost no place in the world that doesn't have some kind of unemployment issue.
I firmly believe that were a compulsory National Service on the table, a heck of a lot more people would be actively working or furthering their education to better their prospects (especially in places like Aus, where it's entirely too easy to do neither and subsist on the dole.)

East Germany had full employment.

Where are they now?

Just another government interference, positive as it is intended, that has repercussions, for Capital must be taken from the private sector to give to the public sector to spend on make-work and usually pretty useless training. The reason you have high unemployment is that mindset that demands government to more about it when what is actually required is that government do less about it and begin admitting to and dismantling many of its former mistakes instead of allowing them to continue with continual mending and meddling.

 

[butters]

of course i meant conscription, silly people - there was a lot going on and i hit send before checking. so fucking shoot me ANYONE who knows me knows i can spell, i'm literate, and capable of making a mistake.

 

[butters]

Possibly - but it still doesn't mean it shouldn't be so (but I am a radio 4 listener and guardian reader)

Butters - Right now, I think a bit of army discipline might be good for my son. As long as he didn't have to go to war, I think I might support it.

and that pov would receive a lot of support in the UK, i'm thinking. but it's not what's being put forward.

 

[planetqueen]

and that pov would receive a lot of support in the UK, i'm thinking. but it's not what's being put forward.

True - but nobody wants kids going to war - so it wouldn't get through. We are just a bit too liberal like that generally - which I love about us.