Trump fucks up again. Ukraine negotiation goes sideways

[ChloeTzang]

Vladimir Putin has vowed to "finish off" Ukraine

Putin made the remarks while aboard a new nuclear submarine during a visit to an Arctic naval base on Thursday. He claimed Russian forces have the "strategic initiative" along the Ukrainian front line and had reason to believe his army would "finish them off". He also reaffirmed his claim that Volodymyr Zelenskyy, whose term expired last year, lacks the legitimacy to sign a peace deal. Any agreement that is signed with the current Ukrainian government could be challenged by its successors, he said, adding that new elections could be held under external governance. "Not long ago I said we'd grind [Ukraine] down - now it looks like we'll finish them off," Putin told submariners.

Looks like Trump was wrong when he said he sincerely believed Putin desires peace. Although thinking about it, Putin DOES desire peace - but a peace where Ukraine is eradicated and resettled with Russians. and then he can move on to Transnistria, Moldova and the Baltic States.....so much for bogus ceasefire negotiations - Trump's been and is being played for a fool - OR he's in Putin's pockets.

Manwhile.....Kyiv officials trash Putin’s ‘external governance’ plan for Ukraine​

Ukrainian presidential adviser tells Russian ruler to “pop some pills.” Andriy Kovalenko, head of the Ukrainian government’s center for countering disinformation, criticized the plan as part of Moscow’s efforts to stall peace negotiations, as Russia has no actual intention of permanently ending its full-scale invasion. “Putin is doing everything he can to delay and derail any progress toward peace because he has no interest in ending the war. That’s why he keeps making these wild demands and proposals,” Kovalenko said on Telegram. “The way to limit his options is through tougher economic sanctions on Russia and by strengthening Ukraine. I hope it becomes clear by Easter if Russia hasn’t stopped the fighting by then,” he added.

Ukrainian law does not permit elections under martial law, which was declared on Feb. 24, 2022 when Russia launched its all-out war. Dmytro Lytvyn, adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, recommended that the Russian leader gets real. “If Putin is once again struggling to understand who he needs to engage with to seriously move toward ending this war, maybe he should just pop some pills to kickstart his brain activity — assuming such pills still have any effect on him,” Lytvyn wrote in a post on X.

Putin’s comments came shortly after U.S. President Donald Trump himself admitted that Russia “could be dragging their feet” over a full truce with Ukraine. Trump’s team has been trying to hash out the terms of a ceasefire for weeks now, but Putin is refusing to back down on his maximalist ambitions for Ukraine.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/world-news/putin-finish-off-ukraine-mocks-size-british-army/

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukr...vladimir-putin-over-external-governance-plan/

 

[ChloeTzang]

THis article's behind a paywall but if Trump is talking about assisting Putin he's gone right off the reservation and needs to be impeached

 

[KimAwakened]

Vlad snaps his fingers.

President Putinspuppy snaps to attention...

... "Yes, boss..?"

 

[ChloeTzang]

Doesn't matter where you are politically, to even say this is totally delusional and out of touch with reality. There is no Black Sea deal. There never was. There is no energy ceasefire. Russia broke it on Day One. Between Rubio, Vance and Trump, they can't even keep their lies straight.

"We feel very good where things are. I think we have made an incredible amount of progress. Biden caused so much death and destruction, but thanks to Trump's leadership we finally have the opportunity for a peaceful settlement," JD Vance on the ongoing peace talks. Loony.

We have a VP who cannot distinguish reality from fantasy and THAT is a major security threat.

Someone please deport this illegal from Greenland.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Just to emphasize that Vance is talking shit....he's been infected by Tucker Carlson and has a serious woody for Putin

 

[PersonalFavors]

Bottom line is obiden got rich looking the other way as Russia invaded.
Zelinsky fucked up. What a waste of a beautiful country.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Bottom line is obiden got rich looking the other way as Russia invaded.

Really? How? Here's a link to his tax returns, please show where he got rich.
https://www.taxnotes.com/presidential-tax-returns

Zelinsky fucked up.

How? What did Zelenskyy do, besides being the President at the time Putin invaded? Offering up a defence of your country is "fucked up"?

(oh and learn how to spell his name)

What a waste of a beautiful country.

Have you no pride in your assistance on ruining Ukraine.?

 

[Politruk]

obiden

You are an idiot.

got rich looking the other way as Russia invaded.

Doubly.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Oh yeah, here we go....first Poland, now the Nordic Bomb....now I have to go track down the source.....yep, here we go. Reuters.

The article actually doesn't say they'll develop one. "I would start from the premise that we in Finland must have a real nuclear deterrent....," Stubb told reporters. But it's in the conext of NATO. Still, that the President of Finland is even saying this.....

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...lexander-stubb-president-nato-era-2024-03-01/

 

[eric_erosfan]

Oh yeah, here we go....first Poland, now the Nordic Bomb....now I have to go track down the source.....yep, here we go. Reuters.

The article actually doesn't say they'll develop one. "I would start from the premise that we in Finland must have a real nuclear deterrent....," Stubb told reporters. But it's in the conext of NATO. Still, that the President of Finland is even saying this.....

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...lexander-stubb-president-nato-era-2024-03-01/

View attachment 2521161 View attachment 2521162

Nothing says peace and safety like nuclear proliferation.

 

[PersonalFavors]

Have you no pride in your assistance on ruining Ukraine.?

What?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

What?

Really? How? Here's a link to his tax returns, please show where he got rich.
https://www.taxnotes.com/presidential-tax-returns

How? What did Zelenskyy do, besides being the President at the time Putin invaded? Offering up a defence of your country is "fucked up"?

(oh and learn how to spell his name)

Have you no pride in your assistance on ruining Ukraine.?

A person is either in support of Ukraine, or Russia, there is no other "side". You're bullshit about Biden puts you square in the Russian propaganda camp....hope you enjoy viewing the carnage you're supporting.

 

[PersonalFavors]

A person is either in support of Ukraine, or Russia, there is no other "side". You're bullshit about Biden puts you square in the Russian propaganda camp....hope you enjoy viewing the carnage you're supporting.

If you say I support it I do. However, I’ve never been in that fight. I believe oBiden could have prevented the war. He turned a blind eye to it. Had the fbi cover up the laptop with evidence his family gained great wealth from Ukraine. Approved the Russian income stream to fund this nonsense. Then the house and senate sent billions to fund the war which was mostly plundered by zelinsky. We never should have sent a dime.
Now I’m hopeful the war remains contained in Ukraine and eventually Putin runs out of the generation of his population he is sending to the war. The death Trump tried to stop after coming into office is sad. But it is not our fight. EU wants it to be. But they have depleted the relevance of NATO same as the fate of the UN.
The carnage is on oBiden. And could prove costly for all the Baltic states as well. I hated to see yesterday that Bosnian visiting Putin. No comment from EU or NATO. That could bring the battle and communism right into their region not just on the border.
How long until you Canadians go get in the fight?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

If you say I support it I do.

No you don't. Reading all the bullshit below, it just points to your political bias against Democrats. Putin started this, Obama failed to act, and you blame Biden......too fucking funny. You're a dipshit of the worst degree. Your cowardice and ignorance would make the greatest generation spin in their grave. Many gave everything, just so assholes like you wouldn't speak German or Japaneses.

However, I’ve never been in that fight. I believe oBiden could have prevented the war. He turned a blind eye to it. Had the fbi cover up the laptop with evidence his family gained great wealth from Ukraine. Approved the Russian income stream to fund this nonsense. Then the house and senate sent billions to fund the war which was mostly plundered by zelinsky. We never should have sent a dime.
Now I’m hopeful the war remains contained in Ukraine and eventually Putin runs out of the generation of his population he is sending to the war. The death Trump tried to stop after coming into office is sad. But it is not our fight. EU wants it to be. But they have depleted the relevance of NATO same as the fate of the UN.
The carnage is on oBiden. And could prove costly for all the Baltic states as well. I hated to see yesterday that Bosnian visiting Putin. No comment from EU or NATO. That could bring the battle and communism right into their region not just on the border.

How long until you Canadians go get in the fight?

If it gets to that point we would, but that's WW3 and we may have to fight the foe below first. Given the cowardice I see from people like you, Ish, ican't and the rest, it wouldn't take too long either, then we could go to Ukraine.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Ukraine Peace Talks – Trump Blew a Winning Hand​

In Moscow I think there is disbelief, joy even, at how amateurish the US negotiation is.
by Timothy Ash | Mar. 27, 2025, 2:02 pm

Two months into the Trump presidency and the question is: “Where exactly are we in terms of peace talks over the war in Ukraine, which Trump said he could end within 24 hours of taking office?” To recap here, I thought that prospects for peace after the US election were good, whoever won the US election. While both Russia and Ukraine could fight a long war, both were being worn down by war, and the long war also brought risks to both. Subsequently, we have now had several rounds of negotiations in Riyadh, several trips by the Trump team to Moscow, the now infamous Oval Office ambush of Zelensky by Vance et al, plus at least one Putin-Trump call.

From all this, it looks like the Trump team are managing expectations away from a big comprehensive ceasefire deal, and then full peace deal, instead focusing on a revamp of the Black Sea deal that Turkey originally put together in mid-2022, but Russia then walked away from in July 2023, and the Macron proposal for an energy infrastructure ceasefire.

What we have seen is the Trump regime surrender all its leverage to Putin even before negotiations began.

These are now seen, perhaps, as compromise building measures to begin to eventually bring the two sides together towards negotiations on a broader ceasefire, then a lasting peace deal. But actually what I think is clear now from the above events is that the two sides are now perhaps even further apart in terms of reaching a lasting peace – even a ceasefire. And I would argue that we are where we are, essentially due to the failures of the Trump team. The latest revelation once again put the security practices of top US security officials into question following the Signal scandal. Just to recap, my assumption had been that Trump held most of the cards as he went into these peace talks. Trump had leverage on both sides – he could, and did, pull military supplies and intelligence from Ukraine, and could have ramped up sanctions on Russia and increased military aid to Ukraine to concentrate Putin’s mind. In reality, what we have seen is the Trump regime surrender all its leverage to Putin even before negotiations began – no NATO for Ukraine, no security guarantees for Ukraine, Russia keeps all the territory it holds and the prospect of easy/early sanctions moderation.

Further than that, the Trump administration has signaled it is desperate to do business with Russia and the Putin regime. Meantime, the quite extraordinary interview by Steve Witkoff, Trump’s Middle East and Putin envoy, given to Tucker Carlson, reveals that the Trump presidency believes most of the Putin narrative that the war is about Crimea and the four occupied oblasts in eastern Ukraine are really Russian, and that referendums held there were somehow representative even though they were held at gunpoint.

Trump wants a deal with Putin at any cost – to Ukraine.

Witkoff revealed a remarkable lack of understanding as to the origins of the current war, but was willing to take the Russian line, hook, line, and sinker. For a supposedly impartial arbiter this was just extraordinary. As if this were not bad enough, Rick Grenell, another Trump adviser, even cast apersions on what Ukraine had conceded as per the Budapest Memorandum of 1994, that the nuclear weapons they, in fact, surrendered, were Russian, not Ukrainian, which is simply not true, as originally they were Soviet. But what this all revealed is that Trump wants a deal with Putin at any cost – to Ukraine. And that actually Trump is unwilling to force any concessions from Russia or actually impose sanctions or any cost on Russia. Trump wants a deal with Putin, and Ukraine and Europe just have to fall into line.

In Moscow I think there is disbelief, joy even, at how amateurish the US negotiation is.

The consequences of the above are that thinking in both Kyiv and Moscow have now fundamentally changed towards peace talks. In Moscow I think there is disbelief, joy even, at how amateurish the US negotiation is. They can see a scenario where they get given massive concessions up front – actually more than they could have ever expected from any peace deal, and where they would have been prepared to accept much less in reality, but that they can get even more, much more than they anticipated by playing hard to get. They now see scope to divide the US from Ukraine and Europe, to secure a scenario where the US pulls all military support from Ukraine and Europe – and this offers the potential for the total collapse of Ukraine and its delivery into the hands of Moscow. They see scope for total victory in Ukraine, so now don’t see the need to compromise but instead reason to hold out, continue the war, and just take, take, take from Trump. They view Trump, and his team, essentially as idiots.

 

[ChloeTzang]

By contrast, the Ukrainians are no fools.

What we are seeing is that both Moscow and Kyiv play the Trump administration for time.

I think it was clear from the Oval Office ambush that Trump and his team are no friends of Ukraine and are more than happy to sell Ukraine down the river. But that meeting and the subsequent suspension of arms supplies and intelligence sharing from the US revealed an obvious vulnerability. Ukraine and Europe still are dependent on some critical military supplies from the US, including long-range air defense systems and missiles and longer-range strike missiles and ordinance. Ukraine needs time to build its own capability and hopes that Europe gets it act together to fill the void in supplies left by the untrustworthy Americans. Ukraine is playing for time. It is playing the peace narrative, trying not to be seen as an impediment to peace talks to the point of risking continued US supplies of those key munitions, and hoping that Russia makes a misstep to somehow damage the Trump-Putin bromance.

Actually, what we are seeing is that both Moscow and Kyiv play the Trump administration for time. But while for Moscow it is because they figure they can get much more by now playing the long negotiation game, for Ukraine they have already concluded that they will get nothing from these negotiations, but by playing for time they might reach some level of military independence from the US that they can eventually tell Trump where to go.

I think Kyiv understands now that Trump will try and impose a peace deal which includes no NATO, no security guarantees, and the forced acceptance of the loss of Crimea and the four regions. Add in there a scenario likely of limitations on its military capability and early elections, which would force the end of martial law, mobilization, and the collapse of its front lines. They recognize that the deal that Trump and Putin are likely concocting is the end of Ukraine as a sovereign state. Obviously, for Zelensky and any Ukrainian leader, that is totally unacceptable. Indeed, a recent opinion poll showed over 80% of Ukrainians now favor fighting on in the war even if US support is pulled – the Oval Office ambush acting to unify the nation around Zelensky. The latter was acknowledged by US NSC head Waltz in his Congressional testimony, noting that Ukrainians would fight to defend their country with their fingernails if need be.

This shows that Ukraine has limits and clear red lines to the kind of deal currently being discussed by Trump and Putin is just not acceptable to Ukraine. No deal will be done on these terms, Ukraine will fight on.
Looking at the recent Black Sea deal, I wonder here if, reading between the lines, the Trump administration now gets the reality that a substantive peace deal is now beyond reach – I would argue largely due to their own incompetence.

Notable here that while the two sides agreed to abide by the latest Black Sea ceasefire deal, Russia added the conditions that sanctions were moderated first on Roscelkhozbank, and other entities facilitating trade in agriculture through the Black Sea.

Trump had the deal of the century, literally in his hand, and he blew it.

The WH statement following the agreement was vague. But obviously any such sanctions moderation would require the agreement also of Europe. Now, either Trump’s team knew that and wanted to shift the blame of any failure of the Black Sea deal onto Europe, or is in Moscow’s camp of wanting to erode the credibility of sanctions more generally and to weaken the Western alliance – what is remaining of it.

In summary to the above, I now think that the prospect for a lasting ceasefire, and peace agreement of any consequence are quite poor/low. Why would Ukraine accept any deal which leaves its sovereignty and security undermined to the point of representing an existential threat or weakness? And why would Moscow now accept anything but total surrender by Ukraine, as expected to be delivered by the Trump administration?

Trump had the deal of the century, literally in his hand, and he blew it. The only thing is the people who will really suffer as a consequence of these failings are Ukrainians. Sad, but I fear true.

In Moscow I think there is disbelief, joy even, at how amateurish the US negotiation is.

The consequences of the above are that thinking in both Kyiv and Moscow have now fundamentally changed towards peace talks. In Moscow I think there is disbelief, joy even, at how amateurish the US negotiation is. They can see a scenario where they get given massive concessions up front – actually more than they could have ever expected from any peace deal, and where they would have been prepared to accept much less in reality, but that they can get even more, much more than they anticipated by playing hard to get. They now see scope to divide the US from Ukraine and Europe, to secure a scenario where the US pulls all military support from Ukraine and Europe – and this offers the potential for the total collapse of Ukraine and its delivery into the hands of Moscow. They see scope for total victory in Ukraine, so now don’t see the need to compromise but instead reason to hold out, continue the war, and just take, take, take from Trump. They view Trump, and his team, essentially as idiots.

By contrast, the Ukrainians are no fools.

What we are seeing is that both Moscow and Kyiv play the Trump administration for time.

I think it was clear from the Oval Office ambush that Trump and his team are no friends of Ukraine and are more than happy to sell Ukraine down the river. But that meeting and the subsequent suspension of arms supplies and intelligence sharing from the US revealed an obvious vulnerability. Ukraine and Europe still are dependent on some critical military supplies from the US, including long-range air defense systems and missiles and longer-range strike missiles and ordinance.

Ukraine needs time to build its own capability and hopes that Europe gets it act together to fill the void in supplies left by the untrustworthy Americans. Ukraine is playing for time. It is playing the peace narrative, trying not to be seen as an impediment to peace talks to the point of risking continued US supplies of those key munitions, and hoping that Russia makes a misstep to somehow damage the Trump-Putin bromance.
Actually, what we are seeing is that both Moscow and Kyiv play the Trump administration for time. But while for Moscow it is because they figure they can get much more by now playing the long negotiation game, for Ukraine they have already concluded that they will get nothing from these negotiations, but by playing for time they might reach some level of military independence from the US that they can eventually tell Trump where to go.

I think Kyiv understands now that Trump will try and impose a peace deal which includes no NATO, no security guarantees, and the forced acceptance of the loss of Crimea and the four regions. Add in there a scenario likely of limitations on its military capability and early elections, which would force the end of martial law, mobilization, and the collapse of its front lines.
They recognize that the deal that Trump and Putin are likely concocting is the end of Ukraine as a sovereign state. Obviously, for Zelensky and any Ukrainian leader, that is totally unacceptable.
Indeed, a recent opinion poll showed over 80% of Ukrainians now favor fighting on in the war even if US support is pulled – the Oval Office ambush acting to unify the nation around Zelensky.
The latter was acknowledged by US NSC head Waltz in his Congressional testimony, noting that Ukrainians would fight to defend their country with their fingernails if need be.
This shows that Ukraine has limits and clear red lines to the kind of deal currently being discussed by Trump and Putin is just not acceptable to Ukraine. No deal will be done on these terms, Ukraine will fight on.
Looking at the recent Black Sea deal, I wonder here if, reading between the lines, the Trump administration now gets the reality that a substantive peace deal is now beyond reach – I would argue largely due to their own incompetence.
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Notable here that while the two sides agreed to abide by the latest Black Sea ceasefire deal, Russia added the conditions that sanctions were moderated first on Roscelkhozbank, and other entities facilitating trade in agriculture through the Black Sea.

Trump had the deal of the century, literally in his hand, and he blew it.

The WH statement following the agreement was vague. But obviously any such sanctions moderation would require the agreement also of Europe. Now, either Trump’s team knew that and wanted to shift the blame of any failure of the Black Sea deal onto Europe, or is in Moscow’s camp of wanting to erode the credibility of sanctions more generally and to weaken the Western alliance – what is remaining of it.

In summary to the above, I now think that the prospect for a lasting ceasefire, and peace agreement of any consequence are quite poor/low. Why would Ukraine accept any deal which leaves its sovereignty and security undermined to the point of representing an existential threat or weakness? And why would Moscow now accept anything but total surrender by Ukraine, as expected to be delivered by the Trump administration?

Trump had the deal of the century, literally in his hand, and he blew it. The only thing is the people who will really suffer as a consequence of these failings are Ukrainians. Sad, but I fear true.

 

[PersonalFavors]

No you don't. Reading all the bullshit below, it just points to your political bias against Democrats. Putin started this, Obama failed to act, and you blame Biden......too fucking funny. You're a dipshit of the worst degree. Your cowardice and ignorance would make the greatest generation spin in their grave. Many gave everything, just so assholes like you wouldn't speak German or Japaneses.



If it gets to that point we would, but that's WW3 and we may have to fight the foe below first. Given the cowardice I see from people like you, Ish, ican't and the rest, it wouldn't take too long either, then we could go to Ukraine.

I think you should go to Ukraine now. Go. Take all your tariff income and whatever you think you will gain by boycott with you! Take obiden and hussein with you too. Probably be helpful to patch up whatever is wrong between the mookie and hussein too. I bet that big ol wookie could do some damage in combat!
I am sorry to say I do believe when obiden said "don't" he did start WW3.
Zelensky refusing assistance and the EU attempting to continue funding it only enabled Putin to see how far he can push it now. It is a wait and see for me. Not my war. Wouldn't have allowed it in the first place.

 

[Politruk]

I believe oBiden could have prevented the war.

No one in the world but Putin could have done that.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I think you should go to Ukraine now. Go. Take all your tariff income and whatever you think you will gain by boycott with you! Take obiden and hussein with you too. Probably be helpful to patch up whatever is wrong between the mookie and hussein too. I bet that big ol wookie could do some damage in combat!

Awww is some one upset.?

I am sorry to say I do believe when obiden said "don't" he did start WW3.

Scared? To chickenshit to do anything about it? That what you lack, balls to stand up for what is right. You're just a selfish littile prick, who only cares about himself.

Zelensky refusing assistance

Now you're ignorance of reality come storming up. Where did Zelenskyy refuse assistance. Go get that evidence, and learn how to spell the name correctly. Show somerespect at least for the man, his people are getting shelled daily by Russia for fuck sake.

and the EU attempting to continue funding it only enabled Putin to see how far he can push it now.

Thanks for supporting autocracy, but hey you voted for Trump....

It is a wait and see for me. Not my war. Wouldn't have allowed it in the first place.

Yah I've already pointed out your cowardice.

 

[ChloeTzang]

France is apparently building more nuclear weapons now.... Macron has really stepped up here.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

France is apparently building more nuclear weapons now.... Macron has really stepped up here.

View attachment 2523437

Trump has started a new Nuclear arms race.The doomsday clock has moved to 89 seconds to midnight. The closest it's ever been.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Trump administration apologizes for being incompetent jackasses.

Trump administration apologizes for telling Ukrainian refugees to leave US

Donald Trump’s presidential administration has acknowledged and apologized after it says it accidentally informed some Ukrainian refugees fleeing their country’s invasion by Russia that they needed to leave the US because their legal status was being revoked.

About 240,000 Ukrainians have been settled in the US as part of the Uniting for Ukraine – or U4U – program launched during Joe Biden’s presidency. But according to CBS News, some resettled Ukrainians received emails this week telling them that the US Department of Homeland Security would be terminating their legal protections.

“DHS is now exercising its discretion to terminate your parole,” read the notice dated 3 April, referring to the temporary legal status (TPS) granted to Ukrainians after Russia invaded its neighbouring state. “Unless it expires sooner, your parole will terminate 7 days from the date of this notice.”

If recipients failed to leave the US, the message warned, they would “be subject to potential law enforcement actions that will result in your removal from the United States” and encouraged the recipients to sign up for self-deportation.

 

[ChloeTzang]

The KISS rule applies. The Trump Administration are scum.

 

[ChloeTzang]

It seems I am not the only ex-Republican that thinks this way.

 

[ChloeTzang]